Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

[cow-wannabe]

There is a legal definition of consent. Doesn't matter if Chris did everything by his personal definition of consent, even if that's what he was taught it was his whole life. If it doesn't match up with the legal definition, then he has committed a crime.

Your assumption here is that CWC is aware of the lack of match-up and/or has the capacity to recognise the matchup, i.e. he made a choice to live by his definitions not the states. If mental disease/defect prevented CWC recognising that the actions were not consensual then surely it's a different question?

 

[Shaky]

Thank you very much @Alexander Hamilton for starting this thread, and for all the information you have provided about what Chris is likely to face. Also, thank you @Unpleasant, @Frances Kiwi Farmer, @failson-lawguy, and @Bitch Cakes for your contributions to the thread.
While I still don't fully comprehend what is going to happen, you've all helped myself and others understand the legal realities and consequences that are going to occur.
I do have a question though. Do any of you have an idea of how long this process could take before either a plea-deal or sentence is struck? Are we looking at a situation similar to the EB games macing incident where their were long stretches of nothing happening due to continuances, or are thing more likely to progress quicker due to the possible charge(s)? In this screenshot, Chris has been charged with incest. Unfortunately, the Hernico Sheriff's site detailing his arrest record and charge(s) is currently down, so at the moment, we only know that he's been charged with incest.
Thanks.

 

[Cardboard Box Mountain]

Okay well no one will rent to Chris for many reasons, especially with a felony conviction when that takes place, and the restrictions on where a sex offender can live are super strict. And cops constantly check and recheck the address and that the dude actually resides there. I see no way for Chris to secure compliant living conditions. This would cause him to be imprisoned, right?

 

[AmpleApricots]

Ever watched one of these interrogation tapes? They're going to have an absolute field day with him. When they're done he'll probably have confessed to every unsolved crime in the area that happened since the 60s. By the time it all reaches a court it'll be rock solid. I'd almost go as far as to say it isn't really fair to put somebody that mentally disabled to the hyenas like this but what he did was absolutely disgusting and also carefully planned so fuck him.

 

[Shaky]

Ever watched one of these interrogation tapes? They're going to have an absolute field day with him. When they're done he'll probably have confessed to every unsolved crime in the area that happened since the 60s. By the time it all reaches a court it'll be rock solid. I'd almost go as far as to say it isn't really fair to put somebody that mentally disabled to the hyenas like this but what he did was absolutely disgusting and also carefully planned so fuck him.

I hope if the interigation tapes get released, we get a video by JCS - Criminal Psychology.

 

[Coleslaw]

Will there be a Grand Jury?

 

[Coleslaw]

anyone that sex possessed likely has had some pornography of questionable age ranges on his computer as well he could tell them about, or he might admit to all sorts of other deviant behaviors.

You think Chris watched CP?

 

[Coccxys]

either scenario Chris has something to run to the Federal Courts about and a good chance they listen, albiet two very different issues depending on the scenario.

But even then, there's several layers to go through before either side could ask the Supreme Court to hear the case.

The day we see Chrischan's name on a writ of certiorari is the day we have absolute proof that the internet has gone too far and needs to be destroyed for the good of humanity.

 

[Unpleasant]

You think Chris watched CP?

I think anyone who is depraved enough to fuck his own senile and elderly mother has likely consumed every form and type of pornography he could find. It is not hard to find CP. Look at your local jail lists when someone is arrested for possession of it and find their mug shots. They won't look like particularly internet savvy people, and they'll often be quite old. Which is most of the reason they get caught.

 

[Coleslaw]

I think anyone who is depraved enough to fuck his own senile and elderly mother has likely consumed every form and type of pornography he could find. It is not hard to find CP. Look at your local jail lists when someone is arrested for possession of it and find their mug shots. They won't look like particularly internet savvy people, and they'll often be quite old. Which is most of the reason they get caught.

For every CP watcher that gets caught how many are still at large?

 

[Random Internet Person]

Reading the OP, makes a lot of sense. As for the part about fairness of the process keeping people from knowing about the story of Chris…makes sense, even if it takes away from potential humor. Honestly, I think the easiest way to introduce Chris Chan is probably Fred Knudsen’s Down The Rabbit Hole, even if that’s just scratching the surface. Don’t expose them to too much at once.

 

[Wormy]

He fucked his mom. This is how pathetic Virginia is. They can't even get that basic fact right. It's fucking Virginia. Probably half the state is guilty of that.

Depends on the county.

 

[Master Miller]

doubtful considering the high bar that is a defendant proving they were too insane to understand that what they were doing was wrong or that they literally couldn't resist the impulse to do it. This would entirely have to be on chris to prove, and from text messages that could be subpoena'd that we already know about, he was fully aware of the fact that what he was doing was wrong, attempts to conceal the act, lies regarding it, etc. Best case for Chris is a diminished capacity guilty rather than NGRI.

Agreed, Chris clearly demonstrated that he did not want it shared, showing that there was an awareness that he was doing something wrong.

His delusional beliefs don't affect his capacity and he showed intent over a period of time despite Barb being resistant initially. He is aware rape is illegal and that incest is illegal. It can't be pinned on a delusional belief or transient period of lacking capacity. His autism can't be used as a defence, unless he pushed hard for diminished responsibility.

I could see him receiving psychiatric treatment or social placement after some sort of sentencing. However, it would be difficult to justify a hospital order as there is no condition that can be treated that could be deemed responsible for a theoretical index offense.

 

[Learned Hand]

Agreed, Chris clearly demonstrated that he did not want it shared, showing that there was an awareness that he was doing something wrong.

His delusional beliefs don't affect his capacity and he showed intent over a period of time despite Barb being resistant initially. He is aware rape is illegal and that incest is illegal. It can't be pinned on a delusional belief or transient period of lacking capacity. His autism can't be used as a defence, unless he pushed hard for diminished responsibility.

I could see him receiving psychiatric treatment or social placement after some sort of sentencing. However, it would be difficult to justify a hospital order as there is no condition that can be treated that could be deemed responsible for a theoretical index offense.

I mentioned this in a post in the megathread here:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/chris-has-been-arrested.96810/page-170#post-9611504

Suffice to say I am in full agreement with you. Concealment of an act, as Chris has done throughout this process regarding his sexual relationship with Barb, is one of the most telling and easiest ways in court to demonstrate whether a defendant understands the nature of their actions and their crime. In our case here, Chris has used deception from the onset, only telling someone he trusted implicitly with what was going on, and has gone so far in the past as to purposefully obfuscate Barb's identity, key facts, or changed details to throw people off the scent. (This is assuming a trial, which I still hold is highly unlikely).

These are not the actions of an individual who has trouble conceptualizing their behavior. It is why I insist NGRI is out, and why I would argue even diminished capacity on some elements is probably out.

 

[ANobody]

Not public defender, and not America, but I can share my two bits, why not. blah blah blah not ur lawyer not advice etc etc

It would suck fucking big time. I'm not going to get into the particularities of the case, cuz as far as criminal cases go, I've worked with fellas who were in even more legally indefensible positions than Chris is in right now; the fact that the best optionis to admit guilt and hope for a nice deal isn't even that bad from a lawyer perspective, that is just the job. You don't expect to win everything.

The main problem is Chris as an individual, and having to work with him, oh my god I'd drink myself to death. I've worked with clients who were absolute boneheads before (one who comes to mind was this dude embroiled in vexatious litigation against his wife. love that guy), and it is the most unplleasant and constantly baffling experience ever. The layperson doesn't know the law, and oftentimes - after some googling - thinks they know it better than their lawyers, and because they essentially can determine the trajectory of their case, they'll kneecap themselves so often. Chris no doubt will be the kind of client with that uncanny 6th sense for making the decisions most prejudicial to their case. That said, I highly doubt Chris would insist going to trial
And then comes the client interactions; imagine talking to Chris to try and gauge the exact series of events, and timeline and the approach one should take. At this point, most of the sentences Chris constructs can barely be considered english; imagine some 50 year old PD trying to decipher what the fuck a "magichan sonichu" is, or being told that "the CPU goddesses" led Chris to Barb. I've never worked with mentally ill clients, so no doubt there are other lawyers can deal with it better than I could, but safe to imagine that for most, it would be a nightmare.

On the bright side, it would make for one hell of a weird story to tell down the line.

Waith yeah thats an excellent point.are there any provisos for cross examining someone who's clearly delusional? Would Chris's testimony even be admissible after he tards out and starts screeching for his polyamorous gaggle of psychic furries to enact the dimensional merge?

 

[Unpleasant]

For every CP watcher that gets caught how many are still at large?

Lots.

Consider the circumstances to get caught:

1) it was located incidentally to some other act.

2) it was located on a shared computer or device (which then introduces questions of ownership and who is liable, as it can be planted).

3) a victim implicates a content creator or distributor.

4) physical photographs are located and reported.

5) honeypot

Those are some of the more common but not an exhaustive list of ways. Number 1 is the big one- CP gets found a lot when serving a warrant when under suspicion of another (often sex offense related) crime. Those who commit one sort of act of depravity are much more likely to commit others. As a result it is frequently almost an add-on charge- you might be looking into horny grandpa fucking his granddaughter, get a warrant for his computer, and theres a folder full of CP and jailbait on his desktop.

On a smaller scale 3 occurs more when the hypothetical victim reports that horny grandpa or whoever was taking photographs of her in the shower or something. If he has shared them and is distributing them, that can be much more serious.

5 is a good one but often a dateline style honeypot will rely on the creep taking an actual action in the real world- you want them to try and meet with the glownigger who is baiting them so you can nail them on solicitation charges. You may end up receiving child porn from the creep in the process, as he will describe what he likes or his preferences, but you'll certainly search his premises and computers afterwards as you know he was using electronic mediums for attempted child sex acts.

The sort of person who obtains it from secure sources, uses it for personal """enjoyment""", and doesnt otherwise act on it? They are very unlikely to ever get caught until they go further or personally victimize someone. Those who aren't acting are most of them, either due to social awkwardness or lack of nerve. Which is a good thing, I guess? But if they socialize with other enthusiasts they may get narced on at some point, so many are very wary of it.

Waith yeah thats an excellent point.are there any provisos for cross examining someone who's clearly delusional? Would Chris's testimony even be admissible after he tards out and starts screeching for his polyamorous gaggle of psychic furries to enact the dimensional merge?

If it ever gets to the point of a trial no sane defense attorney will put Chris on the stand, so it is irrelevant. I doubt again highly that this would ever reach the trial phase. This is an easy plea for sure with no easy defense otherwise.

 

[Fapcop]

One thing is for sure.

There’s no doubt that Chris will manage to fuck himself long and hard, from the moment the police detective steps into the interview room.

He won’t even need to use the ol’ “I don’t think you’re a bad person, I just want your side of the story”-ruse.

Chris with his bizarre understanding of honesty (“Honesty is good, so telling strangers I shit myself is even better!”) will undoubtably just start babbling away, leaving a stunned detective thinking, if not saying out loud “WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS?!”

He won’t do himself any favors on the witness stand either.

If the prosecutor has half a brain, he’ll have a female prosecutor with a kind demeanor question Chris. Who’ll no doubt see this as an occasion to impress an attractive boyfriend-free girl with his sexual prowess and skills.

I can picture his public defenders head on the desk, as Chris smugly starts explaining how he “reached his mothers G spot” (after some pain and experimentation), something “no other man has ever previously achieved”.

 

[Rorschach Test]

Okay, changing topic from the capacity issue (fascinating though it is) — What are the chances we get to see the police custody interrogation video?

Chris is way too cocky to shut up and ask for a lawyer. Part of me suspects the cops were slowing down and letting Chris interact with the killstream onlookers in hopes of them saying something incriminating. I can’t imagine the kind of shit Chris will tell cops over the course of an hour or more (if they don’t zone out listening to the dimensional merge explained).

What is Virginia law regarding publication of recorded interrogations? Can we expect it to be presented to the jury? Would it be made public only after a plea deal or trial is set?

I am assuming we only got the Nikolas Cruz interrogation because Florida has the “sunshine” law that make all kinds of info related to charged and indicted individuals accessible through a FOIA-like mechanism. Any chance Virginia has something similar for situations like these?

 

[Learned Hand]

Waith yeah thats an excellent point.are there any provisos for cross examining someone who's clearly delusional? Would Chris's testimony even be admissible after he tards out and starts screeching for his polyamorous gaggle of psychic furries to enact the dimensional merge?

I do not believe Chris would be placed on the stand unless absolutely necessary. It is rare defendants ever do; they have a (not absolute right anymore, thanks SCOTUS, but very compelling protections) regarding not testifying if they do not want to. Only in rare circumstances can they be compelled to do so. I cannot think of any competent counsel putting Chris on the stand if it came to that.

 

[Rorschach Test]

If it ever gets to the point of a trial no sane defense attorney will put Chris on the stand, so it is irrelevant.

I cannot think of any competent counsel putting Chris on the stand if it came to that.

This all assumes Chris does not make the brilliant decision to represent themselves pro se.