Debate the differences and usefulness of many different kinds of ammo and weaponry

[Yak-130 Mitten]

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From the actual brainlet who brought you "the US is probably going to be spinning up production of 5.45 ammo at Lake City" comes a new cope "the US military is exclusively standardized on one gun and we don't have several versions of the M14, M16 and M4 in service concurrently, along with half a dozen SMGs"
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I'm beginning to think these people live in some sort of fantasy universe that has a very very slight resemblance to real life.
@MG-34 holy shit you are fucking stupid on god no cap

@MG-34 what is your stance on US army still using M2 Browning, and german army and vehicles still using what is pretty much an MG-42 in a different calibre?

 

[MG-34]

@MG-34 what is your stance on US army still using M2 Browning, and german army and vehicles still using what is pretty much an MG-42 in a different calibre?

The M2 and MG3 are very good weapons that have withstood the test of time with minor modifications such as the M2A1 and rechambering the orginal MG-42 to NATO standard and lowering the cyclic rate of fire. The US and German militaries don't field them alongside near identical weapon systems and the Germans don't maintain stocks of MG-42s along MG3s to further stain logistics unnecessarily so I don't see a comparison.

 

[Makhno]

MG-42s along MG3s

This smug little retarded doesn't realize they are essentially the same exact mechanical weapon with minor internal parts differences, which is why instead of renaming the weapon system they affix additional designations to it, and that the Bundeswehr did indeed maintain stocks of MG-42 parts to service MG3s for decades until the stock of those parts ran out. The systems were so similar that the existing MG-42's that had already been upgraded to the MG1-A3 standard for 7.62 were simply upgraded to MG3 variant by swapping parts. The M2A1 is literally just new site mounting options, a barrel change mechanism and handful of other minor parts. Congrats for coming second behind the mind searing stupidity of the Tank Guy for not knowing shit about the military but whereas his knowledge comes from games I can tell you are the kind of faggot who has a Janes subscription and watches media propaganda so they think they know things.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

I can tell you are the kind of faggot who has a Janes subscription and watches media propaganda so they think they know things.

There is 0% chance this nigger even knows what Janes is.

 

[MG-34]

This smug little retarded doesn't realize they are essentially the same exact mechanical weapon with minor internal parts differences, which is why instead of renaming the weapon system they affix additional designations to it, and that the Bundeswehr did indeed maintain stocks of MG-42 parts to service MG3s for decades until the stock of those parts ran out. The systems were so similar that the existing MG-42's that had already been upgraded to the MG1-A3 standard for 7.62 were simply upgraded to MG3 variant by swapping parts. The M2A1 is literally just new site mounting options, a barrel change mechanism and handful of other minor parts. Congrats for coming second behind the mind searing stupidity of the Tank Guy for not knowing shit about the military but whereas his knowledge comes from games I can tell you are the kind of faggot who has a Janes subscription and watches media propaganda so they think they know things.

Nigger the M2A1 doesn't even have any commonality with the orginal M2 besides the receiver and cover assembly. You dumb shits can't even use google to find a TM before running your mouth.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Nigger the M2A1 doesn't even have any commonality with the orginal M2 besides the receiver and cover assembly. You dumb shits can't even use google to find a TM before running your mouth.

OK but can you please elaborate on why you think the American military doesn't have 19 different variants of the M16 in service concurrently?

 

[MG-34]

OK but can you please elaborate on why you think the American military doesn't have 19 different variants of the M16 in service concurrently?

The only variants of the M16 in active service are the M16A2/A4 and the M4/M4A1 besides some unicorn variants with SOF and maybe some M16A3s still held by the US Navy. The orginal M16s and M16A1s as well as the CAR-15 can't even be used due to compatibility issues with the barrels and M855/M855A1 ammunition where the rounds will tumble with the older barrel profiles and were converted, sold or destroyed.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

The only variants of the M16 in active service are the M16A2/A4 and the M4/M4A1 besides some unicorn variants with SOF and maybe some M16A3s still held by the US Navy. The orginal M16s and M16A1s as well as the CAR-15 can't even be used due to compatibility issues with the barrels and M855/M855A1 ammunition where the rounds will tumble with the older barrel profiles and were converted, sold or destroyed.

OK so two or possibly three variants of the M16, two variants of the M4, the M27 IAR, the M38 DMR, the Mk18, however many other random variants are floating around in various branch armories.

And that's just the 5.56 rifles the US military uses.

What was your original point again?

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

OK so two or possibly three variants of the M16, two variants of the M4, the M27 IAR, the M38 DMR, the Mk18, however many other random variants are floating around in various branch armories.

And that's just the 5.56 rifles the US military uses.

What was your original point again?

Don't worry! Soon all of it will be replaced by 6.8mm rifles, making it a problem of the past.

At least until they go back to 5.56mm because Private Shaniqua can't handle the recoil, can't carry as much 6.8mm ammo, and can't hit targets further than 100 yards.

 

[MG-34]

OK so two or possibly three variants of the M16, two variants of the M4, the M27 IAR, the M38 DMR, the Mk18, however many other random variants are floating around in various branch armories.

And that's just the 5.56 rifles the US military uses.

What was your original point again?

The M27 and M38 are HK designed DMR guns and not variants of the M16/M4. Even counting those the current number of in use standard issue rifles in the US military is not 19. Unlike all those weapons mentioned the AKM and AK74 variants are chambered in two different cartridges and the AK variants all run into compatability issues greater than the American M16 family. Why even bother maintaining 7.62x39 weapons when the 5.45 round is superior and Russia had several generations of peacetime to replace every AKM?

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Why even bother maintaining 7.62x39 weapons when the 5.45 round is superior and Russia had several generations of peacetime to replace every AKM?

7.62x39 has it's uses as the US military itself has found out, which led to all sorts of experiments like 6.8 SPC and .300 Blackout and a whole host of other calibers. It's more usable suppressed, it's better at barrier penetration, and so on and so forth.

Plus Russia has a shit ton of 7.62x39 ammo in stockpiles, why wouldn't they keep it around?

Unlike all those weapons mentioned the AKM and AK74 variants are chambered in two different cartridges and the AK variants all run into compatability issues greater than the American M16 family.

What compatibility issues?

The M27 and M38 are HK designed DMR guns and not variants of the M16/M4. Eben counting those the current number of in use standard issue rifles in the US military is not 19.

Yeah we haven't gotten into the other calibers yet, we're still on weapons in active service in the US military that use 5.56. I forgot the HK416, SCAR-L/MK16 and a couple others as well, just noticed. Sorry, it's hard keeping track of all this stuff. Are you ready to start adding stuff chambered in 7.62 NATO to the list?

 

[Scotched up Scott]

the m27 is an AR platform gun. the only real difference is a change to a short stroke piston instead of the mind numbingly retarded direct impingement system used by the stock AR, but for all intents and purposes its an AR

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Didnt they try to introduce 6.8mm in like 90s and failed miserably?

There were a few attempts around that time, I think that may have been the 6.8mm SPC which was designed in the early 00s.

 

[MG-34]

7.62x39 has it's uses as the US military itself has found out, which led to all sorts of experiments like 6.5 Sneedmore and .300 Blackout and a whole host of other calibers. It's more usable suppressed, it's better at barrier penetration, and so on and so forth.

Plus Russia has a shit ton of 7.62x39 ammo in stockpiles, why wouldn't they keep it around?


What compatibility issues?


Yeah we haven't gotten into the other calibers yet, we're still on weapons in active service in the US military that use 5.56. Are you ready to start adding stuff chambered in 7.62 NATO to the list?

Sneedmore and .300blk are meme calibers and more comparable to the Russian 9x39 round. The 7.62x39 round is obsoleted by 9x39 for the purposes you mentioned. There are several compatibility issues between AKM/AK74 variants such as the AK74M needing a different rear trunnion than the AKS-74 where with M16/M4 variants a receiver can easily accept whatever is in mass use. On your last point can you find a single example in the last 50 years of the US needing to issue riflemen two seperate cartridges for their standard issue rifle/carbine?

 

[BikeLock]

The M27 and M38 are HK designed DMR guns and not variants of the M16/M4. Even counting those the current number of in use standard issue rifles in the US military is not 19. Unlike all those weapons mentioned the AKM and AK74 variants are chambered in two different cartridges and the AK variants all run into compatability issues greater than the American M16 family. Why even bother maintaining 7.62x39 weapons when the 5.45 round is superior and Russia had several generations of peacetime to replace every AKM?

They are piston driven AR-15s loosely based on the AR-18 short stroke piston system (which is used on the fail and plastic aids G36), shut up, nigger.

 

[MG-34]

They are piston driven AR-15s loosely based on the AR-18 short stroke piston system (which is used on the fail and plastic aids G36), shut up, nigger.

Thank you for proving you can use Google, faggot.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Sneedmore and .300blk are meme calibers and more comparable to the Russian 9x39 round. The 7.62x39 round is obsoleted by 9x39 for the purposes you mentioned. There are several compatibility issues between AKM/AK74 variants such as the AK74M needing a different rear trunnion than the AKS-74 where with M16/M4 variants a receiver can easily accept what it needs to he whatever is in mass use. On your last point can you find a single example in the last 50 years of the US needing to issue riflemen two seperate cartridges for their standard issue rifle/carbine?

9x39 is a special purpose round and the guns made to use it are special purpose guns issued exclusively to special purpose units. Why would Russia melt down or scrap the literal millions of AKM family rifles it has, destroy the billions of 7.62x39 rounds it has, and then spend however much money making new 9x39 pattern rifles and stocking armories with them?

The 7.62x39 round is not obsoleted and likely won't be until there's no more 7.62 left on the planet. Out to 300 yards it's still just as lethal as it was when it was first made and used.

There are several compatibility issues between AKM/AK74 variants such as the AK74M needing a different rear trunnion than the AKS-74

Uhhhh OK? Yeah sidefolder stocks have a different rear trunnion than fixed stocks. If this is the best example you have then this shit is weaksauce brother, nobody is in the field scrounging around for a new rear trunnion for their rifle.

On your last point can you find a single example in the last 50 years of the US needing to issue riflemen two seperate cartridges for their standard issue rifle/carbine?

You're misrepresenting the situation with regards to AKMs and AK74's and playing word games. The AK74 is the "standard issue rifle". The AKM is not. It's used when it is needed or when it's given to units that are not part of the regular Army. The sorts of guys that also don't wear digiflora camo.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

US ammo

vs

Ruski ammo (the Russian ammo image is old so maybe not current)



As with any military ymmv

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Ruski ammo (the Russian ammo image is old so maybe not current)
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1/3 of the ammo in that list isn't used anymore.

I always hate how inconsistent this shit is. There's 3 flavors of 54R there for some reason, but only 1 of every other type. If you're going to show the full spectrum of ammo types show each variety of each caliber, like the US picture does (although it doesn't show everything either).

Neither picture is very good honestly.

 

[Scotched up Scott]

US ammo
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funnily enough it leaves out good ole .45 that's still used in the m45 meusoc. so its not even complete