- Joined
- Feb 22, 2024
Superman/Batman, specifically the “Public Enemies” and “Supergirl from Krypton” arcs, pure 80s buddy cop greatness.
“We can take them.”
“You always say that.”
DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups
- Thread starter Basic Blonde Boy
- Start date
-
Want to keep track of this thread?
Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
Create account
“We can take them.”
“You always say that.”
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
it's not your fault most people don't understand either character alone, let alone together but they in fact, are the world's finest team and have a cool dynamic. they're essentially like brothers, one's the kinda fun one, the other hates everything but they get along great amongst themselves, and when the going gets tough they both get dead serious and WILL fuck you up
TheAmbiguousLurker
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
"I don't know if I can get to the kryptonite before your wound closes."
"Where's the Flash when you need him?"
"Do me a favour and lose the sense of humour."
"Do us both a favour and buy one."
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2024
“Why do the good villians never die?”
“Clark, what the hell is a good villain?”
They’re great when written well, the movie adaptations of both arcs did a good job.
“That was my best friend and you just killed him.”
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2020
I dislike Jeph Loeb but he did decent work on quite a bit of that
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
I think in comics he's one of the biggest hit or miss writers of the last generation. he's either great, or absolutely fucking terrible. I think his Batman/Superman stuff is probably his peak, but I understand why people like Long Halloween or those Marvel Colors books as much as they do. He did lose his teenage son to cancer and most of his worst work was after that. He probably (understandably) just lost his fuckin' mind.
another one is probably Frank Miller but I think that's less hit or miss, more just people write off his 'bad' comics as bad when I think they either don't get what he's doing or it just isn't to taste. shit like All Star Batman & Robin and Dark Knight Strikes Again are like full satire books but people seem to think that's just him writing what he thinks is good stuff and I think they're missing the point. his more recent fuck ups, like Ronin 2 are just him cashing a check though those aren't bad because they're trying and failing, they're bad because he's not trying.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2020
I think the level of popularity a writer is at sometimes dictates the quality of their work. When they have an editor or editorial group watching what they do and able to correct them, they often can't make the mistakes some writers will make when they're established big names. Grant Morrison isn't a bad writer, but once he got too big to edit, his writing became fucking awful sometimes. When he's working on his own creation, it's usually not too bad. Take a look at his xmen run. It's shit. It's written like he couldn't give a fuck about reading any of what came before and makes little to no sense whatsoever with regard to continuity and foundational personalities.
Stephen King is the same way. His earlier stuff was usually pretty good, barring a few stinkers. By the time of Cell, nobody could tell him "Hey, this works, this works, what the fuck is this? Please take another pass at this part." Still love some of those Bachman books.
Stephen King is the same way. His earlier stuff was usually pretty good, barring a few stinkers. By the time of Cell, nobody could tell him "Hey, this works, this works, what the fuck is this? Please take another pass at this part." Still love some of those Bachman books.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
@Prehistoric Jazz I think that's true too. On the subject of Morrison's New X-Men I don't think that was that though, that was because he didn't read, care about or even like Marvel Comics. They barely got any of it in Scottland so he didn't grow up with it like he did DC. I've always contested he should have been the guy for Ultimate X Men because a lot of his concepts in that book wouldn't have sucked in a different continuity but dropping it into the MU of 2001 or whatever it was didn't work.
Millar when he wrote Ultimate X-Men had only seen the first movie because like Morrison they had no exposure to it and they both wrote their runs based upon basic cultural osmosis and random stacks of X books Marvel gave them. The two of them in particular are both guys though who definitely at a certain point in their careers got to that no interference level to extreme mixed results from pretty good to horrible because of it.
My favorite comic of all time is Morrison's Final Crisis but it's a victim of that. I 100% understand why people hate it and it's the way it is because he just did whatever the fuck he wanted, most of his other work that he had that level of control over, I don't like at all. Final Crisis just hits every single one of my weirder specific sensibilities.
Frank Miller and something like All Star has that going on but I can't fathom how people read that and take it seriously. It's obviously a fucking parody. Maybe it's Jim Lee's completely traditional superhero art that causes the confusion but that book is a satire on then current superhero books, miller's own work, and the gritty take on Batman he popularized taken to the nth degree. and it's hysterical. Batman refers to Green Lantern as a "gay retarded demigod" in that book, how could someone read that and not know Miller was laughing his ass off writing it?
I see it with people writing off the original Ultimates run too. It's edgy and dark for the sake of it. No it's not, it's a parody of post 9/11 America and then chic reality TV celebrity culture. it has Captain America lightsaber fighting Captain Afganistan on the White House lawn in the end. how the fuck do you miss that? Millar himself does later fall into that edgy for the sake of edgy trap, but I think a lot of the time that's him doing him, like doing what he thinks is expected of him. And for better or worse, mostly worse, people buy it and like it.
Millar when he wrote Ultimate X-Men had only seen the first movie because like Morrison they had no exposure to it and they both wrote their runs based upon basic cultural osmosis and random stacks of X books Marvel gave them. The two of them in particular are both guys though who definitely at a certain point in their careers got to that no interference level to extreme mixed results from pretty good to horrible because of it.
My favorite comic of all time is Morrison's Final Crisis but it's a victim of that. I 100% understand why people hate it and it's the way it is because he just did whatever the fuck he wanted, most of his other work that he had that level of control over, I don't like at all. Final Crisis just hits every single one of my weirder specific sensibilities.
Frank Miller and something like All Star has that going on but I can't fathom how people read that and take it seriously. It's obviously a fucking parody. Maybe it's Jim Lee's completely traditional superhero art that causes the confusion but that book is a satire on then current superhero books, miller's own work, and the gritty take on Batman he popularized taken to the nth degree. and it's hysterical. Batman refers to Green Lantern as a "gay retarded demigod" in that book, how could someone read that and not know Miller was laughing his ass off writing it?
I see it with people writing off the original Ultimates run too. It's edgy and dark for the sake of it. No it's not, it's a parody of post 9/11 America and then chic reality TV celebrity culture. it has Captain America lightsaber fighting Captain Afganistan on the White House lawn in the end. how the fuck do you miss that? Millar himself does later fall into that edgy for the sake of edgy trap, but I think a lot of the time that's him doing him, like doing what he thinks is expected of him. And for better or worse, mostly worse, people buy it and like it.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2020
I don't think I took All Star Batman seriously so much as I wanted to. He had Jim Lee on it and it was set in the same universe as the first DK book; it could've been fucking great. Instead it was little more than a kid making faces at fans from a car window.
I have no problem with Parody but I want quality parody that clearly indicates itself from the jump. And consider how it was marketed at first, nothing indicated it was a fuck you to fans of the IP. If I'm being sold on something serious and it turns out to be parody, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as much as I otherwise could. Frank Miller isn't Bill Jemas making a clusterfuck like Marville but goddamn if he didn't try to match energy with that book.
I have no problem with Parody but I want quality parody that clearly indicates itself from the jump. And consider how it was marketed at first, nothing indicated it was a fuck you to fans of the IP. If I'm being sold on something serious and it turns out to be parody, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as much as I otherwise could. Frank Miller isn't Bill Jemas making a clusterfuck like Marville but goddamn if he didn't try to match energy with that book.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
I don't necessarily disagree with you but again I think all of that is sort of the point, with that book in particular. It's an intentional rug pull. It wouldn't be effective or any good without it. the entire point is you go on expecting one thing, and getting something different. it's the same thing he did with DK2 so people should have sort have known what they were getting into, but if it was advertised as what it is it wouldn't work.
Regardless, all star is actually pretty good at what it's doing and dark knight 2 has it's moments but is a creative misfire at best and a used condom that you had nothing to do with found in your car after leaving it in a parking garage overnight at worst.
I just don't understand how personal people take all star. It's not a fuck you to the fans in the slightest, it's a guy taking the piss out of himself. DK2 could be read as a fuck you, it's more of a here, you wanted more of that? how about what you liked but it sucks and takes everything as far as possible so you leave me alone.
but what I'm speaking to really is less about what you're saying, which it's a taste and expectation thing which is valid, and more to dumbfucks with no media literacy who legitimately don't get it 20 years removed. It's the worst Batman comic ever! No, the worst Batman comic ever is probably something trying to be taken seriously, that's just bad. I doubt it's anywhere near the worst ever, but I recently read Batman Lovers and Madmen. now, that book fucking sucks.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2018
Allstar batman and robin also hasnt been helped by the fact that the ALl star superman book is considered a seminal work on the character.
if all star superman was just bog average to bad then batman would just be consigned to the weird shit that didnt really pan out shelf,
hell doesnt batman fuck black canary on a wharf besides a bunch of cooling corpses in all star?
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
yeah lmao it's hilarious. just so everyone knows though I'm not the one man All Star B&R apologist army. I like it but it's not particularly great or anything. It just irritates me how stupid some people are and have been complaining for 20 years about it as the worst character assassination ever when if you read almost any single sentence out of it you can tell what it is.
I was a kid when it came out and I read it when the hardcover came out and understood what it was. I wouldn't have probably known the word satire but I got it was doing something on purpose to be ridiculous.
I just think it's insane people so many years later are still complaining about it. There's been much worse character assassinations of him then him being turned into the most sad, vulnerable and pathetic version of the character being a total psychopath to look cool and calling people gay and retarded in an intentional comedy (or at least critique) of the ultra serious version of the character that at least has dope art. Tons of batman books don't even have that part going for them.
It's like people who don't understand Adam West Batman is supposed to be funny. Sure if you're a little kid, I get it, but if you watch that and don't see what it is you're just a complete idiot. I get not liking all star, It just happens to be the type of thing I find funny. Someone could tell me it's legitimately terrible because they just don't like it and that's fine, it's the fact people think it's unintentional that drives me nuts.
All Star Superman didn't do it any favors, but the fact most people who read it apparently are illiterate didn't either.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2023
didn't All Star never get finished? i'd probably be pretty pissed about that.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
yeah that's it's real problem. they set up Joker and then it ends. they've kicked around finishing it like 3 separate times but never have. I wouldn't really want them to anyways, it wouldn't be the same thing.
Newcomer 42
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2025
What do you call Miller seemingly going full retard and having fucking Trump in the third The Dark Knight comic with Darkseid helping him to win the elections?
I would say one of the worst Bats takes are some of Tom King's stories. I read the Rorscharch title, hoping for more Watchmen experience... And it completely misses the point of that comic, wastes your time with pointless drivel, and of course ends with a "kill drumpf!" scene. As for Batman, haven't read any of his after that comic, but I believe they are indeed terrible and set up and ending that never happens (but for what's worth, blame status quo for that one).
The short story he made for Enigma is also terribad and tryhard.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
I didn't read DK Golden Child or Last Crusade, but probably terrible. I haven't read it so I don't know if he's trying to make a political point or just cashing in when every other media on the planet has been bitching about trump for the last few years but from that being something in it I guess he wasn't trying to make a comic about batman. He's old as fuck now, he probably seethes all day watching the news. He's always done random political shit so that's probably an example of him of him actually trying to do something and it sucks. I was mainly just talking about how some of the stuff he made people shit on in the 2000s I think most the problems with was intentional whether it was good or not. And ronin 2 and xerxes which were his most recent stuff I read seemed like he didn't even attempt to write anything in the first place.
Tom King's Batman is a trainwreck. I like a couple King books more than most people seem to, Superman Up in the Sky was pretty good, and Mr. Miracle was okay but his Batman has like 0 redeeming qualities as an isolated comic or the in universe Batman stories it was. I haven't read anything else he's done, I wouldn't read Rorshach (or before watchmen, or doomsday clock) if you paid me, and I know what heroes in crisis was about and the twist and it sounds boring and whiny.
Newcomer 42
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2025
You don't miss much. I read it as I was told the art is spectacular, which it is, to be fair... And that's all it has. It can't compare to Watchmen's experimental nature (nor it tries to), it tries to build up on the worldbuilding and fails, as there are no superhero comics because real superheroes would make that industry pointless, totally (oh, and there's no Internet in America because isolationism! And also cuz if there was, the retarded plot wouldn't happen). It completely ignores the ending of Watchmen and could exist in a separate work without issues, except for a few references here and there to justify its existence as a spinoff instead of its own thing.
Oh, and it tries to paint fanatical people as lunatics who blame the world for their problems by having people believe there's a conspiracy about alien takeover of the world and the diseappearance of heroes... BUT, they are right, considering the fake alien plot of the OG work. They are misguided but they are on the money. After that dud, I investigated more this Tom King character and realized he's a hack.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2023
I was looking it up awhile back and Watchmen was basically just a Alan Moore fanfic of Steve Ditko characters, like Alan Moore is stalker level obsessed with Steve Ditko, even having a Steve Ditko themed band (at least if he was serious in that UK show i watched) and that explains why Alan wanted to use his characters for Watchmen. He even says Spiderman peaked with him. It is odd how much he hates Walter when he's a knock off of the question which was a Ditko stand in.
Another crazy part is how all these characters from Ditko's Charlton Comics have very few issues. Something sort of silly to me how people can get attached to characters and their canon and legacies after only a few issues.
Superman might also have been heavily influenced by The Gladiator, surprised in all this time about how Superman was a creation of two young jewish men i never hear about them riping off some right wing guy's very popular book which was turned into a movie like a year before Superman came out.
Another crazy part is how all these characters from Ditko's Charlton Comics have very few issues. Something sort of silly to me how people can get attached to characters and their canon and legacies after only a few issues.
Superman might also have been heavily influenced by The Gladiator, surprised in all this time about how Superman was a creation of two young jewish men i never hear about them riping off some right wing guy's very popular book which was turned into a movie like a year before Superman came out.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2021
I don’t think Moore "hates" Question/Rorschach any more than he hates Miracleman, I think he’s more interested in ideas.
The Crimebusters were his take on the best and worst of America at the time. Kovacs, so obsessed with justice, he’ll trample due process if it means protecting women. Blake, who bends the law to do whatever he wants. Manhattan is like science, godlike power and zero emotional investment.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2020
Superman originally started as a Lex Luthor-looking fucker with Telekinetic and Telepathic abilities. The revised version was the circus strongman from the stars. I have no doubt that Wylie somewhat inspired their revision, but Danner mostly resembles Superman in his inhuman strength. Sad book.