Horrorcow Bryan Johnson / Don't Die movement - How far would you go to live forever?

[オプセック]

How exactly do clams/lobsters/etc not aging violate the conservation of energy? (Or are humans thermodynamically special in a way that clams are not?) And my examples are all things that have already happened as a result of human effort, and are all violations of the natural status quo. How are they false analogies?

Clams are stagnant pieces of sea floor furniture, lobsters aren't much better...and no, they aren't valid comparative studies on how serotonin affects us either.
You really don't understand what's wrong with your examples, do you?
Decay and transformation are one and the same thing, stopping either is DEATH.
Brian Johnson isn't as philosophically retarded as one might assume at first glance, his movement it just saying: Don't die!
He's ahead of you, actually.

 

[Polyarmory]

Clams are stagnant pieces of furniture.

If this were true, there would be no distinction between a living clam and a dead clam. Also, lobsters do stuff.

You really don't understand what's wrong with your examples, do you?

Do you? Can you actually engage with what I'm saying instead of just being snarky?

Decay and transformation are one and the same thing, stopping either is DEATH.

Sure. A person who lived for a thousand years would be in a constant state of transformation throughout their life, just as everyone who lives is now. Even when a person is stagnant from a social/macro perspective, there's constant turnover of cells within them, and the inside of their body is in constant motion and exertion. When this stops, the person is dead.

ETA: Though to say that decay and transformation are the same thing would mean that children growing into adults is "decay", as is pregnancy/childbirth, at which point you've redefined the word in a way that makes it completely irrelevant.

 

[neger psykolog]

Decay and transformation are one and the same thing, stopping either is DEATH.

(Just writing this as a point of interest, not technically replying to you)

I think its worth highlighting that Bryan is 47 years old and started this journey in 2021 when he would've been about 43. I believe at that point most parts of the body have already grown and have now entered into the decay phase.
So if someone did this a lot earlier they might be able to technically slow some parts of growing I guess? Whereas he is, at best, probably just slowing the decay? Perhaps some of the stuff he does is regenerative though?

 

[オプセック]

Though to say that decay and transformation are the same thing would mean that children growing into adults is "decay", as is pregnancy/childbirth, at which point you've redefined the word in a way that makes it completely irrelevant.

Question of perspective, indeed.
But this all really boils down to a "you feel me" deal, as I just realized.
I tried to avoid the obvious false equivalencies and tried to address the underlying issue.
Something, something complexity against entropy.
But it's all good, there's no convincing you, your perspective is very subject-focused, which is ok. I just don't think this pursuit, even just for bantz is wise or healthy.
Let's say future regeneration science goes wrong and we all end up cronenberg'd, wouldn't that redefine what it means to be alive and most importantly, what you wanted to do with that life? Why risk it to squeeze more extra life your body, when you already live on through your kids? Freshly re-iterated, mixed and matched from both your and your loved one's gene-seed. Pretty neat. Just fuck cancer, dementia and all that, getting a few extra miles is cool, but I am getting shifty when that stuff is equated to firing people into space or someone goes "look, the clams do it! why can't we?", dangerously naive.

 

[Polyarmory]

they aren't valid comparative studies on how serotonin affects us either.
You really don't understand what's wrong with your examples, do you?
Decay and transformation are one and the same thing, stopping either is DEATH.
Brian Johnson isn't as philosophically retarded as one might assume at first glance, his movement it just saying: Don't die!
He's ahead of you, actually.

You edited your post as a response to mine like a coward, so I'll address the edited post:
I didn't mention serotonin because it's irrelevant. What does that have to do with anything?

I'm also not commenting on the "philosophical" validity of Brian's "movement"; I'm stating that the aging process is not physically impossible to prevent, and since it happens at a cellular level (we think), and lobsters and clams are made out of cells, it's clear that a machine made of animal cells can in fact maintain itself indefinitely. Maybe it's possible to modify the human body in such a way that it properly maintains itself, maybe not, but it doesn't lead directly from the Conservation of Energy that our cells can't do what theirs do.

 

[オプセック]

You edited your post as a response to mine like a coward, so I'll address the edited post:

LoL, I didn't take anything you addressed out. I did substantially edit my second one, sorry in advance.

 

[squidward tentacles]

'm stating that the aging process is not physically impossible to prevent, and since it happens at a cellular level (we think), and lobsters and clams are made out of cells, it's clear that a machine made of animal cells can in fact maintain itself indefinitely.

But lobsters do age, don't they? Obviously they don't age the same way that we do, but they do grow from eggs into (delicious) adults. They eventually die due to being unable to properly molt, but even if there was someone (or generations of someones) assisting with molting forever, the lobster would grow too large to be able to consume enough calories to maintain itself. Death from old age just looks different in a lobster than it does a human.

Of course, research into how lobsters maintain longevity and regrow limbs would be incredible for medical advancements, but Bryan Johnson seems less concerned with that and more afraid that he's wasted his life and wants it back.

 

[Polyarmory]

- elided for brevity -

This is fair, and quite reasonable, I think. I'm a bit of an idealist about these things, and admittedly arguing more from the perspective of "it can't technically be ruled out" more than "there's a good chance it'll actually happen." If it ever does happen, I don't think it'll happen in our lifetimes.

LoL, I didn't take anything out, you addressed. I did actually substantially edit my second one, sorry in advance.

That's true. I assumed the serotonin thing was an argument related to my post, but there's a good chance I just posted before you got the chance to edit. I apologize for jumping to conclusions, and I appreciate that you've been so measured in response to my sperging.

But lobsters do age, don't they? Obviously they don't age the same way that we do, but they do grow from eggs into (delicious) adults. They eventually die due to being unable to properly molt, but even if there was someone (or generations of someones) assisting with molting forever, the lobster would grow too large to be able to consume enough calories to maintain itself. Death from old age just looks different in a lobster than it does a human.

Of course, research into how lobsters maintain longevity and regrow limbs would be incredible for medical advancements, but Bryan Johnson seems less concerned with that and more afraid that he's wasted his life and wants it back.

Whether that counts as aging is a matter of semantics, but I see your point, yeah. And more broadly: The more time passes, the more opportunities there are for non-aging things to kill you, so there really isn't any such thing as "immortality" even if aging were taken out of the equation. No matter how long you live, you're still dead at the end, which a lot of the "rationalist" types tend to ignore.

And yeah, Bryan is, at best, swatting at the epiphenomena of getting older, and when you look at actual old people, I'd say that having a reason to continue living matters more than pretty much everything else. People often take ill and die within a week of their spouse dying, or become terminally ill as soon as they retire, and because these things don't fit neatly in statistics, they're ignored. I tend to think that the things that make young people depressed make old people dead, and fretting about a healthy lifestyle is impotent worrying most of the time.

 

[Dr. Butt]

How exactly do clams/lobsters/etc not aging violate the conservation of energy?

"Why does my 1998 Nokia battery last so much longer than my iPhone 20 battery"

dying his hair

Old rich guys dyeing their hair and living in fear that someone may find out they dye their hair is so fucking funny to me. It's like how bottle-blonde women lived in 1962, truly we have reached a sort of gender equality here.

 

[CoolFool]

So if someone did this a lot earlier they might be able to technically slow some parts of growing I guess? Whereas he is, at best, probably just slowing the decay? Perhaps some of the stuff he does is regenerative though?

Right now, it doesn't matter. Yeah, starting younger is definitely better, but when it comes to talking about aging, there isn't anything that truly stops or slows down the actual aging process to a noticeable degree. Even people who have been healthy and in shape their entire lives still look within the age range of their peers. They might look better and younger than their peers, but no one is looking at a 60 year old and mistaking them for a 20 year old. At best, you get "Wow, they look really young or great for their age!"

Bryan's case is a bit different though because he's not just eating better and doing a bunch of exercises and stretches, he's trying all sorts of things that the average person either can't afford or they are things that were only discovered in the last 10 years. So I suppose it's possible if he had started some of this stuff earlier, maybe he could have put a noticeable dent in slowing aging down. I guess his son will be able to answer that question in 10+ years time, because Bryan has him doing the same stuff.

 

[charlesdickens]

He looks like a marionette. Does he admit to using cosmetics and dying his hair?

He's posted his daily skin care routines. The hair dye stuff is the thing everyone always picks up on first it seems since it's such a bad/basic job, especially for someone with his means and that outsources his decisions to his "team". His teeth are veneers but he didn't get his teeth shaved like most people do for it. I understand him wanting to not destroy healthy teeth, but the veneers make his mouth look weird as hell to me.

 

[theshep]

He was on YMH Podcast with Tom Segura if you're interested in it.

 

[Vinluv Handesbukia]

In just 7 years…Bryan was able to age 14 years



Turns out have negative body fat doesn’t make you look younger… at all.
Also big fan of the glazers going “he looks older because he is older” like his whole gimmick isn’t to look younger.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

In just 7 years…Bryan was able to age 14 years

He didn't age, he turned into Tilda Swinton.

 

[Vinluv Handesbukia]

He was on YMH Podcast with Tom Segura if you're interested in it.

Wow,he still looks fucking old. He looks like he’s in his late 50s now

He didn't age, he turned into Tilda Swinton.

Tomatoe tomatoh

 

[hotcheetospuffs]

He has acknowledged the resemblance to Tilda Swinton and has a sense of humor about it. He has also had fat transfers put in his face. The first time he had donor fat put in and he swelled up because it wasn't his own fat.

 

[Vinluv Handesbukia]

He has acknowledged the resemblance to Tilda Swinton and has a sense of humor about it. He has also had fat transfers put in his face. The first time he had donor fat put in and he swelled up because it wasn't his own fat.

Live Baby BJ reaction

 

[nine inch snails]

whats the verdict on this dude? genuinely trying to look younger, or just a marketing gimmick to sell his vitamin powder?

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

whats the verdict on this dude? genuinely trying to look younger, or just a marketing gimmick to sell his vitamin powder?

Mostly column A with a little of column B. Some of the shit he's done to try and maintain his youth is batshit crazy and he appears to be in a constant state of hypothermia because his resting body temperature is something like 94 F, which is absolutely insane.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

aren't jellyfish immortal?

Turns out have negative body fat doesn’t make you look younger… at all.

yeah, as people point out, high body fat means the skin looks younger, you very rarely see lean and youthful men, hence twink death

Wow,he still looks fucking old. He looks like he’s in his late 50s now

he's younger than both of the fat people beside him by about a decade, yet looks like he was a friend of their parents.