Darktide

[Asian tech support]

I'm cautiously optimistic. Just having the Ogryn able to knock aside wimpy enemies while dodging could be a pretty big boost to maneuverability, helping to dodge nets etc, in tight situations.

Slayer in VT2 a the same ability (not as an innate) and it wasn't that good. I'm going to assume it functions identically.

 

[Blazing Piety]

I am very skeptical that these changes are going to improve Ogryn in any substantial way.
Reading through the changes, there's a couple of nice things like the addition of Outta My Way! and Bull Rush now counting as dodging, though I'm not sure how impactful Outta My Way! is going to be on higher difficulties. You also have the changes to rocks which I am very happy about.
But as I read though the changes, most of them just don't seem substantial enough to make playing Ogryn worth it. The nerfs to The Best Defense and Smash 'Em! are pointless, just as they were with the last update, so I don't know why they are nerfing the talents yet again. From what I can tell and what people who play more Ogryn than I have told me, Gunlugger is getting eviscerated despite that build only really being useful for the boss damage gimmick. Feel No Pain's change is probably going to end up not mattering on high difficulties, and would still not be worth running compared to Heavy Hitter. And Heavy Hitter's changes just seem to reinforce that there is never any reason why you would take BLO or FNP over it.
A friend made a comment along the lines that the Ogryn changes are great for all the players out there who are stuck in malice, and I really do think this is the case. It reminds me a lot of the problem Deep Rock had in the past, where GSG would make balance changes that balanced the game around Hazard 3 because that was the difficulty they played. That was great for all the players who only played Haz 3, but for anyone who played Haz 5 and regularly did the Elite Deep Dives, these changes were inconsequential to downright detrimental, which I believe is what caused GSG to eventually implement the extended difficulty modifiers for Haz 5 into the base game. From what I've been told, most, if not all, of the testers Fatshark employs specifically play on malice when testing changes, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a similar situation. I've also heard rumors that Hank, author of the Ogrynomicon, had a hand in the changes to Ogryn, and if so that would perfectly explain why most of these changes are ultimately mediocre (just like his guide lol owned)
Ultimately I don't think these changes will have the impact Fatshark is hoping for - the meta will still be running a pickaxe, using Heavy Hitter, using Bull Rush, your choice of either rocks or the big grenade, and the Kickback, and you will still need to put in more effort to achieve what the other classes can do with half the effort. I will be very surprised if these changes end up playing out better than I expect.
As for Havoc, I am fully expecting one of the four "new" mutators mentioned is just going to be the brute conscripts shit they were running a while back. Havoc already just kinda sucks ass to play anyways unless you have a premade team and/or are going for the penances, so not much hope here.
The Mortis Trials thing that's being added doesn't have any relevance to me. If I wanted to play a roguelike/roguelite/whatever the fuck, I'd go play Isaac or Risk of Rain, but that's just me.

 

[Asian tech support]

It reminds me a lot of the problem Deep Rock had in the past, where GSG would make balance changes that balanced the game around Hazard 3 because that was the difficulty they played. That was great for all the players who only played Haz 3, but for anyone who played Haz 5 and regularly did the Elite Deep Dives, these changes were inconsequential to downright detrimental, which I believe is what caused GSG to eventually implement the extended difficulty modifiers for Haz 5 into the base game. From what I've been told, most, if not all, of the testers Fatshark employs specifically play on malice when testing changes, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a similar situation.

Fatshark's internal testers have all but been confirmed to play on lower difficulties. There once was a time where they would stream somewhat regularly and it became a bit of a meme in certain circles to join up and grief. I've never personally seen them play above Legend on stream. Personally, I've seen people with the dev frame in Cata lobbies but there are some players, who've managed to get their hands on the dev frame so who knows. That's not to say that everyone there is bad at the game but there is either 1) overwhelming pressure to "balance" the game around the median difficulty and skill level (there are out of date metrics floating around suggesting that most Darktide players settle at heresy) or 2) the specific group of internal playtesters and balance team are actually that bad, even if others there are not.

There was an issue in VT2 where strats heavily depend on enemy density and the same is true for Darktide. There's a reason Demolition Team goes from a crap node in normals to a top tier node in high intensity auric and beyond. For veterans, the game actually gets easier, that's just how busted shredders, demo stopckpile, and demo team are.

I've also heard rumors that Hank, author of the Ogrynomicon, had a hand in the changes to Ogryn, and if so that would perfectly explain why most of these changes are ultimately mediocre (just like his guide lol owned)

Not to get all that bogged down in drama but Hank had an hour and a half cope video glazing the rework. If what he said a couple of months ago was true, then yes these are the changes he and the rest of the ogrynomicon faggots were pushing for. At the time, he said that it's not like the playtesters dictate exactly what they'd like to see and I believe him but it flies in the face of the nerfs from a couple of months ago that he sold as necessary changes. Most importantly, he got btfo'd on the coherency toughness regen thing.

The Mortis Trials thing that's being added doesn't have any relevance to me. If I wanted to play a roguelike/roguelite/whatever the fuck, I'd go play Isaac or Risk of Rain, but that's just me.

It's chaos wastes but probably worse. CW has been lame as shit ever since they tweaked all the good boons and added a million filler ones. RIP lightning minigun. One of the problems these modes run into is that they often do have good ideas which would fit into the main game mode but they'll forever be confined to a crap alternate mode which sours the experience almost immediately. See: some of the chaos wastes weapon traits.

 

[POWER IN MISERY]

i haven't played darktide since december; is this what the game turned into? everyone acting like a gay cunt?

 

[Trogspawn]

I haven't played Darktide in months, but isn't the main drawback of Ogryn that he's fucking huge? Like, so big that you cannot take cover and get eviscerated by gunners? There does not seem to be anything that mitigates that. Seems likely that most still won't play him because of that.

 

[MidUSA]

Slayer in VT2 a the same ability (not as an innate) and it wasn't that good. I'm going to assume it functions identically.

Slayers version (Barge) had a big opportunity cost since picking it meant not taking one of the other two choices. Both being great damage reduction talents.
Ogryn gets it baked into his base kit.

Since Ogryn is so big I think he'll have more use of this ability than slayer ever had. Slayer had a very short uptime ultimate, allowing him to jump all over the place so you seldom felt boxed in as slayer.

Number one cause of death for an ogre, on the other hand, tend to be getting his toe stuck on a poxwalker trying to dodge a net and generally getting boxed in and not killing chaff quick enough to create space. At least when I'm playing him.

 

[Blazing Piety]

is this what the game turned into? everyone acting like a gay cunt?

In all of my time playing the game, I've seen this happen maybe a handful of times. People that play like this are so despised by the community at large that they usually end up being kicked if they don't end up leaving the moment they get downed. Just grief people who do this shit by not getting into airlocks or elevators - the game won't proceed unless every living player is in the checkpoint, so as long as you stay alive you can stall the game for as long as you want. That usually makes them fuck off.

I haven't played Darktide in months, but isn't the main drawback of Ogryn that he's fucking huge? Like, so big that you cannot take cover and get eviscerated by gunners? There does not seem to be anything that mitigates that. Seems likely that most still won't play him because of that.

In my opinion, Ogryn has 4 things holding him back:

1. His movement is awful.
2. His attack speed on melee is awful.
3. His existing talent tree is mediocre at best. Almost all of his talents are just inferior versions of the talents the other classes have. Two of his keystones are terrible and the only usable one is just okay.
4. His large size, which does make gunners a nightmare to deal with on high difficulties.

As the update currently stands, 1 and 2 are somewhat addressed via talents but those talents don't fully solve the problems, 3 is effectively unchanged because most of the new talents and existing talent changes just aren't that good, and 4 isn't addressed at all (I realize this is more difficult to solve, but if Psyker can get ranged immunity from a talent then I don't see why Ogryn shouldn't have access to the same kind of talent). He's still fun to play from time to time, but you have to put in way more effort with him than you would have to do on any other class. At least we get pickaxes!

 

[Asian tech support]

A bunch of stuff was changed in the new ogryn tree.

• Taunt activates a second time after 3s and a third time after 6s. The new node No Pain also receives its bonuses from each activation
• Bruiser and the new node No Hurting Friends have swapped places, eliminating node tax
• The new node Frenzied Blows has had its attack speed increased from 2% per stack to 2.5%
• The new node Lucky Streak has been increased to 50% critical damage up from I can't remember but low (ogryn weapons almost universally have low crit modifiers)
• Bonebreaker's Aura changed to a flat 10% melee damage instead of heavy melee damage
• Steady Grip increased to 12.5% toughness regeneration while bracing a weapon, up from something lower like 7.5% I think. This is an easy one point must take in just about every build now I think

Probably some other stuff too that I'm missing. I couldn't find any stealth notes, I'm just going off of the build editor.

 

[MidUSA]

• Steady Grip increased to 12.5% toughness regeneration while bracing a weapon, up from something lower like 7.5% I think. This is an easy one point must take in just about every build now I think

Steady grip was always 12,5%.
They just finally updated the description text to reflect reality.

 

[Asian tech support]

Mortis trials are alright. They're not enough of a challenge to discuss in depth but they can be fun if you pick big box of hurt, get the 20s nade replenish boon, the 90% double nade boon, and the box comes loaded with every type of grenade boon. You can put up numbers like this:

The boon archetypes are pretty unbalanced too. Pyrokinetic is imo by far the best, colossus isn't particularly useful in any circumstance, death dealer is kind of only good on weapon swap veteran, voltaic is better on melee focused characters, and fulminator isn't as good as pyrokinetic or voltaic as the boon pool is simply too diluted.
What they nailed was the duration. With a competent team, you should be getting ~25 min clears, as opposed to VT2's Chaos Wastes which tend to take the better part of an hour, especially if you're doing a citadel run.

 

[Troonos]

I heard that, a year ago, they patched the game and added an RPG-like skill system to what used to be a plain shooter. Is this true?

How is the game a couple of years after release? 50% off on Steam right now. Is it worth a buy?

 

[MidUSA]

Mortis trials are alright. They're not enough of a challenge to discuss in depth but they can be fun if you pick big box of hurt, get the 20s nade replenish boon, the 90% double nade boon, and the box comes loaded with every type of grenade boon. You can put up numbers like this:
View attachment 7153849
The boon archetypes are pretty unbalanced too. Pyrokinetic is imo by far the best, colossus isn't particularly useful in any circumstance, death dealer is kind of only good on weapon swap veteran, voltaic is better on melee focused characters, and fulminator isn't as good as pyrokinetic or voltaic as the boon pool is simply too diluted.

The grenades really get crazy for ogryn, to the point it kinda trivialize a run if you get the boons you mention on the ogryn box.

I had a run with DeathDealer on Ogryn with surgical kickback. It was pretty dope, just keep ads and you get constant non-ammo-consuming guaranteed crit shot that need no reload as long as you space the shots out a second or so apart.

I heard that, a year ago, they patched the game and added an RPG-like skill system to what used to be a plain shooter. Is this true?

How is the game a couple of years after release? 50% off on Steam right now. Is it worth a buy?

They changed from the Vermintide 2 esque systems of 5 choices of one of three abilities to a talent tree where you have 30 points to spend for various talents and minor buffs.

I'd say the game is def worth checking out for a discount. First 10 levels or so levelling up a character is a bit stiff, as the weapons are so sucky, even used on the gimped enemies on the low difficulties, but after that it feels ok to play.

 

[SandyCat]

With Ogryn I want to feel like I'm playing something with ungodly amounts of retard strength but it doesn't ever feel that way to me. Playing one makes me feel like a oversized character with not much else going on. If they gave him the added benefits of being able to knock around larger enemies more consistently or even shit like being able to walk through smaller enemies that would be nice

 

[Asian tech support]

I had a run with DeathDealer on Ogryn with surgical kickback. It was pretty dope, just keep ads and you get constant non-ammo-consuming guaranteed crit shot that need no reload as long as you space the shots out a second or so apart.

What's interesting is that with the ogryn rework, they've tried to make weapon swap ogryn a thing, though the build I tried was a do nothing abomination.

There's like four additional nodes I'd want fit to make it work with the rumbler. Oh well.
I did a run with death dealer ogryn as well but it was nothing compared to pyrokinetic even without any grenade boons. It wasn't bad and none of the archetypes are bad, just that some do less than others.

With Ogryn I want to feel like I'm playing something with ungodly amounts of retard strength but it doesn't ever feel that way to me. Playing one makes me feel like a oversized character with not much else going on. If they gave him the added benefits of being able to knock around larger enemies more consistently or even shit like being able to walk through smaller enemies that would be nice

The ogryn rework lets him dodge through chaff and taking a couple impact nodes with the shield lets you knock over ogryn enemies. It's not all there but it's a start. I severely underestimated just how tanky the post rework orgyn is.

I heard that, a year ago, they patched the game and added an RPG-like skill system to what used to be a plain shooter. Is this true?

How is the game a couple of years after release? 50% off on Steam right now. Is it worth a buy?

Something else to note: some weapons feel very bad, even on lower difficulties and because almost everything has two or three variants, it can be confusing as to which marks are good and which are shit. Every top tier build has at least one weapon that can deal with armor and most of those feel very good to use.

 

[Asian tech support]

 

[Toilet Grenade]

Finally, I can LARP as Judge Dredd.

 

[Blazing Piety]

Seems interesting, but then I saw

Players will be able to purchase the Arbites Class on all platforms on June 23, 2025 for the price of $11.99 / €11.99.

I have spent exactly 0 dollars on this game and I'd like to keep it that way. People have been begging for a new class for a while, so I guess F$ saw the perfect way to make some money, but this really should be content that isn't paywalled. I'm hoping there's enough backlash to make it available to everyone, but since that's probably not happening, I'm also hoping that it doesn't end up being the strongest class and making the game pay-to-win.

 

[Asian tech support]

have spent exactly 0 dollars on this game and I'd like to keep it that way. People have been begging for a new class for a while, so I guess F$ saw the perfect way to make some money, but this really should be content that isn't paywalled. I'm hoping there's enough backlash to make it available to everyone, but since that's probably not happening, I'm also hoping that it doesn't end up being the strongest class and making the game pay-to-win.

I'm more concerned about lobbies. The game is gonna be shit for at least a week. At least in VT2 you couldn't double up on classes.
$12 gets you three VT2 DLC classes. I dunno why this one needs to be more.

 

[SandyCat]

$12 gets you three VT2 DLC classes. I dunno why this one needs to be more.

I remember when they said they wouldn't do microtransctions in Vermintide 1. Then they added them into Vermintide 2 claiming all other content would be free. Then they paywalled careers contradicting their own statement.

I can tolerate MTX if the other content is free at least but doing both is greedy as shit and of course there's apologists defending it.

 

[Asian tech support]

I remember when they said they wouldn't do microtransctions in Vermintide 1. Then they added them into Vermintide 2 claiming all other content would be free. Then they paywalled careers contradicting their own statement.

I can tolerate MTX if the other content is free at least but doing both is greedy as shit and of course there's apologists defending it.

The way Fatshark handled VT2 paid content was absolutely mental.

I didn't think there was an issue with how map dlc was handled in VT1. I don't remember people being skeeved over the model either. The Fatshark cope was that maps were expensive and time consuming to make and that map packs weren't profitable, ergo the proceeds from the shekel emporium was meant to roll new content... only for said new content to arrive YEARS late and I seriously doubt that hats ever sold well enough to roll a single map. In a bizarre twist, VT2 has received more new maps than Darktide has during the same period. Since the release of Darktide, VT2 has received NINE maps (Trail of Treachery, Tower of Treachery, Mission of Mercy, A Grudge Served Cold, Khazukan Kazakit-ha, A Parting of the Waves, The Forsaken Temple, Devious Delvings, and The Well of Dreams) as well as Versus (lmao rip piece of shit mode). Meanwhile, Darktide has received 6.5 maps during the same period (Archivum Sycorax, Ascension Riser, Mercantile HL-70-04, Warren 6-19, Clandestium Gloriana, Dark Communion, and Rolling Steel. Enclavum Baross and and Comms Plex don't count). Vermintide is imo a better game but it's also barely alive. I'll welcome new maps but I'd rather they concentrate on making DT a proper successor. It's nice to know that people at Fatshark clearly like VT2 enough to grace us with new content so I'm still kind of holding out for a VT3 that's not some AoS nonsense but that's neither here nor there. I would have gladly paid for additional map packs if they didn't take three years to release but instead they wanted money for hats of which they received none because fuck if anyone actually paid for those things.

I honestly didn't have an issue with the paid careers in VT2, mostly because they were cheap and fun. My hangup was that they all came out during a content drought and Fatshark was busy stealing ideas from balance patch mods. In other words, they came out during a period where the game didn't deserve your money. People expected paid classes in Darktide from the get-go. Given that DT launched with a mere 4 classes after VT2 released with 15, there wasn't a good reason for new classes to be paid but this also came off the heels of a disaster of an interview the Fatshart CEO did where I'm pretty sure he defended a lot of the decisions and monetization of DT. I'd have to track down the article to be 100% certain. I remember parts of future classes were datamined (like krak nades and some gun lugger stuff) and were later incorporated into the skill tree rework. At the time, Fatshark was eating so much shit over the botched launch and the distasteful interview that releasing paid class dlc would have been suicide.