Battlefield2142EU
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DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups
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They should just rename it to "The Peacemaker"
That will fix everything
Seriously, though, go fuck yourself Gunn. You either do a total reboot or you don't. I get you like John Cena but just fucking cast him as someone else or something.
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Is it weird that Steve Ditko's ability to piss off woke losers even "beyond the grave" as you said has only endeared him and his work to me more?
ArthuriusMartyrius
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You know I was going to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt and assume he just got misquoted but no, he legit said that Affleck is better because he is taller and more "intimidating" because apparently perspective shots are something beyond his comprehension.
And then he went into a super-gay tangent about how he liked Batman's hands being too big to hold a gun in The Dark Knight Returns. Bruh...
Battlefield2142EU
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I noticed the Restore the Synderverse fans have a hate boner for Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale Batman. Especially the Indian fans
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I started watching the first one and noped out when the guy talked about Ayn Rand being upset at losing her wealth and privilege. Yes, seeing communists breaking into your father's little high-street chemist and smashing the windows in as you, a young girl, hide, is not at all something that should get in the way of you realising that Communism is good and proper and it was your fault you were terrified. I might watch more for comedy value.
The Question is one of my favourite comic book heroes. Or at least the one I can most relate to.
But on the subject of Keaton-Batman, I said similar to Zack Snyder earlier. Not about Batfleck as I didn't really enjoy his version that much but I feel similarly about Keaton. Whilst he actually looks tougher now that he's older than he did back then, I don't think he has the physical presence to be Batman. Maybe part of it is just that I'm 6'1" and bigger than Keaton in real life but he just doesn't look big enough. He can act, I could see him being psychotic enough to hurt someone. But not go toe to toe with multiple gangsters. People might think of Robert Pattinson as "Twilight" dude, but he's over 6' and in great shape. And at 37 he's old enough that you can believe he's got a lot of training and experience but young enough that you can still believe he's in his physical prime. His Batman is more the detective but he can pull off the physicality. He also looks lean and quick which I think suits the character better than hulking like Batfleck. He's the same emphasis as the Keaton Batman but does it better.
ArthuriusMartyrius
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Kneejerk reactions to someone flatly pointing out that Ayn Rand's political views were informed by her family's pharmaceutical business being nationalized result in missing out quite a lot of interesting stuff.
As for the complaints about Keaton, it reminds me of when people complained that Adam West looked fat and out-of-shape as Batman when he was in fact in very good physical shape for a man of his age. You don't need to look built to be a lethal fighting machine.
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Well like I say, I might watch more of it later but you're (deliberately) eliding a lot of the video's judgemental overtone when you phrase it like that. There's a very different impression created between "Ayn Rand was upset at losing her wealth and privilege" and "As a young girl she saw communists come in and smashed up her father's chemist shop". You're deliberately slanting things when you say "her familiy's pharmaceutical business was nationalised" yourself. Just as you are when you start talking about "knee jerk reactions". The video dude is very clearly grinding an axe which immediately makes any sensible person question anything else that follows. People with axes to grind seldom give balanced information.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Adam West didn't need to look like a lethal fighting machine though, did he?
And you're not seriously suggesting that you watched the 1984 movie and thought Keaton looked like "a lethal fighting machine" because I don't believe you.
Quarterback Rex Grossman
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Are we now pretending Bale and Pattison looked like lethal fighting machines? The former looked like a pasty Brit pretending to be tough while the latter is a weepy twink.
And yes, when Keaton was in the suit and had the Batmobile and other cool things he looked dope as hell. The other two did not. Batfleck did at times but they ruined his look in The Flash (but made up for it with WW's tiny little skirt). The Tumbler looked like a piece of trash on wheels, and his hoverbat or whatever it was called looked straight up retarded. Pattison only had a car, a damn regular car.
Also Pattison killed like eighty people during that freeway chase, which he instigated. How do people watch that then turn around and pretend like Batman doesn't kill? It's worse than Bale's "I don't have to save you" when he put the guy in that situation in the first place by destroying the tracks.
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I don't know what your standards for "weepy twink" are but he looks pretty solid to me. And frankly, I find that sort of lean gymnastic physique more effective than Ben Affleck's 56 year old slightly roided look.
And yeah, when he lays into that thug in the subway, it's pretty visceral.
As to Christian Bale, you're the only one who's brought him up but yeah, the guy can fill out the suit. He's 6' and buff. Pattinson is 6'1" and Affleck 6'2". I think Pattinson looks the most like an actual fighter but all three of them are respectably built and handle the action acceptably. Keaton isn't a manlet but no way does he look like - what was your term? - a lethal fighting machine. Especially at the age he was in the Burton movies. Nor is the combat menacing. It's not meant to be - it's cartoonish. The Adam West Batman is also cartoonish (again, you're the only person who brought him up) but that's not even comparable to other entries in the franchise, it's so wildly different in intent. Adam West is my favourite Batman in a category of his own. You're discussing Keaton in the category of the others and it's silly for you to try and big him up whilst calling the noticeably larger and more athletic Robert Pattinson "a wimpy twink".
This is a silly conversation - Keaton just doesn't look physically imposing. At least not back then. He's aged into it a bit better with more recent roles.
In a stylised fun Burton way, sure. I like Edward Scissor Hands as well. But that doesn't make Keaton physically imposing. And the fact I can visibly see him turning his entire torso around to look at someone because he can't move his head in that giant rubber condom doesn't help. I like the guy, I enjoy his acting. But you ain't going to pull off an argument that he looks like he can beat up a sequence of violent thugs.
When the scream of that thing's turbine started up following by the revs of the engine and the headlights came on, there was an audible excitement shot round the cinema when I saw it. That thing sounded like a beast with the cinema speakers (and pretty darn awesome on my home cinema set up as well). But regardless, whatever tangent you're going off on it's nothing to do with my point. I liked the Pattinson Batmobile. It fit the tone of the movie, was more plausible and you don't like it. No problem, irrelevant to anything I've said. You're just trying to have some generic "this film good, that film sucks" conversation. Feel free to continue it as long as you enjoy yourself.
Again, not sure what this has to do with me. Though I do recall the Keaton Batman sticking a bomb in someone's trousers and having a big smile about it.
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Hold on a second... something is... familiar here.
Oh my god. DEEPEST LORE
I know it's probably an edit okay. I couldn't resist.
But it does make me think so in a desperate attempt to make this not a 100% meme post, who do you think would be a good Batman actor? If you could pick any actor who hasn't already played Batman, who would it be?
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Quarterback Rex Grossman
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The thug he punches like thirty times because he's so weak he can't take him out in one hit like Batfleck or even Keaton could? Yeah very visceral. I like at the end how he gets roided up on adrenaline and beats that one thug for like a minute straight and doesn't even bloody his nose. A real killer that one.
TheAmbiguousLurker
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@Overly Serious
I find it outrageous that you'd highlight the songs from Brave and the Bold and NOT mention Aquaman's Rousing Song of Heroism.
On the topic of Knight, I fucking hate how damn underwhelming the final confrontation is. It's just a series of 'Shit happens, just cus'. Batman is somehow forced to give himself up because of the most basic bitch hostage set up by Scarecrow, Batman is somehow rendered useless by being strapped to a gurney without his utility belt, Batman gets juiced up with even more fear toxin and seemingly gives in to the Joker aids... But then he doesn't. 'Cus he's Batman.
I find it outrageous that you'd highlight the songs from Brave and the Bold and NOT mention Aquaman's Rousing Song of Heroism.
On the topic of Knight, I fucking hate how damn underwhelming the final confrontation is. It's just a series of 'Shit happens, just cus'. Batman is somehow forced to give himself up because of the most basic bitch hostage set up by Scarecrow, Batman is somehow rendered useless by being strapped to a gurney without his utility belt, Batman gets juiced up with even more fear toxin and seemingly gives in to the Joker aids... But then he doesn't. 'Cus he's Batman.
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Honestly, this isn't a game I'm good at. For me, the directing and the writing are the first steps and Reeves did such a good job imo on both of those that swapping in someone else is a slightly secondary consideration, so long as they can tick off the boxes of looking the part and being a competent actor. I was very happy with Robert Pattinson. If required to try and think of someone who might be good but hasn't played it yet, Armie Hammer can act okay-ish and has the physical presence. But I like my Batman to be stealthy and a little bit of a ninja. He's probably too big.
I think you see what you want to see. Look again, he's literally got that guy in an armlock and keeps him upright just so he can punch him some more. And then when he's on the ground he punches the guy a few more times. The multiple punches are because he wants to and to intimidate the others. But your mind wont change on this no matter what. People fall down in one punch with the Keaton Batman because the director wants them to, not because it looks like they should. Rewatch the chemical plant scene for example and see him do a backfist into someone's face from behind a drum which would more surprise someone than hurt them. His body doesn't move, nothing below his elbow moves. The only power is a raising backwards of the forearm. But you can see the actor jump backwards and fall over on queue. You make yourself look like an idiot trying to say Keaton has more physical presence because "he can take him out in one hit".
It's bright green and we're not told what it is. Could be a hint of venom.
Another thing I really like in the Reeve's movie is Penguin. Colin Ferrel is understated but really very good. In the Batmobile chase (which doesn't "kill eighty people", btw, we see vehicles overturned and some scrapes but nothing you can point to and out and out say someone died), I love the way Penguin is initially laughing and almost enjoying the chase. "This guy's nuts!" and he laughs. It's only as it gets worse Penguin actually starts to get scared. He's a fun character and I'm looking forward to the tie in series.
It crossed my mind but I didn't want to just post all the songs from the show so I had to pick just a few. And though that's one of my favourite episodes the song works best in the context of that episode. For anyone who doesn't know, Captain Atom (who is a dick in the show) loses his powers and has to learn a lesson about what really makes a hero. Which he sort of learns. Honestly that's one of my favourite things about B:tBatB - it has really good solid morality and it's not a shamed of that. Another of my favourite episodes is also an Aquaman one in which he and his family go on vacation and Aquaman keeps sneaking off to fight crime behind his family's back. He's truly one of the best characters in the series.
Battlefield2142EU
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New rumors that James Gunn got the Batman 2 canceled to push his Batman in the DCU.
Quarterback Rex Grossman
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That makes it even worse. Dude has the punching power of a cat making biscuits.
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I really, really hope not. Gunn produces so-so formulaic suphero stuff. GotG was his high-point. Reeve's The Batman was beautifully shot and genuinely felt different to both DCU and MCU movies. I also really want to see more of his Joker.
Reeves also clearly genuinely is into the Batman mythos because the 'easter eggs' such as they were, were not just some slapped on background details by committee but woven into the script. The little bits about "Hush" for example. I also really like that Reeves portrays Batman with a degree of realism. I'm not talking about turning giant hulking Bane into a normal scale man or things like that, I'm talking about how his Batman plans his activities out in meticulous detail, knowing that the reality is he can't actually be everywhere or just jump in without planning, but actually studies the criminals, the crimes and focuses on how he can cause the most fear and superstition. His Batman is two years since his debut and still learning and very aware of the risks.
What particularly shows is that Reeves is both the co-writer and director of the film. That really helps bring out a vision. If Gunn has done this I will be pissed off.
Well thankfully, his sequel is coming out this October 4, the exact same date as the first one five years prior
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I think DC's just giving Gunn the keys because he's able to give reliable watchable superhero stuff without turning into Snyder or fucking up worldbuilding.
I do hope they keep Reeves. If Gunn at least tries to work with him, it could be fun.
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- Oct 20, 2019
You're more optimistic than I am. The only outcome I can see from Gunn sticking his fingers in Reeve's pot is messing with it for the worse. Reeves is, frankly, much more to my tastes as a director and far more interesting. Gunn is certainly able to give reliably standard and predictable output and that probably is DC's logic. In fact, you're almost certainly right that it is. But I think they're wrong if they think they can bank on that. It's oft-said but people are getting bored of cape shit. It's not so much superheroes specifically but everything is so formula and single tone. Reeve's movie was the most significant break with DCU and MCU tones in a long time. Unless you're counting the Todd Phillip's Joker movie which is not really a superhero movie except in the most tangential way.
Hollywood is the most risk averse industry there is. I'd say airline manufacturers are but you know... Boeing. All they're going to see with yet another Gunn movie is lower revenue than expected and all we'll see is something that doesn't surprise in any meaningful way and another round articles titled "Are people getting tired of the Superhero Genre?" and "Superhero movies are not the problem." Ad infinitem.
They would rather the certain mild disappointment of another Gunn movie than the risk of greatness with the Reeves sequel. Not even that big a risk. The Batman did pretty well commercially and people who saw it seemed to have reacted very positively, other than a handful of butthurt people who Keaton in the 80s was a more convincing killing machine because he sticks bombs down people's trousers. So an untouched Reeve's sequel would almost certainly do very well.
But I fear Gunn will either sideline the movie or interfere with it. Nobody becomes a successful Hollywood director without a big ego and belief in their amazing wisdom. And absolutely Gunn doesn't want a whole load of comparisons between the two Batman movies if they look unfavourable to him. Which seems likely. Few people want more Batfleck or Batfleck-lite. Lots are very keen to see more Reeves Batman, Ferrel Penguin and (meow!) Kravitz catwoman. Reeves wrote an entirely new script from scratch for that movie. Ben Affleck's original script was reportedly a big action movie likened to a James Bond movie. We really lucked out when he left the project. Reeves said he drew influence from Chinatown, the story of the Zodiac Killer and some other interesting sources. He gave us something really different to what we would have had - another generic capeshit movie.
But there are two tie-in TV shows planned, two sequels and the movie is / was intended to be the basis of a shared universe (as all movies post-Marvel must be :/ ). That creates a competitor to Gunn's work. So to bring things back to the start, that's why I'm very fearful of any involvement Gunn has with the movie. If he doesn't try to kill it entirely.
Huh, what? I linked to the Reeves Joker. Did you think i was talking about the Joachim Phoenix Joker? I thought that was an interesting movie and I enjoyed it. Phoenix was good as usual. But I'm not that stoked about the sequel. I would love to see the Reeves Joker as feels quite menacing. The Phoenix Joker you mostly just feel sorry for.