Cartoon Industry thread - Showcasing the Spergery of the Animation Industry

[Kyria the Great]

I don't know how anyone said yes to that project, it had absolutely none of the charm or wit of the original Ren and Stimpy on top of just being a giant shitshow from beginning to end.


Needless edginess without any point, gore and violence without any levity, gratuitous sex jokes every 5 seconds, wonky animation, ugly characters, all over the place vocal performance, shameless memberberry rape of previous stuff, painfully unfunny plotlines, and absolutely atrocious pacing.

0/10 complete cancer.

I sincerely believe it's perhaps the worst thing that's ever been animated and got a major budget. I'm not a cartoon sperg but holy shit I don't think it's possible to alog Adult Party Cartoon.

 

[Life is Hell...]

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Are you sure about that...

 

[MagneticTowels]

I’ll be straight up, what we really need is a new renaissance of creator-driven cartoons and bolder, riskier primetime animated shows that don’t just mimic other series or fall into the Vivziepop mold.

SpongeBob shouldn't be the last cartoonist-driven show standing. There should be more shows in that same vein. Cartoons that aren't afraid to take risks and avoid being bland or formulaic.

Primetime animation especially needs to embrace that freedom. Back in the '90s and early 2000s, every major network (except Fox and Comedy Central) wanted their piece of the animated market, but most failed because of low ratings (Mission Hill, Clerks: The Animated Series, The Oblongs, and The God, the Devil, and Bob.)

Indie animation has a lot of potential, but not every animator on YouTube has the same resources or freedom as creators like Vivziepop or Glitch Productions. A lot of them are stuck working within the platform's restrictions. These could range from dealing with strict guidelines, algorithm changes, and monetization hurdles. Plus, putting content behind paywalls isn't the alternative situation and it often just limits access and makes it harder for creators to reach a wider audience.

It’ll probably take a big name like Spielberg or another influential Hollywood figure to spark a new wave of interest and investment in animation. Not every “dark age” lasts forever, but it’s hard to predict how long this one will drag on. The potential is there; it just needs the right kind of push to make it a mainstream priority again.

This dark age will last until people stop ignoring the AI elephant in the room.

 

[Sergeant Major Buzzkill]

I don't know how anyone said yes to that project, it had absolutely none of the charm or wit of the original Ren and Stimpy on top of just being a giant shitshow from beginning to end.

homeboy, its been 22 years. we know.

 

[Colon capital V]

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[Chromeo]

This dark age will last until people stop ignoring the AI elephant in the room.

It needs to be used intelligently, is the issue. When it's not, you get Monster Camp:

It's stylistically pretty, but it's inconsistent. AI isn't at a point where it can replace the work of human artists, you cannot just prompt your way into making quality animation. Even if you use it for tweens or backgrounds, you still need to scrape art that you have the rights to use, and as far as I'm aware there aren't big libraries of art for people to train AIs on. You're just as likely to get a good tween as you are a weird glitchy one that looks like shit, and if you have someone manually checking all of them, you might as well have them just draw the tweens themselves and prevent the issue altogether.

 

[Niggerphobe]

With how many times they threaten certain people in power you got to wonder if they are being watched by the feds

 

[chalkyresidue]

I’ll be straight up, what we really need is a new renaissance of creator-driven cartoons and bolder, riskier primetime animated shows that don’t just mimic other series or fall into the Vivziepop mold.

Agreed. Unfortunately after decades of juvenile animation that insults your intelligence and fails to even entertain you, normies don’t even show up for cartoons. It’s like touching a hot stove. We’ve burned audiences too many times. Not applicable to anime because anime fans can generally still find things they enjoy, so despite all the financial headwinds in tv and film, anime is still going strong. It’s worth observing that Japan, culturally, encourages animators to channel love of the craft and personal pride into pushing through conditions of extreme duress for peanuts. American culture doesn’t reward that.

However this is not to say we don’t have anything working in our favor! We traditionally prioritize taking risks and cutting corners and jackassing our way to the top, against improbable odds—cowboys and rock and roll shit. This works, when it works, because we’re a big country full of rootless individuals inclined towards inventing risky ways to succeed. We break plenty of eggs, but we make memorable omlettes. If America is going to America its way out of the current situation, it needs to try lots of things that are risky.

Which brings me to my utter lack of respect for you, Dr Butt.

Spoiler: 🎩 🎩 🎩

Keep your bitch mouth closed when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

You’re talking about Ralph fucking Bakshi, famously ramshackle independent who cut corners and broke rules and experimented like a motherfucker. No one on earth thinks this guys body of work is untouchable; I’m the first to admit there’s just as much to criticize as their is to praise. The thing is the highs are so high that to a real fan of the medium, the lows barely matter. And he did it all without any significant mainstream support.

Which brings me to you. What’s got your panties in a twist? Are you going to relitigate the validity of rotoscope? Are you looking to argue about the effectiveness of photo collage and video editing in animation? No! Fuckface, you’re trying to prove Bakshi sucks by citing examples of projects he didn’t control:

Hey Good Looking

was such a mess Bakshi disowned it. Here, let me spoon-feed you:

Spoiler: Bakshi’s original HGL is lost media

Per Wikipedia:

The film was first completed in 1975 as a live-action/animated film, in which only the main characters were animated and the rest were portrayed by live actors, but the film's release was pushed back and later postponed indefinitely. Warner Bros. claimed that this version of the film was unsatisfactory; concerns about the backlash against Coonskin were also cited.

In 1982, a very different version of the film was released; much of the live-action sequences were replaced by animation, and dialogue was heavily rewritten and reedited. It was given a limited release in the United States and went largely unnoticed; it performed respectably in foreign markets and developed a cult following. The original version of the film remains unreleased. Bakshi has allegedly disowned the released version.

Cool World - lazy, unfinished-looking designs with dated and awkward posing.

Spoiler: lazy he says wtf movie are you watching

Bakshi's animation was done on the Paramount lot. The film's animators were never given a screenplay, instead told by Bakshi to "do a scene that's funny, whatever you want to do!"
The visual design of the live-action footage was intended to look like "a living, walk-through painting," a visual concept Bakshi had long wanted to achieve. The film's sets were based upon enlargements of designer Barry Jackson's paintings. The animation was strongly influenced by Fleischer Studios (whose cartoons were released by Paramount in the 1930s and 1940s) and Terrytoons (where Bakshi once worked, and whose Mighty Mouse character was also adapted into a series by Bakshi). The artwork by the character Jack Deebs was drawn by underground comix artist Spain Rodriguez.

Spoiler: And no shit it’s a mess. Hence the legendary back story:

Following a career resurgence with Mighty Mouse: The New Adventures in the late 1980s, in 1990, Ralph Bakshi concepted a new film project involving a cartoonist who created a comic book while in prison that makes him an underground "star". The cartoonist would go on to have sexual intercoursewith a femme fatale "doodle" named Debbie Dallas (a play on the title of the pornographic film, Debbie Does Dallas) and father a hybrid child with her; half-cartoon, and half-human. The child, growing up resenting its father for abandoning it, would grow up and go on to make a pilgrimage to the real world to try to hunt down its father and kill him. Ralph pitched the idea as a live-action animated horror film to Paramount Pictures, where he had served as the final head of the studio's animation division some years earlier.

A long-running rumor attached to the film is that when Bakshi discovered that his original concept had been re-written behind his back without his knowledge or permission, he got into a physical altercation with Frank Mancuso Jr. that involved him punching the producer in the mouth. However, in a 2022 phone interview with Kevin E. G. Perry of The Independent, Bakshi put that rumor to rest, saying, "I never punched Frank Mancuso Jr. [...] That was just a rumour. I yelled at him a couple of times, but that wasn't his fault. I like Frank. I never punched him. Can you set that straight?"

Heavy Metal

Spoiler: you are a literal mongoloid

That’s not even Ralph Bakshi in the first place.

Go diddle your twat to the Simpsons and Family Guy if technical perfection matters so goddamn much that it’s all you feel any passion for in this medium. Your petty concerns are kind of thing that made Richard Williams waste his whole fucking career redrawing the Thief and the Cobbler until it was a very, very impressive achievement that the Weinsteins STILL fucking stole and hacked up into horse shit.

No one should ever listen to schmucks like you. You small minded, pedestrian scum.
It’s why all we have to show for ourselves these days is slop.
OHH BUT AT LEAST ITS ON MODEL!!1!11!!!

Whoop de fuckin doo.

 

[KMFDM Sucks]

With how many times they threaten certain people in power you got to wonder if they are being watched by the feds

You'd think so, but they're all so bitter because no one watches them at all.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

"Lel ecksee conservatives can relate to cartman while we enlightened liberals can relate to everyone else!" is an opinion only someone who has never watched the show could have.

I knew a Serebiiforums lolcow who admitted to literally take life advice from South Park and Family Guy, and not once did he say anything close to this level of retardation like Xploshi and Star's there did. It's incredible.

 

[Dr. Butt]

What’s got your panties in a twist?

I told you! I don't like his crappy drawings. Executives meddle with shit until it's ruined all the time. I could never understand how that affects how well someone can draw.

That’s not even Ralph Bakshi in the first place.

That actually was completely retarded. Everyone should laugh at me for that one.

 

[Life is Hell...]

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[cleanerfromvenus]

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not only that, interspecies same sex couple.

 

[Colon capital V]

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Pouring one out to PBS Kids, you were a real one for us tykes when we couldn't afford cable at home, but your time is definitely up when we live in an age of endless entertainment at our fingertips. You did your purpose well, but getting Old Yeller'd is the only appropriate way to go in the Internet age.

 

[Elderly beef taco]

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not only is that massively old news (Arthur ended production in 2022) but the last few seasons were a train wreck. New characters (cajun rabbits with horrible accents) were added and took over most of the plots, the animation was cheap flash trash, and it spent more time remaking old episodes or ripping off The Simpsons weirdly enough.

 

[Brad Armpitt]

I’ll be straight up, what we really need is a new renaissance of creator-driven cartoons and bolder, riskier primetime animated shows that don’t just mimic other series or fall into the Vivziepop mold.

SpongeBob shouldn't be the last cartoonist-driven show standing. There should be more shows in that same vein. Cartoons that aren't afraid to take risks and avoid being bland or formulaic.

Primetime animation especially needs to embrace that freedom. Back in the '90s and early 2000s, every major network (except Fox and Comedy Central) wanted their piece of the animated market, but most failed because of low ratings (Mission Hill, Clerks: The Animated Series, The Oblongs, and The God, the Devil, and Bob.)

Indie animation has a lot of potential, but not every animator on YouTube has the same resources or freedom as creators like Vivziepop or Glitch Productions. A lot of them are stuck working within the platform's restrictions. These could range from dealing with strict guidelines, algorithm changes, and monetization hurdles. Plus, putting content behind paywalls isn't the alternative situation and it often just limits access and makes it harder for creators to reach a wider audience.

It’ll probably take a big name like Spielberg or another influential Hollywood figure to spark a new wave of interest and investment in animation. Not every “dark age” lasts forever, but it’s hard to predict how long this one will drag on. The potential is there; it just needs the right kind of push to make it a mainstream priority again.

We probably won't see anything on the level of Spongebob again in terms of television animation, the big issue with modern artists/animators in the industry is that they've become so used to drawing very simplified yet bland characters that they forgot how to draw anything worthwhile. It's the equivalent of Picasso trying to return to his old realistic painting style but failing time and time again because he spent most of his adult life doing the cubism stuff. Thankfully it seems like internet animators don't have this problem as they aren't confined to industry standards, although there are some who desperately want that kind of blandness (looking at you, LS Mark).

Despite the mixed reception FIXED is getting, Genndy is one of the few actively working with major companies who is able to do his own thing, but even he won't be around forever nor do other artists who want more creator driven shows have that sort of freedom. That's why it's important for aspiring artists to study those who came before them, guys like those from Spumco, showrunners like David Feiss, John Dilworth, Danny Antonucci, anybody with counter cultural roots that made it big. because let's face it, you aren't going to learn much from the current shows that Disney TVA, FOX or Cartoon Network put out. Safeness will lead to the death of entertainment unless someone starts fighting back against it. All it would take to change not just indie animation but animation as a whole overnight is one show that does what Ren & Stimpy or Roger Rabbit did and change the entire way we see cartoons as a whole

 

[Chromeo]

We probably won't see anything on the level of Spongebob again in terms of television animation, the big issue with modern artists/animators in the industry is that they've become so used to drawing very simplified yet bland characters that they forgot how to draw anything worthwhile.

That's why it's important for aspiring artists to study those who came before them, guys like those from Spumco, showrunners like David Feiss, John Dilworth, Danny Antonucci, anybody with counter cultural roots that made it big. because let's face it, you aren't going to learn much from the current shows that Disney TVA, FOX or Cartoon Network put out.

Something that made Spongebob so great that people don't even realize is that David Hillenburg was a marine biologist before making Spongebob. A lot of the coolest shit comes from people who have experiences and lives that influence their work. rank me doomer, but nobody does anything anymore. It's hard to make a cartoon that isn't a gay therapy session when your entire life experience is going to therapy and being gay.

 

[Brad Armpitt]

Something that made Spongebob so great that people don't even realize is that David Hillenburg was a marine biologist before making Spongebob. A lot of the coolest shit comes from people who have experiences and lives that influence their work. rank me doomer, but nobody does anything anymore. It's hard to make a cartoon that isn't a gay therapy session when your entire life experience is going to therapy and being gay.

This is another issue with modern cartoons, nobody has an interesting prior job anymore. These ideas are mostly made by depressed NEETs or HR ladies who don't have anything interesting to talk about. The whole "furry works at a gas station" thing is so prevalent with indie cartoons because they are made by people who watched Regular Show but refused to understand what made it's earlier seasons funny. It wasn't that Mordecai and Rigby were barely paid park volunteers that made the show what it was, it was the crazy shit they ended up getting themselves into.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Something that made Spongebob so great that people don't even realize is that David Hillenburg was a marine biologist before making Spongebob. A lot of the coolest shit comes from people who have experiences and lives that influence their work.

Stephen wanted to teach children about how cool the ocean is, and he luckily knew how to draw on top of that (even went to CalArts back when CalArts was cool). His experience working on Rocko's Modern Life I think definitely helped him be able to write for SpongeBob and do the wacky stuff he wanted to do with it. You watch interviews and Stephen's idealism and optimism is shining there on his face, especially when he talks about anything marine biology and the minute details he put into the character traits to reflect their real-world counterparts (though most of it is played for laughs). He put a piece of his heart into those early seasons and the movie, which is why they're still so beloved to this day because we can literally see that jumping off the page.

These days, creators (if you can call them that) don't have actual passion and love/respect for the medium, they have agendas. Once you have an agenda, you have no room for ambition and creativity.

 

[Chromeo]

This is another issue with modern cartoons, nobody has an interesting prior job anymore.

Part of me wonders if this has to do with how hard it is to get into the animation industry in the modern age. It makes me think of high-level careers like soccer, ballet, or the orchestra; if your parents didn't get you into it as a toddler, you won't get to be involved in higher grade levels, so you won't get scouted for college, and won't be able to go pro as an adult. You basically have to have (your age)+1 years of experience in things like soccer if you ever want the chance to become a professional, and you can't stop even for a minute or someone else will take your place and leave you behind.
Professional animation seems like one of those kind of careers; you have to have connections, money, and a portfolio all by the time you're 17 and graduate high school, or you're never going to go to one of the big schools, so you'll never work at a big studio, never work on a big project, and never get to become a showrunner yourself.
Not to say of course that's the ONLY way to get into any of those professions, there have been outliers, but they're outliers for a reason. So the industry ends up with people who had connections, money, and a portfolio good enough for a big school by the time they were 17, which creates an incestuous pool of people who only care about becoming animators and never did anything else because if they stopped to do anything else, they wouldn't get to become an animator.