#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[damian]

YaBoi mentiones toward the end of this video that he is closing down his Patreon:

He also shills this channel for a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AGq7bm-x4teGcvQonvnPw

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Why Ms. Marvel looks like she is a granny in her mid-late 60's ?

1. She is always drawn with terrible posture, which may be the result of her powers or simply artist incompetence.
2. Marvel artists aren't allowed to draw female characters sexy anymore. Most female characters were changed to be either butch (She Hulk, Captain Marvel, Kitty Pryde) or fat (Squirrel Girl). However, because Ms. Marvel is special, they draw her thin and curveless instead, making her seem like a frail old woman instead of the vital 20-something she's supposed to be.
3. Power comes from the body and Ms. Marvel's costume not only covers ever square inch of her body, but it also fails accentuate any of the things we associate with youth, good health and strength.

 

[RockVolnutt]

1. She is always drawn with terrible posture, which may be the result of her powers or simply artist incompetence.
2. Marvel artists aren't allowed to draw female characters sexy anymore. Most female characters were changed to be either butch (She Hulk, Captain Marvel, Kitty Pryde) or fat (Squirrel Girl). However, because Ms. Marvel is special, they draw her thin and curveless instead, making her seem like a frail old woman instead of the vital 20-something she's supposed to be.
3. Power comes from the body and Ms. Marvel's costume not only covers ever square inch of her body, but it also fails accentuate any of the things we associate with youth, good health and strength.

Slight correction: Kamala's like 16 or so. She's in the same vague age bracket that Miles Morales is currently in.

 

[AnOminous]

3. Power comes from the body and Ms. Marvel's costume not only covers ever square inch of her body, but it also fails accentuate any of the things we associate with youth, good health and strength.

These morons don't understand that people don't want to pay money to look at completely unappealing uggos who look nothing like superheroes.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Slight correction: Kamala's like 16 or so. She's in the same vague age bracket that Miles Morales is currently in.

I was told she got aged up during one of the big events, but it could also be that she's different ages in different books so they avoid the sticky question of "Why are her conservative muslim parents okay with her ditching high school and palling around the world with a bunch of teenage boys?"

(well, besides the fact that the "muslim" writer is a blonde american woman who converted to islam and thus didn't grow up in a muslim household)

 

[RockVolnutt]

I was told she got aged up during one of the big events, but it could also be that she's different ages in different books so they avoid the sticky question of "Why are her conservative muslim parents okay with her ditching high school and palling around the world with a bunch of teenage boys?"

(well, besides the fact that the "muslim" writer is a blonde american woman who converted to islam and thus didn't grow up in a muslim household)

Nope. There's no aging up or anything like that. Still just a teenage girl.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

A good Miss Marvel story would be one in which she deals with Islamist extremists and the fundamental tenets of her own religion.

 

[Water-T]

I was told she got aged up during one of the big events

There's an older version of Kamala (in her 50s or 60s) in the new Exiles comic, but it was from an alternate reality, and she got killed off by the 6th issue or so.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Honestly, this guy really has the points down for the comparison between manga and comics.
View attachment 620995

Of all the points he gets right, he gets the main one wrong. Manga will not overtake comics in 3-5 years. Manga overtook comics by 2012 by most estimates; some even earlier. In 2017 it's estimated manga generated $570 million compared to comic book's $355 million.

Those values are comic store order totals, so its slightly inflated by Marvel's over-shipping tactics and they still come out behind. If you look at the year over year; it has Graphic novels extending their lead each year and there's no reason to think this won't just get bigger. This is also just North America, there's 0 reason to think that Comics would overtake Manga in any other part of the world (Certainly not any Asian countries).

One thing that cannot be over-stated about Manga is how easy it is to get into; you just find a series and buy book #1 and keep going if you like it. Older comics are incredibly hard to track down and it's hard to tell what specific issue you're looking for. For example, if you wanted to know about Miles Morales (aka the black spiderman) you'd would have to tracked down Ultimate Comics : Fallout #4 (from 2011, $20 on ebay) and then start tracking down Ultimate Spiderman #1 (from 2011, $12 on ebay) which is a prequel to Fallout #4.

There's also Miles Morales : Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Comics : Spider-Man, and Cataclysm : Ultimate Spider-Man which are not to be confused with the Non-Miles Spider-Mans, like Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Superior Spider-Man, or Web of Spider-Man - and those are just the ones that came out a similar time (a between 2010-2015). This does not include any other annuals or crossovers that either (of the many) Spider-Mans were involved with. Just look at this shit. Compare it to Bleach which is just a single book that goes from #1-686 in order.

If you were playing catch up (and you are, as Miles is from 2011 and Bleach is from 2004[in English]) a copy of the first three chapters of bleach would set you back $10.20 and contains 576 pages compared to the "Miles Morales Ultimate Spider-Man Ultimate Collection Book 1" will set you back $31.50 for 400 pages.

Manga is easier to collect, easier to follow, is way-less preachy, less expensive per page, and actually overtook the comics industry years ago.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I would argue that the premise of someone completely removed from comics wanting to get into them is like trying to find someone feverishly into typewriters.

Beyond the politics of the given writer, the classic problem since the 90s has been getting someone into comics at all. The publishers have their heads up their asses so far that they forgot where their butter used to be breaded. Comics are not mainstream, but comic book characters are, strangely enough.

If they actually had to worry about the mass market, then they would make more accessible plotlines. But since their current audience is autistic and dumb enough to put up all the red string, things will never get fixed.

You're right. It's a bit like games at the moment. You have the casuals who are large in number and want to play games, but don't buy anything that isn't the latest fad. You have the gamers who are the people you think of. Then you have the whales, the less than 1% who will throw 5 or 6 digits into a single game.

For obvious reasons, most companies are chasing the whales and casuals, both of which are fickle and see indifferent to quality as long as the game is popular.

People like me are comic casuals, and the big 2 proved long ago they can't be trusted to not double dip on the comic fans with all the stuff discussed.

 

[Incredible Crisis]

You're right. It's a bit like games at the moment. You have the casuals who are large in number and want to play games, but don't buy anything that isn't the latest fad. You have the gamers who are the people you think of. Then you have the whales, the less than 1% who will throw 5 or 6 digits into a single game.

For obvious reasons, most companies are chasing the whales and casuals, both of which are fickle and see indifferent to quality as long as the game is popular.

People like me are comic casuals, and the big 2 proved long ago they can't be trusted to not double dip on the comic fans with all the stuff discussed.

Here's something similar I've observed, at least with DC and their attempts to get weird comics to trend.

A trend in the past couple of years is an old comic getting revived (or a non comic IP getting a comic) with story by some hot shit Twitter celebrity/non comics industry writer and artwork by someone way overqualified for the subject matter. The #1 gets hyped up to all hell, sells well, and then no one cares about the remaining issues beyond some attention grabbing side element.

This happened with the Flintstones comic. It's a property everyone knows, written by a guy primarily known for non comic book work (Mark Russell). It got a lot of buzz at first, then got some non comics press for an issue featuring gay cavemen and an associated trestie about how gay people are not all that bad, and then people forgot about it. It won some awards, but that's it.

Who was this comic for? Who were any of these hyper realistic Hanna Barbera adaptations for? I think DC fundamentally doesn't understand what the casuals want.

Comic "whales" are probably either collectors or people who follow everything. And were they receptive to these new adaptations? Do they only want Batman?

I think they're just trying literally anything that will work, while using the same tools they use to make repetitive garbage of their own IP. And people are just not buying it. It will take a serious reexamination of their corporate strategy to stop sinking into the quicksand they set up for themselves.

 

[AnOminous]

I think they're just trying literally anything that will work, while using the same tools they use to make repetitive garbage of their own IP.

Sounds more like they're trying everything that won't work, and then when it predictably doesn't, doubling down on it while screaming that everyone is Nazis.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

This happened with the Flintstones comic. It's a property everyone knows, written by a guy primarily known for non comic book work (Mark Russell). It got a lot of buzz at first, then got some non comics press for an issue featuring gay cavemen and an associated trestie about how gay people are not all that bad, and then people forgot about it. It won some awards, but that's it.

Who was this comic for? Who were any of these hyper realistic Hanna Barbera adaptations for? I think DC fundamentally doesn't understand what the casuals want.

The hyper-realistic Hanna-Barbera stuff was made for people who knew the characters and were receptive to a little tweaking of the legacy, so to speak. It's not too different from what led to Space Ghost Coast to Coast and Harvey Birdman, if you think about it.

 

[Incredible Crisis]

The hyper-realistic Hanna-Barbera stuff was made for people who knew the characters and were receptive to a little tweaking of the legacy, so to speak. It's not too different from what led to Space Ghost Coast to Coast and Harvey Birdman, if you think about it.

The thing is that Space Ghost and Harvey Birdman were actually funny and well written for the most part. And they were not soapboxes.

 

[TowinKarz]

Comic "whales" are probably either collectors or people who follow everything. And were they receptive to these new adaptations? Do they only want Batman?

I think they're just trying literally anything that will work, while using the same tools they use to make repetitive garbage of their own IP. And people are just not buying it. It will take a serious reexamination of their corporate strategy to stop sinking into the quicksand they set up for themselves.

It's the 90's crash all over again, except the driving force behind the over-hyped over-produced "new numbuh onez!" is not "Put them all in a sealed bag, wait 40 years, and it'll be worth enough to retire on!" collector bullshit, but "Show everyone in 40 years when we're all pink-haired tranny robots that YOU were one of the first to embrace the "right side" of history!" SocJus bullshit.

Comics are floundering like video games not just for the embrace of toxic identity politics but trying to make microtransactions and milking rabid fans/collectors the PRIMARY means of funding, not a vast majority of casual consumers who are disincentivized to buy when" you can play, but you gotta pay to win"/"you'll be hoeplessly lost on the plot without reading 3 other titles that may go bust in a year anyway" is in effect.

These industries are dying because they're appealing to slices of the market that are tiny, people buying comics to make a political statement and rabid fans who will collect ANYTHING their favorite IP brands aren't enough to sustain you, but they just keep on trying anyway.... sure they can bend the 90% of casual fans to their side by political browbeating and name calling..... even as the decline continues, if not accelerates.

WHERE they learned this economic "model" is a mystery indeed.

 

[QB 290]

It's the 90's crash all over again, except the driving force behind the over-hyped over-produced "new numbuh onez!" is not "Put them all in a sealed bag, wait 40 years, and it'll be worth enough to retire on!" collector bullshit, but "Show everyone in 40 years when we're all pink-haired tranny robots that YOU were one of the first to embrace the "right side" of history!" SocJus bullshit.

Comics are floundering like video games not just for the embrace of toxic identity politics but trying to make microtransactions and jerking off rabid fans/collectors the PRIMARY means of funding, not a vast majority of casual consumers who are disincentivized to buy when" you can play, but you gotta pay to win"/"you'll be hoeplessly lost on the plot without reading 3 other titles that may go bust in a year anyway" is in effect.

These industries are dying because they're appealing to slices of the market that are tiny, people buying comics to make a political statement and rabid fans who will collect ANYTHING their favorite IP brands aren't enough to sustain you, but they just keep on trying anyway.... sure they can bend the 90% of casual fans to their side by political browbeating and name calling..... even as the decline continues, if not accelerates.

WHERE they learned this economic "model" is a mystery indeed.

There's also the immortal rule of selling media; If it isn't fun to read/watch/play, nobody wants it. Nobody. If there's one uniting factor between people of any belief or skin colour, it's that everyone likes fun shit.
Complaining about politics or racism is not fun, just ask the people who dedicate their lives to it and are depressed and miserable 24/7

 

[Tanner Glass]

There's also the immortal rule of selling media; If it isn't fun to read/watch/play, nobody wants it. Nobody. If there's one uniting factor between people of any belief or skin colour, it's that everyone likes fun shit.
Complaining about politics or racism is not fun, just ask the people who dedicate their lives to it and are depressed and miserable 24/7

Not only that, but if you're worried about how other people perceive your work with regards to gender/race; you severely limit yourself.

Can't have a woman as a hero, because you don't want her to get hit, lose, or have flaws.
Can't have a woman as a villain, because she can't have flaws and no women are evil.
Can't have a woman as a side character either, because she should be more than a love interest or a pretty face.

You can replace "woman" with any "protected class" and it would be the same. You see a lot of this restraint in the current year; and it's never good. Anything a "sensitivity reader" thinks is good is actually absolute trash and should be regarded as such.

There are lot of ways that complaining about politics or racism can be fun; typically people who really care about that stuff though aren't talented enough writers to pull it off. 1984 is a very good book that tackles a serious problem (and one that's prevalent today) in an entertaining and engaging manner, for example.

 

[HiddenFist]

It's the 90's crash all over again, except the driving force behind the over-hyped over-produced "new numbuh onez!" is not "Put them all in a sealed bag, wait 40 years, and it'll be worth enough to retire on!" collector bullshit, but "Show everyone in 40 years when we're all pink-haired tranny robots that YOU were one of the first to embrace the "right side" of history!" SocJus bullshit.

Comics are floundering like video games not just for the embrace of toxic identity politics but trying to make microtransactions and jerking off rabid fans/collectors the PRIMARY means of funding, not a vast majority of casual consumers who are disincentivized to buy when" you can play, but you gotta pay to win"/"you'll be hoeplessly lost on the plot without reading 3 other titles that may go bust in a year anyway" is in effect.

These industries are dying because they're appealing to slices of the market that are tiny, people buying comics to make a political statement and rabid fans who will collect ANYTHING their favorite IP brands aren't enough to sustain you, but they just keep on trying anyway.... sure they can bend the 90% of casual fans to their side by political browbeating and name calling..... even as the decline continues, if not accelerates.

WHERE they learned this economic "model" is a mystery indeed.

This is why when people with that progressive mindset infect any company or industry, you can expect this kind of bullshit and quality decline of said industry/company. Most of the writing is filled with nothing but hamfisted politics and preaching, Mary/Marty Sue characters, and fan-fiction level of quality. Many of them do not care about the medium, have any history of it at all, or even respect it, they just want to take control of it to push their damn agenda and kick out those with different viewpoints. They push out and block those with different opinions/beliefs/ ideologies and are willing to slander and destroy someone's reputation to do so. They are only making the products not for the majority of the audience, but only themselves which is why I am laughing at any industry that keeps doing this. The blatant lack of professionalism from them is not surprising which revolves around blocking, insulting, accusing everyone they don't like/care for of every ism/phobic, getting butthurt from actual criticism, and mocking the core audience.

The sooner the comic industry crashes again, the better I say. Many of them wouldn't last long in other industries and would rely on nothing but patreon bucks.

 

[TowinKarz]

This is why when people with that progressive mindset infect any company or industry, you can expect this kind of bullshit and quality decline of said industry/company.

It's why I don't ultimately fear some social-Marxist takeover of the industry, leaving aside if that was ever an actual thing or just a conspiracy theory. See, even if they were to successfully get into the head positions of the entertainment industry, nobody would buy what they made because they don't know how to MAKE things that are appealing and entertaining.

They only know how to hawk empty political platitudes, they didn't LEARN their politics, they never studied history, or political theory, or even polled a room full of average people. They just absorbed a nice-sounding but impractical ideology from self-appointed social geniuses.

So, having not learned it, and being unable to defend their positions logically, or even explain them without spouting an endless list of buzzwords or their fists clenching, they can't teach it either.

They can only do what was done to them, yell, scream, make a scene and hope that converts the dull masses. And while that may sell for the edge factor for a couple issues, the public appetite quickly sours and you're left with new-age commies whining that nobody is buying their propaganda and how this is just more proof of the inherent decadence of western pop culture as the people abandoned them, the genius revolutionary class, and flocked to "trash" like Spongebob instead of "Ivan the little red car who defeated the false consciousness programming of Detroit"

These socialist-regressives are cut from the same cloth as 50's commie sympathizers and 30's actual really communist commies, they fundamentally don't understand their fellow man has opinions, to them, their fellow man is a sheep and will be easily guided once we superior thinkers subvert the means of production and takeover all the industries.

Didn't work them

Won't work now

Will never ever EVER work.

90% they can't get into, and the remaining 10% they can, through academic/economic nepotism, not skill, they decisively drive right into the ground.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It's why I don't ultimately fear some social-Marxist takeover of the industry, leaving aside if that was ever an actual thing or just a conspiracy theory. See, even if they were to successfully get into the head positions of the entertainment industry, nobody would buy what they made because they don't know how to MAKE things that are appealing and entertaining.

That's not really the concern (well, unless you liked the thing in question), the problem is when they apply blacklists and other means of control. Harder to do now, but it still happens.