#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Puddleduck]

So there are rumors that DC's trying to have it's cake and eat it too with the 5G relaunch.

Basically while 5G will replace the heroes with younger and hipper versions ala Marvel Now DC will launch new oversized titles featuring the originals under it's Black Label.

Sounds good right, I mean everyone's happy this way? One problem the BL books will be 7.99.

I don't see this ending well...

DC is shrinking fast. The 5G line is meant to make them look useful in the eyes of AT&T, as a research and development wing for the superhero line that they've acquired by merging with Time Warner.

Are the rumors about Bruce/Clark/Barry/Lantern/whoever else being replaced fully confirmed yet? I was wondering if DC backpedaled, as the universal response has basically been HELL NAW

 

[Kacho]

People have been bitching about the comics market being over saturated for over a decade.

DC and Marvel trimming the fat would be far healthier for the industry imo.

DC and Marvel are exceptional and will absolutely trim the lean and keep the fat.

 

[TJ-Weber]

idk if this has been covered yet, but Mark Zaid is getting attention in the mainstream twitter circles, since he is bragging about getting a person with child porn problems clearance to meet someone in the white house..which is not a good idea since a certain dead famous friend of the elites probably had that clearance when he flew he in his plane to there.

Twitter

archived 9 Nov 2019 19:05:52 UTC

archive.li

Mark S. Zaid on Twitter

“@McAdooGordon @parrostroika @Slate @BradMossEsq I've gotten clearances for guys who had child porn issues”

twitter.com

Some news sources:

Mark Zaid Says He Got Clearances for 'Guys With Child Porn Issues'

archived 9 Nov 2019 14:26:44 UTC

archive.li

Congratulations? Whistleblower lawyer Mark Zaid tweeted that he’s ‘go…

archived 8 Nov 2019 23:06:24 UTC

archive.li

 

[GeorgiaGuidestones]

idk if this has been covered yet, but Mark Zaid is getting attention in the mainstream twitter circles, since he is bragging about getting a person with child porn problems clearance to meet someone in the white house..which is not a good idea since a certain dead famous friend of the elites probably had that clearance when he flew he in his plane to there.

Twitter

archived 9 Nov 2019 19:05:52 UTC

archive.li

Mark S. Zaid on Twitter

“@McAdooGordon @parrostroika @Slate @BradMossEsq I've gotten clearances for guys who had child porn issues”

twitter.com

Some news sources:

Mark Zaid Says He Got Clearances for 'Guys With Child Porn Issues'

archived 9 Nov 2019 14:26:44 UTC

archive.li

Congratulations? Whistleblower lawyer Mark Zaid tweeted that he’s ‘go…

archived 8 Nov 2019 23:06:24 UTC

archive.li

The disney princess obsession makes a lot more sense now. Birds of a feather...

Seriously, why would any lawyer brag about that?

 

[AnOminous]

Seriously, why would any lawyer brag about that?

I think he's very stupid.

He has a number of intelligence-related clients with security clearances, some of them the subject of news coverage. He has basically said one or more of these people, his own clients, are pedophiles with CP issues, and that he assisted them in getting security clearances despite this.

He appears to have claimed to have violated the law and that his clients are pedophiles. If you have ever hired this clown, and have a security clearance, anyone who knows you now has serious cause to worry that you're a pedophile.

Way to serve your clients you stupid fucking douchebag.

 

[Prompt Critical]

The harsh reality is that the day of floppies is passing, and with them dedicated comic book shops. #ComicsGate or not. SJW industry infiltration or not. Yeah, some behavior might hasten the end, some might push it back, but I don't see how anyone can say the end isn't coming. Meaning DC might as well try flinging poo at the wall as do anything else. Who knows, some of it may stick.

Honest question: do you think there's some fundamental difference between American comics and imported manga? Because manga in the US is doing quite well, and the market is continuing to grow even as American comics implodes.

Do you think there's some structural issue that makes them different? (i.e. not self-inflicted due to producing an objectively shit product that costs 10-30x as much per page as the competition, and is marketed almost exclusively towards a shrinking niche audience.) Because obviously superheroes as an entertainment subject (in film and television) are a global phenomenon, and manga as a very similar print entertainment medium is very popular. Heck, a manga about American-style superheroes occupied more than half of the top ten graphic novels sold in the US last year. Aside from incompetence in writing, production and marketing, what can't American comics do that the Japanese can?

Saying "comics were going to die anyway" just sounds like a cope to me.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Honest question: do you think there's some fundamental difference between American comics and imported manga? Because manga in the US is doing quite well, and the market is continuing to grow even as American comics implodes.

Do you think there's some structural issue that makes them different? (i.e. not self-inflicted due to producing an objectively shit product that costs 10-30x as much per page as the competition, and is marketed almost exclusively towards a shrinking niche audience.) Because obviously superheroes as an entertainment subject (in film and television) are a global phenomenon, and manga as a very similar print entertainment medium is very popular. Heck, a manga about American-style superheroes occupied more than half of the top ten graphic novels sold in the US last year. Aside from incompetence in writing, production and marketing, what can't American comics do that the Japanese can?

Saying "comics were going to die anyway" just sounds like a cope to me.

That's a fair question, and I don't have a direct answer, sorry. Plus I'm hampered by the fact that the only Manga I read is completed series, mostly normie tier shit, and even then not a ton of that. Its just not really my thing, for whatever reason. Do people in the West go out and grab stuff from stores on a weekly, biweekly, monthly basis? Maybe that would be a working model. I hadn't really thought much about that.

One thing I do admit I got completely wrong is how digital format comics§ - have, at least to this point, failed to catch on. When I first heard about these services coming down the line I figured they'd have grabbed a much larger share of the market than they seem to have by now. If anything, comics in the digital sphere almost seem to be sliding backwards, don't they? Amazon doesn't seem to give two shits about Comixology at this point, can't remember the last time I saw an ad for it on their site. Though they also seem to be slowly absorbing it into Kindle books generally, perhaps?

Beyond all that, and why I think the end of the current model is inevitable:

• Commercial rents, specifically sidewalk fronting retail, are going insane in a bunch of US urban markets. Why this should be the case I have no clear idea, with so much shopping shifting on-line, but it is what it is. You wanna open a comic book shop in San Francisco, NYC, Washington DC, selling stuff that you can't raise prices on, where your supplier is sometimes less than perfect getting what you ordered out to you, well, good luck to you. Mission Comics in San Francisco is only in business at this point because of their Patreon.
• I don't think people, especially those under 21, think floppies represent a fundamentally good value for the money proposition at this point, whatever their contents. $10 in your Steam wallet (or XBox Live or PSN or Nintendo Store) vs. two floppies you can read in 20 minutes? The choice is a no-brainer. And if they're interested in the floppies they'll probably just pirate them. The people who buy the books are aging, and not being replaced.
• The Big 2 just seem so not only out of touch with their readers, they're downright antagonistic toward them. As documented by 800 spergy YouTube channels. Possibly this one last one could be turned around, but I see no evidence for this on the horizon. If anything, the ideological purity tests are getting worse over time.

I do wonder a bit about the whole model of the shops being the final customers, as opposed to the newsstand/bookstore model, where unsold inventory can be returned for a full credit. Dunno about this one, since things have been this way for decades now, through some of the biggest booms in comics.


§ - As an aside, compare what has gone on with, of all things, Romance novels and the novelists who write them. Pre-internet, what you had was an industry that paid for shit, treated their authors like shit, and got away with it because Harlequin and one or two others were the only game in town. Once self-publishing became viable these gals (and a few men using female pen names) moved to ebooks much quicker than than any other genre of fiction, pioneering marketing strategies and possibly even technologies, with minimal #Comicsgate-like drama. Kind of an interesting contrast to what has gone on in comics. And curiously underreported in the media, since these kind of books have now gone from a Big Publishing cash cow to Amazon self-publishing. Frustratingly hard to get the data on this, but this now dominates the market.

 

[PocketJacks]

I’m not sure why all the fuss about Gatekeeping in CG Twitter lately, but the SJW Influences they seek to purge the group of clearly involve me. TUG specifically labels me an SJW as Ethan had a couple of weeks prior. Not sure why, as I was not trying to get into CG, so gate keeping will really have no impact.

Although, according to his wife, I might be carcinogenic. So, there’s that.

 

[CheezzyMach]

Honest question: do you think there's some fundamental difference between American comics and imported manga? Because manga in the US is doing quite well, and the market is continuing to grow even as American comics implodes.

Do you think there's some structural issue that makes them different? (i.e. not self-inflicted due to producing an objectively shit product that costs 10-30x as much per page as the competition, and is marketed almost exclusively towards a shrinking niche audience.) Because obviously superheroes as an entertainment subject (in film and television) are a global phenomenon, and manga as a very similar print entertainment medium is very popular. Heck, a manga about American-style superheroes occupied more than half of the top ten graphic novels sold in the US last year. Aside from incompetence in writing, production and marketing, what can't American comics do that the Japanese can?

Saying "comics were going to die anyway" just sounds like a cope to me.

People have been saying comics are dying since the market crash of the mid 90s forced them all into hobby shops and nearly 30 years later they're still here.

Personally I think it's impossible to predict the death of the industry if it come it comes but it won't be because of youtube slapfighting.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Honest question: do you think there's some fundamental difference between American comics and imported manga? Because manga in the US is doing quite well, and the market is continuing to grow even as American comics implodes.

My FLCS/FLGS is selling Manga now

• I don't think people, especially those under 21, think floppies represent a fundamentally good value for the money proposition at this point, whatever their contents. $10 in your Steam wallet (or XBox Live or PSN or Nintendo Store) vs. two floppies you can read in 20 minutes? The choice is a no-brainer. And if they're interested in the floppies they'll probably just pirate them. The people who buy the books are aging, and not being replaced.

Related to the first point. When I started buying comics it was .75$, which in todays dollars would be 1.79 if you inflation adjust it from the .10$ days comics would be .89$ If we inflation adjust from 1991 [when the industry started to be unsupportable] that gets us $3.30

 

[NSA]

Honest question: do you think there's some fundamental difference between American comics and imported manga? Because manga in the US is doing quite well, and the market is continuing to grow even as American comics implodes.

Do you think there's some structural issue that makes them different? (i.e. not self-inflicted due to producing an objectively shit product that costs 10-30x as much per page as the competition, and is marketed almost exclusively towards a shrinking niche audience.) Because obviously superheroes as an entertainment subject (in film and television) are a global phenomenon, and manga as a very similar print entertainment medium is very popular. Heck, a manga about American-style superheroes occupied more than half of the top ten graphic novels sold in the US last year. Aside from incompetence in writing, production and marketing, what can't American comics do that the Japanese can?

Saying "comics were going to die anyway" just sounds like a cope to me.

I'm no market analyst but here are some Manga advantages:
Doesn't do floppy crap
It's about $0.06 per page rather than $0.20 per page
It's every genre, rather than one single genre
Mostly new stuff or creator-owned rather than old-as-dirt corporate assembly line products without complete stories.
Edgy content is more common.
No shady distribution monopoly

But even with all that, comics are just terrible, terrible quality right now, a complete waste of time & money. I'm not sure if the shrinking industry made it vulnerable to SJWs or SJWs made the industry crash, or some combination. All I know is, I walk out of the comic store without buying anything pretty often these days. It's kind of awkward.

 

[Detrogen]

You know, if Zack loses his case against Waid I’m 100% certain it’s because Antarctic Press has proven time and again that they aren’t as good at publishing comics as their many years in the industry might suggest. Here’s their most recent update on Jungle Comics. Somehow AP is run by the only two Asian men who don’t understand basic numbers.

 

[Uranus Pink]

You know, if Zack loses his case against Waid I’m 100% certain it’s because Antarctic Press has proven time and again that they aren’t as good at publishing comics as their many years in the industry might suggest. Here’s their most recent update on Jungle Comics. Somehow AP is run by the only two Asian men who don’t understand basic numbers.

Almost everyone who knew anything about business left AP after the split between the Dunn Brothers and Elin Wrinkler happened.

 

[Stoneheart]

I'm no market analyst but here are some Manga advantages:

Having an Anime also doesnt hurt

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

Having an Anime also doesnt hurt

Japanese marketing strategy for manga IP:
1. Figures exist to promote mangas.
2. Anime exists to promote manga.
a. Movie based on anime exists to promote manga
b. Live action adaptation exists to promote manga
3. Video games exist to promote manga.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Having an Anime also doesnt hurt

Also doesn't help (if you're Marvel)

Spoiler

For comparison's sake, here's Squirrel Girl from the Spider-Man cartoon:

 

[Wise Man]

Maybe it's skrulls. Maybe all Marvel is skrulls.

I hope they retcon it all away, but Marvel is dead to me just like new Star Wars is dead to me.

We've established a method for marketing and selling comic books...

I don't know, $35 for 50 pages of story is $35 not in my steam wallet. Which is 2-3 games during a sale. And for something I'm not getting for a year. Lucky if it's only a year.

edit: @Uranus Pink - there's also the $30 hardcover, 500 page mangas with partial coloring.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Or sticking with oranges and Mandarin oranges, depending on the publisher $35 can buy either two $15 195 page mangas or three $10 195 mangas plus sales tax new off the bookstore self. Comparison is even more lopsided with the used book market.

 

[Stoneheart]

Or sticking with oranges and Mandarin oranges, depending on the publisher $35 can buy either two $15 195 page mangas or three $10 195 mangas plus sales tax new off the bookstore self. Comparison is even more lopsided with the used book market.

you could also buy 4-5 european soft cover comics with around 50 pages.
or 5 Donald comics same format as manga but 256 pages in colour.

only us comics are realy dieing.

 

[Wise Man]

you could also buy 4-5 european soft cover comics with around 50 pages.

I don't have the time to learn Arabic