DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

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There’s been a lot of Flash clips being posted online now that the movie is out digitally, and fucking hell, does having Batman go “I could solve all the crime in Gotham if I used all my money to solve poverty” while under the influence of the Lasso of Truth piss me off hardcore.

They took that shitty Reddit “Batman is evil because rich” crap and made it canon in a DC film.

Hollywood can burn.
 
SteelPlatedHeart said:
There’s been a lot of Flash clips being posted online now that the movie is out digitally, and fucking hell, does having Batman go “I could solve all the crime in Gotham if I used all my money to solve poverty” while under the influence of the Lasso of Truth piss me off hardcore.

They took that shitty Reddit “Batman is evil because rich” crap and made it canon in a DC film.

Hollywood can burn.
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It's retarded too because Batman DOES use his wealth to fund anti-poverty measures and clean up the streets. It just doesn't help because surprise, surprise, throwing money at a complex problem does not actually solve said problem. People who say that stupid line have the moral and intellectual development of a sheltered toddler.
 
Us nerds at Kiwi Farms Movie Night saw Flash yesterday and.... it's pretty good.
Some of the effects look noticeably rushed so they're not the best quality but the artstyle of those effects is good.
The story is inventive and very different from your usual villain of the week crap we tend to get.
I honestly think that, in terms of capeshit, it blows anything recent out of the water.

The unfortunate thing is that a creepy perverted criminal is the lead and that will tarnish the movie's reputation and destroy any possible success.
Still, as long as you don't pay for it, it's possible to turn off the part of your brain which tells you to despise Ezra Miller for 150 minutes and enjoy the spectacle.
 
SteelPlatedHeart said:
There’s been a lot of Flash clips being posted online now that the movie is out digitally, and fucking hell, does having Batman go “I could solve all the crime in Gotham if I used all my money to solve poverty” while under the influence of the Lasso of Truth piss me off hardcore.

They took that shitty Reddit “Batman is evil because rich” crap and made it canon in a DC film.

Hollywood can burn.
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Isn't like the whole point of Gotham that it's institutionally corrupt and throwing money at the problem has the opposite effect? Like, that was literally the theme of Bruce's dad. He poured money into philanthropy and still got shot by a criminal in an alley. Half of the time (depending on the writer) that criminal was on the take for Falcone.
 
ArthuriusMartyrius said:
I'm not even going to get into absolutely bizarre choices like Livewire who shouldn't even be a fucking threat to Supes unless they retcon in yet ANOTHER weakness for Kryptonians to electricity because lazy writing.
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Livewire was an OC from Superman: TAS. They knew he had a weak rogues gallery and yet the new ones they came up with don't even make sense as Superman villains. Like: Volcana, really? Pretty sure he's fireproof?

NSA said:
I think it's pretty clear that he's doing a wacky team movie for Superman a la Guardians of the Galaxy.
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I think it's a little early to be certain of the precise reasons that the film will inevitably be lousy.
 
ArthuriusMartyrius said:
I'm not even going to get into absolutely bizarre choices like Livewire who shouldn't even be a fucking threat to Supes unless they retcon in yet ANOTHER weakness for Kryptonians to electricity because lazy writing.
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Calandrino said:
Livewire was an OC from Superman: TAS. They knew he had a weak rogues gallery and yet the new ones they came up with don't even make sense as Superman villains. Like: Volcana, really? Pretty sure he's fireproof?
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The Christopher Reeves movies gave Superman his weakness to electricity, so the DCAU gets a slight pass.
 
I'll say again that to me a "strong as he needs to be" Supes that can still literally feel the heat or get bad shocks from heavy enough jolts of electricity is perfectly fine, he'll just recover fast(-er) because Superman. That said - Volcana was just lame, but Livewire was a delight.
 
Meh, Superman villains need to be on a high-tier scale like Galactus, Ego, Starro, Mr. Mxyzptlk or alien conquerors with super-weapons like Mongul or entire alien empires like, I dunno, Viltrumites or some shit. The likes of Livewire should be fighting Spider-Man not Supes.
 
ArthuriusMartyrius said:
Meh, Superman villains need to be on a high-tier scale like Galactus, Ego, Starro, Mr. Mxyzptlk or alien conquerors with super-weapons like Mongul or entire alien empires like, I dunno, Viltrumites or some shit. The likes of Livewire should be fighting Spider-Man not Supes.
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that reminds me of an opinion I read ages ago that batman's conflict is external, while superman's in internal.
you can put supes against a cosmic enemy, but at that point all reference of scale goes out the windows. a few pages back there was the discussion why batman is "more popular" or at least used more often, and it's simply that he's more understandable in who he is, what he does and his personal struggles. and the power isn't so off charts it can easily comes across silly or needs retarded plot devices to depower superman - batman after all is just swole inspector gadget with a gimpsuit.

however lot people don't wanna watch supes come to terms on who he is and what he can('t) do, but some dude in spandex fucking shit up, so you have more or less 2 camps you need to try to satisfy. man of steel tried but was a bit too serious about it (and later attempts at course correction either didn't work or were sabotaged on different levels). you need better writers for superman "to get it right", writing for batman and most other heroes is much easier, and writing is what especially turned to shit the last decade.

tbh I'm still wondering why they didn't do an injustice movie, maybe because you can't build a cinematic universe around it, but it would have enough action and shit going on, while giving supes and some others enough character for the normalfag audience at least understand it.
 
ZMOT said:
hat reminds me of an opinion I read ages ago that batman's conflict is external, while superman's in internal.
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I hate this opinion because Batman and Superman are both, it is what makes them unique. There are many no-power/low power heroes, but the reason Batman is so famous is because they put him through internal conflicts more often than not. The Riddler is a battle of the mind, Scarecrow is all about making Bruce come to terms with his fears, and Joker has increasingly been targeting Batman in ways to break his mental state. The villains typically say something about Bruce as a person, showing how broken he is, but also why he is above them.

Superman is battle of American ideals and power. Superman has as much power as Darksied, he could easily enslave humanity, yet he chooses to be better even amongst humanity hating him and crafting weapons to kill him. His battle with Luthor is one of the farm boy vs the the megacorp, and a god vs god complex. He is a narrative on what would happen if God truly did come to Earth, to some, he is worshiped, to others, he is an obstacle that threatens them through his mere existence. Meanwhile, Clark as a person is someone who just wants to be human, who wants to do the right thing in a world that makes the right thing complicated. The JLU Cadmus arc is probably one of Superman's best narratives put to screen, a narrative that Zack Snyder and the CW very clearly wanted to ape off of, but lacked writing like this:

Also wanted to add this as the end to this scene is incredible:
 
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ZMOT said:
that reminds me of an opinion I read ages ago that batman's conflict is external, while superman's in internal.
you can put supes against a cosmic enemy, but at that point all reference of scale goes out the windows. a few pages back there was the discussion why batman is "more popular" or at least used more often, and it's simply that he's more understandable in who he is, what he does and his personal struggles. and the power isn't so off charts it can easily comes across silly or needs retarded plot devices to depower superman - batman after all is just swole inspector gadget with a gimpsuit.

however lot people don't wanna watch supes come to terms on who he is and what he can('t) do, but some dude in spandex fucking shit up, so you have more or less 2 camps you need to try to satisfy. man of steel tried but was a bit too serious about it (and later attempts at course correction either didn't work or were sabotaged on different levels). you need better writers for superman "to get it right", writing for batman and most other heroes is much easier, and writing is what especially turned to shit the last decade.

tbh I'm still wondering why they didn't do an injustice movie, maybe because you can't build a cinematic universe around it, but it would have enough action and shit going on, while giving supes and some others enough character for the normalfag audience at least understand it.
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I would say Batman is more popular because comics are read by cynical people.

Little kids like Superman - bright colours, cool powers, good and heroic. Older kids and those adults who still read comics mostly no longer believe in purity, altruism, unironic heroism. I'm not sure anybody surrounded by funkopops can. So they like Batman. Batman is broody, edgy, driven by motivations that they aren't embarrassed by (revenge, trauma). Batman is "cool".

Now there are exceptions and those exceptions are some of the best. The adaptation of Superman vs. the Elite is one of my favourite of the animated movies. It's probably not the best in a number of ways, not without its flaws, but it places Superman's idealism square up against the edgy so-cool-violence style and I like the contrast and that Superman doesn't back down on his values. It's a deconstruction of the movement that tried to deconstruct him. Similarly I can never praise the TV series Stargirl enough because it doesn't hesitate to both show real evil but also unironic and defiant hope and people being good because it's the right thing to do.

You put it very well when you talked about Superman having to please two groups. To me those groups are the more childlike / escapist ones and the ones that have passed through their Batman Phase and relate to just wanting to be good.

Yes, this post is suggesting there's something immature in being a fan of Batman. Yes, the same poster who doesn't like Superman vs. the Elite is about to start sperging in the thread (and will just get a link back to the debate we had last time), yes, I'm fine with all of that.

I don't hate Batman. There have been some excellent stories with him and properly done his motivation and approach can be very compelling and draw you in. But I went through like that and as an adult I honestly find Superman the more relatable figure.
 
Basic Blond Boy said:
His battle with Luthor is one of the farm boy vs the the megacorp, and a god vs god complex.
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While the CW Supergirl was largely dire I admit to enjoying their Lex at times. And technically they did have their actual farm boy vs mega corp boss moment because while hoping realties he came across a depowered Smallville Clark who largely reacted like someone far too done with Luthors at this point.

 
Morethanabitfoolish said:
While the CW Supergirl was largely dire I admit to enjoying their Lex at times. And technically they did have their actual farm boy vs mega corp boss moment because while hoping realties he came across a depowered Smallville Clark who largely reacted like someone far too done with Luthors at this point.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MPDt_yUZuIY
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I'll say this. Whilst the writing for Superman in various media has often been questionable, the casting has been exemplery. Tom Welling, Brandon Routh, Henry Cavill... they're all superbly qualified for the role in both looks, charm and empathy. Routh and Cavill were both cheated out of what they deserved honestly. At least Tom Welling got a really good run as Superman.

I also have an especial respect for him for his season-long role in Lucifer. Very entertaining actor.
 
Overly Serious said:
I would say Batman is more popular because comics are read by cynical people.

Little kids like Superman - bright colours, cool powers, good and heroic. Older kids and those adults who still read comics mostly no longer believe in purity, altruism, unironic heroism. I'm not sure anybody surrounded by funkopops can. So they like Batman. Batman is broody, edgy, driven by motivations that they aren't embarrassed by (revenge, trauma). Batman is "cool".

Now there are exceptions and those exceptions are some of the best. The adaptation of Superman vs. the Elite is one of my favourite of the animated movies. It's probably not the best in a number of ways, not without its flaws, but it places Superman's idealism square up against the edgy so-cool-violence style and I like the contrast and that Superman doesn't back down on his values. It's a deconstruction of the movement that tried to deconstruct him. Similarly I can never praise the TV series Stargirl enough because it doesn't hesitate to both show real evil but also unironic and defiant hope and people being good because it's the right thing to do.

You put it very well when you talked about Superman having to please two groups. To me those groups are the more childlike / escapist ones and the ones that have passed through their Batman Phase and relate to just wanting to be good.

Yes, this post is suggesting there's something immature in being a fan of Batman. Yes, the same poster who doesn't like Superman vs. the Elite is about to start sperging in the thread (and will just get a link back to the debate we had last time), yes, I'm fine with all of that.

I don't hate Batman. There have been some excellent stories with him and properly done his motivation and approach can be very compelling and draw you in. But I went through like that and as an adult I honestly find Superman the more relatable figure.
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I don't necessarily agree. I think the issue with Superman is also heavily on writers as many are cynical atheists who write Superman from a place of contempt, which is true of a majority of superheroes, but is especially bad with him.

Superman cannot be written well under some lefty who hates authority, thinks the idea of a God is stupid and writes to deconstruct. This writing works for Batman as Batman and Gotham are largely a deconstruction of real world problems, most of which are big focuses for the left such as mental health, police corruption, political corruption, problems with the justice system, etc.. Batman and his foes are all troubled individuals who experience very real issues like absence of parents, abuse, drugs, or simply being fed up with being dealt a poor hand in life. Even the politics are fairly realistic and are arguably becoming more real. Joker takes to an ideology not far off from Antifa, where just burning shit down will somehow make life better? That or he has no value in life and just promotes Rick & Morty level nihilism where nothing matters, which again, is an increasing ideology nowadays. Past him, you have Ivy and her insane activism that she uses to avoid contact, Ras with his kill the undesirables to cure the disease mentality, Two Face with his ends justifies the means approach/ court is corrupt and so on. Batman has an excellently thoughtout world that can feel real in its awfulness while still having a magic to it.

By contrast, Superman is the man or tomorrow, a man to push a better future. Most writers and by extension audience cannot fathom this. Superman is a farm boy that comes from a loving family, which is hard to write for a city writer who likely comes from a more broken home. He is a God that does good, once again, hard for an athiest who believes in nothing but the awfulness of humanity to stomach. It doesn't help that the political/corporation corruption that Lex brings is typically given only a lukewarm take as many writers I presume cannot see past the "money bad" to speak on his more damning schemes. A show like Justice League was able to present Lex in a believable sense that he could be president, gain government trust, gain public trust and is connected and runs everyone and everything. He is a threat to Superman in terms of his political power making him invincible to punishment. He isn't just rich, he is an oligarch, but writers just want him to be Elon because that is the evil rich person of the weak. Superman just seems too complicated and hopeful for writers to grasp, leaving him with shitty adaptation after shitty adaptation that makes audience think he is shit.

Personally, I love both Batman and Superman as they work as parallels. They both are well defined and have great mythos that speak to many social problems. I just think Batman is easier to grasp and can be written from a cynical lens, whereas Superman probably needs a conservative/Christian writer, but gets stuck with deconstructionists more suited for Batman.
 
Overly Serious said:
I'll say this. Whilst the writing for Superman in various media has often been questionable, the casting has been exemplery. Tom Welling, Brandon Routh, Henry Cavill... they're all superbly qualified for the role in both looks, charm and empathy. Routh and Cavill were both cheated out of what they deserved honestly. At least Tom Welling got a really good run as Superman.

I also have an especial respect for him for his season-long role in Lucifer. Very entertaining actor.
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Do you know I'd almost forgotten he was Cain.

I think the Superman supporting cast has often been a big part of that, in the animated series Superman has almost always had an excellent Luthor to play across with Clancy Brown pretty much going without saying hut James Woods does very well too in Justice League action. I also think Smallville's casting of Michael Rosenbaum as Lex was excellent especially when acting against John Schneider as Jonathan Kent. There's also been many others, I know you're fond of Superman vs The Elite like many on here and Robin Downes was an excellent foil as Manchester (he's also Mongul in Warworld apparently, not seen that yet).

There's some excellent performances from many Superman actors but in a lot of those cases they have some excellent supporting cast to work with. Not to diminish the efforts of those who don the trunks but they need people to work with as they do so.
 
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