#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[CheezzyMach]

More likely is that Zoe Quinn has an extensive web of connections, as proven in Goobergalten, and she used them to get her a nepotism hire at Marvel Comics.

Just as likely that she's just desperate for cash and will thus work for the peanuts Marvel pays it's employees TBH.

HULK SMASH PUNY BAT-MAN-MAN!"

Sorry, had to.....


But yeah, it's shocking that in the last 3 years DC has gone from "May be able to survive once Marvel finishes woking itself to death" to treading water in the open ocean along with Marvel hoping he can at least have the satisfaction of drowning SECOND.

TBH I kinda doubt that, I looked up sales figures recently and Marvel accounts for 41% of all comic book sales DC is 2nd place with about 26%.

I'm starting to think if the industry does collapse Marvel will be the last one standing.

 

[Jub-Jub]

there's no attempt, for example, to restore the 10% reduction Diamond applies to returnable comics (seen with asterisks in our charts), or eliminate comics known to have been sent to non-retail outlets like Loot Crate.

Comicchron saved themselves a bunch of work https://kiwifarms.net/threads/loot-...s-but-promises-to-ship-remaining-boxes.59619/

I forgot, I do keep an Excel sheet to keep track of Batman's sales:
View attachment 888893

Looking at the prices, it stays $3 until #50 where it's bumped up to $5 due to hype and afterwards the new price is $4. Was their any reason why #75 was bumped up to $5?

The top 10 price points got me interested so i checked out averages for the past 19 months

 

[damian]

Speaking of which, how are those Bendis books doing?

I havent updated it in a while, get back to you on it later.

Was their any reason why #75 was bumped up to $5?

They always bump up the price every 25 issues, legacy pricing. Just check the prices for Issue #25 in DC, they get a price and page bump.

 

[Jub-Jub]

They always bump up the price every 25 issues, legacy pricing. Just check the prices for Issue #25 in DC, they get a price and page bump.

Ah, I missed that one. Only saw the lenticulars above it for the higher price.

 

[Garm]

I’ve been following this quite closely (since Ya Boi’s channel blew up in EARLY 201. I can say that this isn’t something you can just “dip your toe into”.

I will see how deep I get into this. It seems like comics have deeper structural problems than simply SJW's are writing them. But this may well ensnare me.

 

[Adamska]

I will see how deep I get into this. It seems like comics have deeper structural problems than simply SJW's are writing them. But this may well ensnare me.

The biggest problems to me are the following:

1. Too many books; a lot of the bigger heroes get like 3-5 fucking books a month, and if you want to tell epic stories, you're expecting people to actually deal with this shit. It makes the bar higher to get into comics.
2. Who gives a shit about this guy; stop making or forcing books that don't sell. No matter how hard you try, you aren't gonna make Captain Marvel or whatever B/C lister a new A lister. You're just wasting money, paper, and contractors' time.
3. Limited distribution to common markets; basically, you're only finding them at hobby stores, and you won't really find comics at say a bigger super store, magazine shops, or any other common vectors where print media sell.
4. Price; bitch I ain't paying 5 bucks for a floppie. I would and do pay 25 for actual trade books or longer novellas, because I get more content and my book tends to last longer. I legitimately love my old essentials books for this reason, though I'll admit I'd prefer my stuff to be like 20 or so usually.
5. Noncommitment. Either keep to being episodic or go longform with growth and shit; don't do that half-ass this shit and retcon it to keep status quo to try and boost sales you pigfuckers.

There's others, but these are the most obvious flaws to me.

 

[huckbeine]

Hi. Late and Gay. I'll be taking a look this thread.

I've been checking out Comicsgate stuff lately. Do any of these guys have a solution to the "Status Quo is God" problem that corporate comics have? What is the point of having epic storylines if they don't actually change anything?

No, even the big 2 doesn't have a solution.

In fact, there are 2 instances in time that the Big 2 were warned in advance in what is happening to the comics industry, 1st is the 90s comic industry crash that almost shut the Big 2's doors, 2nd was the early 2000's with the anime boom, started by Gundam Wing. Instead of having some self-reflection, the big 2 doubled down and started to fleece the comic book collectors to increase money and sales.

PS. I love the fact, that one of Marvel's trend-chasing gimmick was manga marvel (when their artists are shit at manga, they could legitimately hire manga artists to make comics for them), and now trying to attach themselves on the AOTS like AoT.

 

[Garm]

The biggest problems to me are the following:

1. Too many books; a lot of the bigger heroes get like 3-5 fucking books a month, and if you want to tell epic stories, you're expecting people to actually deal with this shit. It makes the bar higher to get into comics.
2. Who gives a shit about this guy; stop making or forcing books that don't sell. No matter how hard you try, you aren't gonna make Captain Marvel or whatever B/C lister a new A lister. You're just wasting money, paper, and contractors' time.
3. Limited distribution to common markets; basically, you're only finding them at hobby stores, and you won't really find comics at say a bigger super store, magazine shops, or any other common vectors where print media sell.
4. Price; bitch I ain't paying 5 bucks for a floppie. I would and do pay 25 for actual trade books or longer novellas, because I get more content and my book tends to last longer. I legitimately love my old essentials books for this reason, though I'll admit I'd prefer my stuff to be like 20 or so usually.
5. Noncommitment. Either keep to being episodic or go longform with growth and shit; don't do that half-ass this shit and retcon it to keep status quo to try and boost sales you pigfuckers.

There's others, but these are the most obvious flaws to me.

No, even the big 2 doesn't have a solution.

In fact, there are 2 instances in time that the Big 2 were warned in advance in what is happening to the comics industry, 1st is the 90s comic industry crash that almost shut the Big 2's doors, 2nd was the early 2000's with the anime boom, started by Gundam Wing. Instead of having some self-reflection, the big 2 doubled down and started to fleece the comic book collectors to increase money and sales.

PS. I love the fact, that one of Marvel's trend-chasing gimmick was manga marvel (when their artists are shit at manga, they could legitimately hire manga artists to make comics for them), and now trying to attach themselves on the AOTS like AoT.

I think part of the solution would be to allow the characters to age and eventually retire. If Magneto's back story is still him being a Holocaust survivor, he should be pushing 90 by now. He's survived alien invasions and fighting Apocalypse. Magneto should be going "I've seen some weird shit in my time. I've rethought some stuff."

I want growth in the characters is my point.

Most of my problems are the same as Brian Clevingers. (http://www.atomic-robo.com/about)

 

[Tanner Glass]

I think part of the solution would be to allow the characters to age and eventually retire. If Magneto's back story is still him being a Holocaust survivor, he should be pushing 90 by now. He's survived alien invasions and fighting Apocalypse. Magneto should be going "I've seen some weird shit in my time. I've rethought some stuff."

I want growth in the characters is my point.

Most of my problems are the same as Brian Clevingers. (http://www.atomic-robo.com/about)

The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".

 

[Garm]

The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".

That was a good recap.

Apparently the comics industry is a Gordian Knot and has no simple fixes.

Thank you.

 

[damian]

Press F:

 

[Agent Wet]

The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".

So basically most if not the entire industry is fucked if there is no effort between the companies themselves, artist, writers, and store owners to help fix it even that is unlikely.

 

[Water-T]

Press F:

I had two friends that used to be subbed to Loot Crate, but they cancelled a few months ago because they were getting low grade crap. It was only a matter of time before the whole thing imploded, especially since they started to overextend the brand with extremely specialized Crates.

 

[Tanner Glass]

So basically most if not the entire industry is fucked if there is no effort between the companies themselves, artist, writers, and store owners to help fix it even that is unlikely.

In my opinion, at least. I would say the industry is fucked just because the companies don't really care about the industry moving forward. Disney bought Marvel primarily as a place to mine characters/intellectual properties for movies, which made them roughly $15 billion dollars in the last ten years. Comic books themselves have no where near that kind of potential.

DC is largely just chasing Marvel Studios with their own "shared cinematic universe" but they've had some movie hits as well, and we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars here.

By comparison, the entire comic book industry generated roughly 400 million in sales (note : not profit) for the entire calendar year of 2018. You may see people claim "It was actually 1.1 billion" but I'm purposely not counting the 635 million dollars generated by "Graphic Novels" (which are Manga and not really the same industry).

Let's say for the sake of argument that all 400 million the comic book industry made was profit.

Avengers : Endgame (one of three movies this year) made 3 billion dollars by itself, more money then the entire comic industry (DC, Marvel, and all other studios) would make in seven years combined. Seven other "MCU" movies have grossed a billion dollars or more and they're able to get three of these each year out the door. This is also just the "box" office and doesn't account for however many people buy the home releases, which probably adds up to another sizable sum of money.

There is no "easy" fix for the comics industry - but there are a shocking large number of things that they could easily try (example - investing some of that giant pile of movie money back into the comics industry to hire and RETAIN talent long term like the movie studios does for actors/writers/etc) that they just don't do because they don't seem to care.

 

[CheezzyMach]

The main, #1 problem with comics right now is that it simply isn't an industry that draws in talent and arguably never was.

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

Sure, a talented writer could, possibly, jump through all of the hoops and still create an entertaining story. It has been done a few times before but ultimately there isn't much money in it. Most comic work is paid poorly and on a contractual basis - that same writer would be better off trying to write literally anything else for magnitudes more money. A lot of numbers get thrown around but very few of them are over $50,000/year - and that's assuming the person works all year round (as opposed to having 3 months off between two projects). In 2019, this is very easy because there are 5 new super hero movies and 7 new super hero shows coming out each year, every year, for the last ten years until forever.

This also creates a ton of turnover in the companies which makes it very hard to create very long story lines, because the different writers will want to do different things and they will do them. Even if Magneto retired in the comics, we know as comic book readers that he isn't really retired because when they get a new writer (in like 3 months) you'll get a "The Return of Mageneto" arc. Even if he fucking died, they'd have some retcon where young Magneto gets sent forward through time to present day and does the same shit.

You might think "well create a new character then" - without talented writers this is how you find shit like Goddess Mode un-ironically on store shelves, literal tumblr-tier fanfiction turned into a comicbook. It was basically dead-on-arrival and they were just fishing for some type of controversy by hiring on a writer who was a controversy magnet and couldn't even get that going. If you have talent, there's really no reason to sign on with a studio as they really can't help you all that much - which is why there's been a large push to kickstarter/gofundme/whatever.

On top of all of that, problem #2 is just that comic books aren't that popular and will never be again. The same way newspapers have fallen by the wayside at the hands of television and internet journalism - comics have lost major ground to television and internet entertainment. A lot of "traditional" nerd hobbies have transitioned to online spaces - you can play Magic The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever other nerd shit online which is very bad for hobby shops - but for comics it means less traffic and space to sell comics. A lot of what would be considered "casual comic fans" are content watching the 6 movies and 7 shows a year and never touching a comic book again (or playing the video games, or whatever). A book, even an illustrated book, is a very inefficient way to tell a story with all of the technology advances.

There is a whole collection of problems, I could probably go to #20 on my list but it's already a lot of words - but at the end of the day the problem that is always going to exists is simply "are these even worth making over a movie/tv show/video game/whatever else" and the answer is typically "No, not really".

Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.

I'd still put that on writing - it's hard, but certainly not impossible to write a story with all ages appeal or even different things for different audiences. I'd argue that a lot of current comics are appealing to neither children or adults, but that children are more impacted by the incredibly long continuity that some comics try and keep held together.

However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.

I don't think price is an issue and I don't think "print is dead", but I do think a huge availability of cheaper and easier to get entertainment isn't helping the comic book industry at all. I think that you're right that if a child walks into a comic shop with $4 the last thing he would likely buy would be a comic and that's a pretty large problem. I think comic shops already have a really hard time getting people into their stores but not having much to recommend once someone does wander it and most comic stores near me that survived became something "other" than comic book stores. Most of them have half the store dedicated to comic-related merch, some of them are comic/WOTC stores (D&D and MTG), some of them are comic/video game stores, one of them became a fucking comic shop/lawyer's office/public notary - it's wild what some of them have to do to survive.

Manga doing well only tells me that if you put a decent product out there, people will buy it. I personally think that Manga is handled much better than comics because they don't do nearly as much canonical nonsense - they're all (comparability) straight forward stories that go from #1 all the way to #current issue. There aren't many wacky reboots, no variant cover nonsense, not many canonical cross overs or full universe realignments, etc. The art and writing is usually much more consistent and you much less frequently get writer change storylines that consist of "forget all that shit from the last 12 issues, this is the new shit now" type drastic changes.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Eh I disagree in my view the biggest issue with comics is they've largely abandoned the child market.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters * and as a consequence comics have been forced into specialized hobby shops an endangered species in this modern digital age where you can buy almost anything from Amazon *.

My LCS brought this up, parents regularly come in saying their kid likes superheroes and they're looking for a comic and he can't recommend anything on the shelf because it's all targeted towards older folks.

I think the price issue is very overstated a pack of trading cards cost the same as an issue of Spider-Man and MTG is booming for Hasbro last I heard.

Manga and paperbacks are still selling as well so I don't think it's a "print is obsolete" issue like with newspapers either.

This! But it comes from a deeper problem. Look at the old classic comic creators. The ones that wrote the stories we all really remember. They were all by and large family men living in New York Suburbs. They went home every night to their wife and kids. Children were the most important element of their worlds. And they told their stories to and for their kids. They had the needed perspective.

Now look at modern "creatives". Ya Boi Zack said it best when he labeled them "Childless Weirdo's". They are bereft of family and bereft of any actual (non creepy) contact with children. Instead the only child they write for is the eternal child that is themselves. And this isn't limited to comics. Look at what passes for animation or cartoons these days. It's watching somebody write a childrens show who has never met an actual child. And is instead writing for some imagined intersectional feminist fantasy of what a child is. And they wonder why they are failing. They almost universally lack the prerequisite basic life skills to be a success in their creative fields. They walled themselves off from actual humanity and then wonder why nobody wants to read their drivel.

 

[Water-T]

However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.

GI Joe has always been two things:

1) a way to sell toys

2) a bunch of over muscled men and sexy ladies shooting at the bad guys and winning by the end of the episode/comic.

It's not been deep and will never be deep, and yet all these NPCs come in and think that inserting their treatise about how Joe vs Cobra is a metaphor for the working class vs. the 1% is just what the series needed, then do the Surprised Pikachu Face when fans hate it.

Yes, Larry Hama did put some political elements into the comic, but at least he had first hand military experience, was a good writer, and wasn't ham handed about it. The cartoon, on the other hand, was as political as a wet fart, and claiming otherwise is just disingenuous.

By all means, if there is a good story about war and politics out there to be made into a comic, I more than welcome it. But for fucks' sake, get a better writer than Aubrey Sitterson on it and don't ride the coattails of an established IP.

 

[CheezzyMach]

I'd still put that on writing - it's hard, but certainly not impossible to write a story with all ages appeal or even different things for different audiences. I'd argue that a lot of current comics are appealing to neither children or adults, but that children are more impacted by the incredibly long continuity that some comics try and keep held together.

However, you're right that they can't even run a kid's comic for kids anymore - fucking GI Joe of all things is this quasi political nonsense and I can't imagine that there's much subtlety there for adults. I haven't read any of it but just on the premise (The GI Joes are rebels and they're rebelling against the tyrannical government controlled by COBRA screams "writer's opinion of the 2016 election" to me) it sounds awful for all ages.

I don't think price is an issue and I don't think "print is dead", but I do think a huge availability of cheaper and easier to get entertainment isn't helping the comic book industry at all. I think that you're right that if a child walks into a comic shop with $4 the last thing he would likely buy would be a comic and that's a pretty large problem. I think comic shops already have a really hard time getting people into their stores but not having much to recommend once someone does wander it and most comic stores near me that survived became something "other" than comic book stores. Most of them have half the store dedicated to comic-related merch, some of them are comic/WOTC stores (D&D and MTG), some of them are comic/video game stores, one of them became a fucking comic shop/lawyer's office/public notary - it's wild what some of them have to do to survive.

Manga doing well only tells me that if you put a decent product out there, people will buy it. I personally think that Manga is handled much better than comics because they don't do nearly as much canonical nonsense - they're all (comparability) straight forward stories that go from #1 all the way to #current issue. There aren't many wacky reboots, no variant cover nonsense, not many canonical cross overs or full universe realignments, etc. The art and writing is usually much more consistent and you much less frequently get writer change storylines that consist of "forget all that shit from the last 12 issues, this is the new shit now" type drastic changes.

This! But it comes from a deeper problem. Look at the old classic comic creators. The ones that wrote the stories we all really remember. They were all by and large family men living in New York Suburbs. They went home every night to their wife and kids. Children were the most important element of their worlds. And they told their stories to and for their kids. They had the needed perspective.

Now look at modern "creatives". Ya Boi Zack said it best when he labeled them "Childless Weirdo's". They are bereft of family and bereft of any actual (non creepy) contact with children. Instead the only child they write for is the eternal child that is themselves. And this isn't limited to comics. Look at what passes for animation or cartoons these days. It's watching somebody write a childrens show who has never met an actual child. And is instead writing for some imagined intersectional feminist fantasy of what a child is. And they wonder why they are failing. They almost universally lack the prerequisite basic life skills to be a success in their creative fields. They walled themselves off from actual humanity and then wonder why nobody wants to read their drivel.

To me Boom's Power Rangers comic * MMPR 40# * I just read perfectly shows this.

The Rangers came off as whiny and the tumbleresc artwork made the "serious" tone they were trying for laughable. Same with IDW's Transformers where the autobots are genocidal racists and Optimus Prime is portrayed as useless.

What kind of kid wants to read this shit?

What parent is going to want to give their kid a comic where Lady Thor bitches about "mansplaining" for 20 pages or the Hulk exalts the virtues of troonism?

Who are these comics for? Because they sure as hell aren't for kids.

 

[AnOminous]

Writing a "good" comic is nearly impossible in this day and age - any existing character comes with piles of lore baggage piled up across a number of years (Superman came out in 1939 for example) and comes saddled with demands/conditions from numerous people in the company - sometimes multiple different committees about what that character can and can not do. These restrictions are usually super heavy and make an already hard task nearly impossible.

There are people like Alan Moore who could do it even with lore baggage, or could get away with just doing whatever the fuck they liked anyway and telling the suits to go fuck themselves and they'd put up with it because when they did, they got a nice fat pile of money for doing so.

Now they're actively hostile to money and I don't think even an Alan Moore could manage to exist in the current field. Even the actual Alan Moore ultimately became so thoroughly disgusted he couldn't deal with these shitty people any more, no matter what the price.

Comics used to be all ages but ever since the 90s kids have been steadily pushed out in favor of adult collectors and pretentious hipsters *

Hipsters are cancerous garbage and the minute a franchise starts catering to these johnny-come-lately scumwads, it turns to shit. And hipsters just flit off to something else anyway, having the attention span of gnats and only liking things ironically. I'd say they're even worse than SJWs but they're often also SJWs. Fuck these soybeards.

Who are these comics for? Because they sure as hell aren't for kids.

They're for the people who write them so they can pretend to be "creative" while actually being maggots gnawing on the corpse of what used to be a product of creativity.