DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Basic Blond Boy]

Don't know why I didn't think of those two - yes, they probably are. And given that she has drifted so far into being a "hero", Harley Quinn probably outpaces all the other heroines on the roster. (You may now weep).

You probably forgot as TT barely matters in the grand scheme of DC comics, which is funny given how much it matters outside of the comics. To put it into perspective, Dick marries Starfire, yet I don't think Starfire has ever interacted with Bruce.

It took the shitty Apocalypse movie to finally pair Rachel and Clark together, and unsurprisingly the duo of boy scout and girl with daddy issues is actually a good one.

 

[Humble Architect]

You probably forgot as TT barely matters in the grand scheme of DC comics, which is funny given how much it matters outside of the comics. To put it into perspective, Dick marries Starfire, yet I don't think Starfire has ever interacted with Bruce.

It took the shitty Apocalypse movie to finally pair Rachel and Clark together, and unsurprisingly the duo of boy scout and girl with daddy issues is actually a good one.

That was the best part, Clark and Raven doing their best Joel and Ellie impression.

The Superman parts of that movie are great, getting depowered, humiliated, led his friends into a massacre and still had time to save someone. Then, years later, Raven is the first one to come to his defense when Clark was clearly going to let John tear into him.

Then he gets his powers back and goes full “Kal-L vs Antimonitor” on Darkseid.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

That was the best part, Clark and Raven doing their best Joel and Ellie impression.

The Superman parts of that movie are great, getting depowered, humiliated, led his friends into a massacre and still had time to save someone. Then, years later, Raven is the first one to come to his defense when Clark was clearly going to let John tear into him.

Then he gets his powers back and goes full “Kal-L vs Antimonitor” on Darkseid.

DC really misses the mark compared to their adaptations in letting the younger characters interact with the JL. The sidekicks mostly get stuck in the trap of only interacting within their IP or amongst themselves.

The Batman-Supergirl relationship is honestly another really sweet yet rarely utilized pairing outside of content like Injustice 2 or the Batman/Superman comics and movie adaptations. Also, on the topic of Supergirl and the Batman IP, Kara and Barbra rarely interact outside of adaptations for supposedly being best friends.

As a third, Supergirl and Green Arrow were a fun match within the DCAU.

No really, why does Supergirl work so well with practically everyone, yet if you want to find stories of her intermixing with the JL, they are non-existent.

Getting off Supergirl, it is pretty obvious that Raven and Starfire should be around Clark and Bruce more often. Starfire was Dick's wife, Bruce really should have gotten to know her, assuming he isn't written as a total a-hole. Starfire also has the alien thing to bond with Clark over. Then with Raven, we obviously have the Last of Us thing with Clark, and I am sure she can brood with Bruce.

Flash is weird in that he would be the exact sort of person who would hang around the Titans for the day, even just to see Wally, yet never does.

I know Young Justice can be sort of controversial, but I genuinely think it had the right idea in having more of the older heroes actively involved in the teens' lives. Batman acting as a mentor to all of them just works as he was always built to be a father figure character. I also liked seeing others like Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, and even someone like Zatara all taking time out to really train these kids

 

[Humble Architect]

Batman and Kara in “The Supergirl from Krypton” was nice, especially the movie version, cause it’s Conroy before he lost passion for the character and there’s that warmth at the end when she tells him the names.

Superman ironically didn’t like Starfire, as shown in Public Enemies.

I liked KC’s background lore, where Bruce called every xenobiologist he could and dumped a fortune into trying to save Kori, this during a time where him and Dick weren’t on speaking terms. Then Nightstar ends up among her grandfather’s followers, leaving the battle with Dick and saving her dad when it mattered most. Much better than canon Bruce calling Starfire “the alien,” Batman is best when he’s just as compassionate as Superman, he just loses sight of it sometimes.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

I think it's at least worth pointing out the Linda Carter WW series was a pretty big deal in the day.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

There's been so much good discussion lately, guys, I wanna address so much. But as someone huge into the "meta" of superheroes in AND out of universe, this stuck out at me:

Robin (Dick) is the third of the Trinity (also Spider-Man) because he was there early on and he was the audience avatar, that kid being given guidance by his heroes, ultimately embodying the best of Superman and Batman. It’s why he got his own team, by extension, a “world” like Batman and Superman have in their separate books.

You probably forgot as TT barely matters in the grand scheme of DC comics, which is funny given how much it matters outside of the comics. To put it into perspective, Dick marries Starfire, yet I don't think Starfire has ever interacted with Bruce.

Not only do I agree Dick!Robin (forgive me both for tumblr-typing AND the bad wordplay there) is an A-lister of his own accord in both in-universe and the real world, but.... but realizing the Teen Titans are essentially his world the way the main/eternally-selling solo book heroes (Supes, Bats, Wondy, Flash, Lantern) have one just woke me up. THAT'S what the Titans are at heart, huh? Robin's corner of the DCU. Makes so much more sense now since a Robin's always been the series lead of any given Titans series. Man. It makes so much sense now. You guys certainly gave me food for thought, hahaha.

When it comes to Wondy, I 100% agree she is clearly an A-lister in-and-out of universe, clearly sells comics (yes) and merch, and can entirely handle the magic and mythology corner of the DCU in a streamlined one... just that Mystery Spy is completely on the ball in that while she is obviously A-list she isn't really the S-tier that Supes, Bats, and Spidey are. Probably on the level of Captain America, Iron Man or Hulk.

EDIT: Also, Robin held a longtime lead strip in the Star-Spangled Comics anthology book for years, was leading Titans from the 60s and especially its explosion in the 80s, and Dick as Nightwing and our new guy Tim got a Robin series in the 1990s each. I feel like he's been both either headlining an anthology book OR starring in a continuous solo book longer than Aquaman has on both accords, and that guy's supposed to be a solo book A-lister on par with his fellow JL charter members outside Martian Manhunter (who I argue is explicitly THE JL team character).

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

The REAL big 3 of DC are Power Girl and her titties. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

the fact DC hasn't given Sydney Sweeney a $20 million dollar paycheck and fast tracked a power girl movie is insane, I would have done that pretty much by the time season 1 of Euphoria released. the plot doesn't matter, the cgi doesn't matter, it could literally just be Sydney in a cheap cosplay costume it would make a shitload of money very easily, Look how much money her last stupid movie made. If you make it R and guarantee some titties you'll make more than a half billion.

 

[el bandito loco]

Outside of continuity, Spider-Man is the third, the successor, rounding out the origins and loose theme.

Spider-Man is kind of interesting from the jump because as far as Superman as the archetypal superhero Spidey was essentially the first successful deconstruction of that. the thesis statement of early spidey essentially boils down to what if Superman, but he sucks (in an interesting and relatable way)

it basically takes all the then current mid silver age superman tropes and flips them. Instead of just being inherently good, he is an entitled selfish prick who uses his powers for gain until he learns his lessons. he works at a newspaper, but not the star reporter famous guy. he's got Jimmy Olsen's shitty job. the world doesn't love him, his job doesn't promote every time he saves the day, they make him out to be the bad guy and average people are scared of him. his father figure died explicitly because he fucked up, instead of stringing 2 women in love with him along with an almost weird asexual attitude with pranks and shit he's involved in serious love triangles and doesn't know what to do. Instead of the hero being him and the secret identity the mask it's flipped, he isn't guaranteed to win no matter what, he gets his ass kicked. Instead of just fucking around all day with his friends doing goofy shit like superboy was he's also a teenager and has to deal with actual shit in school and the fact he has very little friends and is an unlikable dick and has to move past that.

I feel like Spider-Man never gets the credit for occupying that specific role. Early Marvel Universe is credited for making superhero comics more interesting by adding more serialized story telling and slightly more realistic characters but the way they accomplished that was basically just early deconstruction without falling into the later post dark knight and watchmen trap of it has to be flat out dark. It did that while still being fun superhero books.

 

[Humble Architect]

@Mayor Cody Travers It was an epiphany for me too, but once you see it you can’t unsee it.

Dick grows up, like his adoptive father and his uncle/role model, he gets his own world, when getting his mantle from Superman. He gets an exotic LI, a cast, villians and the implication that he’s leading the future, leaving that path to follow, also like his mentors. It’s even a mix of Batman’s darkness and Superman’s sci-fi fantasy shenanigans.

I liked in KC that iconic “round table” cover, where Superman is at the end, on his right side, Kara, on his left, Dick. It’s a small but great detail that the OG sidekicks are next to him while the League stands behind him, acknowledging who truly came first and what has (consistently) been shown to matter more to Clark.

 

[el bandito loco]

@Mayor Cody Travers It was an epiphany for me too, but once you see it you can’t unsee it.

Dick grows up, like his adoptive father and his uncle/role model, he gets his own world, when getting his mantle from Superman. He gets an exotic LI, a cast, villians and the implication that he’s leading the future, leaving that path to follow, also like his mentors. It’s even a mix of Batman’s darkness and Superman’s sci-fi fantasy shenanigans.

I liked in KC that iconic “round table” cover, where Superman is at the end, on his right side, Kara, on his left, Dick. It’s a small but great detail that the OG sidekicks are next to him while the League stands behind him, acknowledging who truly came first and what has (consistently) been shown to matter more to Clark.

this is exactly why when Dark Crisis ended and people were like wow Nightwing as the face of the DC Universe! That's crazy, I was like no it isn't, are you retarded? of course he is! beyond the meta he's the archetypal superhero sidekick and first born son of the next generation past our "main" heroes, just in universe he's the logical next leader if the JLA actually stepped down in some capacity. Now of course they didn't do anything with that and the event to lead to that revelation was terrible, but if there ever was any real growth in the DC Universe that's what you do.

 

[Humble Architect]

this is exactly why when Dark Crisis ended and people were like wow Nightwing as the face of the DC Universe! That's crazy, I was like no it isn't, are you retarded? of course he is! beyond the meta he's the archetypal superhero sidekick and first born son of the next generation past our "main" heroes, just in universe he's the logical next leader if the JLA actually stepped down in some capacity. Now of course they didn't do anything with that and the event to lead to that revelation was terrible, but if there ever was any real growth in the DC Universe that's what you do.

Exactly, I reject the Morrison “The Dynasty of the House of El will forever lead the JUSTICE GODS OF EARTH, CENTRE OF THE MULTIVERSE. SUPERMAN PRIME WILL WATCH OVER AND LEAD US INTO THE SUN.”

Cause that’s fucking gay

I like my heroes human, Superman’s bloodline is one in a billion (Jon), his lineage isn’t gonna nepo-hire lead forever, Nightwing is the true heir to both legacies, Bruce’s mind tempered with Clark’s optimism.

Personally I don’t like Superman and Lois having a kid, I think it hits harder if they’re one of those perfect couples who simply can’t have kids, it’s always the saddest thing and it makes Kara’s arrival and Conner’s creation more special. I like the Earth-2, “Clark and Lois raised Kara as their own” repeating the cycle of his parents.

A couple casts their child into the stars, relying on the kindness of strangers and their faith in their fellow man is rewarded.

Superman having some crazy bloodline is dumb and moves him away from the “working man who just happens to have gifts” mentality that makes the character appealing.

 

[el bandito loco]

Exactly, I reject the Morrison “The Dynasty of the House of El will forever lead the JUSTICE GODS OF EARTH, CENTRE OF THE MULTIVERSE. SUPERMAN PRIME WILL WATCH OVER AND LEAD US INTO THE SUN.”

that's all a holdover he pulled from the 1970s Superman books he didn't come up with any of it. I like that shit conceptually but I'd prefer it to be less literal. essentially the legion of superheroes being Kal El's legacy is good enough for me. maybe Conner and Kara continue the family line. I also prefer the idea if Superman HAS to have a direct child maybe him and Wonder Woman or somebody did like 400 years from now when Lois has been dead forever. but he's better off without one but having a legacy in his more adopted family he fosters.

as far as end of Superman stories I prefer something more along the lines of Luthor's Gift where long long into the future he's no longer needed on Earth because there are generations of heroes who followed him and so Superman is just out in Space doing whatever it is he does, just travelling. although I can leave everything else about that story where it's revealed through some science shit Lex had made Lois fall in love with Superman in the first place or something that's retarded but I do like the idea the following generations have come so far and the Legion is there having followed his example that he just sort of goes off to become a myth once there is nothing left for him there and he's presumably doing what he always did just in places where they have no other heroes.

 

[Frosted Snowflakes]

So get this. Two soyboys name Julio Anta and Jacoby Salcedo made a Blue Beetle comic called This Land Is Our Land, and they made Jeremy of Geeks + Gamers the villain, calling him and other YouTube ranters "Neo-Nazis". Why does DC Comics approve of this?


And here are the two soyboy beta cucks in their cuckfaced glory.

 

[Humble Architect]

that's all a holdover he pulled from the 1970s Superman books he didn't come up with any of it. I like that shit conceptually but I'd prefer it to be less literal. essentially the legion of superheroes being Kal El's legacy is good enough for me. maybe Conner and Kara continue the family line. I also prefer the idea if Superman HAS to have a direct child maybe him and Wonder Woman or somebody did like 400 years from now when Lois has been dead forever. but he's better off without one but having a legacy in his more adopted family he fosters.

as far as end of Superman stories I prefer something more along the lines of Luthor's Gift where long long into the future he's no longer needed on Earth because there are generations of heroes who followed him and so Superman is just out in Space doing whatever it is he does, just travelling. although I can leave everything else about that story where it's revealed through some science shit Lex had made Lois fall in love with Superman in the first place or something that's retarded but I do like the idea the following generations have come so far and the Legion is there having followed his example that he just sort of goes off to become a myth once there is nothing left for him there and he's presumably doing what he always did just in places where they have no other heroes.

Pretty much, I don’t like the idea of him being a legacy hero either. Superman should be the first, the path to follow, there’s thousands of heroes but one of him, the Last Son of Krypton. I hate, hate other kryptonians with the exception of Kara existing and she’s pushing it most of the time, in the modern stuff at least. If there has to be other kryptonians I prefer him being the “top of the food chain” due to being Earthborn and growing up saturated in yellow sunlight.

But with his cast, I prefer the “adopted family” over the biological, Lois the love of his life, Kara as their surrogate kid, Bruce is the edgy twin brother, the Legion as his legacy, Jimmy is the dorky little bro and so on.

I like that “dignified sadness” in Superman, with Batman they beat you over the head with it, but with Superman there’s the obvious, he is the last of his kind, try as he might he isn’t human and will outlive everything and everyone, Lois will age and he will stop at 40 (50 because of stress) and that loneliness he felt as a kid? That’s forever.

He doesn’t let the inevitable keep him down though, he doesn’t let it all in and listen to people being shitty 24/7, he stands up like a man and goes to work every morning and is content to wear the trappings of a human because that’s how he was raised. That’s the Superman I like.

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

You guys activated my 'tism on Superman. Some stuff I spoke of before, some is new. Here goes long walls of text:

Spoiler: Thoughts on his rogues' gallery.

-Once again: the overarching theme for Superman's rogue galleries should be Enemies of Humanity Today, versus the Man of Tomorrow.
-Most of these guys have obvious strength, durability, and flight or power armor and genius intelligence, I'll try to note differences between them to give them some variety within these obvious stock powers to tango with Superman - and they SHOULD, Superman INVENTED the action-packed superhero strip, it's literally in the name of his debut comics and old nickname of "the Action Ace".
-Most of these guys need motivation besides "'hate Superman." I mean they do! If they kill him they'll be overjoyed! But they'll then continue their motivation, rampages, or greed ANYWAYS. They need a reason to be villains and continuing reason why Superman in specific is the guy able to continuously stop them.
-Clark, Kara, and Zod should be the only surviving Kryptonians, and I like both the idea of Supes being the strongest between them both naturally (farmboy strength, yo) but from all that yellow sunlight as well. So much endless crap from Krypton keeps coming in when Clark should be focusing on cool stuff in the present day and in today's world.
-I do like Zod knowing all the Silver/Bronze Age Kryptonian martial arts they made up as a fun reference, I imagine him versus Clark equivalent to a Cody Travers vs Rolento fight in Street Fighter (Alpha 3 is your best bet), with Zod flipping all around thanks to his newfound powers in conjunction with his training ,and Clark equivalent to a boxer/farmboy brawler in turn but much more in tune with yellow sun-granted powers like flying, laser eyes, etc. Zod's here to Make Earth Krypton Again and collects idiot Earthmen to supplement whatever Phantom Zone criminals (preferably none) as his troops. Make him represent totalitarianism and militarism at its worst.
-Brainiac should have no connection to Krypton or was their supercomputer or whatever. He can collect Kandor if it's an appropriate timeline but that's about it. He should've started off as a biological alien that wanted to know everything and through endless re-cloning, uploading his mind endlessly into AI, etc. became as soulless as expected and his motivation to ending or encapsulating all life so he will know everything, forever, in perfect unchanging order. Superman is the first guy able to stop him, and the first to make him feel emotion that he hasn't in eons... incidentally, he's the Ra's al-Ghul of Superman and demands longer-form, high-concept stories by default. Let his main power besides "genius" being tentacles of sorts, be they biological or tech like Doc Ock's to supplement whatever super strength he's engineered for himself.
-Lex as I said in posts earlier in this thread and others should be DC's Dr. Doom equivalent. THE villain versus THE hero. Dude should be able to do anything and have it make sense under his guise of leading humanity into a true golden age at the cost of its soul. CEO as his startpoint, becomes the mad criminal scientist on the run ever after, but could casually pull through legal loopholes to take back Lexcorp whenever the writer wants him there for a bit. It's Lex, he just knows how to do shit like that. His main power besides "genius" should be the power armor suit. Toyman may be the better engineer, Metallo's metal body stronger than his armor, Brainiac a better biologist, but.... he is not only second place to each but can do all of that versus their specialties alone.
-Metallo should be the one thing consistently stronger than Supes but oddly self-aware he's continuously defeated. But he's a pure sadist. His stories should be about how much he's gonna get away with before Superman kicks his ass. He can't feel anything, so all the pleasure he gets is from wrecking shit. Yanno Cain from Robocop 2? Yeah. He's simply sadism made, ah, metal.
-Toyman's the best engineer in the DCU but grew up so rejected and dejected he's basically an incel and leading the 4chan beta revolution - dude simply cannot move on, he's rejection's consequences made flesh. In spite of his ability to make billions with his engineering hyper-genius, that pain is ingrained in him so much he'd rather burn down Metropolis in revenge anyways. And he's a manchild. Less toy biplanes or wooden puppets and a lot more sleek miniature fighter jets and creepy metallic little robot men, looks like the fat chud in an army outfit than the thin court jester.
-Silver Banshee should just represent the worst of cultism and growing up with shitty beliefs. Not much else to say there. Keep her on the more evil side by making her truly believe her beliefs are correct and must be implemented on society.
-Atomic Skull should be the version that got kicked out of STAR Labs. Has a wilting death aura around him and throw out radioactive blasts from experimentation gone wrong. Dude literally will do anything to continue his scientific work - four eyes, no soul. Represents science at all costs with zero ethics.
-Parasite should be greed. Dude knows he could die anytime, anywhere, and will whore himself out to gangs or go get something he wants since he can kill people for a burst of life. Literally gives no shits on anyone but himself. Naturally better specimens like healthy humans or Superman is best, but he's simply out to live it up much as he can. Selfish asshole.
-Livewire's just out there to cause chaos. What a bitch! Strong enough in electrokinesis to jolt Superman, of course.
-Manchester Black is nihilism. Powerful enough telekinesis to be a worthwhile match to Superman. Seriously, lean in on that nihilism and cynicism more. Have him just wrecking shit claiming nothing matters. Not even in a self-centered way like Parasite or Livewire, dude just wants to tear it all down like a brat.
-Doomsday should just represent how brutal nature is or something. Always evolving, acts like a wild animals, just a force of nature.
-Conduit has a death aura like I read he has and has it out for Clark to where he could be Batman and he'd not care he just wants Clark dead, Luminous has hard light constructs and is a selfish twat who's self-pitying into a life of crime when his obsession with Lois goes south, and Prankster per Kurt Busiek is great as a Krusty the Klown equivalent who goes into crime for attention and whores himself out to others for distraction. Just petty jerks, even if you have jealousy (Conduit), obsession (Luminous), and attention-whoring (Prankster) as their specific bits.
-The majority of the above, even ones like Zod or Toyman or Atomic Skull, should have gangs or henchmen scooped up to help distract Supes or achieve their specific story goal. They mostly control organized crime by now in Metropolis. The remaining "normal/human" gangsters and criminals merge into a singular large Intergang under Bruno Mannheim when you wanna do some old-school investigative criminal stories with Clark Kent, reporter.

Spoiler: Supporting characters and how they play out.

-Jimmy Olsen is the cub reporter equivalent in the early years and becomes a Philip J Fry equivalent in "the present'" the viewpoint character who got used to the madness but still finds cool stuff to be viewpoint to. Works as the clickbait content generator to give him an excuse to get into weird adventures. I like Morrison's idea he's Clark's bro as much as Superman's Pal, I can see him assuming he's gotta show his big dorky older bro Clark what's hip when waves at who the real dork is.
-Bizarro should be a Super-family member after the requisite fight with Supes, since he is truly good at heart, but with appropriately opposite powers. Strength but no durability with an amazing healing factor to make up for it. No flight, but jumping hella high. Fire breath. Imagine him and Jimmy watching his arm get sliced, scream, sigh in relief when it instantly grows back.... slice it again, wash, repeat. Those two would be comedic like that.
-Perry should be a father figure Clark talks to who steadies his sense of morality. Always willing to publish the truth, a guy who asks "is this fair and just?"
-Lois should be a Stacy and should figure it out re: Clark, but is in denial to herself and needs that smoking gun to convince... herself. And she's a good soul, she isn't gonna freak out learning the truth, why would she? Superman's fuckin' Superman, Clark probably volunteers at the animal shelter, she's not gonna hate either of them!
-Metropolis should be a cross of art deco and modern glassy fanciness. But Lexcorp's building should be Lex's face on front of the entrance with L's everywhere like that Mussolini face with Si's. Just enough weird architecture like from the movie of the city's name, you know? Metropolis needs to be a city of adventure, a place even a Superman should get lost and find weird stuff in.
-Clark Kent in public should be less nervous nellie n' coward and more just a happy dork. Stress on "dork." And he should definitely play it up. People forget "Clark Kent" is as vital as "millionaire playboy Bruce Wayne" to throw suspicion off, but that doesn't mean there isn't a REAL Clark Kent the way there's still very much a real Bruce Wayne with heart besides "Bruce Wayne". It's just the real Clark is a lot more similar to Superman.
-I don't mind Supergirl starting out as Silver Age "Secret Weapon" becoming a public hero becoming the Bronze Age worldly heroine and in a combined timeline, becoming the very self-aware Power Girl. That feels like a natural evolution, you can even start her out as the more confused, angry modern Supergirl the New52 introduced, then finding her home with the Danvers, turning into the more pleasant Bronze Age one and then starting up Starrware around the same time she becomes Peegee. It also lets her join the Titans into maturing into her own identity even if she was never one of them. I'm also fine with that being Power Girl Proper's story when she somehow went through space AND dimensions into the prime timeline, and the native Supergirl comes later for the usual contrast between the two. Naturally, they'll eventually get along and Peegee will see the younger/native timeline Supergirl as her eventual sister and vice-versa. You can also - ugh - introduce dimensional shenanigans if you must with this. But yeah, just merge Supergirl (Kara/Linda Lee Danvers) and Peegee (Karen Starr) if possible.

 

[Humble Architect]

Here we go, you asked for this.

Spoiler: Rogues

Ideally I’d like Zod to be the monk to Clark’s fighter, he’s not as strong and he might not even have all the tricks, but he’s also a veteran of countless wars and a chessmaster, failing that, the fighting culture of dead Krypton and genetic engineering lets him keep up (Clark is technically science-caste).

I’ve said before that Doomsday is Superman’s legend. His Typhon, Nemean Lion, Minotaur, etc. The monster that only Superman could face, it couldn’t be outwitted, imprisoned, stalled, outran, it was a test of strength and Superman slew the monster with the last of his life. Granted it should’ve stayed dead but that’s neither here nor there.

Lex is the perfect human yet lacks any human connection, his enemy is the alien who embodies everything worthwhile about mankind. He tells himself what he does is for mankind but knows deep-down that it’s his complex. His city screams the name of a brute in tights, he’s their champion not Lex and for that he needs to die.

Metallo should be the Adam Smasher to Lexcorp’s Arasaka, a cold robotic sociopath, enslaved to an egotistical madman and utterly uncaring because it means another round at the alien. By making him and Lex master and minion, Lex’s armor can instead go to this guy and Lex can instead rock the business suit.

Brainiac has already been correctly stated so I’m going with Mongul, a personal favourite and probably the most vile of Superman’s villains. Like sure the others are bad but Mongul is evil in a human way, gluttonous, cruel, perverse, egotistical, sexist. One of the few outside Brainiac, Doomsday and Darkseid that Superman is absolutely willing to kill. Also hurt Superman in the creepiest and worst way possible, the Black Mercy’s second life.

Parasite needs to get worse, in an Arkham Killer Croc way, going from energy vampire to Carnage, each feeding has less return than the one before, endless hunger, devolving more and more each time.

Overall, the rogues should evolve with the “Never Ending Battle,” starting off with gimmick criminals like Livewire, armoured Metallo and Toyman. Then as the years go on, the ones that stay in action lose more and more of their humanity and eventually they are dwarfed by the arrival of the alien villains, the big guns, the Tyrant of Apokolips, the last echos of Kryton, the Coluan and the Master of Warworld dwarf the pre-existing villains and are a threat beyond them.

Spoiler: Supporting Cast

Lois should be the “anti-Clark” and that’s what draws Clark in, loud, abrasive, not particularly pleasant, brutally honest, but she’s got a good heart, she just doesn’t wear it on her sleeve. STAS got her right, her and Clark should have the snarky rivalry from the Byrne-era. Lois should figure it out but waits for Clark to tell her, being mad initially but then thinking about it from his POV is where she puts both together in her mind and falls for the complete picture, after they formally start dating she becomes the tether, to keep Superman grounded to reality. As more heroes pop up, the world becomes more and more chaotic and what was is cast away, she’s the one that gives him reason to descend and let go of the burden, if only for a bit. Lois mellowing out and becoming nicer should coincide with Clark’s cynicism starting to creep in as time goes by.

Jimmy’s already been stated but he should become a rockstar reporter whose work eventually eclipses his mentors, not that Lois and Clark mind. He should also be the “last one,” as Clark’s world starts to fade, loved one by loved one, Jimmy should be Clark’s last friend (the best part of the Superman Beyond comic).

Pa Kent should die to Brainiac but the death should also set in motion the “fall” in Superman’s later career. I like Superman “falling” and having to rise, to regain what made him the hero, kinda like KC. This should be the first event in a chain that leads to big blue’s fall.

Supergirl should grow into Power Girl, she should become more cheery as time goes on (contrasting the more world-weary Clark) and as I’ve said should be Lois and Clark’s “kid in a rocket” giving them a surrogate kid and Clark a shot at having a sidekick, the majority of his career he should ironically be a bigger loner than Batman.

Spoiler: The Man Himself

The first, the one who braves a path for all the others. The world’s introduction to costumed heroes is a man in red and blue catching a helicopter in one hand and a woman in the other, then cracking a one-liner and flying with ease, placing both on the roof.

Superman should start out as his usual kind self, not an idiot but with an optimism that nobody else seems to share. The persona is partially an act and Clark Kent is more realistic and down to earth, I like Clark with his STAS snark and honesty in his Clark identity, that’s the guy, no over the top silliness, just some played up clumsiness and the “Kansas Dork” image leaned into.

His power should scale with age and he should be the strongest, hands-down, only getting stronger as more and more yellow sunlight is absorbed and metabolized. Superman at fifty should be at his apex and aged out of his weaknesses to electricity and kryptonite, fully adapting to them due to his enemies overusing these methods.

Superman and Batman should be part-timers on the League, consultants on occasion but not regulars. The “break glass” options.

Clark should be smart but notably not a Jor-El, he’s simply not a scientist in the vein of his biological, Lex or Bruce. If he was raised on Krypton he wouldn’t be “elite” or “super,” he’d be an average guy.

As the years go on and his burden becomes so much greater and the threats get worse, he slowly starts to be undone, the Darkseids and the Brainiacs wear him down by a thousand cuts over thirty years. Everytime he comes home from a crisis, a war, an exile, Lois puts the Man of Steel back together. When she’s gone and the world is starting to turn against his message, he falls, fails when it matters most, the immovable mover gives up.

He’s gotta pick himself back up, relearn what made him special, it isn’t the strength, the image, the life, the league or even his message. He was raised by two good people who raised a good man who just wants to do good by his neighbors.

Because that’s Superman, he’s not a star god, a great leader of justice champions, he’s not even some paragon of hope, he’s just a blue-collar guy who was raised right and just happens to be capable of great things.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Pretty much, I don’t like the idea of him being a legacy hero either. Superman should be the first, the path to follow, there’s thousands of heroes but one of him, the Last Son of Krypton. I hate, hate other kryptonians with the exception of Kara existing and she’s pushing it most of the time, in the modern stuff at least. If there has to be other kryptonians I prefer him being the “top of the food chain” due to being Earthborn and growing up saturated in yellow sunlight.

But with his cast, I prefer the “adopted family” over the biological, Lois the love of his life, Kara as their surrogate kid, Bruce is the edgy twin brother, the Legion as his legacy, Jimmy is the dorky little bro and so on.

I like that “dignified sadness” in Superman, with Batman they beat you over the head with it, but with Superman there’s the obvious, he is the last of his kind, try as he might he isn’t human and will outlive everything and everyone, Lois will age and he will stop at 40 (50 because of stress) and that loneliness he felt as a kid? That’s forever.

He doesn’t let the inevitable keep him down though, he doesn’t let it all in and listen to people being shitty 24/7, he stands up like a man and goes to work every morning and is content to wear the trappings of a human because that’s how he was raised. That’s the Superman I like.

I think that Supes post-crisis was pretty good, even with the really stretched out bit where he self-exiled due to guilt over killing evil kryptonians. I think the 2000s "New Krypton" had potential but kept getting into bad executions, sadly.

I like the idea that the original Silver Age wave of heroes are all sort of close in their own way. Wasn't it brought up that Barry, Hal, Ollie, and Ralph all went to dinner together? Ray and Carter, Clark and Bruce, Diana and the girls, etc.

First things first, de-age Jon. Like, holy fuck, you don't need him to be a YA Superboy, we have one of those.

The dignified sadness is an angle that I think should have been explored more before we had Jon pop up. Like, fuck, I remember the 00s Superman book as 90% a blur aside from the goofy ass shit with Luthor.

So, the other thing I think we'd also need to see a bit more. Playing into the lonely immortal angle would be genuinely interesting. Have a series where he lives out a few millennia as even the immortals he got to know disappear and/or die. Diana, Shazam, all of them. Even the villains. Occasionally, he winds up recognizing a Carter/Shiera reincarnation or some such thing, or maybe a Deadman encounter. But, he's just stuck there.Maybe he's given a lot of chances to not be so lonely, but winds up giving them away to save people.

 

[Humble Architect]

It is interesting how important Jon was when he debuted, a miracle child, moreso than Clark ever was, heir to two worlds, son of the Last Son of Krypton and the Last Daughter of Earth (at the time) and the implication that he was going to outpace his father, which I always interpreted as their way of referencing the Silver Age Superman being leagues above the Golden Age one in terms of raw power. Him and his parents were such an adrenaline shot into the brand, it was glorious.

Superman’s fear of outliving everyone is put on the back burner and for once it looked like a sidekick was gonna stick.

Then he got raped by Ultraman (Bendis) and Superman becoming the lonely immortal is the preferable outcome.

One thing I did like from One Million was Superman kinda “owning it” and saying to the Atom, “Welcome to my universe.” Then, with the aid of Hourman he takes that philosophy to it’s logical endpoint and saves Krypton, remakes Lois and returns home, the conquering hero, interestingly fulfilling the Kryptonian prophecy from the Donner movie.

 

[el bandito loco]

It is interesting how important Jon was when he debuted, a miracle child, moreso than Clark ever was, heir to two worlds, son of the Last Son of Krypton and the Last Daughter of Earth (at the time) and the implication that he was going to outpace his father, which I always interpreted as their way of referencing the Silver Age Superman being leagues above the Golden Age one in terms of raw power. Him and his parents were such an adrenaline shot into the brand, it was glorious.

Superman’s fear of outliving everyone is put on the back burner and for once it looked like a sidekick was gonna stick.

Then he got raped by Ultraman (Bendis) and Superman becoming the lonely immortal is the preferable outcome.

One thing I did like from One Million was Superman kinda “owning it” and saying to the Atom, “Welcome to my universe.” Then, with the aid of Hourman he takes that philosophy to it’s logical endpoint and saves Krypton, remakes Lois and returns home, the conquering hero, interestingly fulfilling the Kryptonian prophecy from the Donner movie.

I wasn't a huge fan of Jon at his introduction (or bringing back my Superman either for that matter because it was just weird) but I was won over on it and then Bendis retroactively made me not care at all and never be able to care about that character ever again. It's a shame really because I was warming up to Super dad and son.