#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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Yeah, but what makes its market prevent that from happening, or at least affect in the the scale as the comic market? Why hasn't it happen for Manga yet? I feel like it is happening subtly but due to the cultural barriers we just don't notice those elements, but I have nothing to back that fact.
The barrier to entry is different?
Working as a Mangaka vs working at any stage in comic book production is completely different (one writer/artist with an editor and a bunch of assistants vs. one writer and several artists that put different parts of the comic together (like an assembly line), all of whom are likely to rotate from story to story)

The former is heavily merit-based (influenced by Japanese corporate culture) and actually requires you build legitimate experience before striking out on your own, with no guarantee that you'll even get your project off the ground. The shit that let the dangerhairs swarm the stateside comics probably doesn't exist (at least to the scale it does here)
 
I'm pretty sure Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy. I think she's meant to be like some girl from the "real" world who winds up in comics. Her being named Gwen is to cash in on the popularity of the surprisingly successful Spider-Gwen.

The last I heard Gwenpool is based on Heather Antos.
 
Yeah, but what makes its market prevent that from happening, or at least affect in the the scale as the comic market? Why hasn't it happen for Manga yet? I feel like it is happening subtly but due to the cultural barriers we just don't notice those elements, but I have nothing to back that fact.
  1. There's no safety net. Manga companies can't rely on daddy Disney to keep them afloat if their books fail to sell.
  2. Books tend to be creator driven, not dictated by editorial mandate. When publishers do demand changes, they care about money more than woke politics.
  3. See below.

The barrier to entry is different?
More specifically, you can't get a job in manga simply for having the right opinions on Twitter or sucking enough dicks.
 
More specifically, you can't get a job in manga simply for having the right opinions on Twitter or sucking enough dicks.
I think you actually have to go to school for art, win competitions to establish yourself and build a portfolio, and then you become an assistant to an already established series before even thinking about doing your own.

You know, work, that mystery substance that these people are somehow allergic to.
 
That's actually interesting. I remember reading some smug article several years ago about how manga could never overtake American comics, because most volumes move less than 10k copies. At the time I had read that, it had already come to pass. I questioned it then, because every bookstore still has a thick manga selection, and yet I've never ever seen a pile of manga in a liquidation store.

They have a different production process so that they're probably at least breaking even on those 10K sales, whereas Marvel, to pick an example, often fails to hit that while simultaneously hugely overshipping to retailers and trying to push all kinds of bullshit like alternate covers, so there's a lot of inefficiency. I also doubt it has as much of an issue of huge dropoffs after first issues because of failing to meet the expectations of buyers.

I also don't see them endlessly retaining people who don't produce a buyable product. In comics, you see absolute losers, shitty artists who draw affronts to the senses, and who on top of that publicly expose their assholes in mentally ill troon tantrums, just to pick one dude, and nearly illiterate "writers" who shouldn't be trusted to write the ingredients on the packet of powder that comes with ramen noodles.

That shit isn't going to happen in Japan.

And yet, somehow, these completely unprofessional and clearly mentally ill idiots show up again and again in comics, despite producing unreadable, unviewable garbage that, more importantly, nobody buys.
 
Yeah, but what makes its market prevent that from happening, or at least affect in the the scale as the comic market? Why hasn't it happen for Manga yet? I feel like it is happening subtly but due to the cultural barriers we just don't notice those elements, but I have nothing to back that fact.

The biggest reason is Manga remains creator driven. Each Manga, each title is created by one person typically. And written and drawn by that person all the way through. That one persons politics and such may change over time and the Manga may reflect it. But there is no avenue for the SJW NPC’s to come in and Capture established properties and damage the branding in support of their agenda. The Manga doesn’t get handed off to a new Mangaka. When he or see stops writing it, it ends.
 
The biggest reason is Manga remains creator driven. Each Manga, each title is created by one person typically.
Sure, but there are still editors who can and do suggest characters and plot directions, and those can certainly change. But we haven't seen a plague of SJW editors either.
I'm more inclined to agree with @Mr. 0 that the process of getting into the industry (plus the general Japanese conformist mindset) tends to filter out the bomb-throwers.
Besides that, there's a very specific set of conditions that leads to an SJW incursion: a declining industry with a legacy of high cultural influence but low cash on hand and low numbers of people actually running the business. That's just not the case in manga.
 
I'm pretty sure Gwenpool isn't Gwen Stacy. I think she's meant to be like some girl from the "real" world who winds up in comics. Her being named Gwen is to cash in on the popularity of the surprisingly successful Spider-Gwen.

The last I heard Gwenpool is based on Heather Antos.

In the comic canon "Gwenpool" is not actually Gwen Stacy, however it's basically Gwen Stacy.

There was a cosplayer who dressed up as "Spider-Gwen" before there was a Spider-Gwen and that was someone at Marvel saw the idea and decided to make a comic of it. It was a little bit of a hit and to celebrate the success, Marvel rolled out ~ 20 or so comics with variant covers with different "Gwen" versions (like a Gwen-Doctor Strange, Gwen-hulk, etc). The "Gwen" version of Deadpool became popular in cosplay circles to a point where Marvel decided to make a story about that. Once they started to make a few issues they moved away from it being Gwen Stacy (her name actually being "Gwen Poole") and when she took off her mask they had her look different and suspiciously like a bit of a self-insert of the comic's editor (Heather Antos) although that was not the plan going in.

So what made Manga different and age better than comic books? Haven't read comic books yet, but I'm surprised how different those two markets are, ignoring cultural differences. Are Japanese people just oldfags who read from very old media? Is it because they have better marketing? Is it because of the titties plastered in each panel? Is there any reason why Manga's are seemingly more diverse, memorable and accessible despite looking more trashy in general; like, I don't want to be caught reading a manga than a comic book? How did this divergence begin? Why did Comic market take a different fate than the Manga market? I'm not asking why they are different, but rather when and why did the markets become different.

Ignoring cultural differences is hard because they're important, but to boil it down to it's simplest elements I would say as much.

Manga is more creative and more free-form than Comics are. Both can be "tropey" and "samey" but Comics substantially more than Manga; primarily because comics are often written by different people at different times and are frequently written "by committee". Manga usually goes until it's "done" where as comics are a franchise that have been going on forever. I can't stress enough that there are 80 years worth of Superman and Batman comics.

It's a bit of a simplification but most major comics for the last 80 years have followed a formula of "a person with a good heart reluctantly has to use their extra-ordinary power to stop people from committing evil at some personal cost." - This is Superman, this is The Hulk, this is Iron Man, this is Spider Man, this is Captain America, this is any superhero that has a message of "with great power comes great responsibility" which is nearly all of them. Because Comics are franchises not much happens over time in them, Superman has similar problems now to the problems he had in 1950. Additionally, they all fight crime which takes place in modern cities so most superheroes are based out of some fictional version of a major city (or just a real version of it).

Manga has similar tropes, but not nearly as many fit into the same neat little box as comics nor is the trope as limiting. The Manga trope is a "a very young person (usually a boy) discovers or cultivates a power that propels them into an adventure" which is a little more vague. Some of those adventures take Manga characters through a ninja society (Naruto), through a spirit realm (Bleach), or through all kinds of different nonsense (Dragonball). Although there are hardships, most Manga protagonists are active participants in their adventures and typically enjoy the things they do instead being burdened with it like in Comics.

Manga has a much deeper sense of progression because the stories aren't meant to go on forever like in Comics. Naruto (a long series in it's own right) follows the titular character from boyhood to manhood, from fledgling ninja trainee to full on leader of the ninja clans. The "new" Naruto comic is centered around his son, Boruto having his own coming of age tale and will (likely) deal with living in the shadow of a great man. Dragonball has a similar progression; from a young Goku as an aspiring martial artist to a much older one training to become a demi-god. Though the series Goku also becomes a father (to Gohan) and a grandfather (to Pan). Vegeta goes through an arc as a villan, than an ally, then also becomes a father of his own.

Comics don't have a sense of progression or even a sense of cohesion because they're constantly changing and "retconning" (declaring that previous things didn't happen and aren't canon). Comic writers aren't able to solidify arcs or tell straight stories because they typically don't own the characters they write for. For example, did Superman die? No he came back. Did Batman kill the Joker? No, that was a side thing. Instead of dying did Gwen Stacy become a spider-man instead? Yeah, in a different universe though. There's so many time jumps, alternate dimensions, and side stories it's hard to keep track of what characters actually do and it's hard to be invested when cool things they've done could become meaningless at a later date. To get around this there are numbers of "dimensions" where these characters exist and variant characters are said to exist in other dimensions. Currently (and generally) comic writers aren't very good at writing which compounds the problem even worse. Here are some later additions to comic book stories.

- A version of Ironman (called Iron Heart) that centers around RiRi Williams, a young black teen who is capable of making a better Iron Man suit and is smarter than Tony Stark. She also has no character flaws.
- A version of The Hulk that centers around a Korean Hulk that is even smarter, younger, and handsomer than Bruce Banner. He also does not have an Anger problem and can turn into the Hulk at-will, eliminating any conflict created by having a hard-to-control power.
- A version of Thor where Thor is a female scientist (Jane Foster, if you've seen the Thor movies). Instead of being smart or scientific, Jane immediately becomes a "girly girl" who likes making out with boys and shutting down "mansplainers". I wish I was joking.

There are several version of these that Marvel is staring to walk back due to dismal sales, but the problem remains there is only so much you can do with one character. Even if there were avenues for growth with these nearly-century-old characters; Marvel doesn't appear to have anyone working there with talent to bring it to life.

Manga is also substantially more fun. Fun in Comics is limited to a few degress of "wacky" with the most "fun" character being Deadpool, who's power is that he is aware he is in a comic book and breaks the fourth wall. At one point Marvel though this was so funny they were running 5 Deadpool comics a month; running it into the ground at a record pace. There are, a few fun things here and there in Comics (one good example - there's a Japanese version of Spider-man that has a fucking megazord that shows up from time to time) but generally not fun.

Manga however can go completely off the rails. The manga linked is about an over the top series of mahjong (think Japanese poker) battles with the main character being an actual Japanese prime minister - not a metaphor it's the real fucking guy. Not only does it not stop there, but it only starts there. From that same manga here's FUCKING GEORGE W BUSH (not to be confused with GEORGE H W BUSH). Putin shows up, the pope shows up, SUPER SAIYIN ADOLF HITLER SHOWS UP.

I could probably write a lot more words on this, but I think I should stop here as it's already borderline :autism:.
 
In the comic canon "Gwenpool" is not actually Gwen Stacy, however it's basically Gwen Stacy.

There was a cosplayer who dressed up as "Spider-Gwen" before there was a Spider-Gwen and that was someone at Marvel saw the idea and decided to make a comic of it. It was a little bit of a hit and to celebrate the success, Marvel rolled out ~ 20 or so comics with variant covers with different "Gwen" versions (like a Gwen-Doctor Strange, Gwen-hulk, etc). The "Gwen" version of Deadpool became popular in cosplay circles to a point where Marvel decided to make a story about that. Once they started to make a few issues they moved away from it being Gwen Stacy (her name actually being "Gwen Poole") and when she took off her mask they had her look different and suspiciously like a bit of a self-insert of the comic's editor (Heather Antos) although that was not the plan going in
I do give Gwenpool some credit for at least having a writer who seems to be aware of what a gimmick she is for the main series considering the overarching plot if the book is “Gwenpool gets into gimmicky misadventures and guest appearances from A-list heroes in an increasingly desperate effort to stay relevant against the real enemy of her story: cancellation.”

Plus it’s the only book I can think of where a nuMarvel writer was willing to have a scene like this:
0249DDA9-30AA-401C-B565-01DD1456034D.png

It’s probably the only nuMarvel book that I was a little sad to see go.
 
Manga is more creative and more free-form than Comics are. Both can be "tropey" and "samey" but Comics substantially more than Manga; primarily because comics are often written by different people at different times and are frequently written "by committee". Manga usually goes until it's "done" where as comics are a franchise that have been going on forever. I can't stress enough that there are 80 years worth of Superman and Batman comics.

That does make me want to ask this: are the various works of manga the intellectual property of the creators, or the publisher? I bring this up because many of the creators of many American characters did it as work for hire. For example, the Jay Garrick incarnation of the Flash was a creation of Gardner Fox and Harry Lampert while Bob Kanigher and Carmine Infantino created Barry Allen under the direction of Julius Schwartz (by committee, as you stated.) As such Superman, Batman, the Flash, etc. were largely associated with DC Comics and not their original creators whereas you cannot separate Dragon Ball franchise from Akira Toriyama, for example.

Let us not forget that American comics--particularly DC--had a vague sense of progression. The company stopped publication of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, and the other golden age heroes' solo titles in 1949, and they disappeared altogether by 1951-2. Superman and Batman maintained enough popularity to continue publication, I believe Wonder Woman stayed in publication to keep the rights from reverting to Marston's estate, and some like Aquaman and Green Arrow survived as backups in Adventure Comics. By 1956, the aforementioned Julius Schwartz believed that the readership turned over enough to create new versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and the Atom that were unrelated to their previous counterparts.

However, it was uneven as the demarcation of when the Golden Age adventures of Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman end and the Silver Age begins is a matter of debate among comic book historians. This likely set the stage for DC's continuity problems and rampant retcons that scared away non-:autism: normies whose main exposure were Superfriends or the DCAU, which were distillations of the comics lore. Marvel suffers similar problems, albeit for slightly different reasons.

Manga appears to avoid these problems for the reasons you listed, and because of their strong connection to individual creators. (Although Japan has many storied franchises like Ultraman, Kamen Rider, and Super Sentai to name a few.)
 
The best comparison to how Manga is structured and created would be American Newspaper Comic Strips. Creator controlled and owned, but distributed via an aggregate publisher.

And to answer @Jetpack Himmler question, the ownership with Manga will depend on the contracts between the creator and the publisher. But generally the creator holds a key piece of it. The point where the creator may lose creative control is when it is optioned for animeor film, and committee rule takes over. Manga is almost never a publisher hiring MangaKa as work for hire to create IP for the publisher in house. Rather Manga contracts with the creator to publish hisor her IP and work.
 
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It's a bit of a simplification but most major comics for the last 80 years have followed a formula of "a person with a good heart reluctantly has to use their extra-ordinary power to stop people from committing evil at some personal cost." - This is Superman, this is The Hulk, this is Iron Man, this is Spider Man, this is Captain America, this is any superhero that has a message of "with great power comes great responsibility" which is nearly all of them. Because Comics are franchises not much happens over time in them, Superman has similar problems now to the problems he had in 1950. Additionally, they all fight crime which takes place in modern cities so most superheroes are based out of some fictional version of a major city (or just a real version of it).

Manga has similar tropes, but not nearly as many fit into the same neat little box as comics nor is the trope as limiting. The Manga trope is a "a very young person (usually a boy) discovers or cultivates a power that propels them into an adventure" which is a little more vague. Some of those adventures take Manga characters through a ninja society (Naruto), through a spirit realm (Bleach), or through all kinds of different nonsense (Dragonball). Although there are hardships, most Manga protagonists are active participants in their adventures and typically enjoy the things they do instead being burdened with it like in Comics.
Keep in mind you've only described one type of each (capeshit and shonen) when there's a whole variety of shit to choose from (your description doesn't apply to Ghost in the Shell, for example, and Archie somehow has the superpower to stay a slice of life comic since the 1940s).

Comics don't have a sense of progression or even a sense of cohesion because they're constantly changing and "retconning" (declaring that previous things didn't happen and aren't canon). Comic writers aren't able to solidify arcs or tell straight stories because they typically don't own the characters they write for. For example, did Superman die? No he came back. Did Batman kill the Joker? No, that was a side thing. Instead of dying did Gwen Stacy become a spider-man instead? Yeah, in a different universe though. There's so many time jumps, alternate dimensions, and side stories it's hard to keep track of what characters actually do and it's hard to be invested when cool things they've done could become meaningless at a later date. To get around this there are numbers of "dimensions" where these characters exist and variant characters are said to exist in other dimensions. Currently (and generally) comic writers aren't very good at writing which compounds the problem even worse.
This whole paragraph describes modern Dragon Ball to a T, even after Toriyama resumed writing duties.
 
Keep in mind you've only described one type of each (capeshit and shonen) when there's a whole variety of shit to choose from (your description doesn't apply to Ghost in the Shell, for example, and Archie somehow has the superpower to stay a slice of life comic since the 1940s).

Well, those are the only kind that matter these days anyway...
 
Keep in mind you've only described one type of each (capeshit and shonen) when there's a whole variety of shit to choose from (your description doesn't apply to Ghost in the Shell, for example, and Archie somehow has the superpower to stay a slice of life comic since the 1940s).


This whole paragraph describes modern Dragon Ball to a T, even after Toriyama resumed writing duties.

Right, I was speaking generally. There will be weird little exceptions and not everything fits into neat little boxes, but I thought it was a sound overview. Capeshit and Shonen are (I feel at least) far and away the most representative of their genres and a good point to view the "Manga vs Comics" differences through. You're right there are other experiences though, but when you say "Comics" I don't think anyone's first thought goes to Archie (before Superman/Batman, etc). Marvel isn't pumping out 3 Archie movies a year (although they did reboot the comic and have that weird ass TV show). You would have a hard time talking about just "Manga vs Comics" and include all of the different types without including external media (TV, Movies, and for Japan - Anime) which just turns into a bigger mess.

DBZ did a fuck ton of retcons but still is no where near the level of standard comics; where Goku-616 could die and then be replaced by Goku-617 (who is black, because Marvel) for a few years and then have Goku-616 come back because sales were bad. It's "fine" (not really fine but whatever) to have continuity errors; it's a different thing entirely when you're retconning because you didn't like the previous spider-man's story and want to replace it with your own and have to get there through a convoluted way (that Peter Parker got sucked through a time vortex/died/whatever); only for the next guy to to the same thing and repeating it for 60 years and expecting people to treat it like a coherent narrative.
 
Right, I was speaking generally. There will be weird little exceptions and not everything fits into neat little boxes, but I thought it was a sound overview. Capeshit and Shonen are (I feel at least) far and away the most representative of their genres and a good point to view the "Manga vs Comics" differences through. You're right there are other experiences though, but when you say "Comics" I don't think anyone's first thought goes to Archie (before Superman/Batman, etc). Marvel isn't pumping out 3 Archie movies a year (although they did reboot the comic and have that weird ass TV show). You would have a hard time talking about just "Manga vs Comics" and include all of the different types without including external media (TV, Movies, and for Japan - Anime) which just turns into a bigger mess.

DBZ did a fuck ton of retcons but still is no where near the level of standard comics; where Goku-616 could die and then be replaced by Goku-617 (who is black, because Marvel) for a few years and then have Goku-616 come back because sales were bad. It's "fine" (not really fine but whatever) to have continuity errors; it's a different thing entirely when you're retconning because you didn't like the previous spider-man's story and want to replace it with your own and have to get there through a convoluted way (that Peter Parker got sucked through a time vortex/died/whatever); only for the next guy to to the same thing and repeating it for 60 years and expecting people to treat it like a coherent narrative.
To be honest, I think you're illustrating an issue where it's not just the issues with the industry but also how people perceive them. Like even if they magically fixed all that somehow....how would you know? Everyone would just be idiots complaining to each other about "rebooting resetting relaunch" or whatever other R words people misuse all the time.

Some of the stuff you're saying is confusing me as a comic reader because it's already built on misunderstandings and stereotypes of the medium and genre.
 
That does make me want to ask this: are the various works of manga the intellectual property of the creators, or the publisher? I bring this up because many of the creators of many American characters did it as work for hire. For example, the Jay Garrick incarnation of the Flash was a creation of Gardner Fox and Harry Lampert while Bob Kanigher and Carmine Infantino created Barry Allen under the direction of Julius Schwartz (by committee, as you stated.) As such Superman, Batman, the Flash, etc. were largely associated with DC Comics and not their original creators whereas you cannot separate Dragon Ball franchise from Akira Toriyama, for example.

Japan seems to have pro-artist laws when it comes to who owns what characters (and music, in the case of video games) but it's also that American writers don't often create characters, instead trying to recycle or modify existing ones because the major comic book companies are incredibly risk-averse and not remarkably talented even if they wanted to (to a point where a fair amount of new characters come from Kickstarted projects). The American companies seem to think that having other people become some superheroes (The Hulk, Thor, and Spider-Man come to mind) instead of having new superheros is what people want and its also a very cost effective way to pay less royalties to writers. The furthest they'll typically stray is an "alternate version" of a hero that already exists (X-23 being a wolverine clone, a super "girl", a spider "woman", a bat "girl") etc. I think more than anything else it's this stiffness/staleness that moves people away from comics and toward Manga as Manga routinely has new characters and stories.

To be honest, I think you're illustrating an issue where it's not just the issues with the industry but also how people perceive them. Like even if they magically fixed all that somehow....how would you know? Everyone would just be idiots complaining to each other about "rebooting resetting relaunch" or whatever other R words people misuse all the time.

Some of the stuff you're saying is confusing me as a comic reader because it's already built on misunderstandings and stereotypes of the medium and genre.

Directly as a comic book reader, it's confusing because it's confusing. To try and use an incredibly specific example.

Superman (Traditional) - Clark Kent, young, has an on/off thing with Lois lane, who does not know he is Superman
Superman (Rebirth) - Clark Kent, older with a beard, married to Lois with a son named Jon
Superman (New 52) - Clark Kent, same as Traditional with a new outfit - doesn't fuck with Lois and is instead with Wonder Woman
Superman (1992) - Clark Kent, traditional, except he died (not for long, though)

These are all the same series released from the same company that all try and tell different (and conflicting) stories that aren't consistent with each other. As a comic reader, I'm sure you get it but if you were just getting into it? It would be weirdly incomprehensible.

Like imagine you just saw "Superman's son" (his son Jon, by the way, not his son Jason from the movie), thought it sounded interesting and googled it - this is what you would find.

When the Clark Kent and Lois Lane from the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths reality find themselves in the post-Flashpoint reality after the Convergence event, it becomes necessary for them to adopt a different last name from their counterparts in that reality (who each eventually met their own demise). They initially use "White" (beginning in Superman: Lois & Clark), possibly as an homage to their Daily Planet boss Perry White, and use this name when living on the west coast of the United States while Jon is growing up. Later, when they move to Hamilton County (just upstate from Metropolis), they begin using the more generic "Smith" (Superman vol 4).

Jon's first name is taken after his paternal adoptive grandfather, Jonathan Kent (deceased), and his middle name comes from his maternal grandfather, Sam Lane.

It's nonsense to a non reader, or to a light reader and the main problem I'm trying to point out. This specifically is a follow up (convergence arc) in 2015 that is following up an arc that ended in 1985 (infinite crisis).

And that's just a specific example.
 
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Due to the primary lull in autism on the CG front (I was expecting Maggs to do some more shit over the holidays like her Thanksgiving false flagging, but alas...) and the actual constructive conversations occurring to fill the void, what do you guys think of the "Even if something new comes out that you don't like, it doesn't destroy the original you enjoyed" argument?

I primarily see it used by people who criticize people offended by the ways a property is being misused (Ghostbusters, Star Wars, every stolen SJW property lately) and while it is functionally true, I often see the people making this claim being hypocritical when it comes to IPs they have more attachment to.
 
Directly as a comic book reader, it's confusing because it's confusing. To try and use an incredibly specific example.

Superman (Traditional) - Clark Kent, young, has an on/off thing with Lois lane, who does not know he is Superman
Superman (Rebirth) - Clark Kent, older with a beard, married to Lois with a son named Jon
Superman (New 52) - Clark Kent, same as Traditional with a new outfit - doesn't fuck with Lois and is instead with Wonder Woman
Superman (1992) - Clark Kent, traditional, except he died (not for long, though)

These are all the same series released from the same company that all try and tell different (and conflicting) stories that aren't consistent with each other. As a comic reader, I'm sure you get it but if you were just getting into it? It would be weirdly incomprehensible.

Like imagine you just saw "Superman's son" (his son Jon, by the way, not his son Jason from the movie), thought it sounded interesting and googled it - this is what you would find.



It's nonsense to a non reader, or to a light reader and the main problem I'm trying to point out. This specifically is a follow up (convergence arc) in 2015 that is following up an arc that ended in 1985 (infinite crisis).

And that's just a specific example.
There has only been one Clark Kent/Superman across his multiple mainstream comic appearances since 1986 despite any tweaks that have happened in the meantime. All those changes you described were plot developments.

Also nobody remembers the Superman Returns movie.
 
Due to the primary lull in autism on the CG front (I was expecting Maggs to do some more shit over the holidays like her Thanksgiving false flagging, but alas...) and the actual constructive conversations occurring to fill the void, what do you guys think of the "Even if something new comes out that you don't like, it doesn't destroy the original you enjoyed" argument?

I primarily see it used by people who criticize people offended by the ways a property is being misused (Ghostbusters, Star Wars, every stolen SJW property lately) and while it is functionally true, I often see the people making this claim being hypocritical when it comes to IPs they have more attachment to.

The original may still exist, and it may still be as good as ever, but if the new thing sucks that doesn't make it suck less.
 
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