US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
It was bound to happen after news outlets were painting 8chan as "a website where people prepare for the race war and shooters post their manifestos".

That's also describing the shadowed corners of Facebook, though.
I wonder what site is next on the chopping block... Hmm, what other site can we think of that is popular for being related to mass shootings...

They already took down the Million Dollar Extreme subreddit, bro.
 
It was bound to happen after news outlets were painting 8chan as "a website where people prepare for the race war and shooters post their manifestos".
I'm more surprised they took this long to do it. I honestly would have expected this to happen as early as the Christchurch shootings given the history behind that tragedy.

Real question is, what's next?
 
So if this is now the case with 8chan, I suppose KF is on the road to getting axed by Cloudflare soon, as well


I don't know about that. It could happen, but aside from Couch Cuck (who was at best a blurb on local news in the grand scheme of things) and Null rightfully telling the NZ police to fuck off, I can't really see Cloudflare giving Kiwi Farms the boot unless one of two scenarios play out...

Scenario A: In the wake of 8chan's demise (however short-lived it may be), the usual suspects feel emboldened and get more aggressive in their campaigns against the Farms, doing everything they can to pressure Cloudflare into dropping KF, and Cloudflare bends the knee to them to avoid any extra headaches. This is the most likely scenario of a Kiwi Farms take down, and even then the odds are a bit iffy (barring a change in management at Cloudflare or something similarly major)

Scenario B: One of the regulars at the Farms decides to be an idiot and go for the high score, and ends up inflicting enough casualties to be on the national news. William Atchinson only killed two people before being thwarted by staff and turning the gun on himself, which is sadly not enough to gain traction on national news in this day and age.

Also, keep in mind that Couch Cuck wasn't much of a regular around here and before he did the crime, he wasn't really that noticeable and his reputation at best was as a generic edgelord. If anything, he got more attention for his activities on ED since he actually was a regular there and had an unhealthy fixation on ED's "High Score" articles prior to the shooting. IIRC, he was an ED sysop and wrote most of those articles or at least contributed heavily to them.

TL;DR-Cloudflare probably won't drop the Farms as of this moment, and 8chan will probably find a new home on another web hosting service.
 
The farms are probably next. Fucking sucks but they're not going to go after any leftist site. Next time there's a high profile Tranny suicide, that's when they'll strike.

But Null is pretty far up on the internet foodchain, server wise, that he could probably start his own DDoS service if Cloudflair takes the site off its service.
 
The dismissive, almost sneering attitude toward the First Amendment is super encouraging.
People don't really want freedom.
They want to be safe and secure, while being distracted by the media and being well-fed.

Historians are wrong. we aren't living in an Orwellian society, but a Huxelyan one. People don't care about individual freedoms and want to just feel safe and "happy" from everything bad happening in the world. Any dissenters get quarantined and separated by the "civilized" people up top.
 
Potentially-unpopular opinion, but this is actually not as bad a thing as some of us might think, and I actually think Cloudflare have their heads screwed on when it comes to when to stop working with a site (i.e. very rarely). Their decisions regarding Stormfront and 8chan would fall under a "Wednesbury unreasonableness" standard (it's so unreasonable that no reasonable person would act otherwise).

Unfortunately some kind of standard like this is necessary for any business or else you'd be forced to do literally anything for anyone (make a gay wedding cake as a Christian; print Muhammad cartoons as a Muslim; or host 8chan when you're legitimately concerned about actual violence) - but that *doesn't* mean you have any moral right to build an internet superhighway like Facebook or Twitter and then decide a few years later once everyone's on that you're going to offload people just because you don't like them - and meanwhile everyone's now basically stuck with you until we have another Myspace moment. It's crap like that which gives the Hawleys and Bannons their clout; if they won't respect substantive freedom of speech as a moral issue (not just a technical-legal concept in the First Amendment), somebody could very easily rally enough people to force them to do it as a legal one, with all the unintended consequences that would bring (and for what it's worth, I'd support doing it if nothing changes).

I mean could you imagine any of the internet giants ever writing a statement like this?
Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it.
I certainly couldn't, even though it's true, and frankly it's from this sad fact that a lot of the ammunition of the culture war is being forged. A government is accountable to the people and if they enact policies the people disagree with, then they can be voted out and changed. A megacorporation answers to nothing but the whim of a jumped-up billionaire with more money than sense - yet it's the latter that we're giving a free pass to and actively excusing what are becoming increasingly political decisions? Give me a fucking break!

And with regards to whether we'd be next on here: of course not! People don't come here to encourage and promote violence; share shooting manifestos; etc. People might find us objectionable but we're not breeding violence like - whether we like it or not - Stormfront and 8chan have.
 
I don't see why anybody would want to use 4Chan. That site literally uses goons as mods.
Who wants to get permission from Google before you're allowed to post? Dunno how anyone tolerates that.

I'm more surprised they took this long to do it. I honestly would have expected this to happen as early as the Christchurch shootings given the history behind that tragedy.

Real question is, what's next?
Any big site that hosts free discussion by undesirables and broaches topics that jar coarsely against the mainstream will have a hard time making it through 2020. The censorship has increased in breadth and, thanks to its success, will continue until the enemies of social justarians are deplatformed everywhere. We will be left hanging in the dark, hidden corners like those from ancient cyberpunk novels.
 
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