Biting the hand that feeds - A brief history of the Kiwi Farms and why A&T is the redheaded stepchild of the site.

[Happy Fish]

>Civil war now posting
>"I go here for sanity"

Can't make it his shit up.

Shit that happened in our election isn't okay, chief.

 

[Covfefe]

I don't know any. Well one, but that site is not in English. Doesn't mean they don't exist but I don't go to a lot of forums. It would actually be nice to have a couple of links. It's the reason null made this thread but no one's posted anything. People just whine about happenings and articles without giving the people who have an interest in knowing what's going on another place where they can know what's going on.

I doubt there's that many. Everything is pretty locked down and micro managed online in current year.

...I'm not sure since you might not be kidding, but my assumption is the sites you listed were a joke.

A&N is mostly full of people who want to meme to each other about how Jews/Trump/trans people/bankers/"the elite" are simultaneously somehow controlling everything yet completely incompetent, how you can't believe anything mainstream media tells you, how basically any fact you hear is a lie meant to mislead you, etc. They have spent the last year mostly talking about how the Three Gorges Dam would explode and destroy China (it didn't), how COVID is a Chinese conspiracy and/or doomsday plague and/or bioweapon and/or myth (all of which weren't true), how Trump was going to win and destroy the libs (he didn't), or how society is becoming unsavably degenerate (kinda true but not like they mean it).

It's low-value content. It's fun sometimes to go in there and shitpost, but the only difference between those boards and the comment sections of virtually any website on the internet is that this site lets you say gamer words without censorship and somehow people think it is vitally important to political discourse to be able to call your opponent your chosen epithet.

The sort of people who need boards like that over the comment sections they can find anywhere else tend to be people who aren't worth catering to because they just want to repeat the same 4chan-esque talking points over and over and inject their weird political obsessions into the rest of the site.

On KF, it was fun for a while but the increased attention to the "non-gossip" boards has diluted the site IMO. If you are really looking for a good site to have valuable political discussion on I don't know how to help you, but KiwiFarms isn't a good place for that anyway. We're just one kinda spicy flavor of low-information high-meme discussion. KF is maybe a little better than places like /pol/ simply because the userbase is a bit less myopic but that's it.

So yes, I was being serious, but the message was that this sort of content isn't very useful or valuable IMO and KiwiFarms dumping it would refocus the site on talking about weird people online - for which KiwiFarms is both absolutely the best place online and a uniquely special group of people/content.

 

[Love Machine]

Shit that happened in our election isn't okay, chief.

You sound like a libtard from 4 years ago.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

Great., now all I can think of is a shitty NIN song.

I hate when mommy and daddy fight.

 

[KingCoelacanth]

You sound like a libtard from 4 years ago.

good
everyone on Trump's side should act and sound like the biggest libtard they can imagine from Dec 05 2016

 

[Nobunaga]

So are we getting rid of beuty parlor next?
That place causes trouble every single week

 

[AutismGeorge999]

If this place does go down, I will say you've done a great service, Null.

 

[mindlessobserver]

You are not obligated to do any of this. Its a rare person able to put up with this level of shit, and I am sure the vast majority of the users here would agree with that sentiment and are grateful for what you do. Its a shame though that places like this inevitably attract "that" kind of person. The mentally unstable narcissistic type who don't give a shit about anything.

 

[KittyGremlin]

Reminder to ignore anyone with anime profiles, because they always have shitty opinions

I second this

 

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

I just want to shitpost, and make fun of trannies, fatties and retards. Why is that so hard?

Because it's all fun and games until it's their shit getting made fun of, then it's no longer fun and the site is ruined.

 

[Shield Breaker]

My suggestion is to have News be non-political outside of tranny shit, etc. Make Happenings where politics can be discussed, but it has to fit into a megathread. Maybe move the Biden MT, and the Trump thread there, along with TDS and TES.

Any discussion of politics outside of the Happenings gets you a temp thread ban. Zero tolerance. Because some of the same people I see bitch about A & H will also use cow threads to discuss the rise of fucking Hitler and WWI (see Movie Bob).

 

[Rich Evans Apologist]

Free speech is not a legal construction, it is a moralist concept, and its meaning is literal. It means speech that is free, unrestrained in any way. The first amendment is not free speech. The US does not have absolute free speech. No country on earth does. People like me who are free speech absolutists believe that things like libel and slander, or even incitement to violence, should not be illegal.

Which is why I do not support those political or legal bodies.


All that said, I'm not gonna sperg out at Joosh for not instigating free speech absolutism any more than I'm gonna sperg out at my senators. I understand their position, it's coherent, and it's sensible. It's just not mine.

So, let's see. On one side, we've got all of the political, legal, and business bodies in the existence of man - oh, and religious ones, too.
On the other side, we've got some narcissistic NEETs that all-too-often draw income purely from SSI/SSD equivalents.

Real motley crew, those free speech absolutists. Invaluable to any truly enlightened, euphoric discourse.
I'm sure you'll get there one day, arguing there should be no recourse for sending a bomb threat to a hospital. There wasn't a bomb, officers, so you got PRANKED.
Oh, wait, advocating and trying to change the world is dumb so that's not the plan, so you're... talking to fill up some bytes? You would be a much less depressing person if you were a poe.

Usually the line is put at saying something that bring provable harm on another person. But once you get into the realm of "hurting feelings is a crime" then basically every sentence is a possible jail sentence if you piss off the wrong people. Though I won't say it's a fair to argue that Defenders of free expression don't die on the hill of fake threats of violence means those threats are not along the lines free speech.

I think the part of the problem is extremism on the other side has grown so much that it's tending to fuel the "reactionary" side of things. The ban on the word "nigger" on the "corporate"/"woke" side of the web only makes it more appealing to use, even if it's for (and, for the most part, has always been) shock value. I think the real problem is people are afraid that by censoring the limits of free speech, Kiwi Farms would be heading in the direction of mainstream sources like Twitter or Facebook letting the left have free reign of discussion years but start questioning the election and getting your posts flagged (or worse), or, at the extreme end, something like ResetERA, where you can banned for even suggesting that women, non-whites, or LGBT people could be wrong about something, and having discussion shut down with made-up reasons like "whataboutism".

I think Null realizes this, and his threats to shut down the site is the "necessary" alternative to having KF get hijacked by tranny mods that will start handing out bans for the most petty of transgressions and harm the site's legacy (much like what happened with SA).

Some countries have speech codes which would get in the way of you saying niggerfaggot by getting the popo on your ass.
But even those countries which have had the most robust and the most pliant free speech provisions, like the US, have never once allowed you to make genuine or seemingly genuine terroristic or violent threats without rebuke.

The limits of free speech, to any body that matters and to any person that matters, have never stretched into allowing overt threats and calls to violence.
If someone banning you from twitter for saying niggerfaggot makes you think "we should be allowed to threaten to shoot up schools," you are retarded, should get a job, and should probably move out of the basement.

Arguing against "hurting feelings = literal violence" is the whole point of arguing in favor of free speech - the two aren't synonymous.
Arguing that calls to literal violence are the same as hurt feelings is just flipping around the equals sign: "literal violence = hurting feelings"
"But they did it first!" is a legal strategy that doesn't work very well.
"Well why are they allowed to get away with it?" Because they haven't eroded the fundamental bedrock, and most of those restrictions are accepted and even desired by people using those platforms and living in those cities. This is why conservatives and liberals are segregating. Yet the proof in the pudding that the bedrock is still intact is this very site - the bedrock never included fedposting.

It really is not hard to grasp that Null is totally fine with the widest interpretation of Free Speech that has ever functionally existed on the planet earth in a meaningful way, and still exists (so long as 230 does) in US jurisdiction. The whole "threatening to shoot up mental wards should be a-ok" side of things hasn't ever been what he's veered towards or wanted to cultivate.

 

[nya001]

While I am 100% pro freeze peach I don't think anyone should tolerate actual violent threats. IMO, Sig never actually contributed to anything and I think we're better off without him. Change my fucking mind, I dare you.

So first what is a "violent threat"? if you say with smile "I'll kill you", this is a non-violent threat of violence. If I throw a brick against your house with a note saying "I will be unhappy with you" this is a violent threat of non-violence.

Second, Null simply decided to comply with a request from the FBI. Lavabit at the time apparently decided to shut down rather than comply.

Imho a request can be denied, but seriously why bother.

I also note the canary warrant (if anyone believes in canary warrants) is ambiguous: "we have not received any court orders" does not mean "we have not received any orders from anyone or any agency". And an order is an order, a request is a request, those are different things.

According to KF's TOS:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which violates any laws."

So why the surprise if some user got banned for threatening someone?

Also BTW the TOS says you have to be "13 and older" to use the website, the footer says "this an adult website, minors must discontinue using this site". So maybe better make it clearer imho.

 

[Eris!]

I'm sure you'll get there one day,

I'm sure we won't, but that doesn't change what I think is right.

Oh, wait, advocating and trying to change the world is dumb so that's not the plan, so you're... talking to fill up some bytes? You would be a much less depressing person if you were a poe.

I'm not allowed to have any opinions that aren't practical. Got it.

 

[Ma_Hooty]

Anyone who makes the excuse of "muh free speech" over a drooling reetards' visceral reaction are also viscerally reacting like drooling retards. You don't threaten people irl, why the fuck would you think it's fine to do it online? Do they not have a life or a sense of responsibility? Are you that bored?
Imo, /pol/ spergs are the same as SJWs who grave-dance on Twitter after someone they despise dies; you're not cool, you're just fucking stupid and we have just as much of a reason to laugh at you because of it.

 

[EryngiumLostHisKeys]

NOTICE TO ALL DEMOCRATS IM ABOUT TO BOMB DNC WITH MY DIRTY DIREHHA ASSHOLE, COME GET ME FBI FAGGOTS. (in minecraft)

 

[A Welsh Cake]

So first what is a "violent threat"? if you say with smile "I'll kill you", this is a non-violent threat of violence. If I throw a brick against your house with a note saying "I will be unhappy with you" this is a violent threat of non-violence.

Second, Null simply decided to comply with a request from the FBI. Lavabit at the time apparently decided to shut down rather than comply.

Imho a request can be denied, but seriously why bother.

I also note the canary warrant (if anyone believes in canary warrants) is ambiguous: "we have not received any court orders" does not mean "we have not received any orders from anyone or any agency". And an order is an order, a request is a request, those are different things.

According to KF's TOS:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which violates any laws."

So why the surprise if some user got banned for threatening someone?

Also BTW the TOS says you have to be "13 and older" to use the website, the footer says "this an adult website, minors must discontinue using this site". So maybe better make it clearer imho.

>Joined 2020
I mean. I don’t wanna be that guy but...

 

[Eggsy]

Politispergs ruin websites the same way troons do.

 

[Happy Fish]

You sound like a libtard from 4 years ago.

I don't think I'm brow beating you on every televised network with shit that never happened, but okay.

 

[Rainbow Frog Army]

I am asking, because I have no idea what's enough to get contacted by FBI. I've always thought, that non-specified threats are not enough, but it seems I was wrong. Where are the boundaries?

Did a quick bit of digging, and @Null feel free to use this to help anybody needing a definition, this comes from Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute:

The Ninth Circuit concluded that a “true threat” is “a statement which, in the entire context and under all the circumstances, a reasonable person would foresee would be interpreted by those to whom the statement is communicated as a serious expression of intent to inflict bodily harm upon that person.” “It is not necessary that the defendant intend to, or be able to carry out his threat; the only intent requirement for a true threat is that the defendant intentionally or knowingly communicate the threat.”

So, basically, there's a significant difference between threatening to blow up the universe with your farts and saying you want to blow someplace up with a bomb.