- Joined
- Jul 22, 2015
It's $50 on my country's Amazon, but I got it cheaper on eBay. It'll be interesting to see if it covers the Lizzie Borden murders.
Creepy Unsolved Mysteries - From unsolved murders to unidentified people to unexplained supernatural events, what are some of the creepiest unsolved mysteries you've ever heard of?
- Thread starter Bunny Tracks
- Start date
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🔧 At about Midnight EST I am going to completely fuck up the site trying to fix something.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
It doesn't, IIRC. It's concentrated on axe/farming implement family murders that took place within several miles of a train line or junction. The author thinks that a guy was riding the rails and occasionally hopping off to commit murder. It's not unknown, there was an illegal alien a decade or two ago that was doing the same thing.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2015
I remember reading a theory that the Borden murders were connected to a series of very similar axe murders around the state at the time, and that there was a book written about it, but I've never been able to find the book. It's extremely aggravating. The Borden murders were in the city and also would have been close to a train line.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
The Borden murders don't really fit the pattern laid out in The Man From the Train. The Borden murders happened during daylight hours, and if the pattern had held true for the Borden murders everyone in the house would have been killed, including Lizzie and the maid. One of the elements of the TMFTT murders was murder by axe, yes, but mostly by using the blunt back end of an axe to smash in heads. That seems to be a signature element. With the Borden murders you had massive trauma from axe wounds, and the level of overkill definitely suggests someone with an emotional tie to the victims.
Here's a quote from wikipedia (I know, but still) about the signature elements of TMFTT:
The Borden murders don't really fit any of that.
Here's a quote from wikipedia (I know, but still) about the signature elements of TMFTT:
The Borden murders don't really fit any of that.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2017
The Lizzie Borden case is strange because if Lizzie did do it, her motive is not exactly clear.
It's been argued to hell and back whether or not it was because her father killed her pigeons, if he sexually abused her, if he, or his wife caught doing something she wasn't supposed to, if she just had a psychotic break, or if she was just plain sick of him, and her stepmother.
At the time, the motive given by the prosecution was greed, and while Lizzie's father was a wealthy man, her killing them way in which they died is frankly extremely stupid, and unnecessarily violent.
In reality, it was probably a combination of things that led her to do it, but even then, despite all the evidence, it's surprising that one of America's most famous murder cases actually ended in an acquittal and is still technically unsolved.
It's been argued to hell and back whether or not it was because her father killed her pigeons, if he sexually abused her, if he, or his wife caught doing something she wasn't supposed to, if she just had a psychotic break, or if she was just plain sick of him, and her stepmother.
At the time, the motive given by the prosecution was greed, and while Lizzie's father was a wealthy man, her killing them way in which they died is frankly extremely stupid, and unnecessarily violent.
In reality, it was probably a combination of things that led her to do it, but even then, despite all the evidence, it's surprising that one of America's most famous murder cases actually ended in an acquittal and is still technically unsolved.
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
Was that even a thing that happened? I can't remember seeing that mentioned anywhere but that one movie with Elizabeth Montgomery.
More Hinterkaifeck stuff, because I am realizing that I'm pretty autistic over it.
Video where two ladies camp in the Hexenholz
Vanessa Blank - Bushcraft & Adventure
A guy walked around the area where the farm had been
Marco Haselbaur
Some ghost hunters check things out
Spuknacht - Die Geisterjager
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2017
Upon looking into it further, both yes, and no. The information on the specifics is sparse, vague, and occasionally contradictory. From what I can gather, this seems to be what happened.
Andrew Borden did kill some pigeons that were in the family's barn, but they weren't Lizzie's pigeons specifically. They were either some birds that were just kept for livestock, or they were just ones that happened to take roost inside the Bordens' barn.
They weren't beheaded with an axe, but instead just had their necks broken. Most of the birds killed were missing their heads when they were brought inside to cook, but when Lizzie asked her father about this, he said they had "twisted off". The prosecution did ask if they appeared twisted off, or cut off, and Lizzie admitted she didn't know, because she didn't really look the injuries that particularly.
Lastly, Andrew didn't do it to punish Lizzie. He allegedly just did it because he thought they were attracting kids who wanted to hunt them onto his property. and given Lizzie's uncaringness about the situation while testifying on the stand, they probably didn't actually have any significance to her at all.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2022
The Hinterkaifeck Murders are an absolute fucking trip.
The typical horror cliches are all there: mysterious footprints, objects mysteriously appearing and disappearing, and a house that eerily went quiet for a few days before the neighbors found out what happened.
Hinterkaifeck was a farm that was on the outskirts of Kaifeck, Germany. The occupants were an old man named Andreas Gruber, his wife Cäzilia, their widow daughter Viktoria Gabriel, her kids Cäzilia (same name as her grandmother) and Josef, and their maid Maria Baumgartner who had just started working there on March 31st 1922.
Six months prior to the murder, the previous maid quit on grounds that she thought the house was haunted, supposedly hearing footsteps when nobody was home. In the weeks proceeding to the murder, Andreas claimed he found two people’s foot prints in the snow that started at the forest and went to the farmhouse, and once found a newspaper he had no recollection of buying. Additionally in the days before the murder a house key was said to have gone missing. The Gruber family were semi-pariahs in their community, with rumors (later confirmed by court records) that Andreas had an incestuous relationship with Viktoria, so many of these claims were just brushed off.
The first rumblings that something was wrong was that people showed up to the farmhouse but found it to be eerily quiet and empty; none of the family was out tending to the farm and the family dog was not seen running around. Additionally, the postman noted that mail had begun to pile up. The final warning sign was that little Cäzilia had not been at school in a few days.
Neighbors Lorenz Schlittenbauer, Jakob Sigl and Michael Pöll decided to investigate on April 4th, 1922. Finding all the doors locked, they decided to break in through the barn’s machine room. Inside the barn, they found a grisly sight: the four bodies of Andreas, Viktoria and the two Cäzilias were under a board covered with hay, found to have been killed systematically with blows to the head. After moving the bodies, Schlittenbauer produced a key (we’ll get to that later) that opened the door leading into the farmhouse, where in spite of the house’s quietness over the past few days appeared to have had recent activity in it. They then found the bodies of Maria and Josef, bludgeoned to death in their beds.
The investigation uncovered some grisly details. The Gruber family had been murdered on March 31st, but the presence of someone living in the house indicates that whoever killed the Gruber family had lived there for three days with the body. Additionally, utilizing early forensics the investigators established that each of the family members who were killed in the barn were led in there… one by one. Finally, evidence showed that the younger Cäzilia had been alive for several hours after the assault… tearing her hair out in tufts while lying in the straw.
There were initial problems in the investigation, one of which was no murder weapon had been found. The investigator determined the murder weapon was a pick mattock, which is a farming tool that is essentially a hybrid of a pickaxe and a hoe. Other witness reports came but for reasons unknown were not investigated. One witness report of note is three days before the bodies were discovered, artisan Michael Plöckl passed by Hinterkaifeck at night. Plöckl observed that the oven had been heated by someone, and that person had approached him with a lantern and blinded him, to which he sped up and kept walking. Plöckl also noticed that the smoke from the fireplace had a disgusting smell. Despite this grim testimony, no investigations were conducted to determine what had been burned that night in the oven.
There were two predominant murder suspects. The first was Karl Gabriel, the supposedly dead husband of Viktoria who had been said to have died in a shelling in World War I but whose body had never been recovered. After the murders, locals began to question if Karl had truly died, and was infuriated by claims that his son Josef was actually Andreas’, born out of incestuous rape. At the end of World War II, captives from the Schrobenhausen region who were released prematurely from Soviet captivity claimed that they had been sent home by a German-speaking Soviet officer who claimed to be the murderer of Hinterkaifeck. Some of these men later revised their statements, which diminishes their credibility, but it is noteworthy that Karl had expressed interest in moving to the Soviet Union. Additionally, old war buddies would later claim they saw Karl alive.
The second major suspect was Lorenz Schlittenbauer. Evidence included producing the house key during the murders after he supposedly could not get in any of the locked house doors, his claim during the initial investigation that Josef was his son, and disturbing the bodies, which would compromise a thorough investigation. Rumors circulated that Schlittenbauer had consistently pressed Viktoria for money, based on previous withdrawals she had made at the town bank. Later on in 1925, a local school teacher found Lorenz at the demolished farm, wherein he stated that the perpetrator's attempt to bury the family's remains in the barn had been hindered by the frozen ground. This was seen as evidence that Schlittenbauer had intimate knowledge of the conditions of the ground at the time of the murders, although being a neighbor and familiar with the local land, he may have been making an educated guess. Lorenz would ultimately become the local suspect, and later on successfully won libel suits against him stemming from this.
Overall, the police conducted over a hundred interviews but failed to make any conclusion or arrests. The murders faded from an active part of the community’s day to day life and into a tragic tale, and Hinterkaifeck was demolished. During the demolition, a discovery was made: the pick mattock that had been used to murder the occupants of the house.
It was found in the attic.
The typical horror cliches are all there: mysterious footprints, objects mysteriously appearing and disappearing, and a house that eerily went quiet for a few days before the neighbors found out what happened.
Hinterkaifeck was a farm that was on the outskirts of Kaifeck, Germany. The occupants were an old man named Andreas Gruber, his wife Cäzilia, their widow daughter Viktoria Gabriel, her kids Cäzilia (same name as her grandmother) and Josef, and their maid Maria Baumgartner who had just started working there on March 31st 1922.
Six months prior to the murder, the previous maid quit on grounds that she thought the house was haunted, supposedly hearing footsteps when nobody was home. In the weeks proceeding to the murder, Andreas claimed he found two people’s foot prints in the snow that started at the forest and went to the farmhouse, and once found a newspaper he had no recollection of buying. Additionally in the days before the murder a house key was said to have gone missing. The Gruber family were semi-pariahs in their community, with rumors (later confirmed by court records) that Andreas had an incestuous relationship with Viktoria, so many of these claims were just brushed off.
The first rumblings that something was wrong was that people showed up to the farmhouse but found it to be eerily quiet and empty; none of the family was out tending to the farm and the family dog was not seen running around. Additionally, the postman noted that mail had begun to pile up. The final warning sign was that little Cäzilia had not been at school in a few days.
Neighbors Lorenz Schlittenbauer, Jakob Sigl and Michael Pöll decided to investigate on April 4th, 1922. Finding all the doors locked, they decided to break in through the barn’s machine room. Inside the barn, they found a grisly sight: the four bodies of Andreas, Viktoria and the two Cäzilias were under a board covered with hay, found to have been killed systematically with blows to the head. After moving the bodies, Schlittenbauer produced a key (we’ll get to that later) that opened the door leading into the farmhouse, where in spite of the house’s quietness over the past few days appeared to have had recent activity in it. They then found the bodies of Maria and Josef, bludgeoned to death in their beds.
The investigation uncovered some grisly details. The Gruber family had been murdered on March 31st, but the presence of someone living in the house indicates that whoever killed the Gruber family had lived there for three days with the body. Additionally, utilizing early forensics the investigators established that each of the family members who were killed in the barn were led in there… one by one. Finally, evidence showed that the younger Cäzilia had been alive for several hours after the assault… tearing her hair out in tufts while lying in the straw.
There were initial problems in the investigation, one of which was no murder weapon had been found. The investigator determined the murder weapon was a pick mattock, which is a farming tool that is essentially a hybrid of a pickaxe and a hoe. Other witness reports came but for reasons unknown were not investigated. One witness report of note is three days before the bodies were discovered, artisan Michael Plöckl passed by Hinterkaifeck at night. Plöckl observed that the oven had been heated by someone, and that person had approached him with a lantern and blinded him, to which he sped up and kept walking. Plöckl also noticed that the smoke from the fireplace had a disgusting smell. Despite this grim testimony, no investigations were conducted to determine what had been burned that night in the oven.
There were two predominant murder suspects. The first was Karl Gabriel, the supposedly dead husband of Viktoria who had been said to have died in a shelling in World War I but whose body had never been recovered. After the murders, locals began to question if Karl had truly died, and was infuriated by claims that his son Josef was actually Andreas’, born out of incestuous rape. At the end of World War II, captives from the Schrobenhausen region who were released prematurely from Soviet captivity claimed that they had been sent home by a German-speaking Soviet officer who claimed to be the murderer of Hinterkaifeck. Some of these men later revised their statements, which diminishes their credibility, but it is noteworthy that Karl had expressed interest in moving to the Soviet Union. Additionally, old war buddies would later claim they saw Karl alive.
The second major suspect was Lorenz Schlittenbauer. Evidence included producing the house key during the murders after he supposedly could not get in any of the locked house doors, his claim during the initial investigation that Josef was his son, and disturbing the bodies, which would compromise a thorough investigation. Rumors circulated that Schlittenbauer had consistently pressed Viktoria for money, based on previous withdrawals she had made at the town bank. Later on in 1925, a local school teacher found Lorenz at the demolished farm, wherein he stated that the perpetrator's attempt to bury the family's remains in the barn had been hindered by the frozen ground. This was seen as evidence that Schlittenbauer had intimate knowledge of the conditions of the ground at the time of the murders, although being a neighbor and familiar with the local land, he may have been making an educated guess. Lorenz would ultimately become the local suspect, and later on successfully won libel suits against him stemming from this.
Overall, the police conducted over a hundred interviews but failed to make any conclusion or arrests. The murders faded from an active part of the community’s day to day life and into a tragic tale, and Hinterkaifeck was demolished. During the demolition, a discovery was made: the pick mattock that had been used to murder the occupants of the house.
It was found in the attic.
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- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
Are we doing Ghost Stories here too?
b/c I thought that was a diff thread? I pulled some stories here for just that reason.
but...
I got some GGRREEAAATT (not tony the tiger) GHOST STORIES!!!
let me know if I should post here
b/c I thought that was a diff thread? I pulled some stories here for just that reason.
but...
I got some GGRREEAAATT (not tony the tiger) GHOST STORIES!!!
let me know if I should post here
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2017
This is just for creepy unsolved mysteries. No ghost stories, please.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2017
Oh, I thought you meant fictional ghost stories. Like campfire shit. If it's stuff like the Bell Witch, and things like that, then yeah, go ahead.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
Nope, My shit is 'real' .
Personally, I believe none of it... but it happens around me - never 'to' me.
Starters (from another thread):
I work in factories. All over the US, Canada, and Mexico. Intercontinental on occasion...
I posted a story in another thread about a factory built on (actually _in_) a 150+ yo cemetery
I was replacing the lights inside the facility (pitch-dark, 70% of the lights were dead). A worker came up to thank me in broken english...
"thank you very much, senor, you see... the woman...."
I asked for context from a more fluent associate.
The facility being so dark in the winter afternoon at shift end (single shift plant), caused the workers a great deal of distress. On occasion, the fathers would pick up the mothers at the plant. While waiting for the mothers to end their shift - an 'entity' would lure children towards an old wooden staircase.
The children would be half-paying attention, and believed the entity was their mother. They would follow the woman (while browsing on their phones).
Always towards the staircase. No one knows why the staircase was the focus. Evil was suspected, but never demonstrated.
One associate became rather heated about the 'woman' but was dismissed by the others...
More was known about this 'woman' but I did not receive the rest...
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- Joined
- Jul 5, 2017
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
Factory Ghosts #2 ++
Currently I am closing a factory. Shit is being moved, but 90% is being shit-canned.
anyway...
My crew did a good job and was finished ~a week early. Final inspection and reports go on for another month (sometimes 2).
Lots of stuff... Keys to hand in, landlord inspection/demolition. State EPA (no asbestos, lead pipes, etc...). Tons of reports.
I mentioned to the remaining 2 maintenance guys 'the crews went through here like demons!' .
They looked at each other uncomfortably... The supervisor spoke first...
"We've had...problems... of that kind here.
This land is sacred to a native people of the area. This building has always had... Problems."
[the stories]
Upstairs- The Executive Floor
Abnormal amounts of loss/breakage of mundane items. Coffee accidents. Pictures/Clocks falling off walls, etc. Nothing too eyebrow raising. Maybe an admin wrestling with a drinking problem. Who knows? People are stupid.
Until 2 years ago.
Jean was sitting in her cubicle, filling out 'sustainability' reports for corporate.
A wrapped roll of paper towels fell off the countertop in the coffee station. Caught from the corner of her eye. She turned and glanced curiously.
Then another.
Then a carafe dropped. Followed by 6 coffee cups flying sideways in rapid succession followed by a hard hat and ending with the first-aid locker.
All propelled 10-20 feet away from their origin. The ordeal lasted in excess of 30 seconds.
Jean captured it all ON HER PHONE.
This area has zero earthquakes or magnetic phenomena.
I promise I will get that video.
Currently I am closing a factory. Shit is being moved, but 90% is being shit-canned.
Don't ever believe 'corporate responsibility' or 'green programs'
I personally watched $1 million worth of perfectly fine office products go into the bin
$10,000 mahagony executive desks. 3 yo laptops stacked like paper, tossed away
nothing recycled.
Just because it would take effort, and there is never a politician at the dumpster when you need one.
I personally watched $1 million worth of perfectly fine office products go into the bin
$10,000 mahagony executive desks. 3 yo laptops stacked like paper, tossed away
nothing recycled.
Just because it would take effort, and there is never a politician at the dumpster when you need one.
My crew did a good job and was finished ~a week early. Final inspection and reports go on for another month (sometimes 2).
Lots of stuff... Keys to hand in, landlord inspection/demolition. State EPA (no asbestos, lead pipes, etc...). Tons of reports.
I mentioned to the remaining 2 maintenance guys 'the crews went through here like demons!' .
They looked at each other uncomfortably... The supervisor spoke first...
"We've had...problems... of that kind here.
This land is sacred to a native people of the area. This building has always had... Problems."
[the stories]
Upstairs- The Executive Floor
Abnormal amounts of loss/breakage of mundane items. Coffee accidents. Pictures/Clocks falling off walls, etc. Nothing too eyebrow raising. Maybe an admin wrestling with a drinking problem. Who knows? People are stupid.
Until 2 years ago.
Jean was sitting in her cubicle, filling out 'sustainability' reports for corporate.
A wrapped roll of paper towels fell off the countertop in the coffee station. Caught from the corner of her eye. She turned and glanced curiously.
Then another.
Then a carafe dropped. Followed by 6 coffee cups flying sideways in rapid succession followed by a hard hat and ending with the first-aid locker.
All propelled 10-20 feet away from their origin. The ordeal lasted in excess of 30 seconds.
Jean captured it all ON HER PHONE.
This area has zero earthquakes or magnetic phenomena.
I promise I will get that video.
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- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
Factory Ghost Story 2B, Same Place Different Ghosts
So - This same haunted factory apparently had an issue with 2 entities on the first floor - at the docks.
Frequent sightings of a 'normal' woman, and her child were noticed on the factory floor. Jarring, due to unprotected personnel in casual clothing walking in a heavy-equipment facility.
After a few sightings started circulating in the area, a 'hobbiest ghostbuster' was determined to get proof on tape.
Hired as a Security Guard, this 'ghostbuster' worked the late shift. Each night he would set up additional cameras, EMF recorders, and other nonsense equipment to analyze the area.
For months nothing happened.
One night (within 3 months of the previous story) he saw a child playing on the docks of the factory at 2 AM. This was seen on CCTV - recorded security cameras.
No ghostly mirage, 'shimmer' or transparent apparition. Just a normal child ~7 yo bouncing a ball while sitting on the leveling plate of a truck dock.
Believing this to be an actual child he sprinted to the area, ~200 ft away.
When he arrived at the docks he saw a woman stooping in conversation with the child. The security guard interrupted...
"Excuse me, ma'am, I am going to have to ask you to leave. This is private property and a dangerous area..."
His mind started to clear, as he realized the area was protected by at least 4 locked doors during non-working hours, and that is was past 2AM in the morning.
"...by the way how did you..." His question was interrupted by both figures turning towards him.
Neither one had a face. Completely blank. No features from forehead to chin. The figures rose and promptly vanished.
He screamed. Dropped his keys and tripped over the tripod holding his video recorder that he diligently activated each night.
He asked a colleague to collect his personal items and last paycheck, he refused to ever set foot in the building again.
Maintenance personnel all swear they have or have personally seen the footage. The recording is/was passed from person-to-person. Several deleted it promptly, due to the footage being far too disturbing to retain.
The two stories I have recounted were both verified by several personnel and third parties (contractors) that worked in the facility.
The admin 'Jean' previously mentioned is the ex-wife of a millwright that I use frequently.
So - This same haunted factory apparently had an issue with 2 entities on the first floor - at the docks.
Frequent sightings of a 'normal' woman, and her child were noticed on the factory floor. Jarring, due to unprotected personnel in casual clothing walking in a heavy-equipment facility.
After a few sightings started circulating in the area, a 'hobbiest ghostbuster' was determined to get proof on tape.
Hired as a Security Guard, this 'ghostbuster' worked the late shift. Each night he would set up additional cameras, EMF recorders, and other nonsense equipment to analyze the area.
For months nothing happened.
One night (within 3 months of the previous story) he saw a child playing on the docks of the factory at 2 AM. This was seen on CCTV - recorded security cameras.
No ghostly mirage, 'shimmer' or transparent apparition. Just a normal child ~7 yo bouncing a ball while sitting on the leveling plate of a truck dock.
Believing this to be an actual child he sprinted to the area, ~200 ft away.
When he arrived at the docks he saw a woman stooping in conversation with the child. The security guard interrupted...
"Excuse me, ma'am, I am going to have to ask you to leave. This is private property and a dangerous area..."
His mind started to clear, as he realized the area was protected by at least 4 locked doors during non-working hours, and that is was past 2AM in the morning.
"...by the way how did you..." His question was interrupted by both figures turning towards him.
Neither one had a face. Completely blank. No features from forehead to chin. The figures rose and promptly vanished.
He screamed. Dropped his keys and tripped over the tripod holding his video recorder that he diligently activated each night.
He asked a colleague to collect his personal items and last paycheck, he refused to ever set foot in the building again.
Maintenance personnel all swear they have or have personally seen the footage. The recording is/was passed from person-to-person. Several deleted it promptly, due to the footage being far too disturbing to retain.
The two stories I have recounted were both verified by several personnel and third parties (contractors) that worked in the facility.
The admin 'Jean' previously mentioned is the ex-wife of a millwright that I use frequently.
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- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
Factory Ghosts - Last Installment (for NOW).
So, I have worked in this facility with 2 other people for about 3 months.
Paranormal encounters? Not really.
But my colleagues and I hear shit all the time- for weeks.
Really heavy shit being dragged across the second floor. Nails-on-chalkboard squeals from upstairs.
I addressed this with the last Maintenance in the building, today.
"Hey, just wondering if you could tell the scrappers to keep it down to a dull roar. We are trying to finalize the close-out of the property"
his response:
"Anon, there is no one else here. Just you two and me. No one is upstairs."
This is my last week in that building. I have literally been hearing shit for over a month above me. I am so used to demo/scrap/rigging crews that I mentally blocked it.
Thought nothing of it until today.
There has been nobody upstairs all this time.
So, I have worked in this facility with 2 other people for about 3 months.
Paranormal encounters? Not really.
But my colleagues and I hear shit all the time- for weeks.
Really heavy shit being dragged across the second floor. Nails-on-chalkboard squeals from upstairs.
I addressed this with the last Maintenance in the building, today.
"Hey, just wondering if you could tell the scrappers to keep it down to a dull roar. We are trying to finalize the close-out of the property"
his response:
"Anon, there is no one else here. Just you two and me. No one is upstairs."
This is my last week in that building. I have literally been hearing shit for over a month above me. I am so used to demo/scrap/rigging crews that I mentally blocked it.
Thought nothing of it until today.
There has been nobody upstairs all this time.
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- Joined
- Mar 24, 2021
I would like to know more of what you think about it. I'm particularly interested in underwater salvage and construction and from my understanding it seemed relatively clear cut as far as recover goes. Just from memory, Howard Hughes was the lead and not completely crazy in the bad way yet. Design and function was as intended but not wholly effective. Some portions were unable to be recovered, of those that were there's the usual classified cargo, and the repatriation of remains. I don't recall hearing about major inconsistencies but am open to being simply ignorant right now.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2021
There was some shenanigans about what was recovered. Something about the bell being recovered and later gifted to the Russians which would be on the conning tower but the US claimed the conning tower wasn't recovered.