Careercow Dan Harmon - Creator of Community, co-creator of Rick and Morty, and barely functional alcoholic

ChevroletBlackboard said:
I remember when the trailer dropped a few people heard rumours that a lot of its crew were people Harmon had scared off Rick and Morty or driven away due to his attitude.

Given that Dan didn't even know Justin was pitching other shows, it suggests that this is Justin beginning to sever his ties with Harmon.
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Yeah I remember that drama and I think Dan himself was the one who leaked it. After awhile I assume you'd want to drop all the pretentious meta bullshit and just tell a show about weird aliens. Less 30 Rock and more 3rd Rock From the Sun.
 
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Pixy Misa said:
Ok seems like I need to explain myself.

Before everything I want to say I'm not a fan of Harmon. I'm not white-knighting him. I was just disappointed that something I liked came from someone so gross. Like finding your favorite YouTuber has a lolcow thread...

First I'm not saying Harmon invented the Hero's Journey. Nor that all stories should be Hero's journeys. Though, I would say that most great stories are just a variation of it, and most stories overall are... But I digress.

I only said that Harmon's distillation of it for story outlines is actually pretty good and I use it often for outlines with good results.

Second, I won't defend him, but myself by saying I'm not copying his style. His version is actually very broad and not a series of emotional moments to copy like other methods out there. Nor does it have all the steps Campbell's has (because that isn't for outlines, But I digress).

In a nutshell, his take on the Hero's journey is a simple "things are some way and x character tries to change it". I don't think that's formulaic at all given it has a huge room for interpretation there. In fact the very reason I like it it's because it is so broad and not a series of very specific moments that have to happen so you can make a carbon copy of Star Wars.

Like this one for example (taken from change the cat):



View attachment 1158750

Now that is a mess worthy of a How to draw manga book.

Like others have said, Hartman didn't invent this. He just made it easy for outlines. That's what I'm crediting him with. If you want to do a Hero's journey his method is not bad at all.

What I'm using for outlines is, again, the super broad concept that a heroe's journey is about protagonists that tries to change things. Not the super-specific steps like "a mentor has to show, and supernatural aid comes", "there should be a tempress" etc, etc. I agree the later does make stories feel the same.

Look I agree this guy is an asshole, but I do suspect this one of the few reasons actual professionals bother with him, instead of just being a complete no-name failure like Dobson.
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I read Snyder's Save The Cat once, it was real eye opening to why so many modern movies are bad because they stopped following the classic storytelling conventions.

Even ignoring something as basic as setting up who a character is and why we should care.
 
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Pixy Misa said:
Ok seems like I need to explain myself.

Before everything I want to say I'm not a fan of Harmon. I'm not white-knighting him. I was just disappointed that something I liked came from someone so gross. Like finding your favorite YouTuber has a lolcow thread...

First I'm not saying Harmon invented the Hero's Journey. Nor that all stories should be Hero's journeys. Though, I would say that most great stories are just a variation of it, and most stories overall are... But I digress.

I only said that Harmon's distillation of it for story outlines is actually pretty good and I use it often for outlines with good results.

Second, I won't defend him, but myself by saying I'm not copying his style. His version is actually very broad and not a series of emotional moments to copy like other methods out there. Nor does it have all the steps Campbell's has (because that isn't for outlines, But I digress).

In a nutshell, his take on the Hero's journey is a simple "things are some way and x character tries to change it". I don't think that's formulaic at all given it has a huge room for interpretation there. In fact the very reason I like it it's because it is so broad and not a series of very specific moments that have to happen so you can make a carbon copy of Star Wars.

Like this one for example (taken from change the cat):



View attachment 1158750

Now that is a mess worthy of a How to draw manga book.

Like others have said, Hartman didn't invent this. He just made it easy for outlines. That's what I'm crediting him with. If you want to do a Hero's journey his method is not bad at all.

What I'm using for outlines is, again, the super broad concept that a heroe's journey is about protagonists that tries to change things. Not the super-specific steps like "a mentor has to show, and supernatural aid comes", "there should be a tempress" etc, etc. I agree the later does make stories feel the same.

Look I agree this guy is an asshole, but I do suspect this one of the few reasons actual professionals bother with him, instead of just being a complete no-name failure like Dobson.
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Your feelings are completely justified; check this out:

And funny enough, I feel the same way about this channel as you do about Harmon. Overall embarrassing and not as smart as he thinks he is, but a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then too. There are good things on occasion.

And man, isn't it the worst when you genuinely like something from someone you have zero respect for? And then if you even try to tell people your thoughts, it's automatically assumed you're white knighting.
Well, I get what you mean, in any case.

How cool is it to find out you're into writing too! I'm quite curious how you've implemented this into your own stuff! In due time, hopefully!
 
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Guts Gets Some said:
Your feelings are completely justified; check this out:

And funny enough, I feel the same way about this channel as you do about Harmon. Overall embarrassing and not as smart as he thinks he is, but a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then too. There are good things on occasion.

And man, isn't it the worst when you genuinely like something from someone you have zero respect for? And then if you even try to tell people your thoughts, it's automatically assumed you're white knighting.
Well, I get what you mean, in any case.

How cool is it to find out you're into writing too! I'm quite curious how you've implemented this into your own stuff! In due time, hopefully!
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So much of writing advice is to help people who don't want to write, which should say something about the absolute state of the craft.
For that reason Harmon's "story cycle" is just a way to get out of writer's block. Anyone with any knowlege of storytelling knows it's not the ultimate way to craft the best story but rather just to block it in for a medium that is pretty restrictive. This is why writing scripts are actually easier than writing novels, all the requirements and formatting rules and creative boundaries mean you can knock something out way easier since it's way more utilitarian.

So his method is great for people like him, who just want to be a ham-and-egger creative working in an industry that should be nuked from orbit anyway. But it's also a good place to start if you're not sure if your story is interesting enough to keep someone's attention. I think it's very telling that the method's greatest champions are people like him who love to make snarky remarks and meta references on the system itself in the show. Oh look Morty is crossing the threshold, better have Rick say how lame and predictable crossing the threshold is. Fucking spare me.
 
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Rekkington said:
So much of writing advice is to help people who don't want to write, which should say something about the absolute state of the craft.
For that reason Harmon's "story cycle" is just a way to get out of writer's block. Anyone with any knowlege of storytelling knows it's not the ultimate way to craft the best story but rather just to block it in for a medium that is pretty restrictive. This is why writing scripts are actually easier than writing novels, all the requirements and formatting rules and creative boundaries mean you can knock something out way easier since it's way more utilitarian.

So his method is great for people like him, who just want to be a ham-and-egger creative working in an industry that should be nuked from orbit anyway. But it's also a good place to start if you're not sure if your story is interesting enough to keep someone's attention. I think it's very telling that the method's greatest champions are people like him who love to make snarky remarks and meta references on the system itself in the show. Oh look Morty is crossing the threshold, better have Rick say how lame and predictable crossing the threshold is. Fucking spare me.
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Dan Harmon's style is literally just a cope.
 
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Guts Gets Some said:
Your feelings are completely justified; check this out:

And funny enough, I feel the same way about this channel as you do about Harmon. Overall embarrassing and not as smart as he thinks he is, but a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then too. There are good things on occasion.

And man, isn't it the worst when you genuinely like something from someone you have zero respect for? And then if you even try to tell people your thoughts, it's automatically assumed you're white knighting.
Well, I get what you mean, in any case.

How cool is it to find out you're into writing too! I'm quite curious how you've implemented this into your own stuff! In due time, hopefully!
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>“The arc story bends towards Harmon’s character”
>On a show literally named HarmonQuest

You don’t say?

Even as that video sings Harmon’s praises for his supposed writing talent, it just left with the impression that the reason Harmon seems so much more “elevated” compared to his peers is because he deliberately surrounds himself with people who will defer to his “expertise” and won’t try to take the spotlight away from him.
 
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One Man Bland said:
it just left with the impression that the reason Harmon seems so much more “elevated” compared to his peers is because he deliberately surrounds himself with people who will defer to his “expertise” and won’t try to take the spotlight away from him.
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Someone who's as much of a mess as Dan is shouldn't be so good at manipulating people.
 
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One Man Bland said:
>“The arc story bends towards Harmon’s character”
>On a show literally named HarmonQuest

You don’t say?

Even as that video sings Harmon’s praises for his supposed writing talent, it just left with the impression that the reason Harmon seems so much more “elevated” compared to his peers is because he deliberately surrounds himself with people who will defer to his “expertise” and won’t try to take the spotlight away from him.
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I've never listened to any other Harmonquest stuff cause it sounds lame as hell, but in regards to the story cycle thing it strikes me that if you're always referring to this one beginner's template in everything it's the equivalent of a seasoned carpenter always pulling up YouTube instructional videos on how to do shit. If you're saying out loud "I guess this is where we need to atone with the father!" you're just looking for an engine to plug your dumb memes and insecurities into.
Also if you listen to the first 100 episodes of Harmontown when the D&D thing starts, he's very clearly drunk out of his mind and not taking it seriously. Dan falling off his stool shirtless while everyone else does the heavy lifting may be a pretty good metaphor for his managerial style.
 
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Digger10 said:
Someone who's as much of a mess as Dan is shouldn't be so good at manipulating people.
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I beg to differ, if you manipulate people into doing what you want, you can get away with being a mess. Otherwise, you'd have to stand on your own two feet. It's probably his most developed skill, even beyond his writing ability.
 
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"Morty" is trending in the US today, along with Dan Harmon because some old skit resurfaced again.
Screenshot_2020-08-13 Explore Twitter.png

EDIT: better description here
Screenshot_2020-08-13 Home Twitter.png
 
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Surprised this thread has gone this long without mention Harmon’s awful raps and music. Sounds like the ramblings of a homeless man set to a guitar:


Also lol apparently Harmon has been using the work from home situation to be even lazier as he made a video loop to skip out on writing meetings:
 
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One Man Bland said:
Surprised this thread has gone this long without mention Harmon’s awful raps and music. Sounds like the ramblings of a homeless man set to a guitar:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDsGtWAjVuB/?igshid=vwb27dtf0l3f
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD4mz0fDePd/?igshid=1dl4mhphds5xb
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD27QGfDTsj/?igshid=untxldy00hsc
https://www.instagram.com/p/CDmkTBnDf3D/?igshid=1jmts34kb3fe2
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD0Q2aljvC9/?igshid=154tj2nc4adau
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>implying they aren't exactly that
At least it isn't SoundCloud mumble rap.

To be fair, they kind of sound like the stuff George "Joji" Miller used to put out as Filthy Frank. Someone more talented could make them work.
 
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Chan the Wizard said:
I think this is a different one? Been a while since I’ve watched it. Was he psychiatrist named Daryl that rapes a patients baby in the old one?

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It’s probably the old one since this looks like the “outrage” is coming from QAnon Boomers.
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Yeah, it was a Dexter 'parody'.
 
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