Christmas at 14BC?

[He Sets Me On Fire]

A little late to the party, but Marv's last comment above, I think, indicates another reason why Chris doesn't "just stand up" to Barb.

Chris is stupid, autistic, short-sighted, and has the critical thinking skills of a half-eaten donut, all true. But there's one issue that I think is missed out on. We see Chris as a pompous, egotistical moron who thinks the world of himself. We are well-justified in this perception. But the aspect that we tend to leave out is Chris's woeful sense of dependence. This may be written off as laziness - again, a fair assessment, given that he's a slothful lardass who can't even be counted on to draw a lousy comic page on time. But it goes a little deeper than that.

There have been times when Chris has openly admitted his inability to handle things on his own. A perpetual example of this would be his numerous "I'm lonely! I'm lonesome!" laments. While we may dismiss these as nothing more than "Fatty has a tiny, bent boner, and no female to poke it into", the simple truth of the matter is that Chris has no social life whatsoever. I, a hermit curmudgeon, have friends. I can find a group to hang out with when I want to, be they folks I know, or random people I meet in a pub. Chris, however, doesn't have the social ability to introduce himself to strangers, let alone maintain a friendship. Certainly, while he is a selfish jerk who mistakes friendship for servitude, there are those who are far more egotistical - hell, even downright abusive - who still have people to talk to and hang out with. His lamentations to the Internet that he has no offline friends may be a "serve me!" whine on its surface, but its also an admission, however unintentional, that Chris cannot make friendships or secure a social life on his own.

Was Borb deliberately trying to make Chris entirely dependent on them, or was it neglect that made Chris into the desperately needy person he is today? Whatever the answer, it's clear that Chris grew up with the notion that others were needed in order to make his life work, and that he seemingly had no problem with that. Initially, that is. And then the world started turning its back on him.

So, HSMOF, bring us back to your point: Why doesn't Chris just stand up to Barb?

Simple - he's just too damn dependent. The idea that Barb would switch locks on him is ludicrous. From a survival perspective, she needs him more than he needs her. But Chris was brought p with the notion that he cannot survive without a mother figure, or at the very least, would be subject to horrible loneliness without one. Thus, he is emotionally dependent on her. If Bob were still alive to convince Chris otherwise, perhaps he wouldn't be so fearful of crossing her. Alas, Chris was brought up to rely on others in more ways than one, and so now, he's seeing the results. It ain't pretty, as you can well see.

 

[CWCissey]

Barb choked on a turkey bone at the soup kitchen.

 

[GFYS]

So until group home saga happens lets all sit back and watch Chris freak out like normal over ridiculous shit. Cause let's face it, till group home saga, none of us are going to fix the guy with our super "legitimate" methods

I just don't see that happening. At least, it's a real long shot. Chris doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for being put into a group home against his will, nor would he willingly admit himself to one while adhering to their rules. There are people far more disabled than Chris, who aren't committed to a group home.

I think Chris could be trained to mimic independence, like a dog. Drill a behavior into his head, until it becomes a mechanical routine... Basically Pavlovian conditioning. There would be little-to-no conscious thought, just a conditioned response to a spicific set of stimulus. However, that would require a person with the necessary authority to force him to learn these responses, and that opportunity is loooong gone except in a prison setting.

Zoltar sees bad things ahead for Chris, and one of them is the Prison Saga. My parlay bet is that Anna will somehow be involved in the commission of the crime, or his conviction.

 

[sparklemilhouse]

Plus it's not really feasible because Barb would be right next to him. He'd (reasonably) worry about waking her up in the process of coming or going, plus there's always the possibility of her waking up and him being gone.

I meant before barb kept him hostage. I wondered if there was a specific incident that made barb put him under "house arrest", but I believe I asked that once and we don't know that answer.

 

[Marvin]

So until group home saga happens lets all sit back and watch Chris freak out like normal over ridiculous shit. Cause let's face it, till group home saga, none of us are going to fix the guy with our super "legitimate" methods

I think Chris could be trained to mimic independence, like a dog. Drill a behavior into his head, until it becomes a mechanical routine... Basically Pavlovian conditioning. There would be little-to-no conscious thought, just a conditioned response to a spicific set of stimulus. However, that would require a person with the necessary authority to force him to learn these responses, and that opportunity is loooong gone except in a prison setting.

This is dead on, except that Barb totally has the authority to train Chris, she just doesn't bother to.

Plus it's not really feasible because Barb would be right next to him. He'd (reasonably) worry about waking her up in the process of coming or going, plus there's always the possibility of her waking up and him being gone.

I meant before barb kept him hostage. I wondered if there was a specific incident that made barb put him under "house arrest", but I believe I asked that once and we don't know that answer.

Again, Barb doesn't have Chris under house arrest. I must emphasize that there is no logical motivation behind what she's doing now. I mean, if there was, she could be letting Chris sleep on his own and still maintain a house arrest setup. Barb's honestly just nuts. She's hoarding Chris like he's a teddy bear she wants to snuggle with as she falls asleep.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Was Borb deliberately trying to make Chris entirely dependent on them, or was it neglect that made Chris into the desperately needy person he is today? Whatever the answer, it's clear that Chris grew up with the notion that others were needed in order to make his life work

That's the desire for "normalcy". Normal people have friends, so Chris wants friends. Normal men have sweet-hearts, so Chris wants one too.

Problem is, no-one ever acknowledged that Chris isn't normal (unless Bob really "negotiated" the gal-pals' assistance for his tardson. Oh, and Barb dressed him in court jester clothes so people would know that Chris is a tard).

I don't think Chris is really lonesome the way someone with working social skills is lonesome. He can't be missing social interaction now because he never had any. He doesn't really yearn for company because company would just mean less freedom and more of da stress. He's great on his own; he can squat in his own filth and play vidya, that's all he wants from life.

Oh, and he wants to be "normal", or rather: he wants to be what he considers to be "normal". He wants to be admired and get laid.
When he was still allowed in the Game Place, he could pretend to be an authority on kids' games, boss little kids around and grope Megan. He published Sonichu for the explicit purpose of fame, fortune and riches.

Now his terrible life-style seems to have pretty much eliminated his libido. No more groping or jumping through hoops for a chance of china.
Sonichu has failed him. Now we're supposed to admire his genius-like lego skillz.

 

[A-Stump]

I doubt Chris actually made Sonichu to do anything but amuse himself. Sure he would say he was going to put out Sonichu products but I think that was after people were constantly bugging him about it. That's kind of why the whole thing where he thought he was going to sell a game idea to Nintendo was never amusing to me. He seemed halfhearted and like he was just going along with what other people wanted him to do.

 

[Coldgrip]

Zoltar sees bad things ahead for Chris, and one of them is the Prison Saga. My parlay bet is that Anna will somehow be involved in the commission of the crime, or his conviction.

Beyond her egging him on with her usual cheers of "Yeah, you tell 'em/go get 'em Chris!" I really don't see her being a part of anything that would eventually lead him to be arrested.

Now Barb on the other hand I think will play a bigger role in sending her little autistic gofer to jail, assuming he doesn't screw himself over first.

 

[MysticMisty]

So until group home saga happens lets all sit back and watch Chris freak out like normal over ridiculous shit. Cause let's face it, till group home saga, none of us are going to fix the guy with our super "legitimate" methods

I just don't see that happening. At least, it's a real long shot. Chris doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for being put into a group home against his will, nor would he willingly admit himself to one while adhering to their rules. There are people far more disabled than Chris, who aren't committed to a group home.

This. Chris is too high functioning to be placed in a group home against his will, even if Barb dies tomorrow. And Barb (or Bob before he died) would never want him to leave home and live with other slow-in-da-minds either. The only way he'd be made to live in a group home at this point is if he committed more crimes, sent to court, and a judge determined him unfit to live by himself/with Barb.

 

[Tubular Monkey]

This. Chris is too high functioning to be placed in a group home against his will, even if Barb dies tomorrow. And Barb (or Bob before he died) would never want him to leave home and live with other slow-in-da-minds either. The only way he'd be made to live in a group home at this point is if he committed more crimes, sent to court, and a judge determined him unfit to live by himself/with Barb.

I don't think Barb cares one little bit about what happens to Chris when she dies. Her mind is probably constantly fantasizing about the number of good will stores in Heaven.

Honestly though, deep down, I think Barb's rationale is, "When I'm gone, that stupid shithead will be someone else's problem."

 

[A-Stump]

But Barb won the 'Mother of the Year' award. She has never won it since but that still means something, surely

 

[MysticMisty]

I didn't mean when she dies though. Just that regardless if Barb is alive or dead Chris isn't in any circumstance to be sent to a group home at this time, and won't be unless it's a court order. And that would require another October 28th incident as it were. Really, Chris isn't going to ever leave that house. It's pretty sad, but he can't even comprehend a life outside of the place anyways at this point.

 

[Horde Prime]

A little late to the party, but Marv's last comment above, I think, indicates another reason why Chris doesn't "just stand up" to Barb.

Chris is stupid, autistic, short-sighted, and has the critical thinking skills of a half-eaten donut, all true. But there's one issue that I think is missed out on. We see Chris as a pompous, egotistical moron who thinks the world of himself. We are well-justified in this perception. But the aspect that we tend to leave out is Chris's woeful sense of dependence. This may be written off as laziness - again, a fair assessment, given that he's a slothful lardass who can't even be counted on to draw a lousy comic page on time. But it goes a little deeper than that.

There have been times when Chris has openly admitted his inability to handle things on his own. A perpetual example of this would be his numerous "I'm lonely! I'm lonesome!" laments. While we may dismiss these as nothing more than "Fatty has a tiny, bent boner, and no female to poke it into", the simple truth of the matter is that Chris has no social life whatsoever. I, a hermit curmudgeon, have friends. I can find a group to hang out with when I want to, be they folks I know, or random people I meet in a pub. Chris, however, doesn't have the social ability to introduce himself to strangers, let alone maintain a friendship. Certainly, while he is a selfish jerk who mistakes friendship for servitude, there are those who are far more egotistical - hell, even downright abusive - who still have people to talk to and hang out with. His lamentations to the Internet that he has no offline friends may be a "serve me!" whine on its surface, but its also an admission, however unintentional, that Chris cannot make friendships or secure a social life on his own.

Was Borb deliberately trying to make Chris entirely dependent on them, or was it neglect that made Chris into the desperately needy person he is today? Whatever the answer, it's clear that Chris grew up with the notion that others were needed in order to make his life work, and that he seemingly had no problem with that. Initially, that is. And then the world started turning its back on him.

So, HSMOF, bring us back to your point: Why doesn't Chris just stand up to Barb?

Simple - he's just too damn dependent. The idea that Barb would switch locks on him is ludicrous. From a survival perspective, she needs him more than he needs her. But Chris was brought p with the notion that he cannot survive without a mother figure, or at the very least, would be subject to horrible loneliness without one. Thus, he is emotionally dependent on her. If Bob were still alive to convince Chris otherwise, perhaps he wouldn't be so fearful of crossing her. Alas, Chris was brought up to rely on others in more ways than one, and so now, he's seeing the results. It ain't pretty, as you can well see.

I think you raise some valid points. Another thing I'm reminded of is a term my own psychiatrist used one time which... I can't remember. But the meaning was basically that people raised in a certain life situation/environment with little to no life experience outside of that environment often cannot even fathom changing their life situation as a possibility. My psychiatrist used it as an example of how poverty often perpetuates across generations. I believe this is kind of the situation Chris is in. The odds would be stacked against anyone to be able to break free of the kind of environment he lives in. Add to it his own mental and emotional issues and I just don't think he can visualize a world where he could stand up to or break free of Barb. If such ideas even cross his mind I imagine they are quickly pushed aside out of fear of the unknown. My .02.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

I think you raise some valid points. Another thing I'm reminded of is a term my own psychiatrist used one time which... I can't remember. But the meaning was basically that people raised in a certain life situation/environment with little to no life experience outside of that environment often cannot even fathom changing their life situation as a possibility. My psychiatrist used it as an example of how poverty often perpetuates across generations. I believe this is kind of the situation Chris is in. The odds would be stacked against anyone to be able to break free of the kind of environment he lives in. Add to it his own mental and emotional issues and I just don't think he can visualize a world where he could stand up to or break free of Barb. If such ideas even cross his mind I imagine they are quickly pushed aside out of fear of the unknown. My .02.

Learned Helplessness?

 

[Resetchu]

Again, Barb doesn't have Chris under house arrest. I must emphasize that there is no logical motivation behind what she's doing now. I mean, if there was, she could be letting Chris sleep on his own and still maintain a house arrest setup. Barb's honestly just nuts. She's hoarding Chris like he's a teddy bear she wants to snuggle with as she falls asleep.

i think Barb may be afraid of just die suddenly and be alone, we may never know how Bob died but i'm pretty sure it left a mark on Barb who now sees Chris as an "emergency" phone or something like that, dunno, i see her more scared of being alone than just insane.

btw, hi, first post from a long time follower of Chris.

 

[Marvin]

Again, Barb doesn't have Chris under house arrest. I must emphasize that there is no logical motivation behind what she's doing now. I mean, if there was, she could be letting Chris sleep on his own and still maintain a house arrest setup. Barb's honestly just nuts. She's hoarding Chris like he's a teddy bear she wants to snuggle with as she falls asleep.

i think Barb may be afraid of just die suddenly and be alone, we may never know how Bob died but i'm pretty sure it left a mark on Barb who now sees Chris as an "emergency" phone or something like that, dunno, i see her more scared of being alone than just insane.

btw, hi, first post from a long time follower of Chris.

Again, she could let him sleep on his own if that was the case.

 

[Horde Prime]

I think you raise some valid points. Another thing I'm reminded of is a term my own psychiatrist used one time which... I can't remember. But the meaning was basically that people raised in a certain life situation/environment with little to no life experience outside of that environment often cannot even fathom changing their life situation as a possibility. My psychiatrist used it as an example of how poverty often perpetuates across generations. I believe this is kind of the situation Chris is in. The odds would be stacked against anyone to be able to break free of the kind of environment he lives in. Add to it his own mental and emotional issues and I just don't think he can visualize a world where he could stand up to or break free of Barb. If such ideas even cross his mind I imagine they are quickly pushed aside out of fear of the unknown. My .02.

Learned Helplessness?

Hmmm... that's not ringing a bell, though it does sound like an apt description of CWC.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

I'm pretty sure Life Alert and a visiting home health aide would be better for Barb and easier on Chris than forcing him to live with Barb. I doubt a home health aide could do anything about the hoard, but he or she could strongly recommend getting help and would clearly know that Barb is mentally unwell. Unfortunately, I remember someone who seemed knowledgeable on hoarders say that hoarders are often ashamed of their hoard, and of course the fewer people who know of Barb's problem, the better.

I agree that Barb doesn't want to let Chris go off and live his own life and be his own person. He should have moved out to a studio apartment and been on his own years ago. Then again, OPL has had to endure nearly 32 years of emotional manipulation and abuse from Snorlax.

 

[Holdek]

I may only be a welder but I move to have his "High Functioning Autistic" diagnosis struck from canon.

"High Functioning" isn't an actual diagnosis now, but I don't know if it was when Chris was diagnosed or not. It may have always been a non-clinical term.

Many people with worse handy-capps have gone onto lead full, happy and productive lives.

The thing about those success stories is, that most of those people (if any) didn't get there on their own. They got real genuine help from their family. Chris has never had that luxury.

Like, people keep bringing this point about how Chris could totally live a happy and productive life "if he just wanted to and wasn't such a lazy ass", but they forget that the vast majority of Autistics still live less productive lives than regular people and virtually none of the success stories got there on their own. So I really don't understand why people expect Chris to achieve things that probably even the savants couldn't.

I can see where you are coming from here but how many folks have tried to reach out to Chris, how many white knight emails, phone calls and letters tried to offer real help?

Each one was not just turned down by Chris but spurned by him; as if offering advice to him is the grossest insult you could offer.

I was once a white knight (kinda still am in a way) thought maybe I could talk some sense into that thick skull of his but boy was I wrong! The combination of stupidity and ego makes it impossible to reason with Chris on any grounds. Ask around to those who have had direct contact with him, listen to the Alec and Julie calls and see how Chris always takes the easiest way out. Effort is an anathema to him, its a choice he makes every day and yes it is influenced by his condition and his upbringing but he is still a functional 30 year old adult who choose to wallow in his misery.

Don't pity him instead condemn him for his attitudes and behaviors. The last thing he needs is another ass-patter.

I wonder if Clyde would have ever come into being if Chris had just taken one piece of Vivian's advice?

And yeah, absolving people of responsibility, even if Chris' is more limited than others, is well-intentioned but ultimately patronizing. Bob and Barb were bad influences and his genes are fucked but Bob didn't bring back home North Korean style isolation and brainwashing techniques. For example I'm pretty sure Chris wasn't "trained" to go tom girl by his parents.

 

[3Yikes]

Many people with worse handy-capps have gone onto lead full, happy and productive lives.

The thing about those success stories is, that most of those people (if any) didn't get there on their own. They got real genuine help from their family. Chris has never had that luxury.

Like, people keep bringing this point about how Chris could totally live a happy and productive life "if he just wanted to and wasn't such a lazy ass", but they forget that the vast majority of Autistics still live less productive lives than regular people and virtually none of the success stories got there on their own. So I really don't understand why people expect Chris to achieve things that probably even the savants couldn't.

I can see where you are coming from here but how many folks have tried to reach out to Chris, how many white knight emails, phone calls and letters tried to offer real help?

Autistic success stories didn't get help from internet dweebs. They had family hold their hand and were forced and conditioned in to a more productive life. LIke that one guy on this forum who talked about that little brother of his and how he would force him out of stores screaming and sperging out loud.

Really, the actual help Chris has gotten is 0.

The last thing he needs is another ass-patter.

Nothing I've said is an ass-patt. Realizing that there are things that are simply out of his ability and recognizing that people like him don't just "grow the fuck up" =/= ass-patt.

Seriously, a person can't say anything that isn't "Chris is a complete moron who deserves X and Y" on this forum without being accused of being Anna