Community Debate Ethics in VTubing, Model Design and Voice Acting, Loli and Loli-adjacency - Containment zone for third rail enjoyers

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Itjustdontmatta said:
That argument doesn’t hold up. You’re pretending there’s some clean line between “petite woman” and “loli” based on head-to-body ratio but that’s not how vtuber design works. Being 4 heads tall isn’t some magic threshold that makes a character unambiguously a child.
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This is literally just bullshit. I've never confused a 12 year old for an adult woman. The ability to know pubescent from prepubescent is hard coded into the most primitive parts of the brain. It's not one thing like head to height ratio, it's a combination of factors put together, and it's her performance. She talks in a baby voice puppeteering a character with no sexual development features that looks 12. And I know the intention is to masturbate pedophiles because the reaction from her own audience is "uooohhh child tummy".

You're in fucking denial and should be ashamed of yourself
 
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Null said:
This is literally just bullshit. I've never confused a 12 year old for an adult woman. The ability to know pubescent from prepubescent is hard coded into the most primitive parts of the brain. It's not one thing like head to height ratio, it's a combination of factors put together, and it's her performance. She talks in a baby voice puppeteering a character with no sexual development features that looks 12. And I know the intention is to masturbate pedophiles because the reaction from her own audience is "uooohhh child tummy".

You're in fucking denial and should be ashamed of yourself
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to be 100% fair a bunch of those responses like uoohhh, tummy, etc are not taken seriously by the people who say them. It's like the weeb version of being edgy.
 
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Null said:
She has no hip to waist ratio. You're not a woman. No woman would look at that shit and think "oh my God she's literally me".

Btw most people aren't saying her performer is a pedophile just that she masturbates pedophiles for money.
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So now VTubers need to pass your IRL body scan to be valid? It’s an anime avatar, not a 3D model. This isn’t realism, it’s stylized art. Judging character legitimacy based on waist-to-hip ratio is like arguing with cartoons because they don’t match your anatomy textbook.

You say it "attracts a certain audience"? Fine, I agree, so go after that audience, not the performer. If someone’s jerking off to Dora the Explorer, that’s on them, not Nickelodeon. You’re blaming the knife for who decides to stab with it. That’s lazy moralizing.

And if you're saying she’s "masturbating pedos for money", then what about most of the VTubers who openly love Saba and promote her? Are they guilty too? Or does your moral outrage only apply when it’s convenient?

And I am a woman with barely any hip-to-waist ratio, again, such a silly argument.

Anyway, Saba is going live soon, I'm off to watch her, yoho!!!
 
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cheesed to meet you said:
This argument falls apart when you realize most non-loli vtubers are petite women. You don't have to portray yourself as a loli to represent yourself as a petite woman. I generally have a more generous view when it comes to what is a loli and what isn't but Saba is 4 heads tall. She does not look like a petite women and petite women do not look like that.
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>the headstack of consent
 
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Tell me with a straight face that this person is not gooning to Saba/Gura/whatever
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Itjustdontmatta said:
This isn’t realism, it’s stylized art. Judging character legitimacy based on waist-to-hip ratio is like arguing with cartoons because they don’t match your anatomy textbook.
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Art for cartoons, anime and otherwise, has specific design cues to make it as unambiguous as possible to identify what the subject is. If you present this character design to someone who is not familiar with anime they see a depiction of a child, which is the intent, because it follows the design cues while exempting others that would signify an adult.
 
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Itjustdontmatta said:
You're projecting intent without considering voice, lore, behavior, any of the actual context that matters.
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Her intro screen shows her character drawing in a colouring book and she said her characters age doesn't matter. If she was a petite adult woman why wouldn't she say she's an adult?
Itjustdontmatta said:
And I am a woman with barely any hip-to-waist ratio, again, such a silly argument.
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Sure but I guarantee that you do not look like a child. There are a variety of secondary sex characteristics adult women have that indicate they are adult women. Women with dwarfism do not look like children despite being four feet tall because they have the characteristics adult women have. I've heard of women being mistaken for teenagers but nobody mistakes an adult woman for a prepubescent girl because there are very clear differences between the two.
 
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WelperHelper99 said:
Tell me with a straight face that this person is not gooning to Saba/Gura/whatever
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I honestly can’t tell, this is Poe’s Law in action.

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist lolicon in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.
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However, I don’t give the benefit of the doubt anymore so I say he’s cranking it.
 
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Maeis said:
to be 100% fair a bunch of those responses like uoohhh, tummy, etc are not taken seriously by the people who say them. It's like the weeb version of being edgy.
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"Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company."

Except not really. Nobody jokes about this shit. If you don't believe me watch the metokur stream on Amos Yee.

Itjustdontmatta said:
it’s stylized art.
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Of children.

And don't give me that 'this is how I heal my trauma ' bullshit either. If it is you should just let your trauma win.
 
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Null said:
"Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company."

Except not really. Nobody jokes about this shit. If you don't believe me watch the metokur stream on Amos Yee.
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I mean, Yee was literally saying that IRL pedophiles shouldn't be hated. is there not a pretty significant line between that and worshipping an anime avatar?

At the very least that's far more blatant. You said in the Jim thread that you need solid proof someone is a pedophile to substantiate and argument supporting that- unless the examples you give are solid proof, in which case I don't think so. I need proof beyond a reasonable doubt that someone's a pedo before I can consign calling them one. I believe that Yee's video is beyond a reasonable doubt, loli not so much.
 
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cheesed to meet you said:
Sure but I guarantee that you do not look like a child. There are a variety of secondary sex characteristics adult women have that indicate they are adult women. Women with dwarfism do not look like children despite being four feet tall because they have the characteristics adult women have. I've heard of women being mistaken for teenagers but nobody mistakes an adult woman for a prepubescent girl because there are very clear differences between the two.
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That assertion is ridiculous. Do any of you have children, or at least nieces/nephews? Like there is a massive fucking difference between an actual 12 yo and an adult. You can be short, but you aren't a kid, and you won't fool an adult.
 
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Sperg Spectating said:
Ah yes. They're just pretending to be pedophiles.

Of course.
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I actually find that stuff not great and I don't think it's normal. I just think someone's being an idiot before actual evidence of their misdeeds is presented. Again, Amos Yee was talking about real life predation being a-ok. There's a big difference between that and "uohhhh" nonsense.
 
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