US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
I came here after reading the Ars article that said that 8chan and the Daily Stormer were knocked out when BitMitigate's upstream provider kneecapped it.
Antifa shooter Connor Betts shot up a random bar in Ohio on the same day as the El Paso shooter (and killed mostly black people).
He did turn out to be a leftist and a Satanist, but I'm not so sure he was Antifa; also, it doesn't seem to be random (in particular, he killed his own sister, so she may have been a target), and although it was less than 24 hours after the El Paso shooter, whether it was on the same calendar day depends on your perspective (a bit after 1AM Sunday in Dayton, 11PM Saturday in El Paso).

With that said, I hope that 8chan doesn't go away for good, at least because then /hnt/ will still have a chance to rise from the dead; I'm still saddened because Anon-IB threw in the towel last April, and the only close alternative I know about, AnonMe, isn't nearly as good.
 
This server is physically colo'd at Digital Realty, 200 Paul Ave, San Fran. Sole upstream is centauricom.com, who in turn have two Tier 1 upstreams (L3/Cogent & nLayer/GTT). Jim is their only downstream peer, with a few 10GE connections to their Juniper router.

Centauri's website is very early-2000's-looking, complete with flash-based speed test and a broken Looking Glass URL (works if you forge host header though). I don't think he has to worry about Twitter pressure, these guys look more at home with email and fax. They were claiming to be part of CDN for steam as recently as 2016, so their network is not as unmaintained as maybe their website suggests.

It is not the most resilient setup, but as long as no one hits him with a DDoS, should be fine for at least a little while. He also has servers in Philippines to fall back on (67.219.4.0/24), but their connectivity to US is shit.
 
People in this thread seem to think otherwise, but 8chan isn't just the /pol/ board.
Unpopular opinion: Great! Fuck 8chan.
Garbage site full of dipshit turboautists who clap when users murder people. If you have any pretention that it's anything substantially more than that, you're delusional.
Anyone who just wants porn, anime or hobbyism discussion goes to 4chan because they don't care about censorship. Because there's nothing to be censored in a thread for posting pictures of model robots.

Kiwifarms won't be third down because Kiwifarms doesn't habitually reinforce violent crime commited by users. Kiwifarms users generally don't talk good on violent crime because if you do, everyone else gives you negative stickers and then ignores you, thus showing you you're dumb without derailing the conversation to give you attention. At worst you'll get called an autist and given a thread, but then you're not an accepted part of the site's userbase anymore. You've become the very target of ridicule it's based off.
8chan doesn't have that kind of negative reinforcement, and its core userbase is mostly refugees from 4chan's /pol/ who couldn't, or wouldn't, tone themselves down enough to lay low for awhile.
So of course it's filled with ever-escalating, autistically detached dumbasses who think videos of violence on the computer is like videogames, and so cheer it on. Nobody can en masse, quickly, and concisely tell them that's too far. Here we have Autistic and Islamic Content.

Shit people who like murder shouldn't be run off the internet wholesale, because freedom and the American Spirit and all that, but that's not what's happening here. Cloudfare just doesn't want to associate with a site where the primary userbase is an autistic cesspool that throws a party whenever one of their users kills someone and posts pics, and that's just fine with me.
Deriding some entirely private entity's decision to cut them off their non-essential and quickly replaced service is stupid. I'd make the same decision at this point. This is what, the 7th murder that 8chan's /pol/ has praised and sung about from on high in the last year? Fuck 'em. They're worse than Columbine fangirls on Tumblr.

But uhh, anyway, this is the internet apocalypse you guys, and WE'RE NEXT because lamenting trannys' dumb suicides is, in fact, comparably the same as consistant mass-murder fanboyism. And that conclusion requires no stretches of the imagination which take months, if not years, of Twitteratti politicization.
We all, of course, know Kiwifarms is INSTANTLY DEAD without Cloudfare. Evil Cloudfare is gonna kill the whole internet now! The end times are here!

Christ this reads like a twitter post. Migrating all hobby boards to 4chan defeats the entire point of making unique boards in the first place.
 
This server is physically colo'd at Digital Realty, 200 Paul Ave, San Fran. Sole upstream is centauricom.com, who in turn have two Tier 1 upstreams (L3/Cogent & nLayer/GTT). Jim is their only downstream peer, with a few 10GE connections to their Juniper router.

Centauri's website is very early-2000's-looking, complete with flash-based speed test and a broken Looking Glass URL (works if you forge host header though). I don't think he has to worry about Twitter pressure, these guys look more at home with email and fax. They were claiming to be part of CDN for steam as recently as 2016, so their network is not as unmaintained as maybe their website suggests.

I saw these guys from the traceroute before the site was up, which is why I thought (and why it appears to be) that the site is up basically naked from DDoS.

It's still not currently working, boards rarely load, links are broken because the domain isn't resolving, so while 8ch.net has a visible presence on the net, it's essentially unusable right now.
 
THE FUCKING MADMAN
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Isn't that the problem with this whole "ban 8chins" solution? That it's largely an inconvenience until they just find a new place to take things too far in? Like banning 8chan doesn't suddenly make these people power down like some sci-fi robots. If anything keeping them in one place makes them easier to track.
 
Could you try living in less of a shithole?

fca.jpg
 
Can you faggots try using alternatives to archive.li, it's banned in over 100 countries cuntstralia included.
It's about time to educate yourself on bypassing ISP blocks. Regardless of where your country is on the shithole scale.
At least have a Tor browser bundle ready. If you don't want to glow your Tor usage, get obfs4 bridges from bridges.torproject.org.
 
It's about time to educate yourself on bypassing ISP blocks. Regardless of where your country is on the shithole scale.
At least have a Tor browser bundle ready. If you don't want to glow your Tor usage, get obfs4 bridges from bridges.torproject.org.

I have all of that and far more. I'm just tired of having to resort to that shit on the off-chance that the random archive link OF A FUCKING TWEET farted out in these threads is worth clicking on.
 
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How can I convince Josh to make a new 8chan? If anyone can make a site that'll never get shot down, it's him.
He tried that with infinity Next and that went to hell and a hand basket due to Jim Watkins being an ass about the code.
 
Well, didn't take long for it to find a new home.

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I predicted something like this. There's going to be a fracturing of the internet because of these censorous faggots. How many videos have been posted on Facebook and Twitter of live shootings? You think you're going to make this disappear? Fuck yourselves.
 
Don't worry, the free market will soon make these services inoperable on Windows and Macs, and they will make sure any open source OS is incompatible with new hardware.

Then the free market will create a unintended consequence of making a Streisand effect. They'll soon make these services inopable but some guys will menage to find a way to bypass it.
 
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