Better Call Saul

[TheHarbinger]

The ending was completely retarded and makes zero fucking sense.

It makes no sense within the context of the show. But when you know the motivations of Vince Gilligan it makes sense. The Shield has an ending where basically all of the protagonists lose. They are dead, in jail, or are rats and snitches with no friends. Sopranos ends with pretty much everyone in the Soprano family dead and Tony feeling the noose tighten around him to the point where a simple diner meal with his family is like a life or death terrifying situation. Those endings are dark but you can still rewatch those shows. Those endings arguable enhance rewatches.

Breaking Bad and BCS have endings that whitewash the lives of the protagonists so that subsequent viewings are more palatable for the audience. Basically the opposite of Game of Thrones where everything turns out so badly that no one is motivated to watch again. So BB uses its last season to set up Walt against Nazis and White Supremacists and have Jesse get rescued in the end. BCS uses its last season to have Jimmy take the blame for the entire criminality of the cartels and rescue Kim. Now Jimmy is just a "gee golly gosh aww shucks" good natured man. The lawyer with deep down inside a heart of gold that you can root for on the next viewing because you know that in the end he is a good person. Unlike Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey that are monsters from start to finish.

So now you can rewatch BB and BCS and not feel bad rooting for the main characters. Howard? Hank? Chuck? Gomez? Just gotta forget them. The real main characters of the show are like heroes. Walt is killing Nazis. Getting his family money. Rescuing Jesse. Saul is eating the entire criminal history of the Fring and Heisenberg cartels. And atoning for his brother. And rescuing Kim. Jimmy is literally given the most reddit tier moment on the entire show in the end where the prisoners chant "Better Call Saul" over and over like he is coming through the gates of Valhalla.

Jimmy went 8 years not feeling a single ounce of guilt.

Not only did he not feel guilt but he goes out of his way to pursue more criminals to represent. Launders money. And is literally advocating that Badger be murdered when we first meet him in BB. He is deep into the criminal world at that point with no remorse. And BCS refines that even further by having him be a divorced loser sociopath that is basically black pilled on romance. He has nothing to live for outside of being Saul. Hence the obsessive rewatches of his lawyer commercials.

You can't do 5.9 seasons of remoseless crime, spend the intro of every season and every episode outlining how much the main character loves crime and misses the good old days, then have the finale be "I confess to everything I'm so sorry and so guilty lock me up and throw away the key"

You can if your name is Vince Gillian and you have an army of sycophants to suck you off endlessly. You can end your show like Lost or Game of Thrones and the fans will still defend your honor to the death. The only difference between GRRM and Vince Gillian is that one has fans who recognize bad writing and other knows how to finish a story on time.

The ending just does not fit the show or the characters.

It fits the fandom which was the point. The entire point was fan service for morons who are too juvenile to watch programs for adults. They need their faggy Walt hero moments like him blowing up cars or shooting machine guns or staring into the camera like a badass (in the body of a 5'6" kike) and saying douche chilling lines like "I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS".

Let's not suck vince's cock *too* hard, both BB and BCS are great series but the endings get more retarded the more you think about them. I outlined BCS above, but breaking bad isnt' far behind.

Great shows? Are you really going to watch BCS again? Knowing what the ending is? And still call it great? BCS and arguably BB should be seen alongside something like Game of Thrones. The more you rewatch BCS the worse it will get in the long run.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Jimmy is literally given the most reddit tier moment on the entire show in the end where the prisoners chant "Better Call Saul" over and over like he is coming through the gates of Valhalla.

holy shit everyone in the bus stood up and started clapping

Great shows? Are you really going to watch BCS again? Knowing what the ending is? And still call it great? BCS and arguably BB should be seen alongside something like Game of Thrones. The more you rewatch BCS the worse it will get in the long run.

You get what I mean. The ending ruins the series but everything leading up to the last 4 episodes was fantastic television.

I'll just ignore them on rewatch same way I ignore felina when rewatching breaking bad. Just because felina sucked shit doesn't mean ozymandias wasn't lit, same with BCS.

 

[Ishtar]

I'm almost through season six. Just got to Howard's memorial. What I dislike more than the defending scumbags and shameless partaking of cartel operations is Kim and Jimmy ruining Howard's life literally for the lulz. Like sure he was a bit of a douche, and a corporate phony(even then not really-he just fits the stereotype) but he was never malicious like they were-in fact he tries to make things right, in season 4 but by then Jimmy and kim are both set on their path of fucking him over and wanton criminality just because...

I get that Lalo, the rest of the Salamanca clan, Gus and his army of black coated henchmen are all bad guys-their actions aren't as repulsive as screwing over a (genuinely) honest man out of spite and amusement. At the very least, they do it for money and for honor and other gangster motives, not because they're scamming totally amoral degenerates like Saul and Kim are. They at least pretend to care about "justice"-even if its just a gang shootout and bullet to the skull. Kimmy and Jimmy are just bottom feeders.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I'm almost through season six. Just got to Howard's memorial. What I dislike more than the defending scumbags and shameless partaking of cartel operations is Kim and Jimmy ruining Howard's life literally for the lulz. Like sure he was a bit of a douche, and a corporate phony(even then not really-he just fits the stereotype) but he was never malicious like they were-in fact he tries to make things right, in season 4 but by then Jimmy and kim are both set on their path of fucking him over and wanton criminality just because...

This is something that the show gets across poorly. Jimmy and Kim have every reason to hate Howard. Obviously drugging him and faking his suicide is another level. But they definitely have reasons to hate him.

Howard basically tried to ruin Jimmy's career because Chuck told him to. Howard tries to end Jimmy's law career because it would mean appeasing Chuck. Howard also tries to steal Mesa Verde from Kim behind her back because Chuck wanted to hurt Jimmy. Howard also lies to Jimmy about why he cannot work at HHM. And lies to Kim as well about why Howard seemingly hates Jimmy. Howard also punishes Kim by putting her in the basement because Chuck tells him to.

Jimmy and Kim realize this and eventually turn their ire towards Chuck resulting in him killing himself. And Howard rather than protecting Chuck decides to protect the firm and fires Chuck resulting in his meltdown. They later still hate Howard and decide that they want more revenge and use Sandpiper money as an excuse to mess with Howard. But in reality they are getting vengeance for personal reasons for Howard lying to them for years. They want to humiliate Howard like he humiliated them.

I get that Lalo, the rest of the Salamanca clan, Gus and his army of black coated henchmen are all bad guys-their actions aren't as repulsive as screwing over a (genuinely) honest man out of spite and amusement.

Lalo flat out kills a civilian because the guy would not turn over information on Werner. Gus has a cartel that kills children. And they both deal drugs that poison hundreds of thousands. They are not seen as repulsive because BB never covers drug addiction as shows like The Wire or Sopranos did. The Wire shows you drug addicts and street users. Sopranos had tons of victims of Tony who gambled away their lives or lost everything. BB basically shields the viewer from the insane drug culture that the whole "legalize drugs" hippies think is normal.

The closest we get to people dying over drugs are Jane and Jesse. And neither of them are using meth. You get glimpses of meth addicts and drug users in BB like the woman who drops the ATM on her boyfriend's head. But never anything in depth or introspective.

At the very least, they do it for money and for honor and other gangster motives, not because they're scamming totally amoral degenerates like Saul and Kim are. They at least pretend to care about "justice"-even if its just a gang shootout and bullet to the skull. Kimmy and Jimmy are just bottom feeders.

Jimmy is more than a bottom feeder. He is laundering and conspiring with murderers. Jimmy basically works with Walt to set up hits. He hides Jesse from the cartel at the laser tag center. He is fully in on drug cartel life as more than just an ambulance chaser. He frees Lalo from jail knowing Lalo is a murderer. And continues to work for the cartels despite almost dying in a shootout. Kim is a bottom feeder for sure who leeches off of Saul for thrills. But Saul is basically a major player for Walt by the end of the show and was on his way to being a major player for Lalo had Gus not won.

 

[Ishtar]

This is something that the show gets across poorly. Jimmy and Kim have every reason to hate Howard. Obviously drugging him and faking his suicide is another level. But they definitely have reasons to hate him.

Howard basically tried to ruin Jimmy's career because Chuck told him to. Howard tries to end Jimmy's law career because it would mean appeasing Chuck. Howard also tries to steal Mesa Verde from Kim behind her back because Chuck wanted to hurt Jimmy. Howard also lies to Jimmy about why he cannot work at HHM. And lies to Kim as well about why Howard seemingly hates Jimmy. Howard also punishes Kim by putting her in the basement because Chuck tells him to.

Jimmy and Kim realize this and eventually turn their ire towards Chuck resulting in him killing himself. And Howard rather than protecting Chuck decides to protect the firm and fires Chuck resulting in his meltdown. They later still hate Howard and decide that they want more revenge and use Sandpiper money as an excuse to mess with Howard. But in reality they are getting vengeance for personal reasons for Howard lying to them for years. They want to humiliate Howard like he humiliated them.

I get that, its just really over the top, and ridiculous. And and, Howard does try to apologize and build bridges when Chuck dies, maybe too little too late, but at the end of the day, most of the stuff you mention he did because Chuck told him too. Maybe that's cowardly or indicative of moral bankruptcy on his part, but he does try to make amends when Chuck is no longer hanging over him. They could have just waited for the Sandpiper money to come in, built their own practices, and left HHM to downsize. But I do get they have reason to dislike him.

Lalo flat out kills a civilian because the guy would not turn over information on Werner. Gus has a cartel that kills children. And they both deal drugs that poison hundreds of thousands. They are not seen as repulsive because BB never covers drug addiction as shows like The Wire or Sopranos did. The Wire shows you drug addicts and street users. Sopranos had tons of victims of Tony who gambled away their lives or lost everything. BB basically shields the viewer from the insane drug culture that the whole "legalize drugs" hippies think is normal.

Gus ordering the child's death is never explicitly confirmed. Using them for hits on rival dealers is something else. We do see that drug den when Jesse is depressed over Jane's death-and loads of drug addicts in a state of contemptible squalor, with Walter seeing the clear results of his business. Albeit you are right, the show explicitly does not focus on what happens when people snort too much baby blue. Walt telling Jesse "I never want to see or interact with your(my) customers".

Jimmy is more than a bottom feeder. He is laundering and conspiring with murderers. Jimmy basically works with Walt to set up hits. He hides Jesse from the cartel at the laser tag center. He is fully in on drug cartel life as more than just an ambulance chaser. He frees Lalo from jail knowing Lalo is a murderer. And continues to work for the cartels despite almost dying in a shootout. Kim is a bottom feeder for sure who leeches off of Saul for thrills. But Saul is basically a major player for Walt by the end of the show and was on his way to being a major player for Lalo had Gus not won.

I honestly wonder how valuable Jimmy would have been to the Cartel in the long run, as Lalo notes-he had a big mouth, and would have said something incriminating sooner or later. By the time Jimmy fobbed off killing Gus to Kim, a part of me unironically hoped she'd get shot.

 

[nym]

^just because it's never made clear who caused what doesn't make the momentum of the train of events so fucking clear. Jesse is always the infant child [learning and growing] compared to Walt's loudly shouting his YAWP!!!!
I really dunno wtf y'all saw in the show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omveFR-2hmg [walt whitman]

There are a few unique souls whose WW's semblance lends himself to them: Again, Walt Whitman, also Edward Abbey, etc. And
god knows.... God knows
Jesse isn't the one who's guilty:
he's the only real father figure in the whole show.

(I don't think this show is genius, but it's definitely okay.)

 

[Seventh Star]

Rewatching BCS again because there's nothing else on TV. I wish the feel good early seasons of every good show would stay for a while longer sometimes.

their actions aren't as repulsive as screwing over a (genuinely) honest man out of spite and amusement. At the very least, they do it for money and for honor and other gangster motives, not because they're scamming totally amoral degenerates like Saul and Kim are.

Lol, no comment required.

 

[Ishtar]

Finally finished the series. Saul deciding to blow up a sweetheart deal was done for no other reason than to show Kim he wasn't Saul Goodman. I wouldn't have an issue with the "fall on my sword for the lady" motive if it had been remotely hinted at or foreshadowed prior, even within the episode. Saul is concerned yes for her wellbeing with the cheryl suit, but the implication he cares enough to throw his life away simply so she can not think...badly of him is just not present.

If you want to view the finale as the culmination of Breaking Bad as a whole(which the episode does sort aim for) you can argue Saul is taking on Jesse and Walt's crimes as well-as the last man alive, and not fled to the winds-Saul bears the penalty, but that's not remotely his motivation. Admitting that he was the key piece in the Heisenberg empire does lend to it.

There is no indication of a broader conscience here, or that Saul even feels bad for Marie's loss, its just for Kim. Again I wouldn't have an issue with this "I find atonement in the eyes of the woman who once loved me, and that's better than continuing as I was"-romantic motive if it were remotely foreshadowed.

It just isn't.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

BB basically shields the viewer from the insane drug culture that the whole "legalize drugs" hippies think is normal.

The closest we get to people dying over drugs are Jane and Jesse. And neither of them are using meth. You get glimpses of meth addicts and drug users in BB like the woman who drops the ATM on her boyfriend's head. But never anything in depth or introspective.

In hindsight breaking bad really did need more scenes exposing us to the damage walt and jesse were actually causing to society.

I already hated the final season for making the moral dilema "walt vs nazis" so the audience can soyface and go "See? Walt isn't that bad he killed nazis at least " to try and portray in a positive light a man who has no problem poisoning children, killing people with chemicals, running them over with cars, bombing retirement homes, melting corpses in acid and distributing industrial quantities of extremely potent life ruining drugs because of his ego.

Its like if the last scene in lord of the rings was sauron rescuing a kitten from a tree before he disintegrates when the ring is dropped in the volcano.

I think its one of the big failures of breaking bad that it fails to adequately portray walter as a villain and in fact goes out of its way to juxtapose him with nazis just to make him look good by comparison.

 

[Ishtar]

The most memorable "damage" scene was the drug den/crackhouse Jesse was at after Jane's death. Maybe it wasn't meth(it looked like most were heroin addicts) but its the closest we see in the show to the real costs of the drug business.

Anyways-a few thoughts; Gus Fring's henchmen look cool. The black overcoats and all, I dunno just looks badass.

The scene where Kim is at Gus's door and is pulling out the gun does actually have great tension.

BCS seems to confuse a normal high security prison with something like ADX Florence. ADX is for the worst of the worst, and you do not get a cooking job or even much time for exercise. If they had said any regular high security prison, it would be slightly better.

Saul Goodman being popular or respected by the felon population is...fine. I get it has Reddit overtones, but this is the guy that gets criminals off regardless so him being well liked by the inmate population(as someone who will always represent them) isn't bad. Saul demanding ice cream and a low security prison when making the seven year deal came across as a bit hubristic...dude you're getting off light, why demand more?

Gene Takovic's final scam-basically working with that dude in Omaha to rob people seems almost like he wanted to get caught. Because his life was just so terrible.

The Salamancas' one could say they were idiots and that they should have known Gustavo Fring was not their guy, or you could say Gus was just that smart at fooling them. Apparently's he's an earner(he brings in the dough) so... maybe they just overlooked the suspicious actions he took.

Lalo Salamanca is a good villain for its worth.

 

[AnOminous]

In hindsight breaking bad really did need more scenes exposing us to the damage walt and jesse were actually causing to society.

Really? It needed some social justice bullshit? I thought one of the best parts of it was it stayed away from that kind of thing.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Really? It needed some social justice bullshit? I thought one of the best parts of it was it stayed away from that kind of thing.

How is it "social justice bullshit" to show that meth turns you into a methhead?

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

How is it "social justice bullshit" to show that meth turns you into a methhead?

If you need to be told/shown that meth turns you into a methhead, you might be too retarded to watch Breaking Bad

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

We already have Jesse, Badger, Skinny Pete, Tuco, Jane and the rehab clinic to drive all that home. The reason Walter doesnt ever see a methhead in the show and get a weird pang of guilt is because he doesnt care

 

[UnKillFill]

We already have Jesse, Badger, Skinny Pete, Tuco, Jane and the rehab clinic to drive all that home. The reason Walter doesnt ever see a methhead in the show and get a weird pang of guilt is because he doesnt care

It was pretty funny when he let Jane die though. If anybody in the BB universe deserved to die (aside from Marie or Skyler) Jane did.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

If you need to be told/shown that meth turns you into a methhead, you might be too retarded to watch Breaking Bad

Are people who watch the sopranos retards then?

We already have Jesse, Badger, Skinny Pete, Tuco, Jane and the rehab clinic to drive all that home. The reason Walter doesnt ever see a methhead in the show and get a weird pang of guilt is because he doesnt care

Him seeing methheads and not actively not giving a shit is far superior for his character than him not seeing methheads at all.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Are people who watch the sopranos retards then?

Him seeing methheads and not actively not giving a shit is far superior for his character than him not seeing methheads at all.

If @TheHarbinger is anything to go by, yes

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Are people who watch the sopranos retards then?

There are a lot of them, yeah.

 

[A-Stump]

Vince Gilligan has a problem with female characters. I don't know what the deal is but they're the most insufferable characters in media. Kim goes from one episode to absolutely disapproving to breaking and entering to being perfectly A-OK with driving someone completely fucking insane and fabricating their death. Being flip-floppity seems to be central to their character. Like Chuck might be an absolute cockface and a loon but he's consistent at the very least. Skyler? Kim? Marie? Who the fuck knows, spin a wheel and see where the arrow lands.

 

[TheHarbinger]

It was pretty funny when he let Jane die though. If anybody in the BB universe deserved to die (aside from Marie or Skyler) Jane did.

If Walt had let Jane live....she would have been dead in likely under a week from an overdose. And possibly taken Jesse with her. Or if Walt had not showed up at the literal exact perfect time (a Vince Gillian staple) she would have died anyways. People act like Walt battered down the door to hold a pillow over her face.