#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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Mecha said:
On the topic of Gail Simone She hasn't posted a video to her YouTube Channel in over a year. She's at 1.62k Subscribers.

Her last video was a congratulations for "graduating" from her comics school university thing she did on twitter.

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The video features a rather cryptic message

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It didn't have to be the end of your YouTube Journey Gail!

Much like Liberals never found someone to challenge Rush Limbaugh on the air waves it seems SJW comic professionals won't ever find a challenger to compete with Anti-SJW YouTubers in the live streaming talkshow like arena. Twitter remains the Social Media platform of Choice for SJW comic pros. Unless there's someone besides Dan Shahin coming up, and I very well could be unaware, I don't see that changing anytime soon thankfully.
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Gail Simone had a Youtube? The only Youtubers worth a damn on comics are woke reviewers who copy Channel Awesome long after it died like Comic Tropes. Reviewers who spoil the whole thing making it so you don't have to read it. The anti woke sjws who bitch and moan about sjws as they become them with the exception of few.

FROG said:
Unbelievable bastards here. Fuck all y'all.

Except for like three people.
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Go back to making clickbait Youtube vids you failed Comic pro.
 
FROG said:
Dan Shahin's condemnation of my setting up that GoFundMe struck me as incredibly weird and unrelatable to me. It was obviously the right thing to do, even in hindsight, and completely morally justifiable.

Trying to put myself in Shahin's headspace, however, I think he must have meant that it was unforgiveable in terms of the unspoken pact that Comic Pros have, that brand of professional courtesy that mostly means not expressing a negative opinion of another's work publicly. From that perspective, and without empathizing with what prompted my break from that unspoken pact, it must have seemed like cannibalism to them.
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But how does setting up a GoFundMe criticize Mark Waid's shit 21st century Marvel Comics?

FROG said:
Erik Larsen, just before blocking me on Twitter, warned me not to turn on my fellow professionals. That was the final taboo. I knew what I was doing and I knew there was no going back.

Right is right and wrong is wrong.
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But you still shy away from criticizing mainstream work usually. I've at most seen you generalize.

But I will never not be surprised by how predatory, lazy, and hypocritical the Image founders have turned out to be.

* Todd McFarlane complained about exploiting creators and not giving them their due only to need to be sued by Neil Gaiman for his work on Spawn. Add to that McFarlane hasn't drawn comics in twenty five years.

* Erik Larsen at times following the company line only to go back to doing additional work for hire for DC and Marvel when the speculator bubble popped for a good three years. Larsen also was sure to back Todd McFarlane exploiting creators.

* Rob Liefeld. More shouldn't need to be said. But Bobby Boy regularly failed to complete work and was apparently tough to work for, which is rich considering he still cries about editors being mean to him.

* Marc Silvestri was literally upstaged by a talent, Mike Turner, that he recruited. Turner became bigger than Silvestri and when he attempted to take his creator owned properties Silvestri and Top Cow sued him and cost him more than a year.

* Jim Lee is bizarre. I don't hear lots of terrible things about him, Portacio, or Stroman and Valentino. The others make sense, but Lee was big and had tons people working for him. Weird, especially because a group of professionals seem to have a real axe to grind on him.
 
jspit2.0 said:
But how does setting up a GoFundMe criticize Mark Waid's shit 21st century Marvel Comics?

But you still shy away from criticizing mainstream work usually. I've at most seen you generalize.
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There seems to be a contemptuous line between pros and fans that I never understood. I guess it might have something to do with the fact that my generation of comics pros WERE fans who magically became pros, and there's the fear of losing that elevated status of PRO. You can see this terror reflected in the SJWs that call me "FORMER" comics artist, or "EX-DC Comics artist." That's the worst fate imaginable to them. It's projection.

Previous generations loved comics, but you never got the sense that they aspired to be comic book creators. It was just an outlet for their creativity that was going to happen one way or the other. I feel like that's sort of who I am. Comics are an outlet. It isn't the sum totality of my creativity, it's just one way to express myself.

Mark Waid was one of the first real fans that turned pro. He was in all of the letters columns. He read every book. He was the stereotypical nerdy fanboy turned professional that lead the way for a generation of creators similar to him. It's interesting that this whole ComicsGate thing was partially centered around him.

Anyhow, I had Elevated Professional Status, and I dared to exercise my power to help a fan "hurt" another Elevated Professional. This is anathema to comics pros.

When I did that, people panicked and realized I might do ANYTHING. Erik Larsen: "Don't you DARE."

But I don't criticize actual comics very often. I rarely mock individuals and their art unless they give me good reason. I do try to generalize, as you say. It still feels instinctively wrong to tear down someone's art.
 
Pilule Noire said:
Frog put out a terribly-angled car videoooo with Kritter riding shotgun:

He's spouting all these wacky ideas and poo-pooing his Cyberfrog franchise, presumably this is just a gentle satire of Zack.

I hope it's just satire, because his 90s-era alien anal probe idea is tragically bad.

It's not the 90s Frog! Stuff your anti-alien, girl power comic.
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It's a wonder these two lardasses fit into one car. Imagine the horrible stench.
 
Greed said:
I don't hold this against him. If people like Wenger tried to attach themselves to me and leech off my credibility while producing chickenscratch, I'd cut them loose too. What bothers me is the whole "I could have never seen this coming!" reaction.
Like, you knew Wenger couldn't create a good book. At no point did he give the impression that he could create anything other than a terrible book. Frog knew this, but he liked Wenger, so here we are.
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Ro Kabir explains the "Wenger situation"

 
YesNoMaybe said:
I never once thought of Frog as a YouTube critic reviewing individual comics. Expecting him to be one is quite odd.
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I never said he should. But expecting him to comment on artwork on a show called Comic Artist Pro secrets is weird how?

I do have to admit though, that the few times he's indulged its been very entertaining.

SaidNoOneEver said:
You don't find pros in any field publicly ragging on their peers except maybe politics and that's the gig there. Unless specifically paid to do so pro athletes rarely take shots at other pro athletes, executives, etc...
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That's factually untrue. Every competitive industry has people talking themselves up and critiquing others. Healthy arts are no different. Gordon Ramsey, Simon Cowel, and Martin Sorceses. To name three.

Criticism validates art and gives it meaning. Art stagnates without appreciation.
 
jspit2.0 said:
That's factually untrue. Every competitive industry has people talking themselves up and critiquing others. Healthy arts are no different. Gordon Ramsey, Simon Cowel, and Martin Sorceses. To name three.

Criticism validates art and gives it meaning. Art stagnates without appreciation.
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I meant publcily, like making Youtube videos shitting on your own peers. Don't see that too much in established fields. Everybody shits on everybody in private.
 
SaidNoOneEver said:
I meant publcily, like making Youtube videos shitting on your own peers. Don't see that too much in established fields. Everybody shits on everybody in private.
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Pro athletes do this all the time to their peers and executives. Just take the current Aaron Roger and Russel Wilson situations as examples. They don't have to use social media(even though they do sometimes), because they can do it through news organizations like ESPN.
 
SaidNoOneEver said:
I meant publcily, like making Youtube videos shitting on your own peers.
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All those people have made public statements evaluating their peers work, when it was presented to them.

SaidNoOneEver said:
Everybody shits on everybody in private.
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Eh, who said anything about shitting on people? Peer review is common and necessary. I do think it is interesting you say that, because I think that's how the modern comic writer/artist views even well structured, negative feed back of their work.

I understand that in the American/Canadian comic industry its an unspoken rule today that you don't provide meaningful critique in public.

It's a major cause for my having zero respect for them. You shouldn't cower at the thought of someone examining your work thoughtfully. If anything, a peer is preferable second to only a patron.

The Coon said:
Pro athletes do this all the time to their peers and executives. Just take the current Aaron Roger and Russel Wilson situations as examples. They don't have to use social media(even though they do sometimes), because they can do it through news organizations like ESPN.
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Absolutely. Pro sports have been ruined by all the athletes becoming friends.
 
jspit2.0 said:
I think the message is clear, @NasserRabadi13. Your next book needs a thicc 9ft woman.
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Next is Trixie 2 for sure coming this year. Then maybe Asyl 2, if Vic finally starts doing pages.

I've got one or two scripts in my back pocket: Miss Victory (me and the original artist split because we couldn't agree on terms), and a slasher comic called Behind You (artist was bad at communication and deadlines so we split).

CREEPSTERS is going to be my biggest campaign probably. At least I hope it is. I've gotten a few character designs in before pages begin, but can't show them off yet because they're going out in my newsletter in a couple weeks. No launch date yet on CREEPSTERS but it could be the next one after Trixie (sort of depends on Vic/Asyl 2).
 
NasserRabadi13 said:
Next is Trixie 2 for sure coming this year. Then maybe Asyl 2, if Vic finally starts doing pages.

I've got one or two scripts in my back pocket: Miss Victory (me and the original artist split because we couldn't agree on terms), and a slasher comic called Behind You (artist was bad at communication and deadlines so we split).

CREEPSTERS is going to be my biggest campaign probably. At least I hope it is. I've gotten a few character designs in before pages begin, but can't show them off yet because they're going out in my newsletter in a couple weeks. No launch date yet on CREEPSTERS but it could be the next one after Trixie (sort of depends on Vic/Asyl 2).
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Have Trixie turn into a thicc 9 foot woman and you'll join the "six-figures, bitch" club for sure ;)
 
Rupin said:
Or have Trixie fight a 9 foot tall thicc vampire woman that looks suspiciously like Lady Dimitrescu. That will double his chances Of successful
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FROG said:
Mark Waid was one of the first real fans that turned pro. He was in all of the letters columns. He read every book. He was the stereotypical nerdy fanboy turned professional that lead the way for a generation of creators similar to him. It's interesting that this whole ComicsGate thing was partially centered around him.
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A History diversion

The first fan who tried to break into comic seriously was Neal Adams in 1959. He got an interview with DC but he was told that the industry was closed. That there was plenty of old talent not working but looking for work and there was no chance (at that time) of anyone new getting in. Adams then managed to get low paying freelance work from Archie and they worked his way into newspaper strips as an assistant. He was eventually able to get work at DC in 1967.

The second fan I know of to turn pro successfully was Roy Thomas back in 1965. Thomas leveraged letter writing and fanzine work into a job offer from DC Comics. Mort Weisinger, the editor over the superman titles at the time, hired Thomas to be an editorial assistant. Stories then differ about what happened next. But immediately after he arrived in New York from St. Louis, he started pestering Stan Lee and got a job working at marvel a few days later. Thomas claims that working for DC was awful. The DC side is that he leveraged them to get into New York so he could then get an interview with Marvel. Either way, he broke in.

Then he immediately started bringing other fans and placing them at jobs in comics. He got Denny O'Neil and Gerry Conway jobs in comics. And alot of other people over the next ten years.

Meanwhile, over at DC, Mort Weisinger reached out to a 14 year old fan (Jim Shooter) and made him a writer for DC.

Then a couple years later, fan/fanzine people Marv Wolfman and Len Wein leveraged an "office tour" of DC comics into job offers.

One of the big reasons "fans" were able to get into comics in the mid=1960s is that comics had been dead for maybe ten years and nearly everyone working in them at that point was starting to get old. Comics wasn't a place where people coming out of school wanted to be given all the other jobs available for writers and artists at that time in New York. The pay was also bad. People working in comics were also so old and so "inbred" that training in outsiders was by that point difficult. Whereas outside writers didn't understand comics, the fans understood immediately the format and kind of what to do. I think the Batman TV series and the associated mini-boom in comics created the first need in many years for new people in comics.
 
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