US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
Honestly I just want 8chans /agdg/ to survive. The agdg threads on /v/ were very comfy even when the rest of /v/ was absolutely terrible. It was a close nit group, like an oasis of good in an ocean of piss. I couldn't give less of a shit about /pol/ and their ilk I just want to read shitposts about game development and programming. At least I have memories and screenshots saved if 8chan is down for good.
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Unpopular opinion: Great! Fuck 8chan.
Garbage site full of dipshit turboautists who clap when users murder people. If you have any pretention that it's anything substantially more than that, you're delusional.
Anyone who just wants porn, anime or hobbyism discussion goes to 4chan because they don't care about censorship. Because there's nothing to be censored in a thread for posting pictures of model robots.

Kiwifarms won't be third down because Kiwifarms doesn't habitually reinforce violent crime commited by users. Kiwifarms users generally don't talk good on violent crime because if you do, everyone else gives you negative stickers and then ignores you, thus showing you you're dumb without derailing the conversation to give you attention. At worst you'll get called an autist and given a thread, but then you're not an accepted part of the site's userbase anymore. You've become the very target of ridicule it's based off.
8chan doesn't have that kind of negative reinforcement, and its core userbase is mostly refugees from 4chan's /pol/ who couldn't, or wouldn't, tone themselves down enough to lay low for awhile.
So of course it's filled with ever-escalating, autistically detached dumbasses who think videos of violence on the computer is like videogames, and so cheer it on. Nobody can en masse, quickly, and concisely tell them that's too far. Here we have Autistic and Islamic Content.

Shit people who like murder shouldn't be run off the internet wholesale, because freedom and the American Spirit and all that, but that's not what's happening here. Cloudfare just doesn't want to associate with a site where the primary userbase is an autistic cesspool that throws a party whenever one of their users kills someone and posts pics, and that's just fine with me.
Deriding some entirely private entity's decision to cut them off their non-essential and quickly replaced service is stupid. I'd make the same decision at this point. This is what, the 7th murder that 8chan's /pol/ has praised and sung about from on high in the last year? Fuck 'em. They're worse than Columbine fangirls on Tumblr.

But uhh, anyway, this is the internet apocalypse you guys, and WE'RE NEXT because lamenting trannys' dumb suicides is, in fact, comparably the same as consistant mass-murder fanboyism. And that conclusion requires no stretches of the imagination which take months, if not years, of Twitteratti politicization.
We all, of course, know Kiwifarms is INSTANTLY DEAD without Cloudfare. Evil Cloudfare is gonna kill the whole internet now! The end times are here!
 
8chan wasn't a publisher but a platform, yet they get banned
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Section 230 of the CDA only applies in a court of law. In the court of public opinion you're already guilty and anyone who doesn't abandon you will soon get tarred with the same brush.
 
Well guys, it has been done, 8 Chan is gone. Now we don't have to worry about all those nasty shootings anymore! Since that awful 8chan caused every mass shooting since Vietnam (Vietnam is 8chan's fault too). Right?
Seeing as how /pol/ is filled with glow in the dark niggers and feds, you might not be that far off with that statement
 
So it's finally come to this then.

Well I think it's now time for finally adopting decentralized online services then since it's clear that both big tech and partisan activists just want to pretty much sterilize the Internet as much as they can possible.

So honestly just have big tech play much lesser of a role in your life and go for platforms and other online services that don't give two shits about politics and doesn't cater to any side of the political spectrum in all.

It's going to be a bumpy ride for the Internet so all we can do is resist these types of crackdowns by making it as hard as possible for both private entities and governments to censor much of the Internet as a whole by decentralizing it.
 
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Literally all a site has to do is have SOME modicum of moderation in order to stay safe, and /pol/ couldn't even do THAT right.

Nice lie. The actual original Christchurch thread was deleted within 10 minutes. That's faster than it took Facebook to shut down the stream. 8chan is a shithole but you don't need to make up utter bullshit.
 
Seeing as how /pol/ is filled with glow in the dark niggers and feds, you might not be that far off with that statement
I don't think I've browsed /pol/ more than a few times in the past year, but do you have any more basis for that statement than the stupid 'right wing' meme where the screenshots that some guy (who may not even be a CI) sent to the FBI have '(You)' next to the ID?

I'm guessing not. I don't see much value in 8ch apart from doxing people and gayops against enemies, but the idea that it is a honeypot is generally spread by people trying to keep people confined to their own brand of edginess.
 
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Reactions: Rip_In_Pepperino
Unpopular opinion: Great! Fuck 8chan.
Garbage site full of dipshit turboautists who clap when users murder people. If you have any pretention that it's anything substantially more than that, you're delusional.
Anyone who just wants porn, anime or hobbyism discussion goes to 4chan because they don't care about censorship. Because there's nothing to be censored in a thread for posting pictures of model robots.

Kiwifarms won't be third down because Kiwifarms doesn't habitually reinforce violent crime commited by users. Kiwifarms users generally don't talk good on violent crime because if you do, everyone else gives you negative stickers and then ignores you, thus showing you you're dumb without derailing the conversation to give you attention. At worst you'll get called an autist and given a thread, but then you're not an accepted part of the site's userbase anymore. You've become the very target of ridicule it's based off.
8chan doesn't have that kind of negative reinforcement, and its core userbase is mostly refugees from 4chan's /pol/ who couldn't, or wouldn't, tone themselves down enough to lay low for awhile.
So of course it's filled with ever-escalating, autistically detached dumbasses who think videos of violence on the computer is like videogames, and so cheer it on. Nobody can en masse, quickly, and concisely tell them that's too far. Here we have Autistic and Islamic Content.

Shit people who like murder shouldn't be run off the internet wholesale, because freedom and the American Spirit and all that, but that's not what's happening here. Cloudfare just doesn't want to associate with a site where the primary userbase is an autistic cesspool that throws a party whenever one of their users kills someone and posts pics, and that's just fine with me.
Deriding some entirely private entity's decision to cut them off their non-essential and quickly replaced service is stupid. I'd make the same decision at this point. This is what, the 7th murder that 8chan's /pol/ has praised and sung about from on high in the last year? Fuck 'em. They're worse than Columbine fangirls on Tumblr.

But uhh, anyway, this is the internet apocalypse you guys, and WE'RE NEXT because lamenting trannys' dumb suicides is, in fact, comparably the same as consistant mass-murder fanboyism. And that conclusion requires no stretches of the imagination which take months, if not years, of Twitteratti politicization.
We all, of course, know Kiwifarms is INSTANTLY DEAD without Cloudfare. Evil Cloudfare is gonna kill the whole internet now! The end times are here!
I don’t like the users of 8cham as much as the next guy. But this is a slippery slope we’re sliding on. It always starts off with the most extreme of us then it gradually works it’s way down to everyone.
 
That's also the problem when you end up leasing out infrastructure from someone else (or have any "weak point" really). Blue checkmarks with connections will find out who you used and complain to them until you lose your hosting. BitMitigate's huge mistake was leasing services from someone else who could easily cave in, which is the biggest difference between a big tech company that owns everything and someone using their services to emulate big tech's services.

Something that would be really nice to have is a complete list of blue checkmarks along with their dox. I wonder who might have such a thing. Wouldn't it be great if all these terrible people had given their identifying information to a single party?
 
I'm aware that's what everyone says it says. I read it through when it came to public attention, and as far as I could tell, nowhere did the agent assert that the actual screenshots he attaches are ones that he personally saved.

Regardless of the truth of the screenshot's implications, it serves to remind us of something we should always remember: never take anonymous chat sites too seriously, because a huge, argumentative thread could just be you and one guy talking to himself from different IPs.
 
I'm aware that's what everyone says it says. I read it through when it came to public attention, and as far as I could tell, nowhere did the agent assert that the actual screenshots he attaches are ones that he personally saved.

He said "Agents observed." He doesn't indicate the existence of a confidential informant. So either he committed perjury or he was the source of the document.

Regardless of the truth of the screenshot's implications, it serves to remind us of something we should always remember: never take anonymous chat sites too seriously, because a huge, argumentative thread could just be you and one guy talking to himself from different IPs.

Or you could be arguing with someone, like an idiot, and some other idiot could be alternately pretending to be both of you and throwing in insults to get you really riled at each other. Now what kind of a jerk would do that?
 
I don’t really care that much about 8chan, but what exactly is distributed computing? Is it just peer to peer sharing or what? What does tor do for these kinds of sites?
 
I don’t really care that much about 8chan, but what exactly is distributed computing? Is it just peer to peer sharing or what? What does tor do for these kinds of sites?
Last I checked, it's P2P powered website sharing.
TOR doesn't do much to these kinds of sites, last I checked.
 
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