Canada is a failed state

PP lost to Justin fucking Trudeau. I can't respect anyone who lost to a Trudeau. The rest of the conservatives are out of touch losers to much like the other major parties in this country.
PP had to deal with the two worst outcomes you could get from an election back to back. Losing to a guy who kept getting more and more unpopular and losing an election you were projected to win alongside losing your seat. I'm shocked the guy didn't kill himself.
Pierre didn’t lead the conservatives in any elections against Trudeau. Plus Pierre lost because his whole strategy was running against Trudeau and not the liberal party. Plus with the NDP collapse all their voters voted Liberal.

2015: Harper vs Trudeau (NDP would have won if Layton didn’t die)

2019: Milk boy Andrew Scheer vs Trudeau

2021: Erin O’Toole (girls name) vs Trudeau (this was the best performance of the PPC at 3-4%)
 
Pierre didn’t lead the conservatives in any elections against Trudeau. Plus Pierre lost because his whole strategy was running against Trudeau and not the liberal party. Plus with the NDP collapse all their voters voted Liberal.
I'll take the L on this as i think all conservative party leaders just blend together in my head.

I still believe that PP bringing up this Trudeau RCMP stuff while on the road is a bad look because his opponent right now is Carney and bringing up shit Trudeau did just makes Carney look better (unless you were already anti liberal which just makes them as a whole look worse).
 
I'll take the L on this as i think all conservative party leaders just blend together in my head.

I still believe that PP bringing up this Trudeau RCMP stuff while on the road is a bad look because his opponent right now is Carney and bringing up shit Trudeau did just makes Carney look better (unless you were already anti liberal which just makes them as a whole look worse).
The sheer magnitude of Justin's corruption cannot be allowed to fade away
 
I'm only vaguely aligned with Poilievre for his proposed 90% reduction in immigration targets.

Otherwise, Canadian politics is a dead horse inhabited by Third World worms.

The only figure who is even vaguely right-wing is Bernier and he's completely ostracised.

We don't have anything like the American and European right-wing.
 
But to your point, probably the newest, non-retarded nationalist voice out there is Fortissax - and even with him, it's hard to escape the impression that he is playing in a small pond with little to draw upon. The history is certainly there - but it's from a scant population - and that group of people itself is primarily of 'I can make a living in Canada' stock. We're not like the Americans, which had non-economic reasons for their original exodus from Britain. We're not even like the Australians, who can call themselves the 'proud refuse' of the UK. The English portion of Canada is primarily the 'couldn't hack it in Britain' cohort. That is not a basis for differentiation and nationhood. It's not a 'we believe differently (Puritans)' or 'you cast us aside, we flourished' (Aussies). Canada is a 'we never would have left, but the wages were better out here' identity. It was a mistake to ever pretend we stopped being part of Britain. The seed determines the fruit - and we were never a people that wanted to be separate from the Empire, so we have floundered under the idea that we are a nation.

For all Fortissax's conviction, it's telling that he is Anglo-Quebecois and so the drum he beats loudest is... Anglo-Quebec nationalism. See? The pond is so small he primarily has to draw from his own roots for water. The painful thing is that he is right - but that his correct answer is simply insufficient to form a nation around.

And so, like you said, Canadians have to look forward, not back. We have to await or create the event that actually distinguishes Canadians as a coherent nationality.
I respect Fortissax's arguments and what he's trying to do, but I have a similar sort of nagging feeling about this brand of nationalism him and the Second Sons are bringing out. I listened to him debate some Alberta separatists on X a little while back, he made his case for the Canadian people being distinct and unique, and argued that Alberta would be better off with Canada than on it's own or being absorbed into the US, if Canada could be turned around. The roots of one of the separatists came up, going all the way back to the original praire settlers, Fortissax told him that it's very likely that the two of them were distant cousins, hence one people and should stay united. The separatist's response to all this was "So what? Why does this any of this matter now?".

And yeah, maybe it's because like you I have European roots only going back 3-4 generations and can't feel the blood bonding with old stock Canadians, but I feel as if this last desperate attempt to salvage a Canadian identity is just exactly that, a desperate attempt. Now saying all that I won't be upset if what Fortissax/Second Sons are trying to start ends up becoming successful one day, but I still think the best/most likely endgame for Canada is fracture and being absorbed into the States.
Makes me think that PP isnt ready to be PM let alone the leader of the opposition and conservatives should have dumped his ass when he lost his seat instead of giving him a pity free win and letting Battle River have a MP who will never visit nor give a shit about what they want just like he did in Carleton.

There is a reason why he is randomly bringing this shit up like gossip while on the road and not in any actual form that would uphold law and justice, its a con job done by the best people: the cons.
The Cons have no one else to run, while it's hard to believe PP is the pinnacle of personality in the CPC right now.
I'm only vaguely aligned with Poilievre for his proposed 90% reduction in immigration targets.

Otherwise, Canadian politics is a dead horse inhabited by Third World worms.

The only figure who is even vaguely right-wing is Bernier and he's completely ostracised.

We don't have anything like the American and European right-wing.
Did he actually say 90%? He picked the low hanging fruit by saying he would scrap the TFW program.
 
And yeah, maybe it's because like you I have European roots only going back 3-4 generations and can't feel the blood bonding with old stock Canadians
I've thrown that question his way a couple times - he's small enough to still respond to basically anyone who contacts him - and when I bring up the wave of Ukes that helped settle and carve out the prairie, I just get stonewalled. So presumably he considers it regrettable that we were brought over while at the same time recognizing his coalition will be too small if he outright says 'X Y and Z' don't belong here. Smart, to keep his mouth shut; but at the same time, staying silent on the subject is basically an admission that Anglos and Quebecois are not enough on their own for him to accomplish his goals. Otherwise he could safely, explicitly alienate more people.

If you look at coherent ethnic groups from before industrialization the boundary of their solidarity is usually something the size of Ireland, depending on terrain. Even big cohorts like the Han Chinese are artificial amalgams and have internal cliques that jockey with each other and disaggregate repeatedly. It's just not possible to keep a large nation because large nations undergo their own ethnogenesis and differentiation. My point being: Fortissax is cutting himself off at the knees by pretending Canada can be Anglo-Quebec from sea-to-sea. It was kind of that, briefly, but as you said we're already at the point where the Albertans are wondering what they have in common with Ontario besides a Federal government.
 
I'm only vaguely aligned with Poilievre for his proposed 90% reduction in immigration targets.

Otherwise, Canadian politics is a dead horse inhabited by Third World worms.

The only figure who is even vaguely right-wing is Bernier and he's completely ostracised.

We don't have anything like the American and European right-wing.
I definitely agree the PP isn't as conservative or right wing as I, or many others here would like, but I still genuinely support him regardless cuz he's a stepping stone for a more european/american style right wing. Remember that Canada has technically only had a true conservative party on the federal level for about 20 years now, because the old federal PCs were basically a Russia-level controlled opposition party. The CPC being better than the PCs (low bar but still) is probably why I'm more forgiving regarding the CPC and PP's flaws.

Yeah the PPC is kinda cooked as well, especially since they're specifically looking for Indian mps right now, you know, the thing they called the CPC "fake conservatives" over. Also the PPC is basically a retirement fund for Bernier at this point.
 
Did he actually say 90%? He picked the low hanging fruit by saying he would scrap the TFW program.
Yeah this one needs evidence to back up. I've only seen/heard criticism of the TFW program and limiting immigration to housing availability, not outright slashing immigration to 30-50k per year. If Poilievre came out with such a plank he would be rocking a ~5% jump in the polls from fed up Zoomers and younger Millennials alone.
 
PP lost to Justin fucking Trudeau. I can't respect anyone who lost to a Trudeau. The rest of the conservatives are out of touch losers to much like the other major parties in this country.
You really do not know how the Canadian electoral system actually works if you think Pierre losing to Trudeau is Pierre's fault.

When a party gets less than a third of the vote but is still able to form a government, that system is rigged as fuck. Pierre Trudeau engineered our current system to make removing Liberals from power nearly impossible, and Chretien shored it up by not fighting against the Bloc being allowed to exist as a federal party.
 
If you look at coherent ethnic groups from before industrialization the boundary of their solidarity is usually something the size of Ireland, depending on terrain. Even big cohorts like the Han Chinese are artificial amalgams and have internal cliques that jockey with each other and disaggregate repeatedly. It's just not possible to keep a large nation because large nations undergo their own ethnogenesis and differentiation.
This sort of discussion is my jam, since I jell with what you're speaking of here.

Pre-industrial ethnic groups barring a few special cases mostly get hemmed in by geography alongside that sort-of limit of solidarity you mentioned. Ireland is an easy example as a small island, but the biggest unified (so to speak) nations/peoples in common human history outside some special cases are say European nations like France or the extent of pre-WW2 ethnic Germany (+Austria and Luxembourg) and Poland, or the sub-nations and ethnic groups of India pre-British Empire. Even if regional differences inevitably occurred, they still thought of themselves as more or less one nation and country - witness how politically the Holy Roman Empire was frequently called simply "Germany" on maps from the 1500-1800s. Pretty simple so far, right?

Special cases involve what could be called eternal or "civilizational"-states, big enough to be subcontinental in their scope: China Proper (where 99% of Han Chinese then and now live and Chinese dynasties always controlled since Imperial China formed), Iran/Persia (the Iranian Plateau and till recent history also the "Stans"), and the Roman Empire's core borders come its own Imperial period. They too involved easy-to-cross internal geography (Mediterranean Sea, North China Plain, Iranian Plateau's raised nature) and protective external geography (Rhine/Danube/Euphrates and Sahara Desert, Himalayas/Gobi Desert/China Seas, Zagros/Elbruz Mountains) that allowed them to conquer all the rival tribes in the internal part of their geography and gestate a singular nation/people, if with those inevitable regional differences, on a simply much bigger scale...alongside that singular sense of self meaning if split-ups (inevitably, of course!) happened - they WANTED to reunify as fast as possible (if preferably on their region's terms)! And that bigger scale allowed them to frequently absorb and assimilate inevitable invasions from nomadic hordes or would-be conquerers (China's famous for it, but notice Iran simply moved past the Selucid Greeks and kept a cultural cohesion outside Islamic conquest even forming its own sect of it eventually, Eastern Rome was on the way to reconquering the lost west when the Islamic invasions took its attention and so let the west coalesce into truly separate nations). Also note these particular special cases/super-sized states forced standardized forms everywhere: a strong central government over provinces that had some local flexibility, a standardized language in spite of inevitable dialects, a common religion or sub-sect of one, etc. to get past those regionalisms. But that takes time to do even internally. Rome WAS well on its way (look at Romance languages and Catholicism, the Greeks clinging to the "Rhomanoi" name, and the western obsession with "universal empire") but unluckily collapsed at the cusp of that gestation truly taking hold, while China Proper and Iran got past their split-ups in the same time frame to successfully become one land and people, seemingly forever.

The USA's possibly-probably a modernized version of this if you magically made it form in pre-industrial (well, it more or less technically did, see below) or even pre-gunpowder times: east of the Great Plains alone is a China Proper/Roman Empire sized land area already with 70-75% of the population, the Mississippi watershed and all the rivers and canals therein with the Great Lakes/Atlantic Ocean/Gulf of Mexico allowing easy sailing everywhere in the area even outside easy-to-cross-on-foot/horse arable land, and in spite of modern Democrat/leftist subversions America famously forced assimilation when possible on a singular "White" identity with Anglo roots (re: speak English, practice Protestantism) in spite of massive Germanic (German, Nordic) then Catholic immigration (Irish, southern German, Italian) immigration somewhat later into its history, and finally the Revolutionary and Civil Wars gave a powerful impetus to seeing itself as a singular nation. And even if you extend this to gunpowder times as it actually was in reality (which makes steppe invasions a thing of the past) that's easy-to-cross plains and then the South Pass into the west and Pacific Northwest/Columbia River-to-the-Pacific in particular that makes the Rockies suddenly neligible to cross. In the course of the Revolutionary generation's timeline (1750s-1820s), the last one before serious industrialization hit North America, they went from merely living on the Eastern seaboard to settling westward the Plains/Missouri/Sabine/Red River/Ozarks with strong claims on Texas and Oregon partly based on that rather-easy-to-cross geography. And externally, of course, you have the oceans, the Great Lakes and Appalachians, the Chihuahuan and Wild Horse Deserts with the Rio Grande/Gila Rivers, etc. etc. depending on technology level we'd have the USA dealing with here.

Canada? Despite mostly being an "Anglo' country, its main geographic lifeblood is the St. Lawrence and Great Lakes.... inhabited by Quebec, which is separated from the east by the Appalachians anyways. The Maritimes's first Anglos were New England Planters and Newfoundland's always its own thing, Ontario is de-facto a peninsula clinging to the Great Lakes, the Rockies of Canada have no South Pass like the USA does so British Columbia's its own thing, the Plains as you noted had serious Uke settlement (and much more proportionally important than the famous German/Nordic settlers of the American Midwest: there were still tons if not a genuine majority of Old-Stock Americans settling there!). No Mississippi watershed equivalent for easy sailing outside the Great Lakes that don't even have a useful canal or river to Winnipeg, so it's more distance than you think traveling by land to the Prairies even if it's not difficult per se. Canada's not one of those special cases in geography like China Proper/Han China's land area, Iran, the Roman Empire's default borders, or the USA core east of the Plains and definitely east of the Rockies: it's a bunch of different disconnected geographic areas stitched into one country, not even settled by merely one people like the initial core of the USA (re: Anglos) was for eventual gestation. And, as you noted, it doesn't even have an "event" that solidified the people into a coherent identity like the USA did or Rome (say Romulus or the formation of the Republic)/China (Qin Shi Huang uniting the Warring States)/Iran's (Achaemenid Empire) storied histories.

Canada will split someday in the future.

It's just when.
 
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The sheer magnitude of Justin's corruption cannot be allowed to fade away
And unless Pierre actually wants to do something about that it just makes Carney look better by being not him.

This is why he lost the election.
When a party gets less than a third of the vote but is still able to form a government, that system is rigged as fuck.
I'll make sure to remember that if the conservatives ever win a minority government, im sure your values will be as solid as a rock in that situation.
 
the old federal PCs were basically a Russia-level controlled opposition party.
I'm curious about this point, can you go more in depth on it? Is this the same PCs that curb stomped in 1993? How were they controlled opposition? How far back were the PCs controlled opposition?
 
Yeah this one needs evidence to back up. I've only seen/heard criticism of the TFW program and limiting immigration to housing availability, not outright slashing immigration to 30-50k per year. If Poilievre came out with such a plank he would be rocking a ~5% jump in the polls from fed up Zoomers and younger Millennials alone.

The immigration numbers in recent years in total (including economic class, international students, TFWs, refugee claimants, etc.) is vaguely over a 1 million per year, a 90% reduction is basically back to 250,000 annual levels (roughly Chretien and Harper years).

Of course that's wishful thinking because we dont know if Poilievre will actually cut down across all immigration paths, or just economic.

And I'm not in the mood of doing the maths and equations, this has been discussed to death for more than a decade, I ain't scouring the net for all the statistics and videos for this that has come and go for more than 10 years now.

The Canadian immigration discussion's other problem is only focusing on economic migrant numbers, which is officially broadly around 500,000 right now.

And on top of that the pre-existing migrant populations already in Canada, the number of native English speakers and native French speakers in Canada is in decline, because the population is being propped up by foreigners. It's a f*cking disaster.

There should be no acceptable scenario where native speakers are being outpaced by foreigners.

Considering Carney and Trudeau got re-elected it's obvious to me that Canadians are retarded when it comes to immigration policy.
 
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And unless Pierre actually wants to do something about that it just makes Carney look better by being not him.

This is why he lost the election.
The conservatives lost because the average canadian is easily manipulated cattle who believes that the liberal party is their friend
 
The conservatives lost because the average canadian is easily manipulated cattle who believes that the liberal party is their friend

The average Canadian doesn't consider mass immigration as the primary issue because they haven't spent time living in Brampton and Surrey.

And then when they find out it'll be too late because their neighborhood will look and smell like Mumbai.

Too many friends I know who are typical Canadians are either living in White enclaves, or totally into diversity, or think because they have immigrant ancestors they owe their loyalty to immigrants.

And of course many non-White friends are totally supporting immigration because they owe their allegiance to immigrants, not their actual adopted country.

The immigration subject is really simple, all privileges and benefits belong to Canadians, and foreigners are to be auxiliary and not deemed necessary unless otherwise stated.

If a company can't staff their work with majority Canadians, then they have to close, as migrant labour should only be treated as supplementary.
 
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I'm curious about this point, can you go more in depth on it? Is this the same PCs that curb stomped in 1993? How were they controlled opposition? How far back were the PCs controlled opposition?
The PCs were basically a worse version of the neo-cons in the USA, pretty much liberal-lite. They pretty much allowed the liberals to walk all over them and influence institutions. Of course there were few exceptions like Brian Mulroney who destroyed the liberals twice before 1993. Even then they usually implode whenever they win briefly and then lose. It was pretty much a party of Doug Fords. I compare it to Russia because of how they were basically close enough to the liberals for them to not really change anything. For example Mulroney sold off a bunch of crown companies to foreign investers, something you wouldn't be surprised if PET did something similar (Mulroney also introduced GST, which iirc was hated by everyone at the time) . In Russia controlled opp parties like the CPRF or LDPR are super nationalistic just like Putin's party (united russia) and probably would've still invaded ukraine just like putin did.

I'm sure a lot of it was because Canadians are ultra-nationalistic towards the liberal party, but pretty much every election won by the liberal when the PCs were around were majorities for them, while majority govs in general have became pretty rare in the last 20 years, when the CPC formed. Only Harper in 2011 and Trudeau in 2015 were able gain majorities.
Too many friends I know who are typical Canadians are either living in White enclaves, or totally into diversity, or think because they have immigrant ancestors they owe their loyalty to immigrants.
From what I've seen, it's usually the latter for white Canadians. They view dumping millions of third worlders into the country as a way to "atone" for their white and colonial guilt. Also from my experience most liberals still hate third worlders, it's just their "historic guilt" overshadows their racism.
The conservatives lost because the average canadian is easily manipulated cattle who believes that the liberal party is their friend
It's basically ultra-nationalism but for a political party, and ultranationalistic for liberalism.
 
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Crosspost:
 
The average Canadian doesn't consider mass immigration as the primary issue because they haven't spent time living in Brampton and Surrey.

And then when they find out it'll be too late because their neighborhood will look and smell like Mumbai.

Too many friends I know who are typical Canadians are either living in White enclaves, or totally into diversity, or think because they have immigrant ancestors they owe their loyalty to immigrants.

And of course many non-White friends are totally supporting immigration because they owe their allegiance to immigrants, not their actual adopted country.
More polls are showing the majority of Canadians want immigration to be reduced. It’s just too late already.
 
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