US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
I saw the story. Again shows HW's standard MO of turning on people who try to help or confide in him. He didn't like the answer he got from Rep. Eshoo’s staffer so he turns around and dumps their implied private conversations. A few days ago it was the dev of lokinet with irc msg's.

So many bridges burned. So few results.
Jim's money making businesses are still up.
8kun is online clearnet and TOR.
It maybe crippled but its alive.
And on the bottom of the main page still stands Fred's name.
Based chadwheels... :semperfidelis:
 

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The cripple's a serious journalist now. It's California's fault lunatics shoot people and post their garbage manifestos on a chan. That's very a very serious accusation to make.

View attachment 997807

Isn't Bellingcat a dodgy site a weirdo from Something Awful started when his autism went into overdrive looking at pictures from Libya (Black Moses or something I don't remember). Not quite The New York Times in any event.
Yes, the founder went on something awful
 
I saw the story. Again shows HW's standard MO of turning on people who try to help or confide in him. He didn't like the answer he got from Rep. Eshoo’s staffer so he turns around and dumps their implied private conversations. A few days ago it was the dev of lokinet with irc msg's.
That's it! Hotwheels is Vordrak. Vordrak is Hotwheels. Vordrak is a pedo.
 
The person you quoted is actually also correct. It was founded by Something Awful goon Brown Moses.
this is bullshit man I've been posting dumb shit online for decades and nobody includes me in any shadowy global propogadizing conspiracies
When do I get my cut of the glowinthedark Illuminati pie, dammit!
 
@Null your old buddy may bring out your worst fears about de-platforming finally reaching the backbone level.

View attachment 998282

@henet is Hurricane Electric's official twitter.
Full Twitter thread archive for posterity:
8kunthread.png

EInPLbkUcAA39op.png

EInPLbjU0AIHjHH.png

EInSsYcVAAA1Dr0.jpg

EInTc_bU0AIwYdT.jpg

(https://archive.li/HYZyK)

For now, seems like 8kun is up(-ish?). Wonder what Hotwheels and friends will try next?
8kunstillup.png

(https://archive.li/sYhZ9)
 
For now, seems like 8kun is up(-ish?). Wonder what Hotwheels and friends will try next?
8kunstillup.png

How expensive/time consuming is it to keep these attacks up? I always thought it wasn't something affordable to just maintain indefinitely. The site right now appears to be, exactly as ron says, limping along. I wonder if Fred is having any effect whatsoever or if he's just squawking into the void and letting 1337 hackerz act like they've gained root on jim's Gibson.
 
How expensive/time consuming is it to keep these attacks up? I always thought it wasn't something affordable to just maintain indefinitely. The site right now appears to be, exactly as ron says, limping along. I wonder if Fred is having any effect whatsoever or if he's just squawking into the void and letting 1337 hackerz act like they've gained root on jim's Gibson.
Not particularly expensive, especially by comparison to what the people whose free speech he's trying to shut down have to pay. While the pedophile [Brennan] bleats on about how 8chan's noble hosts are doing something 'wrong', his terrorist buddies won't be paying for the bandwidth they use on their botnets.

Other ISPs reporting so-called 'bogon routes': CenturyLink, Cogent, AT&T, BAE (among the funders of the Atlantic Council, the terrorist organisation which pays for Bellingcat's pro-genocide articles), and the US DOD.
 
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How expensive/time consuming is it to keep these attacks up?

Depends whether you're paying for it or using your own botnet. It can be quite expensive if you're just some sped paying to DDoS which is why the Farms gets the occasional lame hours long DDoS when some sped on tard bucks gets his monthly check. It can be pretty cheap if you're actively farming your own botnet and cooperating with others, but you're spending actual time to do it.

Pretty sure cuckwheels has access to the kind of people who would do it with their own botnet and be able to keep it up pretty much indefinitely, as long as they feel like it. Assuming he's not doing it himself, which he could also do but I doubt he has to dirty his hands that much.
 
8kun isn't the only site on that /24. If it really is the people some are claiming oh boy. It looks like someone's screeching may have gotten it blocked by ATT and VZN?
Completely defenseless chickennugget living in 3rd world country decides to fuck with russian organized crime group's business.
I like where this story is going. :popcorn:
 

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8kun isn't the only site on that /24. If it really is the people some are claiming oh boy. It looks like someone's screeching may have gotten it blocked by ATT and VZN?
Completely defenseless chickennugget living in 3rd world country decides to fuck with russian organized crime group's business.
I like where this story is going. :popcorn:
It's a pity [Brennan] is in Philipinnes rather than Thailand. Many more Russians there.

Still, can't get too optimistic. There is a good chance the backers behind the subhuman pedophile terrorist will simply succeed in getting the nice Russian man to stop operating a reverse proxy for 8chan.

EDIT: It looks like the DNS registrar Tucows is deplatforming 8kun in this case.
Code:
ibrahim_rehan@DELLPC:~$ nslookup 8kun.net 1.1.1.1
Server:         1.1.1.1
Address:        1.1.1.1#53

** server can't find 8kun.net: NXDOMAIN

ibrahim_rehan@DELLPC:~$ nslookup 8kun.net 8.8.8.8
Server:         8.8.8.8
Address:        8.8.8.8#53

** server can't find 8kun.net: NXDOMAIN

ibrahim_rehan@DELLPC:~$ whois 8kun.net
   Domain Name: 8KUN.NET
   Registry Domain ID: 2432426788_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
   Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.tucows.com
   Registrar URL: http://www.tucows.com
   Updated Date: 2019-11-05T15:57:29Z
   Creation Date: 2019-09-12T01:11:24Z
   Registry Expiry Date: 2020-09-12T01:11:24Z
   Registrar: Tucows Domains Inc.
   Registrar IANA ID: 69
 
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There is a good chance the backers behind the subhuman pedophile terrorist will simply succeed in getting the nice Russian man to stop operating a reverse proxy for 8chan.
True. Maybe they will also get VZN/ATT to undo the block so the nice Russian man doesn't get upset.

edit:
Weird. I get it on 8.8.8.8 and it hit on miss on others.
Who is looks normal then it looks like yours then it looks normal again.

Code:
$ nslookup 8kun.net 8.8.8.8
Server:         8.8.8.8
Address:        8.8.8.8#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   8kun.net
Address: 62.113.113.103

Edit part II
I think it went to "clientHold" status right as we where talking in this thread. Now my whois matches yours.
What a twist! :popcorn:

Edit Part III
Everyone gets a clienthold!
 
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I wonder if Fred is having any effect whatsoever or if he's just squawking into the void and letting 1337 hackerz act like they've gained root on jim's Gibson.
At this point he is just delaying it, a website that has been down several months with people waiting for it to come back so nothing at all has changed besides that there is more sign of life now.
 
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