💼 Careercow Dan Harmon - Creator of Community, co-creator of Rick and Morty, and barely functional alcoholic

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Computery Guy said:
Honestly, the utter verbal thrashing Susan Sarandon delivered was one of the only tolerable parts of the season, but when you remember Dan's almost religious fervor for emotionally whipping himself it loses some of its bite.

The thing about thorough vivisections of negative traits like that is if you want them to be satisfying, the character on the receiving end either needs to have an epiphany, or at least have something come out of it beyond a superficial "well you've got my number".

Rick was APPARENTLY supposed to have been cut to the core by someone actually understanding his "impossible mind", but the episode didn't even end before you could tell it'd never be relevant again.

And for the love of all that is holy, do not get me started on the events leading up to and after the divorce. I will go to my grave insisting Jerry is the most sympathetic 1 on the show when he's not inexplicably being out of character to give Rick ammunition.
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And dont forget their stupid speech about how being smart gives you free pass to be a psychopath because u are better than the goyim
 
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When that actress went out and said she was being creeped on by Dan I found it funny because Dan looks suspiciously like Harvey Weinstein to me
 
Computery Guy said:
I will go to my grave insisting Jerry is the most sympathetic character on the show when he's not inexplicably being out of character to give Rick ammunition.
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Jerry is literally the straight man who is there to remind us how an actual human would react to all this crazy interdimensional shit. You, an actual human, wouldn't be handling shit like captain operator. Thus keeping the Dan/Rick ego trip in the realm of character and not self insert.

But by just bullying Jerry nonstop they have ripped the curtain of Oz to reveal Dan in the shower telling himself how smart he is and rocking.
 
GhostButt said:
Jerry is literally the straight man who is there to remind us how an actual human would react to all this crazy interdimensional shit. You, an actual human, wouldn't be handling shit like captain operator. Thus keeping the Dan/Rick ego trip in the realm of character and not self insert.

But by just bullying Jerry nonstop they have ripped the curtain of Oz to reveal Dan in the shower telling himself how smart he is and rocking.
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The worst part is that Jerry's essentially at the social equivalent of Morton's Fork whenever he appears onscreen. If he doesn't show some backbone, everyone criticizes him for... I dunno, pretending being the family whipping boy gets to him?

But if he DOES try to stand up for himself, it's almost guaranteed that someone will jump at the chance to tear his confidence to pieces. He's pretty much evolved into an object of contempt as of arguably late Season 1. He's not really a straight man anymore, I don't think, more some strawman of the "pathetic normies" who don't get Dan's TORTURED GENIUS
 
GhostButt said:
Jerry is literally the straight man who is there to remind us how an actual human would react to all this crazy interdimensional shit. You, an actual human, wouldn't be handling shit like captain operator. Thus keeping the Dan/Rick ego trip in the realm of character and not self insert.

But by just bullying Jerry nonstop they have ripped the curtain of Oz to reveal Dan in the shower telling himself how smart he is and rocking.
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Remember when Jerry was the only person who wasn't okay with his parents' bizarre cuckoldry relationship with Jacob? Or when he was the only family member who wasn't okay with Rick constantly taking Morty out on adventures because it was causing him to fail school? He felt a lot more relatable in the first season because he was pretty much the only normal person.

Jerry had his moments of being a pathetic loser in season 1, but they were never in your face. One of the best episodes of season 1 was the simulation episode where Jerry didn't realize he was in a simulation, and the best day of his life wasn't real. Even then, it wasn't really at his expense, and the ending was treated as somewhat tragic when he realizes none of it was real.

But as the series went on, what started as a back and forth between Rick and Jerry became disproportionately shifted towards Rick. One of the worst moments for me is when Jerry points out that Rick took his family away, but then Rick retorts that Jerry knocked up Beth and "ruined her future" or some shit (ignoring the episode where it reveals their lives suck without each other). And Jerry weakly submits to the argument, despite him having more of a spine in the first season.

Jerry was the only character who stood up to Rick, and that's what made him interesting in the first season. But then they started treating that as a bad thing, roughly around the time Rick became an obvious self-insert for Harmon.
 
Yeah the "Actually Beth had incredible potential all along!" shit came out of nowhere, considering in the first season she had to flip through hundreds of different realities in that headset before she was competent enough to be "a human surgeon", and she still ended up a crazy bird lady.

I hope they stick with the storyline into the next season, and it turns out all her "potential" was just her being a huge dickhead like Rick with none of the intelligence.
 
I can't wait for [AS] to kick Harmon off the show and replace him with Doc Hammer and Jackson Publick.
 
Baldur's Gait said:
Remember when Jerry was the only person who wasn't okay with his parents' bizarre cuckoldry relationship with Jacob? Or when he was the only family member who wasn't okay with Rick constantly taking Morty out on adventures because it was causing him to fail school? He felt a lot more relatable in the first season because he was pretty much the only normal person.

Jerry had his moments of being a pathetic loser in season 1, but they were never in your face. One of the best episodes of season 1 was the simulation episode where Jerry didn't realize he was in a simulation, and the best day of his life wasn't real. Even then, it wasn't really at his expense, and the ending was treated as somewhat tragic when he realizes none of it was real.

But as the series went on, what started as a back and forth between Rick and Jerry became disproportionately shifted towards Rick. One of the worst moments for me is when Jerry points out that Rick took his family away, but then Rick retorts that Jerry knocked up Beth and "ruined her future" or some shit (ignoring the episode where it reveals their lives suck without each other). And Jerry weakly submits to the argument, despite him having more of a spine in the first season.

Jerry was the only character who stood up to Rick, and that's what made him interesting in the first season. But then they started treating that as a bad thing, roughly around the time Rick became an obvious self-insert for Harmon.
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Jerry being a butt monkey could get grating, I agree, but it actually could have been made into something. What really stuck out as odd to me in season 3 is how all the characters in the show were slowly coming to terms with their lot in life, their flaws, and actually finding more healthy ways of coping with said flaws.

Morty, as a result of the previous seasons, is done being "a Morty" and is very obviously smarter, sharper, and more confident as a result. He sees through Rick's bullshit facades enough to know how to call him out on it and be ahead of him occasionally, but he's still innocent enough to have a good moral code whilst still be capable of being deceived by Rick.

Summer inherited all of Rick's ego and zest for adventure, but she had none of the stomach or wit for it. She mellows out and becomes somewhat coy about the people around her, but in this regard, she's adapted to Rick's shenanigans the best in the family and is openly accepting of the weird which is in contrast to how bitchy and afraid she was any time she got a taste of what Morty used to have to put up with.

Jerry began to realize that he didn't have to compete with Rick to be a good person. His solo episode with Rick, while initially demeaning of Jerry, ends with him coming to the realization that he should man up and stop fighting to be against Rick and more to be someone that isn't Rick. (Which is funny considering alternate realities of Jerry tend to be super far better off than other characters in the show.)

Beth got knocked down a peg and realized that her family is exactly what she deserves, and that she shouldn't idolize an almost entire stranger in Rick.

See they had all this unintentional growth thanks to Rick being around, you expect that the show is going to capitalize on this and make the ending of the 3rd season about all these characters, in their own roundabout way, becoming smarter than Rick in that they found healthier ways to deal with their lives than Rick who continues to dilute his pain and run away from just about every confrontation.


INSTEAD we got a finale focused on the President, a half-assed conclusion to the divorce sub-plot, Rick continues to be unstoppably right, and the ending is just a way to return things to the status-quo, something the characters even directly fucking say to the audience's face.


Like, ok, you got me Harmon. I didn't expect any of that!

I also didn't expect you to be such a fucking hack that you would squander all this potential you had in your show but I'm not going to run to the fucking academy and demand medals for that little subversion.
 
Someone in a Tree said:
How much of that order will Harmon fill before pulling a Dave Chappelle?
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at least chapelle admitted he could not take the stress of running a tv show anymore when he was interviewed on Oprah.
I bet Harmon would accuse adult swim of terrible working conditions and executive meddling when he finally snaps and leaves R&M.
I hope [as] get's someone more stable to handle it with roiland.
EDIT: Or this could devolve into a "morel orel" situation where [as] cancel's the show after harmon going insane and makes the show "cross a line". (aka, he makes r&m something even darker then Orel season 3 by going even more personal.)
 
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They don't need Dan Harmon anymore. However boundless the premise wants you to think it is, Rick & Morty is already in the cookie cutter, diminishing returns phase The Simpsons has been in for 20 years. It can't step outside of its safe zone because it's owned by its fans.
 
Tubular Monkey said:
They don't need Dan Harmon anymore. However boundless the premise wants you to think it is, Rick & Morty is already in the cookie cutter, diminishing returns phase The Simpsons has been in for 20 years. It can't step outside of its safe zone because it's owned by its fans.
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It's a bit of a catch 22 at this point. Dan Harmon is becoming something of a liability, him staying will result in the show devolving like we seen with Season 3 with boneheaded decisions like hiring diversity hires and Dan Harmon continuing to make Rick his self insert Marty Stu more insufferable due to how blatant it gets, but if he leaves, whoever is there to pick up the pieces will almost certainly fuck up because it's almost impossible to replicate something made by someone else once, let alone for 70 episodes (Look at how noticeable the drop in quality The Simpsons got when they had to hire a bunch of new writers around season) . Either way, I think the show is going to collapse in on itself and the only people who will still watch it for years to come are the "I'M PICKLE RICK WUBALUBADUBDUB" fans.
 
Tard said:
Jesus Christ, never read about this. How are Justin and Dan not MeToo'd yet and then promptly fired?
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Dan was Me Too'd, but he prostrated himself and apologized. Apparently this was enough for the accuser (one of the Community writers IIRC) so he was let off with a slap on the wrist.
 
Fandom Trash said:
Rick and Morty is an all right show. And I thought the season 2 ending was really great.

Then season 3 came, and I couldnt help but wonder where all the love has gone. It felt like Justin and Dan had to make the show and instead of quirky characters and silly one liners we ended up with...pickle rick and " haha look how much of a loser Jerry is!"

The show just focused to much on characters we dont give a damn like Jerry or Beth. Even summer. The show was always about Rick and Morty.

Besides the first 2 episodes and the episode with evil morty, the rest of the season felt pretty lackluster.

For something that was hyped as the next Futurama or Family Guy, it wasnt really all the great. The animation got better, but thats about it. Everything else got pretty shitty.

I dont really think the show can last for more than 4 seasons. I can see it reach to 5 if Dan doesnt fuck it up for everyone, but thats it.
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I forget if I said it in this thread, but the show went downhill for me once I realized everything I liked about R&M was done better, more intelligently, and with much better characters in Futurama. It's 3 seasons in and I truly don't give a shit about any of these people and they don't seem to have grown at all. In fact, like Rick in Walking Dead, they somehow became more 2-dimensional. To be fair I didn't finish season 3 - I saw half - but unless someone can really vouch for it I think the consensus is clear.

There's some basic rules in good screenwriting that can be applicable to cartoons, especially ones that want to take themselves very seriously at times like R&M does. This is a big problem in Community, as well. It's best summarized in "show, don't tell." Bad, old TV believed that story has to be chugged along through dialogue. The thing about Dan and a lot of pseudo-intelligent hacks is they want to do this but they believe if they do it sarcastically and wink at the audience like "yeah isn't it cheesy how we set this up?" it makes it good. I'm a guy who liked a lot of Community, but it was a show - like all shitty network shows - that had its characters just tell you what was going on but did it sarcastically and ironically so everyone thought it was smarter and better. To the point where they and a fucking entire character whose "thing" was ironically walking himself and the audience through everything. They attempted to give him some flaws but that was his goal.

Here's the problem: it's not fucking subversive if it is the only thing you are capable of doing.

The reason we know this? Because it permeates every fiber of his being. This is what he does in all of his confession-rants. "Yes, I'm gross, I'm mean, I'm a white man, I'm-I'm-I'm-I'm-I'm *siiiiiigh* I'm the guy you throw out of the gondola, I'm the CHUD in the fireplace, I'm (15 seconds of obscure non-sequitur comparisons leveraging pop culture bullshit)."

Maybe I am taking something out on him here but I've been doing a lot of writing lately, and a lot of reading, and a lot of research into the DNA of storytelling. One thing struck me and it wasn't related to stories necessarily but it applies, and it was originally about architecture: we have no appreciation of beauty anymore. Everything is a reaction to a reaction to a reaction. The art world is familiar with this. There is, in fact, a thing called beauty. We know it when we see it, we've seen it executed in everything from animation to architecture to music and every form of human expression. Writing especially. Legendary writers did this, great ones come close, good ones at least attempt. There's a deep human truth and attempt to create something perfect, some expression of widely applicable humanity through forms. Or at least the drive to. Most shows don't even attempt this, I know. So let's put his shit on the same level as Squidbillies.

Dan seems to me to be a man who creates but doesn't seem to really care about beauty. It's hard to explain but everything just seems like his "take" on something popular, some comment on a trend, some character that hollowly represents something else (Pierce from Community, most of the characters actually)... Like if you asked him, what would you want to be remembered for? Is it R&M? Really? Is it Monster House? Maybe it's Channel 101, but I doubt it. The slow-motion meltdown that is Harmontown? What are you trying to fucking do here on Earth, for all the lectures and talking down to people and trying to belittle your fans and coaching other human beings on how to live?

I'm going to give my answer: he learned all he needed to so he could make sarcastic derivative TV so he could have just enough credit to talk down to people and be a cunt. He did this all the time on the Channel 101 forums, he just wants just enough power to shit on people but never wants to be responsible for his actions. He always needs a boss to sneer at.

Most autistic post in this thread? You Decide!
 
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Rekkington said:
everything I liked about R&M was done better, more intelligently, and with much better characters in Futurama.
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Most notably Fry and Morty's delta brainwave:

http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/The_Day_the_Earth_Stood_Stupid

http://rickandmorty.wikia.com/wiki/Close_Rick-Counters_of_the_Rick_Kind

Jesus fuck even the titles, puns on classic sci-fi, reflect the lazyness inherent to R&M's writing:
Futurama offers a cogent blend of the two themes of the episode (alien invaders and Fry's dumbwaves)
R&M offers nothing but the word Rick vomited all over Close Encounters of the Third Kind, a film that shares nothing with the plot or theme of the episode.
 
Rekkington said:
I forget if I said it in this thread, but the show went downhill for me once I realized everything I liked about R&M was done better, more intelligently, and with much better characters in Futurama. It's 3 seasons in and I truly don't give a shit about any of these people and they don't seem to have grown at all. In fact, like Rick in Walking Dead, they somehow became more 2-dimensional. To be fair I didn't finish season 3 - I saw half - but unless someone can really vouch for it I think the consensus is clear.
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GhostButt said:
Most notably Fry and Morty's delta brainwave:

http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/The_Day_the_Earth_Stood_Stupid

http://rickandmorty.wikia.com/wiki/Close_Rick-Counters_of_the_Rick_Kind

Jesus fuck even the titles, puns on classic sci-fi, reflect the lazyness inherent to R&M's writing:
Futurama offers a cogent blend of the two themes of the episode (alien invaders and Fry's dumbwaves)
R&M offers nothing but the word Rick vomited all over Close Encounters of the Third Kind, a film that shares nothing with the plot or theme of the episode.
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Not just futurama, I've seen R&M(intentionally or not) take ideas from Danganronpas, SOMA, black mirror, the twilight zone, Zero escape, the thing, The Haruhi Suzumiya franchise, Stiens;Gate, The matrix, metal gear, Total recall, The outer limits, ETC... essentially sci-fi/meta stuff that premiered, years/decades Before R&M. Hell, i definitely think Harmon stole some shit from community especially in the meta character who knows everything/is the self insert from the author.) i think the reason fans liked it so much back then is because of wanting to have futurama fix back then.
Hell the character of mr. meeseek's is just a rip off of scud, the disposable assassin, which i think is because justin roiland is Friends with the creator of that.
 
m62259 said:
Not just futurama, I've seen R&M(intentionally or not) take ideas from Danganronpas, SOMA, black mirror, the twilight zone, Zero escape, the thing, The Haruhi Suzumiya franchise, Stiens;Gate, The matrix, metal gear, Total recall, The outer limits, ETC... essentially sci-fi/meta stuff that premiered, years/decades Before R&M. Hell, i definitely think Harmon stole some shit from community especially in the meta character who knows everything/is the self insert from the author.) i think the reason fans liked it so much back then is because of wanting to have futurama fix back then.
Hell the character of mr. meeseek's is just a rip off of scud, the disposable assassin, which i think is because justin roiland is Friends with the creator of that.
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Steal? You mean reference.

...*sigh*

Not really unusual for a western cartoon to steal from anime.
 
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