💼 Careercow Dan Harmon - Creator of Community, co-creator of Rick and Morty, and barely functional alcoholic

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Tard said:
Do they not realize it's not cool to like rick and Morty anymore? Like the only time I ever hear about it now is when people are mocking eachother for being psuedo intellectuals
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slight :powerlevel: here, but I still see quite a few fans at conventions. There are a LOT of lazy rick and morty cosplayers
It does seem to come up a lot less in casual conversations though, so thank fuck for that.
 
Suck the Cock said:
Season 3 failed because it tried to do pent-up drama in the first place. What made Seasons 1 and 2 work was Roiland's improvisational nonsense. Before Rick and Morty, Roiland was famous for a bunch of memey dipshit animations, back from when that was popular on the internet. Adult Swim is famous for taking this sort of unconventional shit and bringing it to a wider audience with a bigger budget. Harmon was brought in because, presumably, he hadn't fallen deep enough into depressive lolcow territory yet and Community was famous for being a quirky subversive show.
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Dan was brought on because Justin realized he couldn't make an entire cartoon that's just constant stupid improvising and stretch it into an entire season of a show.

Quite honestly, I've been thinking a lot about Dan and his role in making Community ever since this whole downwards spiral of his. It's just so weird to me that a clever and well-written show like Community was made by the same guy who penned terrible boring garbage like R&M season 3. Considering how bad Community got when he was removed from the show until the point where one of the lead actors admitted to crying over it, there seems to be something there in that rotten alcoholic core of his that is capable of producing quality stuff just as long as there are people to reign him in, kind of like an alcoholic deviant George Lucas.
 
vertexwindi said:
Dan was brought on because Justin realized he couldn't make an entire cartoon that's just constant stupid improvising and stretch it into an entire season of a show.

Quite honestly, I've been thinking a lot about Dan and his role in making Community ever since this whole downwards spiral of his. It's just so weird to me that a clever and well-written show like Community was made by the same guy who penned terrible boring garbage like R&M season 3. Considering how bad Community got when he was removed from the show until the point where one of the lead actors admitted to crying over it, there seems to be something there in that rotten alcoholic core of his that is capable of producing quality stuff just as long as there are people to reign him in, kind of like an alcoholic deviant George Lucas.
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I think hiring writers for "diversity" and not talent had something to do with season 3 sucking.
 
vertexwindi said:
It's just so weird to me that a clever and well-written show like Community was made by the same guy who penned terrible boring garbage like R&M season 3.
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There's a clear decline in quality in all of Harmon's work, as it goes on. Each season of both Community and Rick and Morty was worse than the last, with the obvious exception of Community Season 4. I didn't follow Harmon's personal life until this thread, but from everything I've heard, he really didn't start acting like a full-on lolcow until recently. I can't see current Harmon producing anything resembling the Community Season 1, or even Season 6. Current Harmon would be lucky to keep up with Season 4. And Rick and Morty's quality is dropping way faster than Community's, even with Roiland keeping it afloat. Modern Harmon wouldn't ever have gotten to the position he is in today, simply because of how unstable and confrontational he is, let alone the quality of his work.

It's the nature of these things to spiral. Alcoholism, SJWism, Social Media addiction, huge egos, etc. It takes a while for them to snowball out of control, but once they happen there's no stopping them. I'm sure the deviant George Lucas is trapped somewhere in that giant beer gut of his, but it isn't getting out without some sort of massive intervention.
 
Tard said:
Do they not realize it's not cool to like rick and Morty anymore? Like the only time I ever hear about it now is when people are mocking eachother for being psuedo intellectuals
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popoto-chan said:
slight :powerlevel: here, but I still see quite a few fans at conventions. There are a LOT of lazy rick and morty cosplayers
It does seem to come up a lot less in casual conversations though, so thank fuck for that.
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Internet shit generally stays on the internet, the meme is R&M fans need very high IQs but your average Adult Swim watching pud has likely never even heard the joke, much less is embarrassed enough by the association to drop the show.
 
The fans and the Internet in general forget he's a raging alcoholic. 70 episodes is a titanic endeavour, even for a well balanced and professional team of writers and voice actors. For a guy like him, who drinks himself into oblivion and deals with problems like the average troon on Twitter, the task is simply impossible. The show will slowly decay, getting more and more preachy and cartoony until its complete demise. It will probably get a revival years later out of nostalgia but won't last longer than one season or a full length direct-to-BR movie.
 
Suck the Cock said:
In Seasons 1 and 2, Rick was a barely functional alcoholic who got through life by running from his problems and being smart enough to rationalise away any action he could take. The show was intentionally stupid and didn't bother to focus on serious issues, because the fans were there to see insane comedy and not family drama. Season 1 was so out there they devoted an episode to Roiland blatantly improvising random shows off the top of his head, and it was most fans' favourite episode! However, as has been pointed out somewhere else in this thread, I can't remember where, Harmon's a control freak who needs each plot to be rigidly structured. Season 2's Interdimensional Cable episode wasn't nearly as good as Season 1's, so for Season 3 they replace it with a clearly scripted clip show.

Season 1 opened with Rick, drunk off his ass, struggling to even explain that he wanted to take Morty to the car. This was supposed to set the tone for the entire series. Now granted, Rick didn't stutter through every single line of dialogue, but the link to the show's improvisational roots was always there, until Season 3. Can you think of a moment in Season 3 where anyone was clearly floundering for what they wanted to say, or switched to a different word mid-sentence? There might be one, but I can't think of it. No, instead we got Rick talking to a therapist about how he's too smart to go to therapy and then looking all grumpy about it. Harmon probably thought that was really relatable.
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The other problem is that the series became too grounded and less dark, ironically. My personal favorite episode of the series is Rick Potion #9, because you're expecting to see how Rick and Morty fix the mess, but they don't. They cut their losses, abandon their universe, and replace the Rick and Morty of the new one. The ending where Morty is burying himself and realizing how insignificant he actually is remains the most effective and darkly hilarious moment in the whole series because of how insanely fucked up his situation is.

Season 2 had its moments but nowhere near the level of season 1. And there was never that episode like in season 1, at least not in my opinion. Not to mention, Rick became some sort of magical deity, able to predict and outsmart everyone when just the previous season he accidentally destroyed his own universe due to his own laziness and incompetence.

It's like as the show went on, it became less deranged and fucked up, which was why I watched it in the first place. You can sort of tell what kind of influence Harmon has on seasons 2 and 3 since they're missing Roiland's trademark insanity. The first season was more emblematic of Roiland's style of humor, but after season 1 that humor isn't as prevalent. And that's primarily why I stopped halfway through season 2.

There's no way Harmon will be able to fill out 70 episodes, given the way the last season went.
 
I've been watching Rick and Morty since Season 1 starting airing. I thought it was a good, fun show that I hoped enjoyed a good amount of mainstream success to help spread the viability of adult animation outside of Seth MacFarlene cartoons, South Park, and the Simpsons. While I'm still a fan of the show, the utter shit-show the fandom is and the overwhelmingly negative shift in public perception has left me with an unpleasant pit in my stomach. I have been watching in dread since the latter half of season 2 as the growing storm of pseudo-intellectual, r/iamverysmart fans have collided with an equally spergy storm of "anti-fans", forming a super-tornado of autism.

Season 3 reflected a flip in the focal focus from zany scientist antics punctuated by moments of character drama to moments of character drama punctuated by zany scientist antics. I don't really prefer either style to one another, but I think the best balance was struck in Season 1. To me, Season 3 was an improvement overall from Season 2, simply because quality was more consistent. Season 3 didn't hit the highs of Season 2, but avoided the terrible lows that were Interdimensional Cable 2 or Get Schwifty. Nonetheless, while I can appreciate character drama, I don't appreciate Harmon making the show basically his indirect way to vent about his marital problems.

Harmon is just the sort of guy that is imminently unlikable. He's the sort of person who acts like an cynical asshole to feel superior to others, which rather fittingly, has transferred to the reputation of his fans, whom he vocally disdains. The irony of the situation is that he is exactly like those fans that he hates. Dan, I think, is just self-aware enough to realize he's a cunt that's desperate for affirmation and has an intense amount of self-loathing because of it, but doesn't have quite enough to understand how to change his behavior in a constructive way. He instead just applies his holier-than-thou attitude to social justice both for asspats and as a cudgel to beat other people down.
 
vertexwindi said:
Quite honestly, I've been thinking a lot about Dan and his role in making Community ever since this whole downwards spiral of his. It's just so weird to me that a clever and well-written show like Community was made by the same guy who penned terrible boring garbage like R&M season 3.
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I said this once before a few pages back, but I think it bears repeating. I think a lot of why people feel that Harmon has such a radical dip in quality had to do with Harmon being in a similar position to the likes of writers like Joss Whedon who were deified as geniuses who could do no wrong, given a lot of undue credit for the work of others, until they eventually bought into their own hype.

A lot of people seem to forget that TV writing is very much a collaborative effort where several dozen people will pitch ideas for dialogue, scenes, jokes, etc. while the person who is out in charge of the script basically edits all the best ideas together into a cohesive plot. So there's always a very good chance that the best jokes and moments weren't actually written by the name listed in the credits, even though it gets attributed to them. Harmon is no different. A lot of people claim that Community went to hell entirely because of Harmon's firing, but if you've ever looked at the full credits for the show by season, you start to notice that there were actually quite a few other behind the scenes members who left as well. And Harmon's twitter feed gives us plenty of evidence that Harmon is painfully unfunny on his own.

It indicates a pattern that the show 's decline was not so much the result in the firing of exactly one guy who all evidence seems to point to having been extremely toxic on set by the time of said firing, but rather a significant enough shift in the creative team where a lot of the talent that was likely way more responsible for a lot of the things people liked about the series - Harmon was just the only one who made the news for it.
 
As someone who never watched past the first season of Community and has just heard of how bad season 4 supposedly was, I can't help but wonder if people are going to go back to the show in the next few years and give it a fair shake, especially compared to seasons 5 and 6.
 
Slightly related, but one of Dan's tweets a few pages ago made me think of something.

What is it with unfunny, alcoholic "comedians" and assuming that non-drinkers are sanctimonious wet blankets? That there's literally no in-between state, no Booze Bardo, between "liver-wrecking substance abuse" and "literally an old lady at church"?
 
Rick and Morty is an all right show. And I thought the season 2 ending was really great.

Then season 3 came, and I couldnt help but wonder where all the love has gone. It felt like Justin and Dan had to make the show and instead of quirky characters and silly one liners we ended up with...pickle rick and " haha look how much of a loser Jerry is!"

The show just focused to much on characters we dont give a damn like Jerry or Beth. Even summer. The show was always about Rick and Morty.

Besides the first 2 episodes and the episode with evil morty, the rest of the season felt pretty lackluster.

For something that was hyped as the next Futurama or Family Guy, it wasnt really all the great. The animation got better, but thats about it. Everything else got pretty shitty.

I dont really think the show can last for more than 4 seasons. I can see it reach to 5 if Dan doesnt fuck it up for everyone, but thats it.
 
ChevroletBlackboard said:
As someone who never watched past the first season of Community and has just heard of how bad season 4 supposedly was, I can't help but wonder if people are going to go back to the show in the next few years and give it a fair shake, especially compared to seasons 5 and 6.
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People tend to exaggerate how much they like or dislike shows they're a fan of. It's common for people to say their favourite season of a show is the second coming of Jesus and their least favourite is a flaming dumpster fire of quality, no matter how consistent the show actually is. You'll see a lot of it in this thread in regards to Rick and Morty. When you get right down to it, Season 3 is still better than a lot of the crap that gets pushed out every year, but people are mad at it because it's clearly not as good as Season 1. The same is the case for Community.

Season 4 of Community is serviceable. It's better than average, and still has the same Community charm to it, but it's missing a lot of the fun and creativity that drew people into Season 1. The plots are all painfully predictable cliches, rather than the subversive nonsense the show was famous for. The characters waffle between being various vessels for the plot, rather than the means through which the plot is delivered. Not the moment to moment humor that Harmon presumably didn't have anything to do with, but the overarching plot that was indicative of his style.
 
Computery Guy said:
Slightly related, but one of Dan's tweets a few pages ago made me think of something.

What is it with unfunny, alcoholic "comedians" and assuming that non-drinkers are sanctimonious wet blankets? That there's literally no in-between state, no Booze Bardo, between "liver-wrecking substance abuse" and "literally an old lady at church"?
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They're alcoholics. It's a justification for them drinking a keg a night: "Sure, I may drink booze like it's water, but I'm a fun guy! Not like those losers who don't drink like they're trying to make their liver explode with the force of the Trinity Test!"
 
Computery Guy said:
Slightly related, but one of Dan's tweets a few pages ago made me think of something.

What is it with unfunny, alcoholic "comedians" and assuming that non-drinkers are sanctimonious wet blankets? That there's literally no in-between state, no Booze Bardo, between "liver-wrecking substance abuse" and "literally an old lady at church"?
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The above post is correct, but I'd just like to add that it's a common coping device for anyone with dependence problems. It's a form of denial and passive aggression, it lets them pretend to acknowledge their problems while simultaneously relegating their critics to a position of inferiority.
 
It's just a behavior that really inexplicably chaps my ass, and it only ever seems to be used in earnest by alcoholics, possibly because it's the only real addiction that's "acceptable".

Family Guy had an entire episode that was essentially Seth McFarlane insisting that he Brian could quit any time he wanted and it was "all about moderation". Hell, even South Park did that, but they at least had the good humor to throw some jabs at both sides of the fence and concede that some people could get by just fine without ever touching a drop if the stuff. If a prime-time TV Show tried to do it about smoking or cocaine, it'd never hit the air.

But I'm losing track, this is a thread about Dan Harmon. Is it me, or does he seem to just be genuinely shocked that CN isn't just caving to him over everything? These people are DINOSAURS, Dan, they know damn well that even if you walk, there'll be something just as good to take up the torch one day.
 
Suck the Cock said:
People tend to exaggerate how much they like or dislike shows they're a fan of. It's common for people to say their favourite season of a show is the second coming of Jesus and their least favourite is a flaming dumpster fire of quality, no matter how consistent the show actually is. You'll see a lot of it in this thread in regards to Rick and Morty. When you get right down to it, Season 3 is still better than a lot of the crap that gets pushed out every year, but people are mad at it because it's clearly not as good as Season 1. The same is the case for Community.

Season 4 of Community is serviceable. It's better than average, and still has the same Community charm to it, but it's missing a lot of the fun and creativity that drew people into Season 1. The plots are all painfully predictable cliches, rather than the subversive nonsense the show was famous for. The characters waffle between being various vessels for the plot, rather than the means through which the plot is delivered. Not the moment to moment humor that Harmon presumably didn't have anything to do with, but the overarching plot that was indicative of his style.
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Plus it had the "Changnesia" story arc, which will go down as one of the worst things I have ever seen on television.
 
Fandom Trash said:
Rick and Morty is an all right show. And I thought the season 2 ending was really great.

Then season 3 came, and I couldnt help but wonder where all the love has gone. It felt like Justin and Dan had to make the show and instead of quirky characters and silly one liners we ended up with...pickle rick and " haha look how much of a loser Jerry is!"

The show just focused to much on characters we dont give a damn like Jerry or Beth. Even summer. The show was always about Rick and Morty.

Besides the first 2 episodes and the episode with evil morty, the rest of the season felt pretty lackluster.

For something that was hyped as the next Futurama or Family Guy, it wasnt really all the great. The animation got better, but thats about it. Everything else got pretty shitty.

I dont really think the show can last for more than 4 seasons. I can see it reach to 5 if Dan doesnt fuck it up for everyone, but thats it.
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The show's dying out because of the focus on being subversive and being ahead of the fans and theory-crafters. Jee that sound familiar, don't it? (No, I'm not talking about Star Wars, what gave you that impression?)

Season 3 had a strong first episode that did a double-subversion that should have been enough for the entire season. It genuinely felt like they were going to skip past the stuff we wanted to see and it was a very "Rick and Morty" thing that they would do. But then we actually got what we wanted and it was pretty promising.

Then Jerry and Beth got divorced and holy shit did that bit get old fast, especially considering how laughably uncommitted they were to it.

I have no doubts that this is mostly up to Dan Harmon. Roiland looks like an actor in all of this, and only an actor. Very little of the stuff that goes on in the show really feels like it's up to him, apparently he doesn't even improvise as Rick anymore which was one of the main hooks to his character in season 1. Plus Harmon is a pretentious enough hack that he'd think the philosophical bullshit season 3 kept espousing was something that had never been shown before on television and that he was being a rebel by writing it. Similarly, the sudden lauding of Beth's intelligence was something only a fucking cuck would come up with because throughout the rest of the show before season 3, she was shown to be just barely smarter than Jerry. Nothing more.

You could almost feel the fucking orgasm Harmon must've had during the therapist's monologue towards Rick in the Pickle Rick episode, that's how up his own ass he is.
 
X-Shaped Weeaboo said:
The show's dying out because of the focus on being subversive and being ahead of the fans and theory-crafters. Jee that sound familiar, don't it? (No, I'm not talking about Star Wars, what gave you that impression?)

Season 3 had a strong first episode that did a double-subversion that should have been enough for the entire season. It genuinely felt like they were going to skip past the stuff we wanted to see and it was a very "Rick and Morty" thing that they would do. But then we actually got what we wanted and it was pretty promising.

Then Jerry and Beth got divorced and holy shit did that bit get old fast, especially considering how laughably uncommitted they were to it.

I have no doubts that this is mostly up to Dan Harmon. Roiland looks like an actor in all of this, and only an actor. Very little of the stuff that goes on in the show really feels like it's up to him, apparently he doesn't even improvise as Rick anymore which was one of the main hooks to his character in season 1. Plus Harmon is a pretentious enough hack that he'd think the philosophical bullshit season 3 kept espousing was something that had never been shown before on television and that he was being a rebel by writing it. Similarly, the sudden lauding of Beth's intelligence was something only a fucking cuck would come up with because throughout the rest of the show before season 3, she was shown to be just barely smarter than Jerry. Nothing more.

You could almost feel the fucking orgasm Harmon must've had during the therapist's monologue towards Rick in the Pickle Rick episode, that's how up his own ass he is.
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Honestly, the utter verbal thrashing Susan Sarandon delivered was one of the only tolerable parts of the season, but when you remember Dan's almost religious fervor for emotionally whipping himself it loses some of its bite.

The thing about thorough vivisections of negative traits like that is if you want them to be satisfying, the character on the receiving end either needs to have an epiphany, or at least have something come out of it beyond a superficial "well you've got my number".

Rick was APPARENTLY supposed to have been cut to the core by someone actually understanding his "impossible mind", but the episode didn't even end before you could tell it'd never be relevant again.

And for the love of all that is holy, do not get me started on the events leading up to and after the divorce. I will go to my grave insisting Jerry is the most sympathetic character on the show when he's not inexplicably being out of character to give Rick ammunition.
 
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