US Cloudflare: "Terminating Service for 8Chan"


Terminating Service for 8Chan

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August 05, 2019 1:44AM


The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and YouTube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.
The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack.

Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:
Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.
 
That is another thing. I've heard him refer to Kiwi Farms as "basically a stalker forum" in interviews. Ok so if this site is a stalker forum basically and he is an active member basically does that mean that he is a stalker basically? Commutative property or something I dunno I suck at maths.
Constructive possession, and wait, do you mean to say HW disrespected us in public, or am I missing out on some context?
 
He did, on a podcast that's been posted earlier in the thread. I think someone clipped it.
And he's still posting like he's a member of the community in good standing? Wow, I have even less respect for the now-furry, quasi-SJW, formerly based goblin than ever.

It seriously takes some stones to shit on a forum in an interview and then to banally shit post about it about fursonas and shit without actually engaging one's critics.

Me I mostly still used halfchan so his antics affect me nil but his defense of CP and criticism of political speech infuriate me to no end. Has he taken back his stances on CP/lolis/creepshots/etc.?

I know he's doxxed but halal thread when. A fursona, grandiose hypocrisy and even low tier spasticposting is enough to make a lolcow IMO. No he's no Chris but who is.
 
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Hotwheels has had a noted penchant for grandstanding even before 8ch changed hands; I remember he spent a good long while mocking Moot over the whole 4chan exodus ordeal. What I'm curious about is what exactly made him decide to turn his back on all of his old principles. One could take his conversion to Christianity to mean he took a dim view of the racists, pornographers, and assorted misfits he previously associated with, but what good Christian throws all of his previous associates under the bus for clout?
 
Hotwheels has had a noted penchant for grandstanding even before 8ch changed hands; I remember he spent a good long while mocking Moot over the whole 4chan exodus ordeal. What I'm curious about is what exactly made him decide to turn his back on all of his old principles. One could take his conversion to Christianity to mean he took a dim view of the racists, pornographers, and assorted misfits he previously associated with, but what good Christian throws all of his previous associates under the bus for clout?

No Christian at all. A virtue signaling hypocrite who prays loudly in public.
 
Hotwheels has had a noted penchant for grandstanding even before 8ch changed hands; I remember he spent a good long while mocking Moot over the whole 4chan exodus ordeal. What I'm curious about is what exactly made him decide to turn his back on all of his old principles. One could take his conversion to Christianity to mean he took a dim view of the racists, pornographers, and assorted misfits he previously associated with, but what good Christian throws all of his previous associates under the bus for clout?

Random thots:

- He has not once answered the charge of hypocrisy which is really the most important thing brought up in this thread and plenty often--I could respect him if he had a sincere conversion to Christianity and wanted to amend his ways, but this is not how you go about it (weebfaggotry and furfaggotry are hardly very Christian pursuits anyway.)

- No walkback of loli shit, ever, as far as I can tell, even when he spergs about /pol/, this I've said before, but can hardly reiterate enough times, this is a man with a really twisted, literally inverted idea of what "free speech" is, even if he once declared himself her champion. One thing the Internet really needs is a rather easily accessible bastion of free speech, given that all corporate platforms are no longer pretending. The conundrum that such bastions always become havens for CP and Nazism. The way to do it is to make a board that is resilient and will take what it can, and then deal with the paedos and nobody else except where ordered-to by law. Honestly, Null does this as well or better than anyone else.

- Imageboards "cause more misery than anything else," and "do the world no good, for they are a negative to everyone except the users, nay, a negative to them too, they just don't know it." These are totally solid takes on CP. And yet the come from interviews about posting things of a political nature. And Hotwheels doesn't even have the decency to include the CP issue alongside the political issues. Not a showing of great repentence but rather bandwagoning a moral panic. And presumably his stash stays intact.

- Actually, maybe somebody reached out and touched him for CP and made him shut down with the "platforming" of political (and occasionally terroristic) shit. Remember Doug "Fausty" Spink, the dogfucker, druggie and snitch, who set up an allegedly free-speech-oriented VPN when he was almost certainly beholden to the Federal Government?

- Remember Peter Sunde (of the Pirate Bay?) He developed "censorship-resistant" hosting and registrar, but wouldn't register you if you were a "Nazi" or violating the law. 8chan to a rather extreme but arguably legal degree dealt in both, really. But Brennan, of course, only criticizes the former and is still not really on record firmly denouncing paedos.

- Actually, wait, Hotwheels run something back? Yes, but read his actual remarks: he doesn't actually really walk anything back ever, and his social media crusading reads as if he wasn't involved in the genesis of 8chan and the insuing spergy slapfight with Jim Watkins. Which is to say, as if he were telling the story of his own baby from a critical perspective but he hardly ever represents his own involvement (he does in some of his interviews of course, but--also strange for a Christian--he doesn't often express remorse, strictly speaking. Rather, he tells a story about the founding of 8chan, makes some offhand reference to the Christchurch Mosque or something, and then goes into full shrill-SJW mode trying to deplatform his now-far afield Frankenstein's monster.)

- Which happens first, death from OI or a change in pronouns? Which is a worse fate?

- Trigger warning, nobody wants the blurry ones in their head and the rest is just mean: Does his dick work even now (I'm sure this has been asked in reference to his nurse/irl waifu.) Remember that his mother suffers from OI too, and therefore one can safely assume that she had functioning sex organs and a man to sleep with her (shit maybe the incels were right all along) and he absolutely had to be delivered via cesarean for this reason which to some extent calls into question how natural his existence is altogether, not to mention running down, and past, the clock.
 
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- Imageboards "cause more misery than anything else," and "do the world no good, for they are a negative to everyone except the users, nay, a negative to them too, they just don't know it."

The absolute last thing the world needs is yet another sanctimonious SJW piece of shit who knows better than everyone else what's good for them and is going to take away your choices to make sure you do the "right" thing. Like this twisted little mentally ill homunculus is somehow an arbiter of anything, even basic sanity.

- Remember Peter Sunde (of the Pirate Bay?) He developed "censorship-resistant" hosting and registrar, but wouldn't register you if you were a "Nazi" or violating the law.

You can be against the government censoring something while at the same time not want to host it yourself, or just as a matter of practicality, not be able to champion every single lawbreaker out there. Eventually even the most free speech of privately run platforms is going to run into content (like CP or outright terrorist plotting) that has to go or the whole platform is going to be taken down.

These two buffoons aren't doing that, though. They're actively using any means possible to get whoever they can to shut down the site of someone they don't like.
 
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So how is 8kun coming along? Is hotwheels still being a little hateful shit? Is /monster/ finally available again?

See for yourself:

The PPH of even top boards is pathetic. Almost as if people lost interest as soon as the fight over it going up was over.

To be fair, only the /tv/ and /v/ boards on vch.moe are really more active. /cow/ on julay.world is near-dead. Whether they like us or not that's kind of sad.
 
See for yourself:

The PPH of even top boards is pathetic. Almost as if people lost interest as soon as the fight over it going up was over.

To be fair, only the /tv/ and /v/ boards on vch.moe are really more active. /cow/ on julay.world is near-dead. Whether they like us or not that's kind of sad.
That's a shame. I guess /monster/, and my other two favorite boards are well and truly dead. Killed not by state or terrorism, but a midged of a genetic deadend.
 
See for yourself:

The PPH of even top boards is pathetic. Almost as if people lost interest as soon as the fight over it going up was over.

To be fair, only the /tv/ and /v/ boards on vch.moe are really more active. /cow/ on julay.world is near-dead. Whether they like us or not that's kind of sad.
Never mind! As long as Q has a place to post his blatant lies about Trump fighting the power elites, the purpose is fulfilled.
 
I think the PPH is low because 8chan/8kun took way too long to come back, almost 4 fucking months, plus the rebrand and new domain made it even harder to find the site again. After being down for so long, people tend to lose interest and move on, only the diehards were checking the Ron’s twitter every few days to see if the site was back, asking around communities like this, and trying a bunch of domain names to see which one the site had moved to this time. No wonder 8kun lost so many users along the way, its pretty disappointing seeing the board list now.
 
You can be against the government censoring something while at the same time not want to host it yourself, or just as a matter of practicality, not be able to champion every single lawbreaker out there. Eventually even the most free speech of privately run platforms is going to run into content (like CP or outright terrorist plotting) that has to go or the whole platform is going to be taken down.
Right. I phrased my statement somewhat vaguely. My beef with Sunde is that he's virtue-signalling free speech, but casually disqualifying "Nazis" in the same breath as CP. CP obviously needs to be hounded away from wherever it shows up, and there's an unfortunate pattern with platforms like 8chan and gab and even at one point discord (I used to think the ".gg" stood for GamerGate lol) where being a "free speech" platform attracts a lot of unfortunate content and then causes the platform to be portrayed as friendly to such. Sometimes it explicitly is, as in @coypaste's fearless advocacy for near-CP material. The thing is that lumping "Nazis" in with CP is about as anti-free speech as you can get while flying the free speech flag, especially given how flexible the term is when used by SJWs and antis. If you aren't going to allow right-wing political speech, you aren't a free-speech platform in my view, you're just another host. Sunde was explicitly saying he wants to create a "censorship-resistant" host and DNS, and then in the same breath he excludes the people who's free speech is currently under the most threat. I use "free speech" here in a restricted way meaning political speech. I don't include porn or whatever, although Sunde probably does (as long as it isn't CP.) Allowing porn but not political speech just shows how fucked up people's priorities are. I can understand not wanting to be associated with political viewpoints one considers deplorable but that's what "free speech" really is about and someone who wants to throw their own left-leaning Overton window over what they want to host in terms of political speech should not be able to claim that their primary motivation is promoting free speech, because it isn't.
 
Site was working pretty consistently for me for a while but is down right now. Unsure if it's a DDOS or the bone-goblin and Sperger Jerusalem got them de-platformed again.
 
Well we made it nearly three weeks into the new year but cp is back at it again. Trying to get cloudflare to drop Jim's other sites like 2ch and bbspink.

Before that only mention of Jim was more claims that he killed Terry Davis by bailing him out of jail on a FTA over a year before he died.

He has been mostly boring but apparently more evidence of his daddy issues have materialized. Also did some whining that the "qanon news" he had wasnt worthy of being published even on one of those neolib atlantic council blogs like Bellingcat. Oh and apparently he was blocked by Kim Dotcom after making some comment about how he was wheezing and has no excuse not to get gastric bypass with his money. Well isnt that the beach ball calling the volleyball round. 20200120_210746.jpg20200120_210719.jpg20200120_210646.jpg20200120_210620.jpg20200120_210556.jpg20200120_210514.jpg20200120_210450.jpg
 

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Well we made it nearly three weeks into the new year but cp is back at it again. Trying to get cloudflare to drop Jim's other sites like 2ch and bbspink.

Before that only mention of Jim was more claims that he killed Terry Davis by bailing him out of jail on a FTA over a year before he died.

He has been mostly boring but apparently more evidence of his daddy issues have materialized. Also did some whining that the "qanon news" he had wasnt worthy of being published even on one of those neolib atlantic council blogs like Bellingcat. Oh and apparently he was blocked by Kim Dotcom after making some comment about how he was wheezing and has no excuse not to get gastric bypass with his money. Well isnt that the beach ball calling the volleyball round.View attachment 1106424View attachment 1106425View attachment 1106426View attachment 1106427View attachment 1106428View attachment 1106429View attachment 1106430
>Finally realises the furry picture makes him looks like shit.
>Thinks his face is an improvement.
 
Well we made it nearly three weeks into the new year but cp is back at it again. Trying to get cloudflare to drop Jim's other sites like 2ch and bbspink.

Before that only mention of Jim was more claims that he killed Terry Davis by bailing him out of jail on a FTA over a year before he died.

He has been mostly boring but apparently more evidence of his daddy issues have materialized. Also did some whining that the "qanon news" he had wasnt worthy of being published even on one of those neolib atlantic council blogs like Bellingcat. Oh and apparently he was blocked by Kim Dotcom after making some comment about how he was wheezing and has no excuse not to get gastric bypass with his money. Well isnt that the beach ball calling the volleyball round.View attachment 1106424View attachment 1106425View attachment 1106426View attachment 1106427View attachment 1106428View attachment 1106429View attachment 1106430
So he should post it or STFU.
Schrodinger's media opp. He both has editors interested and can't get interest at the same time. I guess he is just banking on/hoping for a mass shooting manifesto.

Side note: why is it so many of the anti-qtards are as ridiculously obsessed as the qtards?
 

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