DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[God of Nothing]

Agreed.

"Superman is OP" has been a meme for decades now. People take this as fact, and repeat it as a mantra, but in reality it's been decades of writers nerfing Superman, because they are also scared of people complaining about it.

The reality is that in most adaptations, including, no, especially the DCAU, they have "overcorrected" this non-issue to the point he is actually very unimpressive. Especially now that kids are having "Invincible" as their first superhero show, versus your average Superman , who gets beaten or knocked out by random laser, kryptonite, electricity, etc. and Batman or someone else saves the day, seems lame in comparison.

Meanwhile, everyone is creaming their pants about the Temu Kryptonians, like Thragg, Conquest, Omni-Man, and yes Invincible himself.It's almost like you can have a character with Superman's powers and make them do cool things with their powers, and people will love it as long as there are proper stakes.

It doesn't matter who is "more powerful". My point is that for some reason only Superman gets these complaints while other characters with similar powers get celebrated. It's almost like the powers weren't the issue. Superman these days either curb stomps or becomes useless with little in between.

Superman is not OP, and in fact the opposite is true. Writers should stop being scared of displaying his true power. Give him villains strong enough to challenge him. It really is that simple. Invincible is making a bank on the concept of "Temu Kryptonians fight each other". DC could easily be more creative than that.

sorry, buddy
it's invincing time
the world's viltrumite: the kryptonians exist to cry in shame at what they could've been

You're not going to get Superman on the level of Invincible without actually conveying how strong they are or the fact taking any serious hit would demolish someone's body. I gave up on action in comics decades ago. These days, comics can't even convey fucking impact. Buildings in Apokolips have to be tougher than 90% of the superhero cast from the way Darkseid bitchslaps Clark without sending him straight through. Damn, Supes got hit so hard he's out of it? Is there a big hole in him or is his face caved in? Oh right, age ratings and all that are still a thing.

Frost breath and heat vision are super gay. In big fights, he'll use the heat vision primarily against someone else with eye beams. I wonder how many people forgot he could even freeze shit. Not much of that in the big screen or animated one for that matter. And he really doesn't bother using it in his major fights, punching unsurprisingly being more effective when you are a literal flying brick (the best kind of brick).

I find it sad that not only is the cartoon 30 times lamer and gayer than the OG work, but the only good thing it had going for, the animation, is seemingly gone. Good thing I only stuck with the comic, and even then, these watered down Supes are boring as hell as they all have basic powers. Granted, Supes' grocery list of superpowers is OP, but unlike the Viltrus, he has clear weaknesses that affect him.

people pretending like the show did a better job is really grating
there are so many unnecessary melodramatic scenes of mark whining they added to appeal to retarded women and to pad the runtime
it was just fucking embarassing watching the season finale and they kept the worst shit kirkman wrote while adding more stupid shit
what a waste

 

[Newcomer 42]

people pretending like the show did a better job is really grating
there are so many unnecessary melodramatic scenes of mark whining they added to appeal to retarded women and to pad the runtime
it was just fucking embarassing watching the season finale and they kept the worst shit kirkman wrote while adding more stupid shit
what a waste

Hey, I don't even watch the show. I dropped the comic when the writer had a villain slaughter the entirety of New Vegas to install solar panels and have the protagonist agree this is a good idea. I hoped that the show would at least have good action scenes, but that's not a thing in the latest season from what I read so far.

 

[God of Nothing]

Hey, I don't even watch the show. I dropped the comic when the writer had a villain slaughter the entirety of New Vegas to install solar panels and have the protagonist agree this is a good idea. I hoped that the show would at least have good action scenes, but that's not a thing in the latest season from what I read so far.

yeeeeah, that's why i have no hope for the show
they're going to keep all of the stupid shit

sad it will probably still be the only officially produced western animation worth watching

 

[Incecticyder]

It’s the ultimate “time out” beating, that comes from learning your chrome latina gf was ready to kill you drop of a hat, the world you’re on is a nightmare right out of the Crime Syndicate, they killed one of the few heroes in front of you, you’re going to die and kill everyone and this fucking blondie thinks he can take you, Captain Atom, to the Sun, this fucking retarded queer, took a walking nuclear bomb, to the Sun. Game on.

The beating was made certainly worse by the fact that he would have spared them if they stopped. They knew it too. And if they won, their world would die. Gunn wanted these to be the heroes of his movie. If this isn't an indication, I don't know what is.

Well word for word that’s why his kit is limited, Doctor Manhattan spelled it out. If Nathaniel did get educated, he’d be the toughest thing on the planet and would be able to do what Doctor Manhattan can use his powers for.

I always thought Captain Atom should take over the Authority but that ties back to my idea of smashing the Authority into Earth 3 and giving them a taste of their own medicine with tyrannical supers who don’t fuck around.

That is the thing though: That kind if power NEEDS education otherwise you have a guy who can nuke the planet by accident. Or give someone super-cancer. Captain Atom wouldn't want either to happen so he would definitely learn the literature around his powers.

Mainly because a “Boy Scout” leading the Authority is good contrast (not Superman though) and DC has no idea what to do with both parties so why not? Atom, from the part in the mini when he was friendly with them, seemed like had he been “born” in Wildstorm, would’ve been a member, living weapon, chewed up and spat out, pissed off with the system, oh yeah, Jenny would’ve gotten her hooks in him.

Taking over the Authority would mean having to stop a bunch of murderers from killing 24/7 for the rest of his life. I don't think these guys wouldn't try to fight him again for leadership only to get an Armageddon right in their face.

 

[Mystery Spy]

I find it sad that not only is the cartoon 30 times lamer and gayer than the OG work, but the only good thing it had going for, the animation, is seemingly gone. Good thing I only stuck with the comic, and even then, these watered down Supes are boring as hell as they all have basic powers. Granted, Supes' grocery list of superpowers is OP, but unlike the Viltrus, he has clear weaknesses that affect him.

You're not going to get Superman on the level of Invincible without actually conveying how strong they are or the fact taking any serious hit would demolish someone's body. I gave up on action in comics decades ago. These days, comics can't even convey fucking impact. Buildings in Apokolips have to be tougher than 90% of the superhero cast from the way Darkseid bitchslaps Clark without sending him straight through. Damn, Supes got hit so hard he's out of it? Is there a big hole in him or is his face caved in? Oh right, age ratings and all that are still a thing

Don't get me wrong I am not saying Invincible is the best thing ever. Far from it.

But I do think that there is something DC can learn from them. If Viltrumites are shown as unapologetically powerful, and people online love them for it, why can't DC do the same with Superman?

Maybe we should be asking why the internet was hyped about Conquest or Thragg, or of the invincible characters literally destroying a planet, while Superman constantly gets lame moments because writers are scared of making him "OP" and overcorrect.

Being Op is subjetive. Spiderman is OP against random street gangs, but weak against Thanos.

"Superman is OP" is a meme with a simple solution. Just give him worthy challenges. It really is that simple.

 

[Incecticyder]

If Viltrumites are shown as unapologetically powerful, and people online love them for it, why can't DC do the same with Superman?

Viltrumites have "bad boy" appeal. Them being nice because "Earth women taught them love" is one hell of a fantasy for women.

Maybe we should be asking why the internet was hyped about Conquest or Thragg, or of the invincible characters literally destroying a planet, while Superman constantly gets lame moments because writers are scared of making him "OP" and overcorrect.

Both are villains with charisma. Superman is a hero. Also, he gets shafted with writers that fail him.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

A WB Games Artist just leaked Injustice 3 on his portfolio:
View attachment 8936137

https://mp1st.com/news/report-injustice-3-in-development-at-netherrealm-studios

What characters are we all expecting/hoping for?

---

Given the president by 2 that roster follows the movies/shows, my best guesses are:

• The Bride (Creature Commandos)
• Metamorpho (Superman 2025)
• Mr. Terrific (Superman 2025)
• Clayface (Clayface 2026)
• Peacemaker (Peacemaker Season 2)

Also, I am guessing the following are returning from Injustice 1:

• Lex Luthor (Superman 2025)
• Lobo (Supergirl 2026)
• Hawkgirl (Superman 2025)

General Returns are going to be all the characters present in both Injustice 1&2 + Supergirl. Injustice 2 really didn't add anyone I think has a likely chance of coming back, as dumb as that is to say for Darkseid, Starfire, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, and Black Canary who all should return.

Personal wants - I think Beast Boy should join and complete the Titans for these games. Otherwise, I want obscure weirdos like Amethyst, Katana, Star Sapphire, Gentleman Ghost, Bumble Bee, Jinx, Fire & Ice, Livewire, or Plastic Man. I know Scarecrow ain't returning so I am bracing for that disappointment.

I just want Nightwing, with an added helmet, to earn back all the street cred he's lost.

He isn't dead, just trapped in the Phantom Zone with the rest of the Teen Titans.

Didn't they end up getting released after Injustice 1 when Zod escapes the phantom zone and kills Tim?

Seen it stated that Injustice 3 should just be Blackest Night at this point. Too many dead characters, may as well have them come back and haunt Clark. Would also make the roster worthwhile as somewhere between 1 & 2 is the perfect DC roster, they just got rid of good characters between games and added/kept lame ducks. Shazam, Zatanna, Raven, Lex, Hawkgirl and Deathstroke need to return, feels hollow without them.

I think that was the original leak for Injustice 3, that it'd be a Blackest Night storyline.

"Superman is OP" has been a meme for decades now. People take this as fact, and repeat it as a mantra, but in reality it's been decades of writers nerfing Superman, because they are also scared of people complaining about it.

I'm annoyed when people spam 'OP' claims because being Over Powered is a matter of comparison to other prominent aspects of a story. Any Superman story worth it's salt is pitting Superman up against someone who either matches his power or works around it, it's rarely a story of how Superman flicks a geriatric lobotomy patient to death.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Viltrumites have "bad boy" appeal. Them being nice because "Earth women taught them love" is one hell of a fantasy for women.

Both are villains with charisma. Superman is a hero. Also, he gets shafted with writers that fail him.

I agree with you on both counts.

But this time I just want to highlight how once you stop listening to the “Superman is too OP” crowd, shockingly it turns out you can have Superman-level characters going all out, and make it fun and popular. It just requires good writing.

The usual defense from Superman fans about his power is that he is more about the ideals he stands for, and it’s true. But I think it’s also possible to make him powerful without relying on the usual kryptonite/nerf crutch.

Dragon Ball Z and now Invincible have been doing it for years now. Why not DC?

 

[Incecticyder]

I agree with you on both counts.

But this time I just want to highlight how once you stop listening to the “Superman is too OP” crowd, shockingly it turns out you can have Superman-level characters going all out, and make it fun and popular. It just requires good writing.

The usual defense from Superman fans about his power is that he is more about the ideals he stands for, and it’s true. But I think it’s also possible to make him powerful without relying on the usual kryptonite/nerf crutch.

Dragon Ball Z and now Invincible have been doing it for years now. Why not DC?

It is far simpler than that. Superman has the DC universe. That means he joins far weaker heroes in fight. By giving him truly challenging opponents all the time, his rogue's gallery will steamroll the other heroes. There have to be some even Batman or Wonder Woman or whoever can fight when we have a JL story. They might not be able to take one General Zod or his soldiers but they can take on Livewire. We have seen what happens when the JL tries to fight Superman-level opponents that have combat training and don't hold back. Just ask the Guardians of the Globe how that goes. A lot of these guys and the Earth is doomed. The Viltrumites held back because they needed to reproduce and ended up going good. If a bunch of people who are crueler than even Thragg and just as strong show up, the DC humans are doomed. Having Superman be challenged to that extend physically is going to break the DC universe. He has to be challenged in other ways most of the time.

As for DBZ, the characters that couldn't fight ended up being irrelevant. Sure, Krillin, Roshi and Tien might still join fights but what about Yamcha and Chiaotzu? Ok, Yamcha had other reasons too but the point stands.

 

[Mystery Spy]

It is far simpler than that. Superman has the DC universe. That means he joins far weaker heroes in fight.

I agree that a Superman story and a Justice League story have diferent needs. On the later everyone has to share the Spotlight.

But if You are telling a Superman centric story? Or Even in a crossover, you want him to have an important role? Then there's no reason not to have him dealwith enemies that can challenge him. That's it. You don't need to "break the universe". It's just standard good storytelling to make the hero work for their victory.

You are disussing the details on specific Dragonball and Invincible plots. But for me what's relevant in this discussion from those franchises is that very powerful characters can work, and the "Too Op" complaint is nonsensical.

Yes Monster girl, and Krillin can't defeat the main bad guy. But that's fine because they are not the main characters.

I think you are making mistake is thinking of "power level" like a videogame that has to be balanced and fair for gameplay for everyone. But stories don't work like that.

Sometimes a character will be irrelevant in a movie or show and that's ok. It's called "being a secondary character". It depends on the needs of the particular story .

Personally I believe that if If a hero is not a main character in a specific plot, then there's not point in worrying of they could or couldn't fight a villain. The story is not about them anyway.

You may hate it but Toriyama didn't want want Yamcha etc to be main characters anymore. He could've made them more powerful if he had wanted like he did with Piccolo.But he didn't so they got downgraded.

 

[Incecticyder]

But if You are telling a Superman centric story? Or Even in a crossover, you want him to have an importante role? Then there's no reason not to have him real with enemies that can challenge him. That's it. You don't need to "break the universe". It's just standard good storytelling to make the hero work for their victory.

Superman doesn't always need to be challenged in a fight. Have him do something that only he can. Lift an object only he can lift. Save someone only he can save.

You are disussing the details on specific Dragonball and Invincible plots. But for me what's relevant in this discussion from those franchises is that very powerful characters can work, and the "Too Op" complaint is nonsensical.

Yes Monster girl, and Krillin can't defeat the main bad guy. But that's fine because they are not the main characters.

I think you are making mistake is thinking of "power level" like a videogame that has to be balanced and fair for gameplay for everyone. But stories don't work like that.

I am not talking about the MAIN bad guy. But you have to put in effort to make opponents for everyone. That takes extra effort. It is a crossover. You can't just have Batman fight the Batman villain. Mix it up. However, if the overall enemy team is composed of people that are too strong for Batman, we have an issue. Look at the Tournament of Power: There were opponents for every level of power. Everyone got a fight. A potential DC counterpart will have to do the same. One Piece does it all the time.

Sometimes a character is irrelevant in a movie or show and that's ok. It's called "being a secondary character". It depends on the needs of the particular story .

Yes but if the story features them, then they better do something. Otherwise, we have a "Sakura Syndrome". Secondary characters HAVE to have the time in the spotlight and in action stories that means fights.

Personally I believe that if If a hero is not a main character in a specific plot, then there's not point in worrying of they could or couldn't fight a villain. It's not about them.

If you can't do something with them either find something or don't feature them at all. However, that comes with the risk of leaving the characters underdeveloped. No one is interested in a beloved character being demoted to extra or a cameo.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Superman doesn't always need to be challenged in a fight. Have him do something that only he can. Lift an object only he can lift. Save someone only he can save.

I agree but I am specificaly critiquing writers that are too scared to actually make him to something useful. It goes without saying he can be useful outside of fights, and yes because he has a kind heart.

If you can't do something with them either find something or don't feature them at all. However, that comes with the risk of leaving the characters underdeveloped. No one is interested in a beloved character being demoted to extra or a cameo.

Yes but if the story features them, then they better do something. Otherwise, we have a "Sakura Syndrome"

I get what you are saying and I mostly agree but I would still argue it's not a one glove fits all. It heavily depends on the context.

Are we talking about a Superman show? A Justice League movie? And episode of a long running Justice League show? One of those old stand alone direct to DVD DC movies ?

And if it's an ensemble show are they even the Main characters of that particular episode ? The DCAU nade an episode about Booster gold helping a scientist with the DC Trinity in the background fighting a wizard. We didn't even see the fight because It just wasn't about them.

I agree in that if you feature a character it's ideal they will be relevant in some way. That requires writing talent. But not everyone will be in the spotlight all the time and that's ok.

Depends on the story you are telling. And that's assuming it's not a stand alone movie were you don't need to worry about "developing all the characters" like you would in an anime. Once it's over it's over.

 

[Incecticyder]

I agree but I am specificaly critiquing writers that are too scared to actually make him to something useful. It goes without saying he can be useful outside of fights, and yes because he has a kind heart.

Yeah well, there is nothing we can do about that. They got Gunn to make Superman films and the less said about the comics, the better.

Animation has always been DC's strong suit. Even "My Adventures with Superman" was well received by its target demographic (women).

I get what You are saying and I mostly agree but I would still argue it's not a one glove fits all. It heavily depends on the context.

Are we talking about a Superman show? A Justice League movie? And episode of a long running Justice League show? One of those old stand alone direct to DVD DC movies ?

And if it's an ensemble show are they Even the Main characters of that particular episode ? The DCAU nade an episode about Booster gold with the DC Trinity in the background fighting a wizard. It just wasn't about them.

I agree in that if you feature a character it's ideal they Will be relevant in some way. That requires writting talent. But not everyone Will be in the Spotlight all the time and that's ok. Depends on the story You are telling. And that's assuming it's not a stand alone movie were you don't need to sorry about "developing all the characters" like you would in an anime.

Not every project/episode/series/movie can feature everyone. However, if they feature them, they better do it right. Imagine if a story was about some of the JL members and amongst them one wasn't able to do anything, wouldn't that suck? You can't have everyone but make sure that those you do have are made to look cool. Can you imagine if the debut of the old JL cartoon shafted any of the characters? Everyone should get their time to shine. Even the D-listers got at least one episode in JLU.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

I'll jump on the topic:
Superman is indeed OP and I think that's one of the main reasons why he's not that popular anymore and his movies always struggle to make a profit.
Back when his comic books were #1, he wasn't able to do even a fraction of the shit he can do now.
I remember that one time when some alien was testing his strength and he had Superman holding like 800 quadrillion tons.... WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!?
Do the writers even know? Probably not. They just wanted to have a ridiculous number to show that he's the strongestest.
Over the last 40 years or so, Superman got so powerful that he became boring as fuck.

The only good thing Gunn has done in his Superman movie is de-power the fucker.
He's strong and fast but not so much that nobody else matters like in the Snyderverse.
When that one scene happened where Gardner went up to Superman like "COME @ ME, BRO", that fight could have gone either way if it happened and I like that.

In the comic books, they have to create ridiculous villains like the Anti-Monitor to pose a challenge to Superman, it's silly.

 

[God of Nothing]

remember when clark shouted darkseid to death?

 

[Humble Architect]

I'll jump on the topic:
Superman is indeed OP and I think that's one of the main reasons why he's not that popular anymore and his movies always struggle to make a profit.
Back when his comic books were #1, he wasn't able to do even a fraction of the shit he can do now.
I remember that one time when some alien was testing his strength and he had Superman holding like 800 quadrillion tons.... WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!?
Do the writers even know? Probably not. They just wanted to have a ridiculous number to show that he's the strongestest.
Over the last 40 years or so, Superman got so powerful that he became boring as fuck.

The only good thing Gunn has done in his Superman movie is de-power the fucker.
He's strong and fast but not so much that nobody else matters like in the Snyderverse.
When that one scene happened where Gardner went up to Superman like "COME @ ME, BRO", that fight could have gone either way if it happened and I like that.

In the comic books, they have to create ridiculous villains like the Anti-Monitor to pose a challenge to Superman, it's silly.

Superman literally got fucking nerfed back in the aftermath of the Crisis, in 1986 you retard.

“Gunn Superman” is the base he’s been at for decades.

 

[Fartificial Insmelligence]

I'll jump on the topic:
Superman is indeed OP and I think that's one of the main reasons why he's not that popular anymore and his movies always struggle to make a profit.
Back when his comic books were #1, he wasn't able to do even a fraction of the shit he can do now.
I remember that one time when some alien was testing his strength and he had Superman holding like 800 quadrillion tons.... WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!?
Do the writers even know? Probably not. They just wanted to have a ridiculous number to show that he's the strongestest.
Over the last 40 years or so, Superman got so powerful that he became boring as fuck.

The only good thing Gunn has done in his Superman movie is de-power the fucker.
He's strong and fast but not so much that nobody else matters like in the Snyderverse.
When that one scene happened where Gardner went up to Superman like "COME @ ME, BRO", that fight could have gone either way if it happened and I like that.

In the comic books, they have to create ridiculous villains like the Anti-Monitor to pose a challenge to Superman, it's silly.

I’ll say it; Superman was at his peak in the 50’s and 60’s comics where he was insanely powerful as a baseline AND every other issue he had some crazy new power like shooting a tiny duplicate of himself out of his fingertips (comics are weird, yo…). The writers could come up with all the crazy plots they wanted and even the lamest issues had some fun stuff, like Superman just going back in time whenever he wanted or Lois Lane getting the shit gaslit out of her for thinking Clark Kent was Supes…

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I feel like people on here are really downplaying how batshit crazy the DC Universe is.

This is a universe where an entire group of people run so fast that they can literally shatter reality, time traveling and going into alternative timelines.

You have Wonder Woman who is a Demi-God capable of going against literal Gods like Ares on the daily.

Zatanna is so OP they don’t even attempt to give her restrictions to the bullshit she can pull. She just needs to say it backwards

Green Lanterns also have like no restrictions either, mother fuckers can just make Solar Systems and think faster than the Flash because fuck you.

God damn Lois Lane was able to grab bat armor and have a smack down with Darkseid.

And hell, let’s not even get into characters having their own 5th dimensional imps that just breaks all logic because…

Everyone in DC is pulling god like shit out of their ass. Acting like Superman needs to be omega nerfed is ridiculous in this universe. Damn near everyone is on steroids, Superman just happens to be taking more than the rest.

 

[God of Nothing]

This is a universe where an entire group of people run so fast that they can literally shatter reality, time traveling and going into alternative timelines.

deathstroke no diffs by sliding his sword really slowly in the direction they will go

You have Wonder Woman who is a Demi-God capable of going against literal Gods like Ares on the daily.

i don't think people even try to pretend wondy is relevant or even makes sense anymore other than to act like women are a thing in DC

Zatanna is so OP they don’t even attempt to give her restrictions to the bullshit she can pull. She just needs to say it backwards

how hard is it to gag a bitch?

Green Lanterns also have like no restrictions either, mother fuckers can just make Solar Systems and think faster than the Flash because fuck you.

man, if only they could do this outside of their own comics

God damn Lois Lane was able to grab bat armor and have a smack down with Darkseid.

you should be ashamed of yourself for acknowledging this happening

Everyone in DC is pulling god like shit out of their ass. Acting like Superman needs to be omega nerfed is ridiculous in this universe. Damn near everyone is on steroids, Superman just happens to be taking more than the rest.

People say one thing but it's not the core issue. What Clark and comics in general suffer from is consistency. And you will never solve that problem as long as there are constantly different writers, editorial teams that don't care, and a dozen different concurrently running series.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

deathstroke no diffs by sliding his sword really slowly in the direction they will go

Deadshot can apparently just shoot him in the leg while he runs really fast