#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Strix454]

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Oz would like to leave those like Testefy, Smug Pug, Wiggle Wiggle and Well Read with a final thought: if they're putting on these fake personas to receive the attention they're starving for in real life; none of the attention they garner would validate a single belief or value held by their true, authentic selves but the construct they've created. The problem that originally existed is still there and that, in the end, Oz posits that pretending to be an asshole for attention is ultimately a psychologically unfulfilling and self-defeating choice in the long run.​

Pot. Kettle. Black Oz.....Pot. Kettle. Black.

Oz himself is a totally false construct who played at being an asshole for attention and in the end found that it was a self-defeating choice.

The proper diagnosis is that the Oz show was destroyed by its own success. He took Liam's original idea (from "Live with Liam") of developing unity among the comicsgate peasants and turning them into a movement......and was successful in making it work. But neither he nor Liam ever properly considered the wisdom of creating a new movement out of people like Berserk Guts and what that movement would do with its unity.

Like Baron Frankenstein, he created a monster that he could not control, did not need him and had a life of its own. And when the monster Oz created went out rampaging into the night, Oz decided to blame everyone but himself.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Is this really all that's going on in comicsgate right now?

The only significant comic book campaigns in the past two months are Clint Stoker's Downcast 3 and Patrick Thomas Parnell's Wordnerdian-named Ultra Star: Operation Super N.O.V.A. 5, both of which are projected to make under $50,000. As I've pointed out in the past, there's more "investment capital" locked in unfulfilled campaigns from 2019 and 2020 than all of 2021 combined. Put bluntly Comicsgate, at least in terms as an economic or ideological force, is rapidly winding down.

 

[A nameless trool]

And I turned into...

...the hero I was always meant to be. #ComicsGate

Be a hot dog merchant, not a hot dog supremacist.

 

[Idiot Doom Spiral]

Put bluntly Comicsgate, at least in terms as an economic or ideological force, is rapidly winding down.

Do you think the winding down was inevitable due to the crowdfunding model, or did the deluge of detritus and massively delayed fulfillments expedite the situation?

 

[Captain Manning]

Oz posits that pretending to be an asshole for attention is ultimately a psychologically unfulfilling and self-defeating choice in the long run.

He's not wrong on this one.

The only thing worse than that is actually being an asshole and pulling the whole "it's just kayfabe" shtick. It's a similar but different form of dishonesty.

 

[Greed]

Pot. Kettle. Black Oz.....Pot. Kettle. Black.

Oz himself is a totally false construct who played at being an asshole for attention and in the end found that it was a self-defeating choice.

The proper diagnosis is that the Oz show was destroyed by its own success. He took Liam's original idea (from "Live with Liam") of developing unity among the comicsgate peasants and turning them into a movement......and was successful in making it work. But neither he nor Liam ever properly considered the wisdom of creating a new movement out of people like Berserk Guts and what that movement would do with its unity.

Like Baron Frankenstein, he created a monster that he could not control, did not need him and had a life of its own. And when the monster Oz created went out rampaging into the night, Oz decided to blame everyone but himself.

Live With Liam was one of my favorite story arcs. There was this wonderful sense that Frog was being forced to grin and bear it while Liam innocently orchestrated this nuclear shark pit of dissention, until it was revealed Liam was doing all of this in a desperate bid for Frogs attention, at which point Frog had to make it clear that he was not actually interested in being Liam's friend, sending Liam into a terminal lol-spiral that continues to this day. While I agree that Oz was 100% playing a character, I still appreciate him attempting to carry on the spirit of the absolute shit show that put him on the map. We all knew it wasn't meant to last.

 

[Greed]

Do you think the winding down was inevitable due to the crowdfunding model, or did the deluge of detritus and massively delayed fulfillments expedite the situation?

I'm not nearly as qualified to answer this as Dongs, but personally I'd chalk it up to the following factors:
- Late projects. New projects being announced while people are still asking where the books they ordered are, giving the sense that you'll never get to read something while it's still topical. I can't emphasize how important this is for comics.
- Deep lore. Drama being hashed out across multiple channels, multiple websites, partially visible to the public and partially hidden. Most people got confused as to who they were supposed to hate this week and simply checked out.
- Lack of story driven content. Four years in and we're still expected to buy books primarily because we think the author seems like a nice guy. Newman's already made this point, but nobody's buying these books to find out what happens next.
- Comics are becoming less popular in general and ceding many fans to manga. Less people are searching for new comics to read because they've simply given up on western entertainment (and I don't blame them).

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

The only significant comic book campaigns in the past two months are Clint Stoker's Downcast 3 and Patrick Thomas Parnell's Wordnerdian-named Ultra Star: Operation Super N.O.V.A. 5, both of which are projected to make under $50,000. As I've pointed out in the past, there's more "investment capital" locked in unfulfilled campaigns from 2019 and 2020 than all of 2021 combined. Put bluntly Comicsgate, at least in terms as an economic or ideological force, is rapidly winding down.

Good. Hopefully the last few holdouts will be forced to git gud and rebuild from there. Make it like it was meant to be.

I don't hold out much hope, but I still have some.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Do you think the winding down was inevitable due to the crowdfunding model, or did the deluge of detritus and massively delayed fulfillments expedite the situation?

I think it comes down to the fact that crowdfunded comics aren't really a good value for the money you have to spend for the books, especially for people outside the USA who have to take it up the pooper doubly hard on shipping costs. The novelty factor of it all, whether it is sticking it to the Ess Jay Dubyas (Meyer early on, @FROG to this day), celebrity involvement (Keanu's book), etc., will only get you so far. I don't see how it could possibly be sustainable on those terms.

Having said that, I don't think it is winding down so much as it has reached market saturation. The crowdfunded model does work, up to a point, but you're only going to get so many people willing to pay $25 for a 32 or even 64 page comic they can scan through in under twenty minutes. Some people are willing to do it, but most aren't. @FROG has indisputably found success but his coattails are pretty much nonexistent. Even whales only have so much money to spend.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

I don't see how it could possibly be sustainable on those terms.

Because people love to pay more for value. It's why when I was at Half Price Books a few days ago I passed on getting cheap DVDs of movies I knew they released on the Criterion Collection.

I buy a lot of blurays. I'd pay much more for a Criterion that I know has a beautiful scan of the movie that's director-approved, has a bunch of special features, than I would for a cheap DVD. I know it's the same movie, but I can either have a GREAT experience with it or just an okay one.

It's similar here. You can pay $25-35 for a crowdfunded comic that is actually gonna be great quality, won't have SJW politics in it, you'll interact with the creators through YouTube or Twitter, it's much better than going into a comic shop and buying something for $4.99 and getting a lecture. It's a unique situation for fans to be this directly involved with the creators and the creation of the book, giving feedback in real time, actually being part of something. You know where your dollars are going and you're helping a small business. And you know with CG you aren't going to be preached to about extreme leftist politics.

You can either have a great experience or a bad one--best case with a new comic from a comic shop in 2021 is just an okay experience.

It's why Criterion can release every new movie at $39.99 and people buy it. It's that quality people have learned they'll receive. If cheaper was always the better option, we'd never have bluray, we'd never have 4k, we wouldn't even have DVD, everything would be VHS.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Because people love to pay more for value.

As a general principle, I don't disagree with this statement.

It's similar here. You can pay $25-35 for a crowdfunded comic that is actually gonna be great quality, won't have SJW politics in it, you'll interact with the creators through YouTube or Twitter, it's much better than going into a comic shop and buying something for $4.99 and getting a lecture.

But I don't consider EITHER of your examples good values when it comes to me parting with my hard earned shekels, and I suspect the majority of the public does not, either. I do grant "value" is a subjective term, heck I even granted in my original post there's a limited audience for 32 page funny books in the $25+ range. But I do posit that demand for funny books at those price points is limited, and I suspect those limits have just about been reached. IOW, I stand by my belief the market is pretty much saturated and will very likely stagnate or grow only very slowly moving forward.

 

[A nameless trool]

It's similar here. You can pay $25-35 for a crowdfunded comic that is actually gonna be great quality, won't have SJW politics in it, you'll interact with the creators through YouTube or Twitter, it's much better than going into a comic shop and buying something for $4.99 and getting a lecture. It's a unique situation for fans to be this directly involved with the creators and the creation of the book, giving feedback in real time, actually being part of something. You know where your dollars are going and you're helping a small business. And you know with CG you aren't going to be preached to about extreme leftist politics.

You can either have a great experience or a bad one--best case with a new comic from a comic shop in 2021 is just an okay experience.

I can go to a comic shop every month, get my favourite comics for $4.99 and maybe interact with the creators in a convention, where they are mostly friendly people. Most of the assholes on twitter are NOT good creators and even the assholes can be decent people if not actively antagonized.

But I get more value by reading a good comicbook on the regural and in an affortable price.

You can have a great experience if you want to, and not going on twitter is a great start to add value to your comics.

 

[COMMI3 MARK]

I do grant "value" is a subjective term, heck I even granted in my original post there's a limited audience for 32 page funny books in the $25+ range. But I do posit that demand for funny books at those price points is limited, and I suspect those limits have just about been reached. IOW, I stand by my belief the market is pretty much saturated and will very likely stagnate or grow only very slowly moving forward.

We're certainly experiencing a lag period and I agree with the Dongs assessment that so many customers have so much capital tied up in projects they are yet to see that they're keeping their wallets in the their pockets for now.

Spoiler: Spolier

I've always been kinda riled by the $25 price point especially from first time creators - EVS, malin, Nolan, Fraga et al, sure - but for noob creators you better have the hottest shit if you want that sort of cash from me (especially plus postage)

I do think however that Ethan does listen to his customers and learned a lesson from both YBZs declining sales and the paltry quarter million on the Reignbow the Brute campaign. I suspect that when everyone gets their latest Cyberfrog books and then days later the action figure campaign drops (I assume he's gonna be timing them like this) that we'll see a HUGE community wide boost and a reinvigoration of sales across the board. I wouldnt be surprised to see the 2021 totals quintuple 60 days after the action figures launch.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

I do think however that Ethan does listen to his customers

I do as well. And I think he'll continue to do very well, barring some catastrophe like a banning from YouTube or Twitter, the sort of thing that would seriously hamper his marketing efforts.

that we'll see a HUGE community wide boost and a reinvigoration of sales across the board.

Not quite sure what is meant by "community wide," but I'm deeply skeptical some sort of rising tide that is going to lift all boats is anywhere on the horizon. I certainly don't see any sort of Biden-led economic boom that is going to put lots of disposable cash in people's pockets.

I didn't really think about this, but aren't quite a few former buyers also disaffected about long delays and getting books that emerge from shipping looking like they were used to wrap Big Macs? Will these folks queue up again for another go round?

I would be surprised to see the 2021 totals quintuple 60 days after the action figures launch.

You really think there's that much untapped demand out there? Whether it is whales with bottomless pockets or some sort of undiscovered market niche willing to shell out for comic books at these prices I'm afraid you're going to have to color me skeptical.

I do think the big names will continue to do well, and some sort of novelty book inside or outside of CG coming out of nowhere and doing well also wouldn't surprise me. But I also think campaigns from relative nobodies will continue to either fail to fund or fund at such ridiculously low levels the creators will wish they hadn't achieved funding.

I guess we'll see.

 

[FROG]

We're certainly experiencing a lag period and I agree with the Dongs assessment that so many customers have so much capital tied up in projects they are yet to see that they're keeping their wallets in the their pockets for now.

Spoiler: Spolier

I've always been kinda riled by the $25 price point especially from first time creators - EVS, malin, Nolan, Fraga et al, sure - but for noob creators you better have the hottest shit if you want that sort of cash from me (especially plus postage)

I do think however that Ethan does listen to his customers and learned a lesson from both YBZs declining sales and the paltry quarter million on the Reignbow the Brute campaign. I suspect that when everyone gets their latest Cyberfrog books and then days later the action figure campaign drops (I assume he's gonna be timing them like this) that we'll see a HUGE community wide boost and a reinvigoration of sales across the board. I wouldnt be surprised to see the 2021 totals quintuple 60 days after the action figures launch.

REIGNBOW THE BRUTE is approaching HALF a million, not a quarter million. I think we're at $432K, and frankly, I just haven't promoted it properly. It's like a placeholder campaign.

Look, I'm launching Frog Action Figures on 7/4 during WARTS AND ALL fulfillment, which begins today.

I'm then offering a new BLOODHONEY BOX campaign, which was based on fan demand. It looks spectacular. It'll come with two new variants of the book, and some variant PVCs. I think that'll hit $100K.

And once REKT PLANET is complete, I'm launching CYBERFROG 3.

2021 will be a back loaded year for ComicsGate.

Last night I discovered a book called DAMEGANG, which looks really good. It was sitting at about $600, and then I began promoting it. It got funded and will pass $5000 today. https://igg.me/at/GFaCS7L3h8U/x/3778633#/

I'm hesitant to even offer coattails anymore. But when I do, it still works!

 

[COMMI3 MARK]

REIGNBOW THE BRUTE is approaching HALF a million, not a quarter million. I think we're at $432K, and frankly, I just haven't promoted it properly. It's like a placeholder campaign.

My bad. I haven't checked the campaign for some time it would seem.

Look, I'm launching Frog Action Figures on 7/4 during WARTS AND ALL fulfillment, which begins today.

I'm then offering a new BLOODHONEY BOX campaign, which was based on fan demand. It looks spectacular. It'll come with two new variants of the book, and some variant PVCs. I think that'll hit $100K.

And once REKT PLANET is complete, I'm launching CYBERFROG 3.

2021 will be a back loaded year for ComicsGate.

Yeah that's basically what I'd expected. Pull it all off and that total 2021 funding figure will quintuple.

You really think there's that much untapped demand out there? Whether it is whales with bottomless pockets or some sort of undiscovered market niche willing to shell out for comic books at these prices I'm afraid you're going to have to color me skeptical.

Im perhaps hyberbolic to suggest it'll be with the 60 days. But I fully expect Ethan to single handedly add at least another $4.5m to the overall title by the end of the year.

 

[TiredAndInked]

Do you think the winding down was inevitable due to the crowdfunding model, or did the deluge of detritus and massively delayed fulfillments expedite the situation?

I think the delayed fulfillment is what killed it. CG is more a cult of personality as of late than a comic book collective.

Frog will continue selling as he’s got skills, but there’s a lot of unfulfilled in CG, alongside nightmares like Martina and the Red rooster drama

 

[FROG]

My bad. I haven't checked the campaign for some time it would seem.



Yeah that's basically what I'd expected. Pull it all off and that total 2021 funding figure will quintuple.




Im perhaps hyberbolic to suggest it'll be with the 60 days. But I fully expect Ethan to single handedly add at least another $4.5m to the overall title by the end of the year.

Fucking hell. $1M tops.

Oh yeah, I've also gotta get the HEATHER SWAIN statue funded. So that'll be in there somewhere.

Jon Malin's GODLIKE will be interesting. That launches in a month too.

I think the delayed fulfillment is what killed it. CG is more a cult of personality as of late than a comic book collective.

No, I'm just damned charming. ComicsGate is still people practicing good customer service and trying to create a superior product. Where individuals attempt that and fail, they'll fall away from the pack. New people will join, both big name pros and talented newcomers, and they'll get their shot too.

Of course, being a part of ALL CAPS COMICS helps.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Fucking hell. $1M tops.

Oh yeah, I've also gotta get the HEATHER SWAIN statue funded. So that'll be in there somewhere.

Jon Malin's GODLIKE will be interesting. That launches in a month too.



No, I'm just damned charming. ComicsGate is still people practicing good customer service and trying to create a superior product. Where individuals attempt that and fail, they'll fall away from the pack. New people will join, both big name pros and talented newcomers, and they'll get their shot too.

Of course, being a part of ALL CAPS COMICS helps.

If you really want to own the SJW's just tell them how much you're paying the IRS every quarter. That should be your pinned tweet every three months.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Do you think the winding down was inevitable due to the crowdfunding model, or did the deluge of detritus and massively delayed fulfillments expedite the situation?

Massively delayed fulfillments appear to be a key factor. Crowdfunding as a whole is growing and looks to be fine; most people who are to deliver what they promise on time, both within and without CG, is growing at least incrementally. People like to point out Tim Lim's success in growing Kamen America as a snub, but individuals like Jon Malin, Graham Nolan, Mandy Summers, Mark Poulton and even TUG are able to build on previous campaigns simply by a solid track record of fulfillment. The sad fact is is that most Comicsgate "figureheads" are, four years in, still working on campaign one.

Customers will return to back an individual that has a track record of delivery, but the genus of the "Comicsgate customer" that will back an unproven property based on personality or ideological solidarity after Mitch Breitweiser or Richard C Meyer, or the 44 other overdue comics, is an increasingly endangered species. Not even getting into the explosion of comics that were launched in 2021

Let's take a look at Frog's latest stream as a weathervane:

After testing the waters with a professional "storefolio" mockup of the ALL CAPS publishing family - Cyberfrog, Snowman, Starblades, Creed, Jawbreakers and Reinbow Brute, Frog then goes through the latest comic news for the day. First is the impending next biggest crowdfunded comic, MOM by Emelia Clarke. Clarke, looking at Keanu's success with BRZRKR, is doing a media tour about her own upcoming superhero IP with Image Comics; a comedic superhero comic in the vein of Deadpool about a single mom superhero who's powers are linked to menstruation and zips along the city skyline like Spider-Man using her unkempt pubes. Overall his verdict is one of support - the comic has a female protagonist that isn't a Mary Sue and it's an independent, creator-owned IP. The other topic is an SJW who threatened to dox Frog on twitter, which tremendously amused him. The rest of the hour is a debut of the Cybefrog action figure line.

After an hour, Patrick Thomas Parnell of Ultra Saints: Hyperhayvard Nova 8 joins. His stance on the MOM comic is that Image used to make Spawn, which was redpilled and now they make MOM, which is soy. Frog moves on to the part where they comment on another Bounding Into Comics article, this one about Zack Snyder for the purposes of bashing him, Ray Fisher and mock the Snyder Bros that think Justice League 2 is going to happen. Mark Poulton, currently working on #4125 CG werewolf comic Viking Wolf, is brought on at 1:20:00 for a very special moment as Frog confronts his audience for allowing a Comicsgate comic so good that he's angry at his audience for letting it slip by with only 12 backers. His guests Poulton and Parnell must help him right this great wrong. He speaks, of course, of DAMEGANG

Offering 88 pages of giantess-fueled fetish material, more than Patrick and Poulton's equally priced works combined, this no doubt future classic proves popular with the Comicsgate faithful:

Parnell for his part says it "looks like something Robert Crumb would like" while Mark Poulton sits there in pained silence, the default expression of Mark Poulton in any stream. There's a brief interlude of a third BoC article, this one about how Kathleen Kennedy's contract is due for renewal so Frog can beat it in the Fandom Menace viewers' heads that this isn't going to happen, but this is cut short as Frog loses interest in peeling away disaffected people from the crumbling Fandom Menace movement and brings on Eric July and Shane Davis to grills them on their opinion of DAMEGANG.

Jon Malin, Peter Simeti and Cecil also join and are kind of there I guess, in the Mark Poulton sense. "Publishing Pete" breaks ranks by having a topic he'd actually like to contribute; the new crowdfunding platform "created exclusively for the fandom community", Zoop. Zoop, founded as a collaboration between IDW Execs and former Kickstarter commissar Camilla Zhong, describes itself as a "concierge" service that offers to provide "end-to-end campaign managment", including customer relations, fulfillement and marketing so that indie creators can concentrate on making comics. Frog sees this as a means for parasites to fleece and gatekeep the people too afraid to go into business for themselves. Eric July, the only non-comic creator on the panel, surprisingly has the strongest opinion on this, saying that the separation between creators and fans was what led to the decline of the comic industry in the first place and that this business only offers to continue that detached practice.