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#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!
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I don't remember exactly when, but I'd say Northstar coming out as gay was in the late-80's early 90's. With the character having been introduced in 1979, that's about a decade of existence. I know that he came out as a mutant in the mid-late 80's and remember thinking that it was kind of weird that they had Northstar do that (which lead to all of the awards he had won for competitive skiing being stripped from him) and then they follow that up a year or two later with him coming out as gay. The coming out as a mutant happened in the 80's Alpha Flight comic, and I'm not sure if it was in AF or an X-title where Northstar came out as gay.
Iceman as gay was something that was thrown about in editorial back in the 90's and hints were starting to be dropped when that was squashed after Internet/fan backlash (which Marvel was already facing for teenage Tony Stark and Ben Reilly being revealed as the "real" Peter Parker). As has been said many times, Iceman as gay doesn't make sense. He's easily bisexual, but suddenly being solely attracted to men after a clear history of enjoying the company of women is shows that the writer doesn't care about what the character has experienced up until the point where he decided he prefers hot dogs to tacos.
He was conceived as gay, but Byrne was only able to hint about it because Marvel comics were intermittently reactionary, for lack of a better descriptor. Dixon said the same recently on a podcast about wanting to use Moon Knights Judaism and getting pushback from editorial (most of whom at the time were Jewish).
This wasn't isolated. Comic book companies, historically, were very inconsistent. DC pulled Veitch's sympathetic portrayal of the passion of Jesus in Swamp thing (available online), nixed a Superman Adventures story were a kid was supposed to pray to God by Mark Millar, and a number of other instances across all companies. At the same time Alan Moore, Jamie Delano, Neil Gaiman, and particularly Garth Ennis were flooding their comics with perversion, drugs, and anti-christian rhetoric. It was easy to see why this inconsistent, bipolar management could irritate professionals.
Bill Willingham has spoken about the pressure he received from Vertigo while on Fables pushing him to be more crass.
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Pilule Noire
kiwifarms.net
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Presented without comment:
Did Bryce actually do this or is this more delusional stuff...
Newman's Own
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You're right. Claremont's X-Men would fit the bill. I would consider it a SJW comic, especially the exact same book was coming out today.
But there is a bit of nuance to it. South Africa was going through a revolution of sorts to end apartheid. Evangelical Christianity held far more social and political capital than today. Being gay, especially with the AID's epidemic in full swing, lacked the social acceptance it now does. The KKK was in it's death throws but still had some relevance politically. The Civil Rights Act was less than 20 years old.
Chris did well written and compelling activist comics in the 80's. He was definitely preaching. The difference was that there was a reason to. The grievances ( at least some of them ) were real. Today the activist class scrapes the bottom of the barrel looking for some kind of grievance to be outraged about. They resurrect old solved causes to be outraged about when those problems haven't existed in any meaningful way for decades. And they create new grievances that are wholly fabricated or so esoteric as to be petty. Trans-rights, mansplaining, oppression of middle class white women and so on.
Claremont's allegories and metaphors were social justice driven and preachy as fuck but they also had weight and relevance for the time. They were some of the most entertaining comics in the most entertaining era in comics. They can be both. Claremont's social justice comics were a mostly honest commentary on real issues of the time. It helped that his criticisms of conservatism ( see Senator Kelly ) were less caricatured and more sympathetic. His allegories like BKV's were less ad hominem and less obvious.
All that said, if Claremont wrote the exact same stories today they'd come off as social justice trash. The KKK hasn't been relevant in decades, South African's are murdering white farmers with tacit support from the ruling party, gay people are celebrated for existing, and the religious right has a fraction of the political power they had in the 80's.
If he wrote allegories for the Uygur Muslims or people of Hong Kong, the rise of big tech and left wing corporate authoritarianism, or the corruption of the neo-liberal/neo-conservative globalists in power he'd be just as relevant today as he was in 1985.
BKV's writing is more subtle but his grievances ring hollow because he preaches from the establishment down to the rest of us.
He arguably turned gay in his second appearance.
North Star was introduced in an issue of X-Men with the rest of Alpha Flight. Byrne said he mostly made them to be throw away characters. His sexuality was a non-issue. Marvel wanted to cash in on Byrne's popularity so they convinced him ($$$) to do an Alpha Flight series. Byrne started subtly hinting Jean-Paul took it in the ass almost immediately. He never overtly showed or even strongly hinted that NS was gay during his run. The closest they came was outing NS as a mutant and having it destroy his public reputation which may have been a commentary on Rock Hudson who was outed and croaked due to Aids that same year. But Byrne was off the book by then.
Apparently Jim Shooter and the Comics Code Authority both refused to allow openly gay characters in comics in the 80's so that was probably why.
When he did finally come out in '92 it was a publicity stunt by Marvel which got plenty of attention from all the right outlets in liberal media. About then, like Iceman, the character started to loose dimension and was used more as a political avatar for gayness in comics. Marvel or the writers couldn't have their stunning and brave gay character be a cunt and Byrne's Jean-Paul was a pretty massive asshole.
The look on his face.
Considering it's Sketch? I'm guessing delusion.
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- May 28, 2019
Interesting. But just to be clear, I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying the algorithm "likes" words like "ERASED" or "HUMILIATED".
The algorithm likes "DISNEY+."
If there's an interesting scandal about Disney+, or some news about it, every YouTuber who does pop culture reporting is going to cover that same news item, so the key is to make your coverage stand out, and you do that with an interesting thumbnail, and a title that promises something lurid.
The subject drives the algorithm to recommend your video to subscribers and people who subscribe to channels like yours.
CLICKS are what gets your video seen, which sends a message back to YouTube to recommend your video more, which gets more CLICKS, etc etc.
If you did the same Disney+ topic in a flat and boring way, it might get recommended, but it'll never catch fire, because no one will click on it.
GranDuke
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Thats weird, what would be the reasoning to block it?
Greed
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Sketch is one bump on the head away from accessing the Akashic Records
Newman's Own
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Probably the same reason Jews are under-represented in Hollywood movies but over represented in Hollywood board rooms.
Comics were dominated by Jews for decades. Stan Lee's real last name was Lieber. Kirby's was Kurtzburg. The owner of Marvel was Jewish and DC was run by Julious Schwarz. Jews had disproportionate numbers and influence in comics all the way back to the 40's. Will Eisner and so on. But back then Jews were in the habit of keeping their heads down. There was still plenty of mainstream anti-semitism burbling under the surface. IBM, an all American company, had just come out on the losing side of the worlds biggest war and they helped the villains of the story streamline the industrial slaughter of Jews without much in the way of consequences.
Jew's were in the habit of changing their names like Lee and Kirby and they were in the habit of keeping their heads down out of a sense of self preservation. So the Jews working in comics tended to keep Jewish characters out of comics. If there were Jewish characters you wouldn't know it. Ben Grimm was meant to be Jewish but that was less obvious than North Star's love for dick. So the lack of Jewish characters was probably an editorial directive from the Jews at the top and it was probably wise, at least for a few decades until attitudes about the Heebs relaxed.
They were a little slow relaxing though. The inertia of those editorial decisions carried over into the 70's, 80's and even 90's. Probably because the liberals who supplanted the Jews in dominance during the Bronze Age were a little low grade anti-semetic themselves.
Moon Knight was created in 1975. Marvel editorial probably figured having an openly Jewish character in comics at the time was edgy enough for a couple decades. Editors tend to be cowards. Sometimes this reigns in lunatic talent and makes the final product more palatable for mass consumption and sometimes it stifles lunatic talents and the final product isn't fit for consumption at all.
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I think it happened back in ‘92 and he was created in ‘79. But looking back at his character design he was always fairly suspect. I don’t think he has ever been depicted having any romantic relationships with a woman.
I don't know. Same thing with blocking the kid praying in the Millar Adventures story.
This would have been in the 80s during his run. Believe it or not, there was genuinely multiple generations of editors (again, comics so a large number of them Jewish) who wanted anyone to see Superman, Batman, and Spider-man and think they were christian, jewish, or whatever you the reader were. It wasn't a united front, but it goes back to a mindset that these are larger than life icons that were for everyone.
When Bendis got to write Superman, he was obsessed with the fact that the two people that created the character were Jewish and that Superman must therefore be a deeply Jewish hero. But for decades, up to and including people Bendis' age, mostly Jewish creators went to painful lengths to make Clark Kent something larger than that. It's apart of that bipolar comics I referenced earlier.
As to Chris Claremont and his work on the X-men. No, it's not SJW
Here's the difference between Claremont and SJWs. Remember God Loves, Man Kills? The series was a little cringe and it made no sense that Christians would be threatened by evolution, kindof dumb. Anyway, Claremont wrote a sequel to it. In it he portrays William Stryker sympathetically, has him at no point betray his faith, and redeems him.
That is the difference between an SJW and the Claremont X-Men. Between Saga and the genuine classics of bygone eras.
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- May 21, 2020
Yeah Northstar as much as I don't want to read about LGBTQWTF stuff at least didn't have this like "this doesn't make sense."
Iceman was shown as quite the lady's man so it was bizarre.
Great job talking about comic history for the last couple pages, gents. More of this. This is definitely the direction I've always wanted to steer comicsgate.
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- Nov 23, 2019
So after sixty days the most controversial (and boring) book of the year breezes past $40k.
I'm sure the spergs'll be out in full force by morning.
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It's been fairly quiet in CG land. A brief update cross posted with the Liam thread.
On the Twits, Liam Grey has put his big brain into action, delivering a very insightful theory.
https://twitter.com/RetroBoy1983/status/1338947088780906498
https://twitter.com/RetroBoy1983/status/1338948155849621505
To wit, this has all been a supergay plot to eliminate real creators, with balls(tm), who won't stand down when 'mainstream' talent is promoted over Core CG creators. Gayops ensue? It's far too galaxy brain for me.
SmugFrieza's bitches aka WC were quick to seize on this, pointing to this as proof of their 'lord's and peasant's' thing.
https://twitter.com/manofs3x/status/1338997856145969153
A brief perusal of Ro's twitter shows insane levels of faggotry and butthurt. Lot's of CG/Frog posting. Kindof the opposite of the Ethan/Doug/Mike situation as Ro and companies intense hate/longing for their former cult leader appears to be entirely one-sided.
Still in Aussie land. Oz arts posted a four hour stream this week.
It's mostly boring, with a huge sperg bloodsport at 2:06:00 with Nassar's artist Vic King getting into a slap fight with Berserk Guts. Mike S Miller appears at the 3 fucking hour mark.
Our Boudicca, she of the flaming titties, posted an hour long video a couple of days ago.
To her credit, our lady of perpetual boob burn has gotten markedly better at broadcasting, modulating her tone. Good job. Still, the stream struggles a little. The first third is stream sniping, boring, followed by a Nassar bit that falls flat, and ends with Testfy HD guesting.
I had previously covered Doug Tennapel's turn from preachy cartoonist to Supreme Court legal analyst. This turn may have taken some of you by surprise.
Youtube has actually put disclaimers below his holiness' videos, rudely pointing out that everything in Doug's videos are factually wrong. Oh, Oh, Oooh
You know though. Who can blame him. It's not as if he's apart of a floundering campaign that's only got 11,000 dollars for four creators...
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/monster-hunt-let-s-get-kraken#/
Richard Meyer's has continued to review modern comics, though his time grows short given his ultimatum.
Though, how much Tom King can one man read and retain his sanity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSTM-MFgGVU
On the Twits, Liam Grey has put his big brain into action, delivering a very insightful theory.
https://twitter.com/RetroBoy1983/status/1338947088780906498
https://twitter.com/RetroBoy1983/status/1338948155849621505
To wit, this has all been a supergay plot to eliminate real creators, with balls(tm), who won't stand down when 'mainstream' talent is promoted over Core CG creators. Gayops ensue? It's far too galaxy brain for me.
SmugFrieza's bitches aka WC were quick to seize on this, pointing to this as proof of their 'lord's and peasant's' thing.
https://twitter.com/manofs3x/status/1338997856145969153
A brief perusal of Ro's twitter shows insane levels of faggotry and butthurt. Lot's of CG/Frog posting. Kindof the opposite of the Ethan/Doug/Mike situation as Ro and companies intense hate/longing for their former cult leader appears to be entirely one-sided.
Still in Aussie land. Oz arts posted a four hour stream this week.
It's mostly boring, with a huge sperg bloodsport at 2:06:00 with Nassar's artist Vic King getting into a slap fight with Berserk Guts. Mike S Miller appears at the 3 fucking hour mark.
Our Boudicca, she of the flaming titties, posted an hour long video a couple of days ago.
To her credit, our lady of perpetual boob burn has gotten markedly better at broadcasting, modulating her tone. Good job. Still, the stream struggles a little. The first third is stream sniping, boring, followed by a Nassar bit that falls flat, and ends with Testfy HD guesting.
I had previously covered Doug Tennapel's turn from preachy cartoonist to Supreme Court legal analyst. This turn may have taken some of you by surprise.
Youtube has actually put disclaimers below his holiness' videos, rudely pointing out that everything in Doug's videos are factually wrong. Oh, Oh, Oooh
You know though. Who can blame him. It's not as if he's apart of a floundering campaign that's only got 11,000 dollars for four creators...
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/monster-hunt-let-s-get-kraken#/
Richard Meyer's has continued to review modern comics, though his time grows short given his ultimatum.
Though, how much Tom King can one man read and retain his sanity?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSTM-MFgGVU
Pilule Noire
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
Funny you mention David Stewart, I was just looking at two channels with a big subscriber discrepancy and yet they have similar viewcounts:
- David Stewart has only 42K subs, but 7.6m total channel views
- In Praise of Shadows has 194K subs and 8.7m views
David V Stewart, aka DVS, is a former @FROG fan turned semi-hostile I believe. @TheCosmicWarrior has been a guest on his channel numerous times, and I vaguely remember one time where Stewart was throwing a little shade at Frog, and Riceman actually defended Frog a little, even though they weren't getting along at the time.
I believe DVS revealed that he had been a fan of Frog's from before his ComicArtistPro Secrets channel blew up, and had invited Frog onto his own channel, but been ignored. So then as Frog blew up, DVS may have become a little sneery of him, and then seeing figures like Micah and Liam and 'Gat Hanzo' (and indeed Nasser now that I think of it) becoming the flagship writers of Comicsgate, he likely opted to maintain a sensible distance from it all.
But funnily enough, the first time I ever heard Frog's name was in this video from February 2018:
Where he put 'Ethan Van Sriver' as the name in the description. I think that's why I looked into him, I thought there's no way 'Sriver' is a real name.
The above video is the last thing DVS ever did with 'Comicsgate' in the title, though.
Anyway, going back to the earlier two-channel comparison, one thing to note is that Stewart's channel has been around 7 years whereas 'In Praise of Shadows' is only 2 years old, younger indeed than the Stewart video posted above.
This brings me onto post part 2: Telling off Nasser!
(This is my fiftieth post, so please indulge me)
Part 2: Telling off Nasser, or In Praise of In Praise of Shadows
@NasserRabadi13 I'm not enjoying your streams with Riceman. Neither of you even have 2K Youtube subs to your name, and yet you're both filled with self-regard, sitting there preening yourselves. Taking turns to kiss Frog on his awful ring. It's horrible! I don't care about BeanFromPa, I don't want to look at a looping video of her! Zero out of ten, just based on that.
You should take a good long look at In Praise of Shadows - a channel that is almost exactly the same age as yours, starting in July 2018. Now boasting 194K subs and 8.6m views. Think about those numbers, let them sink in - the channel is the same age as yours.
Now consider that there's only 35 videos, total, on the channel. Against your 339.
Nasser Rabadi - 1.63K subs, 339 videos, 0.099m views
In Praise of Shadows - 194K subs, 35 videos, 8.6m views
Both channels the same age, born July 2018.
And get this - the IPOS guy sounds even younger than you, he sounds about fourteen.
He sounds like a soy fourteen year old.
And yet this kid has built a horror channel that has absolutely bowled me over, I'm astonished by how good it is.
This Batman video is a deeply impressive work of genius, and a testament to the value of 'Comicsgate without calling it Comicsgate' in my opinion. He makes the kind of soundly nuanced arguments that the boneheaded, chest-beating, flag-waving style of Comicsgater could never even dream of in his wildest imaginings.
What I mean is, the guy makes a stealth approach to CG arguments. It's hard to explain unless you watch the full video, but it's well worth the time. It's one of the better Youtube video essays I've watched, very boldly starting off with praise for Schumacher's Batman and Robin, then moving into an excellent, thought-provoking essay on Gotham, Batman and his rise and fall over the last few decades. At times he makes apparent concessions to SJWism, but like a jiu-jitsu fighter he knows where to give just enough to pull in, rather than alienate a potentially hostile viewer. That's real daring, just like opening with praise for Schumacher - and it's not just to be a dick or a fool, he's making sophisticated arguments that are as elegant as watching a gymnast's acrobatics. There's a lot of disagreement in the comments, but it's not sperging, it's discussion.
And he's an assassin! The way he climbs in under the fence to assassinate Grant Morrison around the 24m mark is truly a masterful takedown, highly impressive for someone who sounds like they're fourteen.
What I especially love is how this approach is 'soft Comicsgate', it's the kind of Comicsgate that can actually slip in under an SJW sympathizer's radar and change their thinking through carefully reasoned, thoughtful arguments.
It's like the opposite of what Comicsgaters do!
Comicsgaters, let's be honest, for the most part, are shitheads - and they act as such.
Now in fairness to Nasser, this shadow-praiser guy is actually a few years older than you, despite sounding fourteen.
But what's the Riceman's excuse?
Riceman? Isn't this the direction you've 'always wanted to steer Comicsgate'...? Why can't YOU make a video as good as this? Wouldn't that be a good start, to your Comicsgate steering efforts?
Or is it better to giggle at Frog's slapfighting tweets on a stream?
Because that's what you two did tonight, that was the entertainment you had to offer.
Like nearly all Comicsgaters, you've mistaken online socializing for marketing, and online loiterers for customers.
So you'll forgive me if I dip out, and head over to In Praise of Shadows, where Part 2 of a three-hour epic on horror comics has just been uploaded. Is it a Comicsgate channel, don't care - I want to watch something worthwhile, about comics. Not slapfighting tweets!
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- Dec 17, 2019
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Greed
kiwifarms.net
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- Nov 25, 2020
I'm sure I can do something with this.
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A nameless trool
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 9, 2020
I believe there are three main differences:
1) Clairemont's issues are from a different era, where hindsight is 20/20. And the reason we agree with them is that works like his formed a "80's conservatives bad" mentality in our consciousness and in pop culture.
SJWs write about issues that are contemporary and no consensus has been made yet. Trans (gender, race, human) issues are actually legit in 2020 but too polarized to discuss them without offending everybody.
2) Clairemont was writing comics for Marvel comics.
SJWs write comics for (or hoping to write for) Disney. Only people with no fucks to give (BKV is an example) will write about anticorporatism and anti-Disney.
3) Clairemont was an exceptional writer with years on a title.
Most SJWs are lucky to do 8 issues in any series.
So yeah, there is a difference in what we call SJW comics. I don't believe you can have good SJW comics, but good SJ-themed comics. You believe they are one and the same.
Let's agree to disagree.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2020
That clip that Vikki starts her stream with is great. Nasser, remember when I tried to warn you away from returning to comicsgate, calling them unprofessional backbiting autists? I take it all back, I think you fit in nicely.