Better Call Saul

[trent]

I think i finally nailed down my problem with season six and the finale. I feel like the actual events and emotional beats are great in a vacuum but the season suffered from narrative decompression

For those unfamiliar its a comic term. A regular comic like spiderman versus the werewolf will be one issue but a decompressed comic would do three issues of that one storyline. Seasons six to me felt like they decompressed plot points to fit the thirteen episode order but didnt decompress the emotion

What i mean is each event takes like three episodes to happen but the emotional focus is never on the character affected until the final episode of that plot point. Take nacho for example, the arc of his attempts to evade the salamancas leading to his death are three episodes long but hes never given emotional focus until the final. They couldve done his death in episode two but also put emotional focus on his death for both of those episodes and let us feel the impact of it

Ironically cutting it back down to ten episodes would given them more time to flesh stuff out. I think episodes 7-9 are fine as they are but 4-6 couldve been the same as well as the final arc. If instead we got the events of Nippy up to Waterworks in one episode and then have Gene get caught by the end, we could have had an extra ten to 20 minutes to focus on Saul’s contemplation of what path he should go on and itd feel powerful and earned when he does make that choice

A great example of narrative compression but emotional decompression was in season 4/5. Lalo investigating the lab and Michael having to kill Werner is one, maybe two episodes but it affects every character for the next half a season emotionally. If this was season six itd take three episodes for Lalo to kill that guy and for Werner to die but it’d still only be one episode of Werner’s death being given any sort of emotional introspection with him and Mike

AMC have form with having stuff drag on forever.

The Walking Dead fell to shit after a couple of seasons because the plot was dragged out over a shit ton of episodes every season.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I can't wait until the spin-off where Skinny Pete & Bagder hire Kim to legally adopt the younger Pinkman brother after his parents throw him out of the house when they find him creating edible recipes on his iPad. Flynn will be working as a paralegal.

Either that, or a 9 season series on Clovis' tow truck company called 'Engine Failure'

 

[TheHarbinger]

People are saying Jeff’s ending was ambiguous like Huel’s but I completely disagree. Marion would be able to bail him out easy with the reward money

Jeff is getting life in jail. Three strikes laws will apply because of his priors. He stole from the mall. He stole from various homes. He was part of drugging people. He drugged a cancer patient. He harbored Saul Goodman a known FBI fugitive which is likely his biggest offense. No prosecutor on earth would give him anything less than life in jail.

Skinny Pete and Badger also probably would get jail sentences in El Camino. They deleted the scene where Skinny Pete gets arrested because they wanted the movie to be a happy escape thriller for Jesse. Not one where his friends get years in jail so that he is not captured. The show leaves this stuff out so that fans can delude themselves into rooting for the main characters.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Jeff is getting life in jail. Three strikes laws will apply because of his priors. He stole from the mall. He stole from various homes. He was part of drugging people. He drugged a cancer patient. He harbored Saul Goodman a known FBI fugitive which is likely his biggest offense. No prosecutor on earth would give him anything less than life in jail.

Skinny Pete and Badger also probably would get jail sentences in El Camino. They deleted the scene where Skinny Pete gets arrested because they wanted the movie to be a happy escape thriller for Jesse. Not one where his friends get years in jail so that he is not captured. The show leaves this stuff out so that fans can delude themselves into rooting for the main characters.

Jesus Christ you really are the fun police

 

[IceCreamForCrow]

Just realized Jimmy got the exact same ending as Avon Barksdale from The Wire.

Universal respect and protection from the prisoners. And they probably all go to him for advice. He probably ends up running the prison to some extent like Avon.

King stays the king

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Just realized Jimmy got the exact same ending as Avon Barksdale from The Wire.

Universal respect and protection from the prisoners. And they probably all go to him for advice. He probably ends up running the prison to some extent like Avon.

King stays the king

Fring and Heisenberg will be forgotten within a year, but in the criminal world Saul Goodman will live on.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

Fring and Heisenberg will be forgotten within a year, but in the criminal world Saul Goodman will live on.

Lol absolutely no way, if Heisenberg was a real person he would be a fucking legend. The amount of podcasts that would be dedicated to discussing his life, the movies inspired by him, the straight up biopic.

The American Escobar. The biggest drug dealer in the world. Chemist gone wild. Died in a shootout with Nazis, in an attempt to rescue his old partner.

100 years from now we'd know the name Heisenberg the same way we know the name Billy the Kid.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

Lol absolutely no way, if Heisenberg was a real person he would be a fucking legend. The amount of podcasts that would be dedicated to discussing his life, the movies inspired by him, the straight up biopic.

The American Escobar. The biggest drug dealer in the world. Chemist gone wild. Died in a shootout with Nazis, in an attempt to rescue his old partner.

100 years from now we'd know the name Heisenberg the same way we know the name Billy the Kid.

I guess I needed to put in a "Bravo Vince" to really get the joke across.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Same. I have loved this universe. The layered storytelling, directing, cinematography, and character studies have been stellar and unsurpassable. The finest the small screen will ever see, and I'm done. It needs to be done.

Part of my annoyance at the ending is, that it left no room for the viewer to be a participant in it in the way BB did with Jesse's fate. Then El Camino happened and robbed people of the ending they created for him. I fucking hated El Camino and that it even exists, and no one needs El Kimino. I would like to imagine her fate for myself, thx.

Everyone needs to walk away and allow this to age into the TV equivalent of classic literature that you revisit and revere throughout your life and generations hence discover and come to love for themselves and have vibrant discussions about.

Let it go.

Honestly I enjoyed El Camino for what it was. It dialed up the Neo-Western to 11. Jesse went thru a grand adventure and in a big way it really made me like the character again after he truly fucked it up for everyone during his "He can't keep getting away with this!!!" faggotry. It reminded me of Django Unchained. Was it necessary, no of course not. But it was nice to see the character get his definitive ending. Jesse is the only character who gets a second chance at life.

But anyway how I would sum up Breaking Bad-BCS is that it was a soap opera tragedy of amazing characters doing insanely irrational things. Are there people like Walter White, Mike E (I'm not gonna try spelling that last name), Gus, and Chuck? Why I truly believe there are indeed such people who have overlapping character traits, I've watched and read many true crime stories. But to imagine that there would be an even more extended cast of individuals would destroy my suspension of disbelief. And Breaking Bad's most iconic moments already straddled the line of being too absurd to imagine it's remotely possible.

There can only be one Walter White, "Mr. Chips turns into Scarface." There can only be one Mike, an old operator who gives Agent 47/Snake a run for their money. There can only be one Gus, a shrewd businessman & cold blooded killer who runs a cartel with precision (barring Lalo making him look like a dope).

This isn't like say Star Trek, Captain Kirk was always one captain and the show's lore was there could be damn well endless captains having fun adventures.

We got a universe that had 11 seasons. Was it perfect? No. But Vince Gilligan and the team with him created a fun emotional captivating drama. And it easily deserves a spot on the pantheon of great shows.

Sorry for the wall of text but with the Keffals drama I love the thought of Canadians mountees reading my autism on the government's dime so I'm not editing this post down. Just writing this made me all the more appreciate BCS's finale and how it really wraps the whole thing up beautifully. Saul Goodman, the most morally bankrupt character besides Gus & Walt manned up and took the punishment he deserved. He's the only one that does so. It was a true and honest subversion of expectations. And I think the ending will with time be remembered highly. It wasn't the action gravitas of "Felina" and it's how the show should end.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I'm watching the S02E08 "Better Call Saul" and... it's ridiculous how much more of an amateur Jimmy is. His commercials are really shittier, he's sloppy at his job, they really completely re-created a completely different Jimmy for BCS to the point where it's jarring when you watch Jimmy again. Especially keeping that finale in mind.

I guess I needed to put in a "Bravo Vince" to really get the joke across.

It's not a joke when that's literally how the show ended, Better Call Saul being a literal chant and him being a celebrity in prison...

 

[TheHarbinger]

Just realized Jimmy got the exact same ending as Avon Barksdale from The Wire.

Universal respect and protection from the prisoners. And they probably all go to him for advice. He probably ends up running the prison to some extent like Avon.

King stays the king

Jimmy is in an ADX Supermax. 23 hours a day full isolation indoors. They do not cook their meals. They do not speak to other prisoners. They get one hour of yard time in isolation as well. They do not make their own bread. They do not chant "Better Call Saul" on the bus. Prisoners are forbidden from all contact for their first three years no matter what. Jimmy would not be allowed near another prisoner for three straight years. Let alone running a bakery and meeting with his ex-wife.

The ADS on BCS exists only in a total fantasy world typical of the BB universe. Jimmy fights the FBI over being sent to "Alcatraz" like it is some nightmare. Fast forward and he is literally free to cook and meet with people and wander the yard unsupervised while people play basketball. Either they filmed an ending where Jimmy went to Club Fed prison instead of the ADX. Or they just didn't care about details or accuracy and knew the fans would masturbate over any ending. The ending must have been chosen at the last possible moment or something because the shots of him cooking at ADX make zero sense.

Jimmy would not be running anything in ADX. You literally cannot run your own water or shower. They are on a restricted timer that you do not control. The ending of the show was unrealistic in basically every aspect. How the FBI would negotiate with someone like Saul. How Saul conducted himself in court. And how an ADX prison is operated. It was all so contrived and silly. Like it took place on another planet. Planet Saul in his own mind.

Fring and Heisenberg will be forgotten within a year, but in the criminal world Saul Goodman will live on.

Fring and Heisenberg would be legendary stories. Saul would known as just another jew lawyer despite the fact that he is Irish. "A fellow potato eater". Heisenberg wiped out entire cartels and gangs.....despite being a high school teacher. He would be the most famous criminal since DB Cooper or OJ Simpson. Imagine if a high school chemistry teacher had blown up Pablo Escobar and taken his cartel from him and then machine gunned down the leadership of the next cartel after that. All while having cancer.

Walt would be a folk hero. People would dress up like Heisenberg for Halloween. He would have GTA games made about him. Movies and documentaries.

 

[cokedemon]

Just realized Jimmy got the exact same ending as Avon Barksdale from The Wire.

Universal respect and protection from the prisoners. And they probably all go to him for advice. He probably ends up running the prison to some extent like Avon.

King stays the king

but avon got 15 years so he's good and have peeps plus made like 100.000s from marlo

 

[CWCissey]

If Jimmy is remembered it'll probably be as an Andy DuFresne figure more than anything.

Heisenberg would be remembered as a suburban Tony Montana and the New Mexico tourist board would begrudgingly have to incorporate his lore into their campaigns.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Honestly I enjoyed El Camino for what it was. It dialed up the Neo-Western to 11. Jesse went thru a grand adventure and in a big way it really made me like the character again after he truly fucked it up for everyone during his "He can't keep getting away with this!!!" faggotry. It reminded me of Django Unchained. Was it necessary, no of course not. But it was nice to see the character get his definitive ending. Jesse is the only character who gets a second chance at life.

But anyway how I would sum up Breaking Bad-BCS is that it was a soap opera tragedy of amazing characters doing insanely irrational things. Are there people like Walter White, Mike E (I'm not gonna try spelling that last name), Gus, and Chuck? Why I truly believe there are indeed such people who have overlapping character traits, I've watched and read many true crime stories. But to imagine that there would be an even more extended cast of individuals would destroy my suspension of disbelief. And Breaking Bad's most iconic moments already straddled the line of being too absurd to imagine it's remotely possible.

There can only be one Walter White, "Mr. Chips turns into Scarface." There can only be one Mike, an old operator who gives Agent 47/Snake a run for their money. There can only be one Gus, a shrewd businessman & cold blooded killer who runs a cartel with precision (barring Lalo making him look like a dope).

This isn't like say Star Trek, Captain Kirk was always one captain and the show's lore was there could be damn well endless captains having fun adventures.

We got a universe that had 11 seasons. Was it perfect? No. But Vince Gilligan and the team with him created a fun emotional captivating drama. And it easily deserves a spot on the pantheon of great shows.

Sorry for the wall of text but with the Keffals drama I love the thought of Canadians mountees reading my autism on the government's dime so I'm not editing this post down. Just writing this made me all the more appreciate BCS's finale and how it really wraps the whole thing up beautifully. Saul Goodman, the most morally bankrupt character besides Gus & Walt manned up and took the punishment he deserved. He's the only one that does so. It was a true and honest subversion of expectations. And I think the ending will with time be remembered highly. It wasn't the action gravitas of "Felina" and it's how the show should end.

The one thing that makes me like Saul Gone a lot more is in this age of complete cynicism we had a show legitimately end with “people can change”. Look at fucking Bojack Horseman, which i saw a youtube comment compare the end of episode eleven to. That ending is from what i gather a super cynical hurr durr youll always be scum kind of thing but instead BCS doesnt do that. So like smiling friends despite its flaws it delivered a refreshing note to end on

Jimmy is in an ADX Supermax. 23 hours a day full isolation indoors. They do not cook their meals. They do not speak to other prisoners. They get one hour of yard time in isolation as well. They do not make their own bread. They do not chant "Better Call Saul" on the bus. Prisoners are forbidden from all contact for their first three years no matter what. Jimmy would not be allowed near another prisoner for three straight years. Let alone running a bakery and meeting with his ex-wife.

The ADS on BCS exists only in a total fantasy world typical of the BB universe. Jimmy fights the FBI over being sent to "Alcatraz" like it is some nightmare. Fast forward and he is literally free to cook and meet with people and wander the yard unsupervised while people play basketball. Either they filmed an ending where Jimmy went to Club Fed prison instead of the ADX. Or they just didn't care about details or accuracy and knew the fans would masturbate over any ending. The ending must have been chosen at the last possible moment or something because the shots of him cooking at ADX make zero sense.

Jimmy would not be running anything in ADX. You literally cannot run your own water or shower. They are on a restricted timer that you do not control. The ending of the show was unrealistic in basically every aspect. How the FBI would negotiate with someone like Saul. How Saul conducted himself in court. And how an ADX prison is operated. It was all so contrived and silly. Like it took place on another planet. Planet Saul in his own mind.

Fring and Heisenberg would be legendary stories. Saul would known as just another jew lawyer despite the fact that he is Irish. "A fellow potato eater". Heisenberg wiped out entire cartels and gangs.....despite being a high school teacher. He would be the most famous criminal since DB Cooper or OJ Simpson. Imagine if a high school chemistry teacher had blown up Pablo Escobar and taken his cartel from him and then machine gunned down the leadership of the next cartel after that. All while having cancer.

Walt would be a folk hero. People would dress up like Heisenberg for Halloween. He would have GTA games made about him. Movies and documentaries.

youre telling me a work of fiction isnt realistic? I’d love to see you review like crime and punishment or misery or to kill a mockingbird or tom sawyer or moby dick and just point out it couldnt happen irl. Like duh we already knew that. This is a show where a 30 to 40 year old man looks like hes pushing 60 then gains a bunch of weight in like 2008 and looks way younger very briefly

 

[Magikoopa]

Marie was one of the more evil characters in the BB/BCS universe who never got punished. (Skyler was a hell of a lot less evil, but she was also more evil than some of the people who actually did get punished. And I would even agree that she actually got punished compared to most people in this show.)

I think at this point, I hate Marie more than I ever hated Skyler.

how the fuck, in a series with Gus, Walt, Saul, Kim, every single Salamanca, Eladio, etc. can you call Marie evil? Jesus christ. She was annoying, unlikeable even, but in a completely down to earth, reasonable, flawed-human-being way. she was an irritating aunt, albeit a well-meaning one. there is actual evil in this series, and Marie is as far removed from it as Howard Hamlin was from the cartel.

 

[TheHarbinger]

how the fuck, in a series with Gus, Walt, Saul, Kim, every single Salamanca, Eladio, etc. can you call Marie evil?

Because Walt and Kim and Saul and Gus are often portrayed sympathetically. And are given moments for the fans to root for them. Like Gus shooting Lalo. or Walt's Nazi rampage. Marie is just annoying. So the fans act like Walter does. And root for meth and violence. But want to torch someone's car for talking on the phone too loudly.

Fans root for things like Walt torching cars. Saul scamming random people. Because it is presented in a fun way. With montages and goofy music. Saul scamming people is shown to the audience in a fun way. Marie stealing and lying is just shown in a depressing and miserable way. So people not only hate her character but they hate all of her scenes because they are unbearable to watch. Walt is putting kids in oil drums and teaming up with serial murderers but so much of his screen time is him 'winning' that fans root for him.

People like Marie and Skyler have no scene where you can root for them. Walt is written in a way where the fans are supposed to be rooting for him to save Jesse and get his family that sweet laundered cartel money through Gray Matter. While Marie is written to be nothing more than a mope in a childless marriage. So when her life implodes the audience is not invested in her and does not care.

This is why Vince Gillian was quoted as saying something like "everyone in the Breaking Bad universe gets what they deserve". Completely forgetting about people like Hank, Marie, Andrea, Brock, Drew Sharp, and so on. Because those characters are nobodies compared to Walt or Saul or Kim.

 

[AnOminous]

Either that, or a 9 season series on Clovis' tow truck company called 'Engine Failure'

With Old Joe from the junkyard as the Mike Ehrmantraut.

I don't see how you could possibly walk away with that interpretation. Ever since Hank killed Tuco and got PTSD she was trying to support him. Perhaps she didn't really know how to(but who does?) but she tried constantly.

That's really unfair. She stuck by him when he nearly got killed and nursed him back to health even while he was acting like a complete asshole, even if it was just because of the pain.

 

[UnKillFill]

how the fuck, in a series with Gus, Walt, Saul, Kim, every single Salamanca, Eladio, etc. can you call Marie evil? Jesus christ. She was annoying, unlikeable even, but in a completely down to earth, reasonable, flawed-human-being way. she was an irritating aunt, albeit a well-meaning one. there is actual evil in this series, and Marie is as far removed from it as Howard Hamlin was from the cartel.

Most of those characters you mentioned weren't given much of a choice over their lot in life. (and ALL of them got comeuppance of at least some sort).
All Marie got was her husband dying, and it isn't like she actually gave a shit about him as we've already established.

The only character I can think of offhand more evil than Marie, was Jane. And at least Jane got what was coming to her.

 

[ln18]

I'm at 501. Really hard to buy Mike not killing Walt in retaliation for Gus, consequences-be-damned, after BCS and knowing how deep they go.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I'm at 501. Really hard to buy Mike not killing Walt in retaliation for Gus, consequences-be-damned, after BCS and knowing how deep they go.

After Walt blows up Gus. Mike not only stays loyal to Walt but gets deeper into his ragtag meth empire. Exposing himself to retaliation from Gus's henchmen or even from rival meth gangs that want Heisenberg out. Mike also remains close to Walt, a complete maniac, who has killed many of Gus's men including Gus himself. Mike is also being followed by police and the DEA over his work at Los Pollos Hermanos and still engages with Walt and Lydia in person and over the phone. Mike knows that both Walt and Jesse are capable of killing with their owns hands. And that Walt is particularly devious and ruthless and is an egomaniac that can snap like a twig.

Mike also does not secure his money for his granddaughter. But lets it sit in an account that Fring somehow has personal access to and was not using shell companies or launderers to handle transactions for. And Mike keeps all of his money in one single account. Should it get compromised he loses everything he has been working for since his son's death. This account is also stupidly labeled under his granddaughter's name instantly tracing it to him. This is after we see Mike robbing the Kettleman's of their money because they kept it all on one place. And Mike warning tons of others "not to keep their eggs in one basket" about various aspects of organized crime. Yet he does it in the worst way possible.

This is all halfheartedly explained that Mike has to take care of "his guys". And that Walt's operation must continue to ensure that those arrested in the Fring cartel have their money restored to them. So that no one rats anyone out or turns state's evidence. Mike also kills people involved in Fring's operation to maintain security. All the while hoping he can keep his money for his granddaughter.

But in reality Mike should have withdrawn all of his cash without telling anyone. Fled using the vacuum service or simply fled to another country without extradition. Then sent his daughter-in-law some cash every once in a while. Mike makes some of the worst moves on the show. I don't know why Gus ever kept him around. He fails to keep the meth lab secure and allows one of the workers to escape greatly exposing the operation to Gus's rivals. He allows Lalo to literally point blank shoot Gus who survives due to plot armor when Lalo could have just shot Gus in the head and finished him at any time. Mike fails to keep Gale alive as well. Mike drinks heavily and fights people in the streets. And so on. He loses all of his caution.

I am not even sure Mike was qualified to work as a security guard for Los Pollos Hermanos. Let alone be the head of cartel security for someone like Fring. Lydia should have kept him on loss prevention in the warehouse forever. I always laugh when Gus refuses to hire the junkie Jesse. A genius chemist and one of two people who can make pure meth. Yet hires alcoholic suicidal Mike. A corrupt cop who worked as a parking attendant to run his entire security operation.

When Walt shoots Mike to death I just laugh every single time. Mike was a dolt. Incompetent. Pretty much everyone around him dies then himself. And his track record in BCS is basically just as bad as BB.