DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

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when the fans immediately called out the Knight was totally Jason Todd the devs outright lied and said "Nuh uh! It's a new villain!"
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Arkham Knight is similar to mass effect 3. The fan theories ended up being better than the real story. Damian Wayne being Arkham Knight would've fit the themes of the game better. The first teaser trailer, Arkham Knight, teases the father and son connection. Even DC Comics teased Damian Wayne as the new Red X and becoming a DC universe Arkham Knight. Seeing, WB canceled the Damian Wayne Batman game for Gotham knights. I wouldn't be shocked if Damian Wayne was going to be Arkham knight at one time. Hell Injustice's Damian Wayne Red Nightwing shared the same color scheme as Arkham Knight.
 
"Isn't Joker supposed to just be a normal dude besides the green hair and white skin? So like why the fuck does his blood turn other people into him? That has to be the dumbest shit I've ever heard."
It's because of the Titan formula from Asylum. I don't believe it's ever explained why the other people didn't die like Batman was before taking the cure though.
 
Damian Wayne being Arkham Knight would've fit the themes of the game better.
At least it would've had some kind of previous build up too because of Bruce's implied relationship with Talia in City. Unlike Jason who only had 2 throwaway lines more or less.
While I'm thinking about it I don't think it's ever explained whether Jason actually died or not. I think the general consensus is Joker faked killing him. But considering the Ra's Al Ghul DLC quest and how the usual versions of Jason are resurrected via Lazarus pit I guess it's whatever the fuck you want it to be. Personally I feel like that DLC was a wasted opportunity to provide more lore for Jason and thus the Arkham Knight. I think that's one of the greatest weaknesses of the game is we're kind of just expected to know who Jason is and why he now hates Batman. Which obviously if you know Red Hood you can guess I suppose but it doesn't really fix the problem. Plus as mentioned before since Joker is already dead and people think Batman did it they really needed to provide a new reason for why Jason hates Bruce but they never did.

It's because of the Titan formula from Asylum. I don't believe it's ever explained why the other people didn't die like Batman was before taking the cure though.
But why would the titan formula turn you into Joker???

Unless you're saying that somehow the titan formula mutated WITH Joker's blood or something? Which if that is the case I don't think it's ever deliberately explained which is another reason why it seemed really stupid. Literally all it would've taken was one line of dialogue. Still would've been a dumb excuse to bring Joker back but it would've been something at least.
 
Unless you're saying that somehow the titan formula mutated WITH Joker's blood or something? Which if that is the case I don't think it's ever deliberately explained which is another reason why it seemed really stupid. Literally all it would've taken was one line of dialogue. Still would've been a dumb excuse to bring Joker back but it would've been something at least.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was some executive meddling with Knight since WB execs are obsessed with treating Joker like the only villain who matters.

They will make up any bullshit excuse to include him from the Blackmask fakeout in Origins, Joker Blood, and Multiverse bullshit for Suicide Squad
 
At least it would've had some kind of previous build up too because of Bruce's implied relationship with Talia in City. Unlike Jason who only had 2 throwaway lines more or less.
While I'm thinking about it I don't think it's ever explained whether Jason actually died or not. I think the general consensus is Joker faked killing him. But considering the Ra's Al Ghul DLC quest and how the usual versions of Jason are resurrected via Lazarus pit I guess it's whatever the fuck you want it to be. Personally I feel like that DLC was a wasted opportunity to provide more lore for Jason and thus the Arkham Knight. I think that's one of the greatest weaknesses of the game is we're kind of just expected to know who Jason is and why he now hates Batman. Which obviously if you know Red Hood you can guess I suppose but it doesn't really fix the problem. Plus as mentioned before since Joker is already dead and people think Batman did it they really needed to provide a new reason for why Jason hates Bruce but they never did.
In this universe, Joker doesn’t kill Jason and instead does something more akin to the DCAU where he tortures him and tries to turn him against the Bat. That is why Jason hates Bruce, along with Bruce being an absolute moron in this universe. At least in the comics, Jason was held up for a brief period of time across the world. In this series, Jason was tortured for a year in Arkham Asylum and “The World’s Greatest Detective” couldn’t figure this out. He goes there like every Tuesday and yet never thought to check for his protege? He also never looked for a body to actually prove he was dead, just taking Joker’s word on it I guess.

But why would the titan formula turn you into Joker???
Obviously, it contains Joker’s clown aids

Honestly when I typed it I meant how Scarecrow was hyped up in Knight. Scarecrow was hyped as the main villain after years of build-up, but they made him a boring villain who just is on screens monologuing about fear in a way that's not interesting, with his defeat being the most unoriginal way to beat Scarecrow.
This still pisses me off to this day. Even barring the story, they had every opportunity to expand on Asylum’s gameplay for the fear sections and didn’t. As for the story, he is a lesser version of Strange, who was a great antagonist in City.

Scarecrow could have been the perfect follow up to the themes of the first 2 games, which got botched due to writers going full Joker wank with Origins and Knight. Asylum was a simple story about Batman keeping his morals amongst chaos. City worked as a perfect response to what those morals would lead to. Batman’s unwillingness to kill pushed the city to take a more drastic solution on crime. Knight should have been the full conclusion, the peak to how bad crime can get and maybe a look into how the Joker biting the bullet was probably a good thing. Batman should be at the brink of a moral dilemma with Scarecrow pushing the more violent Knight. The best usage for Scarecrow is when he pushes how Batman is the villain, using enough fear gas and psychology to break him. It could have been a great look into Batman’s relationship with all his villains - how he can save them, and how he can’t.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was some executive meddling with Knight since WB execs are obsessed with treating Joker like the only villain who matters.

They will make up any bullshit excuse to include him from the Blackmask fakeout in Origins, Joker Blood, and Multiverse bullshit for Suicide Squad
I don’t think so. Origins and Knight had new writers, and Joker is the easiest to write for. It would take some real balls to really expand the rogues as main villains and follow up on the themes of the previous. I don’t think they were up to the task and took the safe route. It would also explain Jason as he was a rising Batman character, so easy brownie points. Add in that they got Hamill back, which, who would waste the opportunity.

It sucks that Strange is the only real main non-Joker antagonist in the series. A case could maybe be made for Bane, but no one else really had a presence. Dini clearly wanted Scarecrow and Hush as main villains to finish out.
 
Joker is the easiest to write for.
Nah, I don't buy that for a second. There's a bunch of Batman rogues that are easy to write for if you're not looking to do something too complex. I think it's literally just WB knows people go maximum autism mode for Jonkler so including the Jinkler automatically means money. Probably not much deeper than that.
 
@Basic Blond Boy I'd like to add on that Joker really isn't that easy to write for since he could be screwed up easily by making him too much of an edgelord or hell Jared Leto's Joker is proof of that. Joker is just a money grabbing character and WB likes to milk him since he gets his own movies and even is the big highlight of Suicide Squad where they think it could save their game.
 
It seems like basically everyone is still completely missing the point of Arkham Knight and the Rocksteady trilogy in general.

It's about Batman and Joker. It's always been about Batman and Joker. And the reason Batman gives himself up in the end is because it's all but fucking spelled out for the player that Batman fears above all else Joker taking over his mind and using his immense abilities to wreck untold levels of destruction. Batman already knows that he cannot defeat the Joker within on his own so he gives himself up to Scarecrow counting on being taken over by Joker in a controlled environment where he can't really do any damage (held captive by Scarecrow) and then having Joker (in Batman's body) get dosed with fear toxin and be sufficiently weakened that Batman can wrestle control of his body back from Joker once and for all.

Like this isn't even that complicated. It's also why the Arkham Knight is a rewritten Jason Todd because he's supposed to be an example of how Joker's actions still haunt Batman from beyond the grave. This theme would not work if the Arkham Knight was Hush or Bane or (LMAO) Damian freakin' Wayne. Scarecrow is dangerous, yes, but nowhere near as dangerous as Batman himself could be if he was to turn psycho. In fact Scarecrow's entire role in the game is something that logically should have been Hugo Strange's because Hugo is the one who is actually obsessed with breaking Batman while Scarecrow never gave a shit (in fact his vendetta against Batman in the game doesn't really make sense because Batman wasn't responsible for his maiming, Killer Croc was). But instead Hugo got wasted in Arkham City (which has by far the worst plot of all the games).

It's also why Arkham Origins was focused on the Joker as the main antagonist in the second half.
 
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Batman already knows that he cannot defeat the Joker within on his own so he gives himself up to Scarecrow counting on being taken over by Joker in a controlled environment where he can't really do any damage (held captive by Scarecrow) and then having Joker (in Batman's body) get dosed with fear toxin and be sufficiently weakened that Batman can wrestle control of his body back from Joker once and for all.
So.... he just knew this would happen?

Come to think of it what the fuck does the fear toxin even have to do with joker's blood? Like, okay I get it. Turning into Joker is Batman's greatest fear apparently but why does it have any effect on the effect of Joker's blood and thus his control over Batman?

Real talk, as I said before the entire Joker blood plotline was fucking stupid. They could've still had the Joker appear but maybe purely as a byproduct of fear toxin. Maybe this new version of the toxin has a long lasting affect on Batman where his fears continue to manifest even after the more in your face effects end? He could still fear turning into a killer without any of the dumb shenanigans the blood introduced.
 
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So.... he just knew this would happen?

Come to think of it what the fuck does the fear toxin even have to do with joker's blood? Like, okay I get it. Turning into Joker is Batman's greatest fear apparently but why does it have any effect on the effect of Joker's blood and thus his control over Batman?

Real talk, as I said before the entire Joker blood plotline was fucking stupid. They could've still had the joker appear but maybe purely as a byproduct of fear toxin. He could still fear turning into a killer without any of the dumb shenanigans the blood introduced.
He knows that Scarecrow wants to break him down. When Joker takes over, he clearly delights in taunting people, so Scarecrow gets pissed and injects him again to make him shut up, which makes sense for Batman to foresee given how well he understands his villains' psychology. Batman Gambit is a common enough thing that it has its own TV Tropes page.

Fear toxin breaks down Batman's willpower and allows the Joker Within to start getting stronger. Consider the blood as basically a manifestation of Joker himself due to the effects of TITAN. Regular schmucks aren't Batman so they can't resist it as well but Bruce before Scarecrow's new toxin could and even then it was affecting him to some small degree. Hell this was hinted at in Arkham City during the Mr. Freeze boss fight.

It's not a completely flawless plot point but anything breaks down if you nitpick it hard enough and all of the Arkham games have this and to much greater degrees of stupidity than Joker's TITAN-afflicted blood. I mean this isn't even the most insane crap that Joker's biology is capable of doing if you go by other canon media.
 
To be honest I'm with you on this.
But I don't entirely mind Joker being evil incarnate. The issue is the fact that the heroes don't realistically react to him. Like I feel like even cops would make some kind of exception. Actually no, you know damn well they would make an excuse to shoot him. It's more unbelievable Joker doesn't just get gunned down by cops rather than Batman beating his ass.

Again for the sake of example Batman killing every single villain or crook would be going too far. But I don't think anyone would complain except mega autist viewers if he say, let Joker plummet to his death for instance.
Maybe I'm just tired of the whole "Hurr durr Batman needs the Joker and Joker needs the Batman." schtick. Personally I always saw it as Joker needs Batman but not the other way around. Joker is just a retard who is obsessed with the guy in the bat costume. I don't really think it's deeper than that, nor should it be. Joker is just such a deranged retard that the closest thing he has to a friend is the guy who beats his ass every night when he tries to bomb an orphanage. They almost try to liken their connection to rivals of some kind when the truth is they should be bitter enemies.

Realistically, Batman shouldn't lose a wink of sleep if Joker suddenly disappeared. Infact he should sleep better at night knowing he's out of the picture. But because of this new obsession they keep insisting on peddling I don't think that's the actual case. Every death to "Modern" Bruce is a repeat of his parents death as fucking retarded as it sounds. And I highly dislike it.
The best part of BurtonMan is he's played by Mr. Mom, a 5' 10" average looking nice guy who looks like he plays racquetball to stay in shape. Then he puts on the costume and just annihilates people without remorse. Compare that to Batfleck, who was big and had a hulking physique but wasn't half as intimidating and quickly turned into a quipping sidekick; or NirvanaMan who's a middle-aged crybaby who writes in his diary and can't get over his daddy issues.
 
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Zack Snyder using the manlet argument why DCEU Batman is better than Nolanverse Christian Bale Batman.
Based, manlets deserve to be put down at every chance. jk

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Season 1 of peacemaker no longer canon in James Gunn DCU. Get ready for another season of white man bad.
Lol, good thing I didn't watch it then, since its not canon anymore, but on a more serious note, why does it need to be decanonized?
 
Nah, I don't buy that for a second. There's a bunch of Batman rogues that are easy to write for if you're not looking to do something too complex. I think it's literally just WB knows people go maximum autism mode for Jonkler so including the Jinkler automatically means money. Probably not much deeper than that.
@Basic Blond Boy I'd like to add on that Joker really isn't that easy to write for since he could be screwed up easily by making him too much of an edgelord or hell Jared Leto's Joker is proof of that. Joker is just a money grabbing character and WB likes to milk him since he gets his own movies and even is the big highlight of Suicide Squad where they think it could save their game.
Not really meaning that he will be well-written, just that he has more flexibility. The Joker’s whole gimmick is that he is crazy and unpredictable, which allows writers to have the Jonkler do things… because. Jonkler also has the most big moments in Batman comics, so hacks like to just take things from there and put it on screen. A good example being the Robin suit in BvS that gives Batman depth because Death in The Family happened. The whole crazy and unpredictable shtick also leads into making him an edgelord as @Doctor of Autism suggested, something you can’t really do with the others too well. Knight in general has all the poor Joker writing, from scenes wasting time depicting famous stories (Killing Joke and Death in The Family) to overly edgelord garbage in most of his files. He is the Lex of the IP, a character that can be boiled down to be way simpler than he actually is just to justify plot and because he is a mega icon the series cannot escape.

In contrast, it seems harder to mold a story centered around the other villains, especially a big game plot, as they don't bring as much. Penguin has no fun gimmicks, Two-Face/Freeze cannot leave his initial origin story, Riddler is an absolute pain, Catwoman isn't really a villain, Croc is too one-track mind, Ivy is too isolationist, etc.. As for the Arkham series itself, it already wasted Bane, who was a heavy hitter that could carry a plot, along with much of the League of Assassins. Scarecrow should be a heavy hitter, but somehow always comes out terrible as he gets boiled down to his toxin, which is almost always poorly implemented. Hush is another that could have carried, but is too unknown compared to Jonkler.

The other villains feel like they need more effort or thought to make them big threats, whereas Joker gets it naturally due to history.
 
Compare that to Batfleck, who was big and had a hulking physique but wasn't half as intimidating and quickly turned into a quipping sidekick
I think part of it is the fact that Burton Batman actually kind of comes across as a fucking psycho. Plus it's a bit more subtle with it. It doesn't try too hard with it.
I think this scene demonstrates it perfectly.
He enjoys being Batman, running around, beating up criminals. It's literally all BurtMan has going on in his life. Whenever he's not Batman he's just sitting around in his mansion moping like a depressed faggot. But the second that bat signal comes on, oh boy! Here I go killing again! A switch is flipped.

Hilariously enough it demonstrates the whole idea of "Batman is just as insane as the people he goes after" perfectly without trying too hard.
 
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