Christmas at 14BC?

[A-Stump]

Some people on this forum has autism themselves and can't comprehend that Chris is different than they are. Also, you can tell who has the 'tism when the discussion turns to it.

Thems facts

 

[Marvin]

Your argument doesn't work precisely because Chris isn't an autistic that "can can barely talk and wipe [his] own ass."

That was an extreme example I gave, but it's still the same situation with the less severe cases. People like Chris plain and simply don't and can't help themselves. They GET help. Real help, not just advise and suggestions from internet dwellers.

I really don't understand why you keep denying this stuff. It doesn't really change anything, besides demonstrate how unreasonable it is to expect Chris to do things that simply don't ever happen.

You seem to think that people who get help usually have it forced upon them. A person, especially one in Chris' condition, usually must make the choice to seek, or at the very least, accept, help.

Chris probably won't do that, but it's the only way it can happen, and he's ultimately responsible for making the choice, one way or the other.

No, as far as Chris goes, Chris' willingness to accept help is irrelevant. Help will only work for Chris if it's forced on him.

 

[Holdek]

A little late to the party, but Marv's last comment above, I think, indicates another reason why Chris doesn't "just stand up" to Barb.

Chris is stupid, autistic, short-sighted, and has the critical thinking skills of a half-eaten donut, all true. But there's one issue that I think is missed out on. We see Chris as a pompous, egotistical moron who thinks the world of himself. We are well-justified in this perception. But the aspect that we tend to leave out is Chris's woeful sense of dependence. This may be written off as laziness - again, a fair assessment, given that he's a slothful lardass who can't even be counted on to draw a lousy comic page on time. But it goes a little deeper than that.

There have been times when Chris has openly admitted his inability to handle things on his own. A perpetual example of this would be his numerous "I'm lonely! I'm lonesome!" laments. While we may dismiss these as nothing more than "Fatty has a tiny, bent boner, and no female to poke it into", the simple truth of the matter is that Chris has no social life whatsoever. I, a hermit curmudgeon, have friends. I can find a group to hang out with when I want to, be they folks I know, or random people I meet in a pub. Chris, however, doesn't have the social ability to introduce himself to strangers, let alone maintain a friendship. Certainly, while he is a selfish jerk who mistakes friendship for servitude, there are those who are far more egotistical - hell, even downright abusive - who still have people to talk to and hang out with. His lamentations to the Internet that he has no offline friends may be a "serve me!" whine on its surface, but its also an admission, however unintentional, that Chris cannot make friendships or secure a social life on his own.

Was Borb deliberately trying to make Chris entirely dependent on them, or was it neglect that made Chris into the desperately needy person he is today? Whatever the answer, it's clear that Chris grew up with the notion that others were needed in order to make his life work, and that he seemingly had no problem with that. Initially, that is. And then the world started turning its back on him.

So, HSMOF, bring us back to your point: Why doesn't Chris just stand up to Barb?

Simple - he's just too damn dependent. The idea that Barb would switch locks on him is ludicrous. From a survival perspective, she needs him more than he needs her. But Chris was brought p with the notion that he cannot survive without a mother figure, or at the very least, would be subject to horrible loneliness without one. Thus, he is emotionally dependent on her. If Bob were still alive to convince Chris otherwise, perhaps he wouldn't be so fearful of crossing her. Alas, Chris was brought up to rely on others in more ways than one, and so now, he's seeing the results. It ain't pretty, as you can well see.

I do NOT need a caretaker; I am capable of taking care of myself. I am 28 years old with a High School Diploma, a Degree and a Certificate in Computer Aided Drafting and Design (CADD), and my grades were on Honor Roll throughout, and I made the Dean's List at Piedmont Virginia Community College.

You seem to think that people who get help usually have it forced upon them. A person, especially one in Chris' condition, usually must make the choice to seek, or at the very least, accept, help.

Most of them don't really get "forced" in to it, rather they get help early, but, really, at that point it's not like they have a real choice to make. The really bad examples that people bring up as a counter point to Chris sure as hell dont seem like they got help on their own.

And, again, most of the help is direct and comes from active family members, not from internet idiots. Marvin has said that Chris will listen to brab if she ever started helping him.

Chris is incapable, plain and simple. Deal with it.

and he's ultimately responsible for making the choice, one way or the other

It's interesting how people constantly say that Chris is 10 years old mentally, yet expect him to be responcible for things like this. It's either Barb, or somebody else. He has to be "forced" in to it, one way or the other.

Nah, not really.

Chris has been recognized as a legally a competent adult. The professional psychiatric opinion that we have had access to indicates that that he has autism and anxiety, but is not a mental invalid.

 

[3Yikes]

Chris has been recognized as a legally a competent adult. The professional psychiatric opinion that we have had access to indicates that that he has autism and anxiety, but is not a mental invalid.

And yet most autistics are also not mental invalids, but still require constant assistance to live what is still less fulfilling lives than regular people.

Really, how many examples of people like Chris can you give me, who managed to do what you expect out of him? By being "willing to change and accepting help", who did it without direct intervention by family/institutions?

If Chris really is an autistic manchild, then the only way he would change, would be to do exactly what one would do to a child - grabbing him by the hand and enforcing order and direction on him, until he internalizes it, or in his case, turns it in to another routine.

No, as far as Chris goes, Chris' willingness to accept help is irrelevant. Help will only work for Chris if it's forced on him.

Exactly.

 

[Holdek]

Chris has been recognized as a legally a competent adult. The professional psychiatric opinion that we have had access to indicates that that he has autism and anxiety, but is not a mental invalid.

And yet most autistics are also not mental invalids, but still require constant assistance to live what is still less fulfilling lives than regular people.

Really, how many examples of people like Chris can you give me, who managed to do what you expect out of him? By being "willing to change and accepting help", who did it without direct intervention by family/institutions?

If Chris really is an autistic manchild, then the only way he would change, would be to do exactly what one would do to a child - grabbing him by the hand and enforcing order and direction on him, until he internalizes it, or in his case, turns it in to another routine.

He's not actually a child. We call him a "manchild" because its a way of making fun of the way he lives his life.

He's actually an adult who has to make the choice of taking that first step, but he's refused to do so time and time again. We can only hope that as his illusions continue to be shattered that he tries a different way.

 

[CWCissey]

He's not actually a child. We call him a "manchild" because its a way of making fun of the way he lives his life.

He's actually an adult who has to make the choice of taking that first step, but he's refused to do so time and time again. We can only hope that as his illusions continue to be shattered that he tries a different way.

I don't know Holdek, as far as I'm concerned a person is still a child until they are self-sufficient and seeing as Chris has never been so then he is still a child.

Adults forced to move back into their parents houses are a whole different kettle of fish by the way as more often than not, they're victims of the system more than from their own doing.

 

[Uzumaki]

He's not actually a child. We call him a "manchild" because its a way of making fun of the way he lives his life.

He's actually an adult who has to make the choice of taking that first step, but he's refused to do so time and time again. We can only hope that as his illusions continue to be shattered that he tries a different way.

I don't know Holdek, as far as I'm concerned a person is still a child until they are self-sufficient and seeing as Chris has never been so then he is still a child.

Adults forced to move back into their parents houses are a whole different kettle of fish by the way as more often than not, they're victims of the system more than from their own doing.

Okay, but you're wading ankle deep into "I make up my own definitions" territory here. In the sense that most English speakers mean when they use the term "adult" Chris is one.

 

[CWCissey]

He's not actually a child. We call him a "manchild" because its a way of making fun of the way he lives his life.

He's actually an adult who has to make the choice of taking that first step, but he's refused to do so time and time again. We can only hope that as his illusions continue to be shattered that he tries a different way.

I don't know Holdek, as far as I'm concerned a person is still a child until they are self-sufficient and seeing as Chris has never been so then he is still a child.

Adults forced to move back into their parents houses are a whole different kettle of fish by the way as more often than not, they're victims of the system more than from their own doing.

Okay, but you're wading ankle deep into "I make up my own definitions" territory here. In the sense that most English speakers mean when they use the term "adult" Chris is one.

Fair enough, LEGALLY he's an adult, but somehow I doubt many people would consider Chris to actually be one.

 

[Marvin]

Well, to make a simple definition, I'd settle on that Chris is incapable of surviving on his own. Even if you pushed him out of the nest, he'd require a solid amount of frequent checkups to make sure he doesn't starve or end up late on his rent. Basically, Chris' mind is made of pudding. And I think "surviving on your own" is a simple enough definition of adulthood that your average person would need.

 

[RagtimeRoastBeefy]

Arguably the "Chris response" to life is an environmentally caused mental illness that needs psychological intervention at this point. Hes not going to simply "do better" and its not cause he's a weak willed parasite or whatever garbage kids are pulling from ayn rand these days.
There's no justifying our laughing at Chris. Its all a desperate normalization of something that has highly sketchy morals at best. Laughing "cause he could do better and totally chooses to fail" comes from the same place of schadenfreude that laughing at his now conditioned mad man responses to everyday life does.

Chris is bizarre and a train wreck. But the idea that people are only laughing at Chris' failure is absurd as someone claiming to look at the metaphorical train wreck for something else besides human bodies.

Chris will never receive the help he needs because of not only the nations indifference to the importance of mental health but the lack of personal contacts willing to help him. As been said before Chris has to be "trained" to do things right. Doing things the way he has been doing them for years has been ingrained into his mind as acceptable. Yelling at him on the internet isn't going to fix him. And unless someone has the actual intent of helping him in a way that's effective, ie not on the bloody internet, they ought to stop moralizing their interest in Chris with something like "I'm trying to help him" because they know damn well they're not

All of that's pretty dark shit, but mind you Chris' cartoonish reaction to the world is funny. If only in its absurdity. But let's no kid ourselves into thinking that lolcows aren't the 21st century equivalent to the 19th century practice of visiting the sanitarium for entertainment purposes.

 

[Smokedaddy]

There's no justifying our laughing at Chris. Its all a desperate normalization of something that has highly sketchy morals at best.

Sure, it's justified. He's funny. I laugh at funny things. People do tend to do that, and it's not a "desperate normalization" of anything. A blanket pronouncement of "I know what's wrong with everyone on the forums (except of course me)" is more than a little pretentious to begin with.

 

[exball]

Some people on this forum has autism themselves and can't comprehend that Chris is different than they are. Also, you can tell who has the 'tism when the discussion turns to it.

Thems facts

Yes.

 

[RagtimeRoastBeefy]

There's no justifying our laughing at Chris. Its all a desperate normalization of something that has highly sketchy morals at best.

Sure, it's justified. He's funny. I laugh at funny things. People do tend to do that, and it's not a "desperate normalization" of anything. A blanket pronouncement of "I know what's wrong with everyone on the forums (except of course me)" is more than a little pretentious to begin with.

That is more Along the lines of what I was going for lol. Chris is funny. Going into why too much leads to pushing a weird objective with funny material. Rationalizing it too much gives way too much thought to something that should be fun. The point is the "were laughing at an autistic dude and we need to justify why we are moral pillars of the community by saying we only laugh at him not manning up" is ridiculous. We laugh at Chris for a million reasons and even if they have to do with his mental illnesses, biological or environmental, its more complex than that.

 

[3Yikes]

He's not actually a child. We call him a "manchild" because its a way of making fun of the way he lives his life.

Mentally, I really think he is.

 

[Scuttle456]

Except I said that this applies to the less severe cases as well. It is perfectly possible for someone with autism to get a driver's license, yet be incapable of holding a job for more than a week. Hell, people who don't have autism can have that problem.h

That information that we have about people with autism in general suggest, that unless it's a really high functioning case, the person plain and simply can't deal with most of life on his own.

Hell, even Marvin, the one guy who would know Chris best out of anyone on this forum, has said that Chris can only be trained like a dog to do things. Yet people ignore this point religiously.

So, once again, why do people want Chris to do things that simply don't happen?

Gumbarrel, Im curious as to how much you have actually read about autism and how much is simply conjecture, or you speaking from bad experiences. Marvin is really just a watcher of Chris like us, who happens to have a good close up of him. " Why do people want Chris to do things that simply don't happen? Plenty of autistic people are gainfully employed, have friends and can live independently, as long as they aren't terribly low functioning. If you take a look at the cwcki, you will find that Chris' current predicament is based on a history of bad parenting and a poor personality. Not to quote A-log, but truly, Chris does not speak or represent all autistic people.

 

[A-Stump]

Chris didn't even realize, by himself, didn't realize that the clearly offensive and futile attraction sign made him look retarded. He had to be told by his MOTHER, and that only stopped him from doing it for awhile. Do you really think he can hold a job of any capacity? Let's not talk about how lazy he is, right down to the core he seems to see nothing wrong with his behavior. He's been arrested, he's been roundly mocked, he has had every chance to learn and I dare say he isn't capable of even when it means he'll suffer from it. He clings to the idea that he's 'High Functioning Autistic' but he's anything anything else. Does anyone who is high functioning just randomly shit themselves from stress? Do high functioning people get tackled, hogtied, and have to be rescued by their elderly mother? Does anyone with a sense of normalcy sit in a room full of toys from adolescence that they still play with, placing Lego figurines in a container and using it as a form of voodoo?

No.

 

[Scuttle456]

Really, how many examples of people like Chris can you give me, who managed to do what you expect out of him? By being "willing to change and accepting help", who did it without direct intervention by family/institutions?

Well sir, people "like" Chris are really a once in a generation experience... Id say he's one of a kind.... If your saying Chris is the run of the mill high functioning autism, well I really must take exception to that...

Wouldnt you say there is a major difference between Temple Grandin/ the Pokemon founder and Chris Chan?

And feel free to answer this or not, but I sense a certain angry vibe from you, as if you have a strong contempt/animus for all autistic individuals, and not just our Pet Lolcow? Am I correct in thinking that? And if I am, seriously dude, what gives?

 

[A-Stump]

Really, how many examples of people like Chris can you give me, who managed to do what you expect out of him? By being "willing to change and accepting help", who did it without direct intervention by family/institutions?

Well sir, people "like" Chris are really a once in a generation experience... Id say he's one of a kind.... If your saying Chris is the run of the mill high functioning autism, well I really must take exception to that...

Wouldnt you say there is a major difference between Temple Grandin/ the Pokemon founder and Our Pet Lolcow?

And feel free to answer this or not, but I sense a certain angry vibe from you, as if you have a strong contempt/animus for all autistic individuals, and not just our Pet Lolcow? Am I correct in thinking that? And if I am, seriously dude, what gives?

One of a kind? Dip a toe in the Lolcow board, hoss.

 

[3Yikes]

And feel free to answer this or not, but I sense a certain angry vibe from you, as if you have a strong contempt/animus for all autistic individuals, and not just our Pet Lolcow? Am I correct in thinking that? And if I am, seriously dude, what gives?

What exactly makes me "against" autistics? Stating that most of them require help to live their lives? The first time I brought this point, I was called and ass-patter, now I am , wtf?

Well sir, people "like" Chris are really a once in a generation experience... Id say he's one of a kind.... If your saying Chris is the run of the mill high functioning autism, well I really must take exception to that...

Well then what is the point of making comparison to other people, if he is really so unique?

And as far as Chris being "run of the mill autistic", well, I can't really say a professional would grade him, but really, his problems are nothing unique. What is really unique, is the fact that we got to SEE and document his bizarre behaviors.

Plenty of autistic people are gainfully employed, have friends and can live independently, as long as they aren't terribly low functioning.

But my point wasn't that this isn't happening. My point is, that these success stories, unless they are really mild, received assistance from their peers. And they NEED that help for their entire lives. They didn't just get their on their own by "being willing to seek help" and by listening to advice on the internet.

 

[CatParty]

Nah, autistics are soulless monsters who cannot do things for themselves.