Oh hell no, I have a G3. Specifically one with a match-grade barrel I've got set up as a DMR. Deutsche Qualität over meme shit like the FN FAL ("right hand of the free world", which no nation in the "free world" has used for over 30 years) or the literal WW2 relics (M1A/M14).
That's what I said in a post that got migrated. You want to penetrate NIJ IV, use a full-power rifle bullet, preferably something that's got a penetrator core or is just an outright AP bullet.
Call of Duty, that's where.
You won't penetrate NIJ IV with a full power rifle bullet, even with AP ammo. It's specifically rated to stop that exact sort of thing.
Once or twice, that's the standard if I remember right. That being said, civilians in the USA can't legally own AP ammunition anyway, best you'll get is EP.
1. The original post I replied to was about how 9x39mm made 7.62x39mm obsolete for SF uses. Well, it's clear it didn't, and I wrote why: no decisive advantages in penetration and shitty ballistics. I'd also add the ability to use "normal" supersonic rounds in AKM.
There was SOME advantage in penetration and terminal ballistics with 9x39 over 7.62 subsonic, bullet weight is a helluva drug. But it does lead to the caliber being a specialist one, as opposed to 7.62x39 which remains sort of a jack of all trades.
My brother in Christ what 30mm cannon ammo are you talking about, the M113 is pennable by .30-06 black-tip AP in certain areas. I imagine 12.7 or 14.5mm would go through it like butter, not to mention anything bigger.
30mm would be the most common round on the battlefield, given the abundance of BMP-2s, BTRs, and other armored vehicles. Afaik the front plate has a chance of stopping a 20mm round, but only at really long range and against a somewhat slow bullet.
Cold war Tracer will do the trick. you dont need to Penetrate the Body armor if you can just knock the person down while setting everything around on fire...
All these posts were originally in the Russian Ukraine war thread specifically discussing the relative obsolescence of certain calibers used in those countries. Civilian use never factored into the discussion.
man its sad that they are forced to use an APC from the cold war that was out dated when it was made. anyone in a m113 would be better off in an open top jeep from ww2 since they can dismount rapidly if they come under fire in the jeep. plus with the jeep you get less shrapnel from spall if your shot at. its kinda funny how the Ukraine war as brought everything back to the cold war and further back. though I guess it proves that the cold war was the last time any of the countries involved made shit at a scale that was ready for a war.
If Russian Wikipedia is correct, first prototypes of VSS were using 7.62x39mm subsonic. Later, the project switched to purpose-built 7.62x28mm round. But in 1985, new requirements dropped: VSS was supposed to penetrate 6B2/Zh-81 body armor (which offered ballistic protection similar to NIJ type II-IIIA) at 400m. 7.62mm subsonic rounds failed and were replaced by 9x39mm.
It's the most popular. I'm much more fond of 10mm myself and can make plenty of arguments as to why it's a better option than 9mm, unless of course you're a woman or European.
look I LOVE 10mm with a passion, but its not as common and the guns that fire it are normally bulkier (at least the ones I've seen). though if we want to race to the bottom? .22lr... NEVER use .22lr for self defense. it's weak and wile it will poke holes in an attacker it wont stop anyone with enough pain tolerance and adrenaline from continuing to advance and attack you. 9mm is the base line because grandma, any anyone else who cant handle hotter rounds like .45acp or 10mm can use and it still be effective.
Fair enough.
I have a Makarov PM and an AKM. Shotguns are terrible for home protection, especially the fabled 12gauge, for most of the population.
Mine is a Makarov. Small enough to conceal easily, big enough to get a good hold on. When coupled with Hornady Critical Defense HP 9x18mm, it makes a good (if a bit obsolete) concealable handgun.
the one the shAK 12 was using? it's meant to be a ultra quite urban round with improved armor penetration. 5.45 like 5.56 is nearing its limit for AP applications and body armor is still improving.
