Canada is a failed state

[DiscoRodeo]

Talking with family in Ontario (Got out of the province a few years back when covid started, because I was not going through another lockdown).

Was commenting on the new NYC approach to rounding up the homeless for forced hospital stays, and my mom just goes "They cant do that, they dont have beds"

>What

Turns out that, at least in a lot of South-Western Ontario, hospitals are short on beds, in addition to staff now. For a lot of long term care patients, theyre trying to ship them up north because they lack the beds and staff for them. If long term care patients refuse (because, of course, if youre going to be in the hospital for a long time you want to be near your family and not shipped off somewhere like Thunder Bay) you can get charged up to $400 a night for refusing to get shipped out.

Wanted to confirm this with a relative of mine working in healthcare, and apparently its even worse. Tylenol is hard to get on the shelves and some doctors are giving perscriptions. New hospital hires are mostly people in their late 20s, early 30s, with most of the old staff retiring or getting out during the pandemic. Super low availability of beds. Emails begging people to volunteer for extra shifts, even for double pay, etc. Thats on top of surgeries being delayed for half a year to the majority of a year as well.

It really seems like things are going bad, and we honestly may be facing a health care collapse.
Not saying that its just the pandemic that's causing this.

Bill 124's freezing of hiring and wages of public sector workers (before the pandemic) is a big contributor towards this in Ontario, imo

But its just, seems like the perfect storm hit Canadian healthcare. Cuts to the healthcare sector's public funding, freezing wages and hiring (years of burnout besides),

then the pandemic,

and now we're here today.

Might be the actual first part of the state that will fail, as opposed to being "failing". The government is trying to reconcile this with a promised "1% wage increase yearly in healthcare" but it seems like it may genuinely be too little, too late.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I just don't think the government cares, they see us all as cattle now. Good little cows to milk for tax money. I've never gotten such a feeling of hatred from a government before. Liberal arrogance was always a thing, but this is next level.

You can make a pretty funny comic of a cow claiming that part of the revenue from the milk they give will be used to care for them when they can no longer be milked, with a farmer wearing the Canadian flag cocking a shotgun in the background.

 

[Catler]

Talking with family in Ontario (Got out of the province a few years back when covid started, because I was not going through another lockdown).

Was commenting on the new NYC approach to rounding up the homeless for forced hospital stays, and my mom just goes "They cant do that, they dont have beds"

>What

Turns out that, at least in a lot of South-Western Ontario, hospitals are short on beds, in addition to staff now. For a lot of long term care patients, theyre trying to ship them up north because they lack the beds and staff for them. If long term care patients refuse (because, of course, if youre going to be in the hospital for a long time you want to be near your family and not shipped off somewhere like Thunder Bay) you can get charged up to $400 a night for refusing to get shipped out.

Wanted to confirm this with a relative of mine working in healthcare, and apparently its even worse. Tylenol is hard to get on the shelves and some doctors are giving perscriptions. New hospital hires are mostly people in their late 20s, early 30s, with most of the old staff retiring or getting out during the pandemic. Super low availability of beds. Emails begging people to volunteer for extra shifts, even for double pay, etc. Thats on top of surgeries being delayed for half a year to the majority of a year as well.

It really seems like things are going bad, and we honestly may be facing a health care collapse.
Not saying that its just the pandemic that's causing this.
View attachment 4011822
Bill 124's freezing of hiring and wages of public sector workers (before the pandemic) is a big contributor towards this in Ontario, imo

But its just, seems like the perfect storm hit Canadian healthcare. Cuts to the healthcare sector's public funding, freezing wages and hiring (years of burnout besides),

then the pandemic,

and now we're here today.

Might be the actual first part of the state that will fail, as opposed to being "failing". The government is trying to reconcile this with a promised "1% wage increase yearly in healthcare" but it seems like it may genuinely be too little, too late.

The unbelievable thing is that there are provinces where it's significantly worse than it is in Ontario. In NS and NB healthcare is right on the precipice of failure, in NB specifically people have recently died in ER waiting rooms before they could get care.

People will accuse me of doomerism, but healthcare in this country is legitimately doomed. It can't be fixed at this point, the issues are decades in the making and COVID has been the final nail in the coffin. The system as it exists can not survive and function long term into the future, the issues are too complex and solutions are a decade away at best if implemented right now.

This is a system that now has to cope with boomers retiring en masse and their health issues in old age lmao, and the health needs of hundreds of thousands of new immigrants per year. People really don't have any understanding of how bad things are, or how bad they're going to get.

Might be the actual first part of the state that will fail, as opposed to being "failing".

I'm not sure what it would actually take to admit failure. People are already dying from lack of care.

 

[whothefuck]

is there any good news from what alberta is doing?

Alberta Sovereignty within a United Canada Act

The act allows Alberta to fight harmful federal laws and defend the constitutional federal-provincial division of powers.

www.alberta.ca

 

[Hokuriku]

is there any good news from what alberta is doing?

Alberta Sovereignty within a United Canada Act

The act allows Alberta to fight harmful federal laws and defend the constitutional federal-provincial division of powers.

www.alberta.ca

Nobody can make up their minds. The NP had adjacent articles yesterday calling it simultaneously 'dictatorial' and 'toothless'. As I've mentioned earlier I think the feds are going to try and just ignore it until Alberta's provincial election next year.

I mostly just see it as one more step in the process. It took over a decade of unproductive diplomatic escalation for the 13 colonies to finally figure out that there was no feasible option to work with a distant and colonialist Great Britain.

You can make a pretty funny comic of a cow claiming that part of the revenue from the milk they give will be used to care for them when they can no longer be milked, with a farmer wearing the Canadian flag cocking a shotgun in the background.

Only about a century plus late with that

 

[F13 Key]

The unbelievable thing is that there are provinces where it's significantly worse than it is in Ontario. In NS and NB healthcare is right on the precipice of failure, in NB specifically people have recently died in ER waiting rooms before they could get care.

People will accuse me of doomerism, but healthcare in this country is legitimately doomed. It can't be fixed at this point, the issues are decades in the making and COVID has been the final nail in the coffin. The system as it exists can not survive and function long term into the future, the issues are too complex and solutions are a decade away at best if implemented right now.

This is a system that now has to cope with boomers retiring en masse and their health issues in old age lmao, and the health needs of hundreds of thousands of new immigrants per year. People really don't have any understanding of how bad things are, or how bad they're going to get.

The immigration targets and system are as pozzed with red tape as the healthcare system is. On paper the idea of bringing immigrants in to fill jobs sounds great, and at least some are inevitably necessary. But allowing them to immigrate elder relatives who land and immediately need long term care for chronic health issues, is just one of the many problems that adds weight onto the already breaking system.

We try to immigrate skilled workers like doctors, but they have to go through so much recertification and retraining to be able to get a license to practice here that they end up useless. I'd take a pajeet doctor over nothing, but we wouldn't even have to resort to that if we'd invested more into the system, trained more doctors, and cut the bureaucracy down decades ago. Now it's too late.

My doomer brain thinks that in thirty or forty years, assuming the country hasn't fragmented up, we're going to have a two tier healthcare system even more fucked up than the USA. Private insurance won't pay for anything if you're over 65 and the public system will just be handing you a MAiD at home kit with brochures to reassure you on how your early death is benefitting society.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Reading stuff like this, it's no wonder why Canada's health system is crashing and burning:

Longueuil nurse who was suspended for eating a piece of toast reinstated

The nurse, ordered suspended for three days, said she did not have the time to eat breakfast that day.

nationalpost.com

Apparently, eating ONE PIECE OF TOAST is enough to get you suspended from work.

 

[OutInTheRain]

My doomer brain thinks that in thirty or forty years, assuming the country hasn't fragmented up, we're going to have a two tier healthcare system even more fucked up than the USA. Private insurance won't pay for anything if you're over 65 and the public system will just be handing you a MAiD at home kit with brochures to reassure you on how your early death is benefitting society.

A two tiered system was always gonna happen. Our current system was always going to fail. The economic stagnation that we have endured has only hastened it's demise. I do imagine that eventually the government will cheap out on the home MAID kits, just giving you a rope, and a form letter from the PM.

 

[Kiwisee]

At first, I thought that the regime we live under was simply incompetence caused by pathological altruism. Then I thought they were simply being malicious while hiding behind appearing to be altruistic.

I’ve come to accept that not only are they pathologically altruistic, but they’re also malicious AND incompetent. This regime has single handedly, in eight years, killed the middle class and ushered in less social stability than what we had pre-2015 (and even that was already crumbling).

I used to laugh at Trudeau, but I’ve reached a point where just hearing him speak is infuriating to my senses. I’ve cut off any family members who not only supported the lockdowns, but also anyone who still supports Trudeau in any fashion, including blindly supporting the carbon tax which has done more to harm working class Canadians.

Seeing the ad for assisted suicide has cemented to me that we are being ruled by Neo-Liberal utilitarians who only see all of us as social insurance numbers and nothing more. While that has always been the case, I’m glad that I at least have proof of this now.

As I’ve said previously, scratch a socialist and a eugenicist bleeds. Socialized healthcare will always devolve into eugenics, deciding who’s life is worth saving and who’s isn’t. It’s also worth noting that Tommy Douglas, the man responsible for ushering in public healthcare, was a eugenicist so it’s not like it’s ever not been out in the open.

While there’s some doomers out there saying that Canadians won’t do anything about it; I think it’s the opposite. I think there will be a violent revolution at this point if the regime keeps pushing everyone’s buttons like this; it’s not a matter of if but rather when.

Or rather, it’s either going to end in violent revolt or it will end in a similar manner that the collapse of the USSR did. The fact that the refugees who came here welfare shopping are starting to leave in droves is a sign that some form of collapse is on the horizon, and it’s about to get much, much worse from here.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

The immigration targets and system are as pozzed with red tape as the healthcare system is. On paper the idea of bringing immigrants in to fill jobs sounds great, and at least some are inevitably necessary. But allowing them to immigrate elder relatives who land and immediately need long term care for chronic health issues, is just one of the many problems that adds weight onto the already breaking system.

We try to immigrate skilled workers like doctors, but they have to go through so much recertification and retraining to be able to get a license to practice here that they end up useless. I'd take a pajeet doctor over nothing, but we wouldn't even have to resort to that if we'd invested more into the system, trained more doctors, and cut the bureaucracy down decades ago. Now it's too late.

My doomer brain thinks that in thirty or forty years, assuming the country hasn't fragmented up, we're going to have a two tier healthcare system even more fucked up than the USA. Private insurance won't pay for anything if you're over 65 and the public system will just be handing you a MAiD at home kit with brochures to reassure you on how your early death is benefitting society.

We honestly kind of already have that.

Worked in insurance for a long time before moving out of the province, and a lot of these medications and pills that people were relying on the government for (and also citing as the reason why theyre seeking MAID because they can no longer afford them) are the types of things that insurance covers (at least within Ontario).

Even past that, I know of a lot of people who are heading into the US for surgeries, among other procedures.

We basically already have the makings of a two tier system, just not one within the nation specifically in all aspects.

My doomer brain is less on having a two tier system (which already exists in a lot of regards), and more that state funded healthcare is legitimately going to collapse.

As I’ve said previously, scratch a socialist and a eugenicist bleeds. Socialized healthcare will always devolve into eugenics, deciding who’s life is worth saving and who’s isn’t. It’s also worth noting that Tommy Douglas, the man responsible for ushering in public healthcare, was a eugenicist so it’s not like it’s ever not been out in the open.

Heres where Id disagree, in Ontario at least. In part its the liberal government thats at fault here at a federal level; but the tories gutting our healthcare when they came into power under Ford (freezing wages, hiring, and planning to cut billions in spending on healthcare), only to then have the pandemic suddenly emerge a year later, which fucked us.

I think the trend of cutting healthcare funding was already going to put a major strain on our healthcare system and push more and more towards two tier, and that covid (as it did with all things) accelerated that process.

Dunno about violent revolt, but brain drain man. Get out when the going's good. If I have to go to the US for my healthcare, whats to stop me from just staying in a culture more friendly towards my individual liberties, except for the trouble of getting a visa?

Conservative or liberal in Canada, it doesnt really make much difference who is in power at this point.

I think the big thing that liberals don't realize, and take for granted, is that if you burn the middle class enough, if you tell them that you don't value them, their culture, or their heritage, if you disenfranchise them, etc-

People will "Soft quit". Theyll move on. Truckers, I don't think theyd be so gung ho' the next time there's a pandemic to help the government.

We even saw it with healthcare workers who were burnt out for years due to the government, retiring during covid or moving on and out.

A lot of our middle class, I think, is going to look for greener pastures. That may involve moving down south to a nation that is ironically much more diverse of opinion and culture, or at the very least outside of bughives if they can help it. Unironically, thats what I fear the most for Canada. That we're going to become Argentina-like, where we have a moderately educated class of people, who are constantly leaving the nation due to periods of inflation, low employment, and a government that just doesnt respect people's rights.

 

[soulgains]

The only evidence you need for why Canada is a failed state is downtown Vancouver: Chink skyscrapers and homeless niggers shitting on the sidewalk.

 

[Catler]

Up it goes again, this time by 50 basis points: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-1.6677004

Bank of Canada raises rate again to 4.25% — but opens door to staying…

archived 7 Dec 2022 17:03:12 UTC

archive.ph

 

[F13 Key]

Great, maybe now I can buy a house for under a million dollars. Just kidding, the monthly mortgage will still be my entire take home pay and 90% will be going to interest.

 

[L. Ron Hubbard's Cat]

Conservative or liberal in Canada, it doesnt really make much difference who is in power at this point.

Agreed. This whole thread is kinda funny, actually. Late-stage capitalism is doing exactly what we've been saying late-stage capitalism is gonna do for decades, and everyone's all surprised Pikachu about it. And their solution is to get rid of the last token barriers we have to capitalism. The only reason we're feeling it here first is that we lack the same cultural mythos around the rugged individual as Americans do. They'll put up with this shit for a lot longer because they never had anything worth preserving in the first place as far as social systems go. Canada actually had something to lose, and we lost it.

If only we had a politician who was willing to stand up to foreign (*cough* American) billionaires. But no, everyone thinks Elon Musk is gonna save us somehow. If only Jeff Bezos was running the healthcare system.

The legal pot makes all of this much easier to accept, at least. A gram is better than a damn.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

At first, I thought that the regime we live under was simply incompetence caused by pathological altruism. Then I thought they were simply being malicious while hiding behind appearing to be altruistic.

I’ve come to accept that not only are they pathologically altruistic, but they’re also malicious AND incompetent. This regime has single handedly, in eight years, killed the middle class and ushered in less social stability than what we had pre-2015 (and even that was already crumbling).

I remember what Picard said in the TNG episode, "The Drumhead" (back when Star Trek was watchable), "villains that clothe themselves in good deeds are much harder to spot." Canadian--or more appropriately, the Laurentian elite's pathological "altruism" is rooted in their egocentrism and false sense of virtuousness over the United States. They believe that saying the "right" thing and throwing money at the trendy cause du jour can buy them virtue and absolve them of any sin, however, virtue is not something that anyone can buy. You measure virtue in one's actions and let's face facts, the Trudeau regime has never been about action.

Global News revealed that the CCP interfered in the 2019 elections by funding eleven Liberal and Conservative candidates via the their Toronto consulate. Trudeau was briefed of this in January, but what does he do? Sit on his hands until Global exposes him. He attempts to confront Xi Jinping at the G20 summit in Bali, only to get chewed out before bidding a hasty retreat. Being the pathological liar he is, he claims that the RCMP, CSIS, and various security agencies never briefed him. Bullshit. I doubt that even the Mounties were incompetent enough to forget briefing the head of government on a potential security risk. The opposition pressed his government on the issue, but we get the some non-answers because no one in the media or the Canadian left holds Trudeau and his cronies to account.

Then there is aforementioned collapse of Canada's universal healthcare system. While healthcare is a provincial responsibility, the federal transfer program was designed to ensure all provinces (rich and poor) can offer the same quality of service. No one wants to admit that the system is working, least of all Ottawa, and no one wants to enact any meaningful reform. The usual defense is, "at least it's better than the American system." Motherfuckers, you know that Canada and the United States are but two nations among two hundred, right? The Netherlands and Japan have more flexible universal healthcare systems that offer higher quality care for less cost. No, we would rather tell our veterans, the disabled, homeless, etc. to kill themselves than actually reform and streamline the system.

Oh, and the federal transfer program? It it proof of what I call "asymmetrical federalism". What I mean by that is certain provinces *cough*QUEBEC*cough* get special treatment at the expense of others. For example, revenue from Quebec's hydroelectric projects is not counted as part of the province's GDP. Why? Because they would not receive the lion's share of transfer payments. Similarly, remember when Doug Ford recently threatened to invoke the notwithstanding clause to deal with a labour dispute? Trudeau (and his sock puppet Singh) strongly condemned the action, but he is either subdued or completely silent when Quebec invokes it . Hell, I have noticed that Trudeau is far more comfortable in revealing his true angry and vindictive colours on Quebec television. It is not just his "do we tolerate these people?" from last year. He openly disparaged Albertans in years past and claimed that Quebeckers are better than other Canadians.

Danielle Smith introduced--and passed--the much-maligned Sovereignty Act to reassert provincial jurisdiction because the comically-inept federal government keeps overstepping its bounds. The drooling mouth-breathers of Ottawa, downtown Toronto, and the whole of Quebec are too fucking stupid to realize that their little experiment has failed. Canada is--for all intents--a shambling husk of a nation animated by borrowed money. The civil service is so bloated that nothing can ever get done and half of the citizenry is either in denial or too ignorant to notice. Odin help us, the nation needs an overhaul. Smith and Poilievre say the right things, but I still see too much institutional rot and vested interests (like the unions) in keeping the status quo. Nothing is going to change because too many influential Canadians and their enablers have huffed their rectal methane emissions.

Are Canadians good people? Not particularly. Our government is comically evil and living proof of what happens when you let deranged narcissists run the asylum.

 

[Sweetpeaa]

At first, I thought that the regime we live under was simply incompetence caused by pathological altruism. Then I thought they were simply being malicious while hiding behind appearing to be altruistic.

I’ve come to accept that not only are they pathologically altruistic, but they’re also malicious AND incompetent. This regime has single handedly, in eight years, killed the middle class and ushered in less social stability than what we had pre-2015 (and even that was already crumbling).

I used to laugh at Trudeau, but I’ve reached a point where just hearing him speak is infuriating to my senses. I’ve cut off any family members who not only supported the lockdowns, but also anyone who still supports Trudeau in any fashion, including blindly supporting the carbon tax which has done more to harm working class Canadians.

Seeing the ad for assisted suicide has cemented to me that we are being ruled by Neo-Liberal utilitarians who only see all of us as social insurance numbers and nothing more. While that has always been the case, I’m glad that I at least have proof of this now.

As I’ve said previously, scratch a socialist and a eugenicist bleeds. Socialized healthcare will always devolve into eugenics, deciding who’s life is worth saving and who’s isn’t. It’s also worth noting that Tommy Douglas, the man responsible for ushering in public healthcare, was a eugenicist so it’s not like it’s ever not been out in the open.

While there’s some doomers out there saying that Canadians won’t do anything about it; I think it’s the opposite. I think there will be a violent revolution at this point if the regime keeps pushing everyone’s buttons like this; it’s not a matter of if but rather when.

Or rather, it’s either going to end in violent revolt or it will end in a similar manner that the collapse of the USSR did. The fact that the refugees who came here welfare shopping are starting to leave in droves is a sign that some form of collapse is on the horizon, and it’s about to get much, much worse from here.

Most of the people asking to be euthanized are the disabled because of generally poor integration of them into the workforce and their dire poverty. Canada doesn't have an equivalent to ADA (with teeth). The U.S is actually well ahead on actual disability workforce participation than us which really surprised me.

If you are reading the recent MAID stories you'll come across many people with physical disabilities being offered it - many of these people are literally only physically challenged, not terminally ill and other wise healthy. Their temptation toward MAID is one of desperation because employers will not hire these people even with an education due to very real discrimination.

It's one thing for the government to tell these people to go and rope themselves but Canadian society's lack of interest in protecting and including a very real class of discriminated people show's you the kind of people who live among us. Diversity and inclusion? what a laugh.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

The Netherlands and Japan have more flexible universal healthcare systems that offer higher quality care for less cost.

This is something that does actually amuse me quite a bit, and one of the big things that fat acceptance and our food has sunk for us.

Japan specifically (as I know more on their nation's healthcare) actually has much higher and much more expansive coverage than Canada. If you get sick, youre going to be treated with high quality care, and the state will basically bankroll you.

But how do they make it work?

Theyre one of the healthiest groups of people in the world, and practically never have to lean on that healthcare. Their food is great, they exercise, and they tend to take their physical health pretty seriously. Other than the alcoholism and working 6 days per week in many cases, applaudable.

They cost less, not because of a corruption issue necessarily or some magic money math; but because as Canadians, our population is relatively much less healthier, even than the Netherlands.

It's one thing for the government to tell these people to go and rope themselves but Canadian society's lack of interest in protecting and including a very real class of discriminated people show's you the kind of people who live among us. Diversity and inclusion? what a laugh.

Bingo. its an altruism that only goes as far as convenience. Programs such as ADA to protect groups of people like this? Well, lets "talk" about it, instead of actually doing much of anything and feel superior for having a chat about it and what would be the *most moral*.

The Canadian process.

 

[Shidoen]

I’m just saying, the moment they burned the first White House I’m assuming a seething Jew cursed them.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

Bingo. its an altruism that only goes as far as convenience. Programs such as ADA to protect groups of people like this? Well, lets "talk" about it, instead of actually doing much of anything and feel superior for having a chat about it and what would be the *most moral*.

The Canadian process.

I am, frankly, astonished at the laziness and complacency that exists on all levels of government and the bureaucracy in this country. Trudeau rambles on about consulting experts or setting up panels to deal with the myriad issues that face the nation, but very little is done while his government fleeces the taxpayer as the case is with the missing CERB funds. Look at the annual COP conferences where Trudeau sends delegations in the hundreds (compared to the US or UK delegations, which number in the dozen) as smoke and mirrors while the Liberals fail to meet their emissions targets every year.

The fact is that talk is cheap. It gives people that dopamine hit while accomplishing little--if nothing--in terms of results. Canadians, especially on the left, by and large want instant gratification because Asgard forbid they must sacrifice comfort to get things done.

 

[Ser Prize]

Agreed. This whole thread is kinda funny, actually. Late-stage capitalism is doing exactly what we've been saying late-stage capitalism is gonna do for decades, and everyone's all surprised Pikachu about it. And their solution is to get rid of the last token barriers we have to capitalism. The only reason we're feeling it here first is that we lack the same cultural mythos around the rugged individual as Americans do. They'll put up with this shit for a lot longer because they never had anything worth preserving in the first place as far as social systems go. Canada actually had something to lose, and we lost it.

If only we had a politician who was willing to stand up to foreign (*cough* American) billionaires. But no, everyone thinks Elon Musk is gonna save us somehow. If only Jeff Bezos was running the healthcare system.

The legal pot makes all of this much easier to accept, at least. A gram is better than a damn.

You are the personification of why this nation failed. Slagging our socialist failings as being 'late stage capitalism' while saying the pot made it worthwhile. You will destroy any nation you occupy due to your sheer retardation.

I am, frankly, astonished at the laziness and complacency that exists on all levels of government and the bureaucracy in this country. Trudeau rambles on about consulting experts or setting up panels to deal with the myriad issues that face the nation, but very little is done while his government fleeces the taxpayer as the case is with the missing CERB funds. Look at the annual COP conferences where Trudeau sends delegations in the hundreds (compared to the US or UK delegations, which number in the dozen) as smoke and mirrors while the Liberals fail to meet their emissions targets every year.

The fact is that talk is cheap. It gives people that dopamine hit while accomplishing little--if nothing--in terms of results. Canadians, especially on the left, by and large want instant gratification because Asgard forbid they must sacrifice comfort to get things done.

I knew I was in a dead country when I remembered I can't rely on the police to protect me from violent crime and I also won't be able to get a spot in a hospital even if I get stabbed.

I also can't get a job because Taj and his sixteen cousins took over all the local places and only import more pajeets to work.