$ (BTC) The Bitcoin Thread - NO SHITCOINERS ALLOWED

the closer we get to the 15th the closer the market gets to crashing. the last week of gains have vanished. the whales are getting out now.
 
Boddof is being pycho -op ass on twiter been up all day besides you know what :punished:
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Like gold, Bitcoin is valuable to the extent that people think it’s valuable: You buy it because you think someone else will pay more for it in the future.
The fact that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value (the way a stock or bond does) doesn’t mean it’s headed to zero. It just means that Bitcoin has become totally untethered from its original purpose. What was supposed to be a way to revolutionize people’s everyday financial lives is now mostly a way for people to get rich quick (or lose their shirts) or, in an ideal scenario, for people to protect their wealth against inflation. Bitcoin began as a cryptocurrency. It has ended as a cryptoasset.




The Bitcoin Dream Is Dead

Bitcoin’s recent 25% plunge illustrates why it will never be a true currency​


James Surowiecki​


19 hours ago·6 min read​





Illustration: Delcan & Co.
OnMay 22, 2010, a Bitcoin developer named Laszlo Hanyecz bought what may have been the most expensive meal in human history when he paid someone 10,000 Bitcoins to pick up and deliver him two pizzas from Papa John’s. Given that one Bitcoin is now worth more than $30,000, those pizzas cost, in retrospect, somewhere north of $300 million.

Nowadays, of course, no one would think of shelling out Bitcoin for something as mundane as a pizza without thinking first about how much money they might be giving up in the future. In the years since Hanyecz’s splurge, Bitcoin has gone from being an interesting experiment in decentralized finance to being the best-performing asset of the decade, rising more than 10,000,000% since 2010 and jumping 220% last year alone. There’s a Bitcoin ticker on every finance website. Legendary investors like Paul Tudor-Jones, Stanley Druckenmiller, and Bill Miller speak approvingly of its prospects, and companies like Square and MicroStrategy have invested their corporate cash into Bitcoin. Despite being extraordinarily risky and volatile — as evidenced by the 25% drop it took between last Friday and Monday afternoon — Bitcoin has, in some sense, been admitted to the club and is now seen by many as a plausible competitor to assets like gold. But along the way, something odd happened: Bitcoin completely lost its original reason for being.

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Bitcoin was, after all, not designed to be a speculative asset. It was designed to be a currency, a new medium of exchange that people could, and would, use to transact daily business with each other. (That’s why we call it a cryptocurrency.) When Bitcoin was first introduced to the world in 2008 in a white paper, its mysterious creator, who dubbed himself Satoshi Nakamoto, described it as “a purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash [which] would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.” He billed Bitcoin as “an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party,” like a bank or credit card company. And that’s exactly what Hanyecz was doing on that day in 2010: sending an electronic payment directly from himself to another person without any third party being involved. He may have unknowingly made a terrible investment decision, but he was using Bitcoin exactly as it had been designed to be used.

It’s easy to forget now, but Bitcoin’s promise in those early days was that it would be a new currency, one that could challenge the hegemony of so-called fiat currencies like the dollar (which are issued by governments) by being untraceable money that would allow people to conduct business cheaply and anonymously. And because Bitcoin was designed to have a fixed number of coins — it will have 21 million coins by 2140, and then no more — people could use it without worrying about inflation debasing its value. It was a kind of cyberpunk fantasy that enchanted many. As recently as 2018, Twitter CEO and Square founder Jack Dorsey said, “The world will ultimately have a single currency. I personally believe that it will be Bitcoin.” Even today, you can still find pundits who trumpet Bitcoin’s revolutionary possibilities and point to things like PayPal’s plan to offer its merchants the ability to transact in cryptocurrencies in 2021 as evidence that radical change is afoot.

The more people hoard Bitcoin, treating it as a speculative asset, the less appealing it seems as a currency.
And yet the reality is that Bitcoin has never really functioned as a currency. Almost from the beginning, only a small percentage of Bitcoin transactions have been for actual goods and services — and of those, many have been for illicit goods and services, like drugs and online gambling. Most Bitcoin transactions have been trades: people simply buying and selling it. The blockchain analysis company Chainalysis, for instance, found that in the first four months of 2019, just 1.3% of total transactions involved merchants. And that trend has only accelerated as the value of Bitcoin has soared. Strikingly, despite the speculative fervor that has surrounded Bitcoin, the total number of transactions has risen only mildly over the past two years. And that number is so small relative to the total number of electronic bank and credit card transactions as to be barely worth mentioning. On average, there are now around 325,000 Bitcoin transactions — including trades — per day. There are roughly a billion credit card transactions per day.

Some of the failure of Bitcoin to live up to its promise as a currency has to do with practical problems with the way it works, most obviously the fact that Bitcoin’s design makes it very slow at processing transactions. For instance, Visa processes approximately 6,000 transactions a second and has the capacity to do many times that. Bitcoin can do seven. So Bitcoin transactions often take a long time to complete, which doesn’t work so well if you’re trying to use Bitcoin at the local convenience store or even buying something online. Bitcoin’s transaction fees have also, at different points, been shockingly high. During the last Bitcoin boom, in 2017, fees reached as high as $55 per transaction, and while they’ve come down sharply since then, as recently as last May it cost more than $6 to buy something with Bitcoin. That’s not a problem if you’re making an investment, but it’s a big obstacle if you want to buy a pizza.

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The more fundamental problem for Bitcoin as a currency, though, has to do with the very thing lots of people like about it—namely that the supply of Bitcoin is controlled and limited. Because the supply is limited, when demand for Bitcoin rises (because, say, people are convinced they can get rich quick by buying it), then the value of Bitcoin is going to rise as well. So, if you believe your Bitcoin is going to become more popular, then it’s foolish to spend it on a pizza: You should hoard it and then sell it once its price rises. And since you can get along perfectly well without spending Bitcoin, there’s never been anything pushing people to stop hoarding. The more people hoard Bitcoin, treating it as a speculative asset, the less appealing it seems as a currency.

On top of this, the extraordinary volatility of Bitcoin’s price — which, as we’ve seen in the past week, can fall 10% to 20% overnight — discourages businesses and individuals from accepting Bitcoin in exchange for real goods and services, since few people want to get paid today with something that might be 10% less valuable tomorrow. (Of course, it might also be 10% more valuable. But that kind of gamble isn’t one most businesses are interested in making.)

Like gold, Bitcoin is valuable to the extent that people think it’s valuable: You buy it because you think someone else will pay more for it in the future.
Bitcoin’s transformation from putative currency to speculative asset, in other words, was effectively built into the system from the start. It’s where Bitcoin was headed all along. (Cryptocurrencies have emerged in Bitcoin’s wake that are better designed to function as currencies, but paradoxically they’re nowhere near as popular as Bitcoin.) Even though it may have been designed as a payment system and a medium of exchange, Bitcoin’s real appeal was, inevitably, going to be as what economists call a “store of value,” a kind of digital analogue to gold. Like gold, Bitcoin is valuable to the extent that people think it’s valuable: You buy it because you think someone else will pay more for it in the future. And like gold, its value can’t be inflated away by a central bank.

The fact that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value (the way a stock or bond does) doesn’t mean it’s headed to zero. It just means that Bitcoin has become totally untethered from its original purpose. What was supposed to be a way to revolutionize people’s everyday financial lives is now mostly a way for people to get rich quick (or lose their shirts) or, in an ideal scenario, for people to protect their wealth against inflation. Bitcoin began as a cryptocurrency. It has ended as a cryptoasset.
 
Currency is an asset ,if you read "the origins of money"by Carl Menger you will learn that money was originated as a market phenomena in which the goods that are in the most demand are used to make transactions and end up being money if they have certain characteristics.

For example lets say two people want to exchange, in order to avoid the problem of having to have something the other person wants they make the trade with a good that is in high demand in the economy like bread, the problem with this is that bread doesn't have the characteristics of money which are:
1. Durability (doesn't degrade)
2.Its not easy to transport or stack (you can't buy a house with bread since that would require giving the other person several carts of bread so its incovenient and you cant stack bread in your house or a bank and you cant carry it with you)

Money needs to have other characteristics like being divisible in small quantities, gold and silver were used as money in every culture because they have all of the characteristics for money, no one decided that it will be used as a currency everywhere, they were just goods that had all the characteristics of money that were available all around the world and places that didn't had it started using them once they acquired them through trade.

My point is that saying "gold is just an asset" is fucking retarded because MONEY IS AN ASSET and always was until very recently and that only stopped when it wasn't backed by gold anymore. Money it's just the good that had all the characteristics of money, originally you could exchange your currency for gold at any time you want but that changed once gubmint decided to stop that so they could fuck you with inflation (which is caused by government) and get more money that way. Now we use money that is not backed by anything and its only used as an exchange method because government forces us to do so ,that way they can steal our money with inflation.

The guy that wrote that gold doesn't have "intrinsic value like bonds or stock" is a retard that doesn't understand basic economics principles that were discovered about 150 years ago. Bitcoin is valuable because you can make transactions paying a minuscule fee compared to making a bank transfer, you can hoard as much as it as you want and it doesn't degrade over time, the only problem is that you can't make micro transactions with it but other cryptos exists that allow you to make transfers for less than a cent. Bitcoin is a good that can be used to make transactions just like gold and silver was and that is not a bad thing,thats literally what money is,its value is in that its in high demand for everyone and while that might not be the case now give it a decade and much more people are going to use crypto (just like 8 years ago no one knew what crypto was but millions of people have crypto now).

Sorry I got triggered.
 
Bitcoin is valuable because you can make transactions paying a minuscule fee compared to making a bank transfer
What kind of shitty banks are you basing that on? The other day I went to try to pay for something with Bitcoin because they were offering a discount. The price was around US$12 worth of BTC. The lowest transaction fee was about $5.50. A 45% fee, and you still have to wait hours for the transaction to clear. I said fuck it and paid with filthy fiat since it was still cheaper without the discount. That's not a viable currency at all.
 
The guy that wrote that gold doesn't have "intrinsic value like bonds or stock" is a retard that doesn't understand basic economics principles that were discovered about 150 years ago.
Well he is retarded about that because it literally does have intrinsic value. Just not being able to be created at will is an intrinsic value. Still the fact is though that even though BTC has many of the useful attributes of cash, its future value is very often much more than whatever you would obtain by using it as a currency, so it may be a currency (in addition to being an asset), but it's not particularly great at being a currency.
 
What kind of shitty banks are you basing that on? The other day I went to try to pay for something with Bitcoin because they were offering a discount. The price was around US$12 worth of BTC. The lowest transaction fee was about $5.50. A 45% fee, and you still have to wait hours for the transaction to clear. I said fuck it and paid with filthy fiat since it was still cheaper without the discount. That's not a viable currency at all.
It depends of the crypto, BTC has a high transfer fee (the price you pay to transfer money) but some cryptos like bitcoin cash charge you less than a cent and that saves you money compared to using traditional methods. I admit BTC has this problem where its only good for doing large payments.
Well he is retarded about that because it literally does have intrinsic value. Just not being able to be created at will is an intrinsic value. Still the fact is though that even though BTC has many of the useful attributes of cash, its future value is very often much more than whatever you would obtain by using it as a currency, so it may be a currency (in addition to being an asset), but it's not particularly great at being a currency.

Yes its true, people buy it as an investment now rather than for its trade value, but I think that this was the case with gold and silver as well. I imagine that when everyone was using cows, chickens and wheat as currency gold and silver didn't had much value but as people started realizing that it was better(since it has all the characteristics of money) they started acquiring it expecting its value to go up and there was a point where everyone had it so it started to be used for trades since it was better than animals and wheat.

I have no way of proving this was the case but I think that is what happened and I assume that this will happen with crypto too since paying using bitcoin cash (which has less than a cent transfer fee) is better than using other methods. Although I admit bitcoin is not a great currency because money needs to be divisible in small units and you cant do that with BTC since the transfer fee is too high.

Right now people buy bitcoin because its the most popular one since it was the first ,its not the best crypto but its the most popular , I assume that once people become more informed other cryptos that allow for microtransactions will be used more and people are going to demand those instead of bitcoin since it would be better.
 
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Although I admit bitcoin is not a great currency because money needs to be divisible in small units and you cant do that with BTC since the transfer fee is too high.
This is really going to be a huge problem as time goes on. We're already in the last leg of Bitcoin creation and well before we reach it much of the supply will be fragmented into useless micro-sums that essentially can't be transferred. And worse, since miners will only be rewarded by transaction fees, those will likely go up as well. There will probably have to be a radical hard fork at some point, resulting in some kind of Bitcoin miner war, and one of the forks will die entirely while the other will retain value.
 
Crosspost- someone on this or DC protest called it
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......
Update but statement is watch your six -BTC till rooting for your good fight :gunt:
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  • Janet Yellen on Tuesday suggested lawmakers "curtail" the use of Bitcoin amid terrorism concerns.
  • Yellen said cryptocurrency transactions were used "mainly for illicit financing."
  • It was the latest sign that lawmakers and regulators could get tough on Bitcoin and Ethereum.
 
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Another bad thing is how bitcoin is now backed by thether which is a cryptocoin that functions like the dollar. And supposedly this firm has 30 billion in US dollars to match to a coin in its thether. If the SEC fucks them like they did ripple this whole thing goes boom.
just reposting my comment. from a month ago. bitcoin has lost roughly 20% of its value from last week. anyone HODLing should only expect to cash out sometime in the 2040s when Baron will finally stop putting people in Guantanamo for holding BAT and other crypto.
 
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just reposting my comment. from a month ago. bitcoin has lost roughly 20% of its value from last week. anyone HODLing should only expect to cash out sometime in the 2040s when Baron will finally stop putting people in Guantanamo for holding BAT and other crypto.
BTC went down 20% in August/September. Another 20% dip in November. After a 100% increase over the course of three weeks, youre doomposting over another 20-25% dip? Maybe you should try this when we're sub-20k again.
 
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