Did the Confederate States of America do nothing wrong?

They didn't fight for this country. They fought for a country that they made quite clear wasn't this country, a fake and gay non-America that hasn't existed for over 150 years. Are there Italians who still simp for the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, or is this a uniquely American thing?

As for what they did wrong, they copied slave cooking and gave the world Southern "food." That's enough to justify war against them forever.

I kid, I kid. I work with a lot of guys from the South and have had to spend a lot of time there. The South is my favorite third-world country.
 
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Ending slavery in an independent Confederacy doesn't mean it would have been an easy process by any means. The "right" to own slaves was enshrined in its constitution unlike the US Constitution, and I don't think there was any way to actually amend it to eliminate that provision.

The sole purpose for the Confederacy's existence was to protect slavery, it was the sole reason for secession and the sole reason for the South's desire for independence. There were certainly people who supported the Confederacy for other reasons or out of loyalty to their state vs. the federal government but slavery was the over-arching issue.

It undoubtedly would have led to another civil war or even worse socialist or Communist agitation since slavery is about the most extreme exploitation of the working class possible.

Slavery in the traditional sense was on its way out by the time of the Civil War no matter what happened due to larger societal and technological shifts. Even if the CSA won it probably would have been abolished within a few generations. Can you imagine a world where you are watching a tiktok video and then you look to the side and you still see slaves working a cotton field?

They were racists who want to keep the poor black man enslaved forever.


Its kind of funny. If the south had its way blacks would continue to be shipped in and would be an even larger portion of the US population. White Supremacists despise Lincoln but he is the guy who fought for what they actually want against both the South and the North.
 
Its kind of funny. If the south had its way blacks would continue to be shipped in and would be an even larger portion of the US population. White Supremacists despise Lincoln but he is the guy who fought for what they actually want against both the South and the North.
It's a complicated issue. Lincoln himself refused compromise to prevent the American Civil War from taking place but at the same time up until his his death (four days before it to be specific) was supportive of plans of emancipation and deportation of slaves. Thomas Jefferson had similar sentiments of emancipation and deportation.

While we'll never know if Confederate leadership would of pursued such ideas themselves but it perhaps isn't totally outside the realm of possibility since these were people very concerned about the concepts of race and racial purity.
 
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Slavery in the traditional sense was on its way out by the time of the Civil War no matter what happened due to larger societal and technological shifts. Even if the CSA won it probably would have been abolished within a few generations. Can you imagine a world where you are watching a tiktok video and then you look to the side and you still see slaves working a cotton field?
You know with how widespread mobile phones are these days I wouldn't be surprised to see something come out of Mauretania like that. Or now Libya thanks to the brilliant NATO decision to overthrow Gaddafi with no follow-up plan on WTF to do afterwards.

In any case you're right it was on its way out in the South. The economics of slave labor just didn't make sense especially after cotton and other cash crops started to be cultivated with free labor in India and other parts of the British colonial empire. And manufacturing advanced or complicated products would be a disaster using slave labor, you can't really screw with the quality of picked cotton but you definitely can with an assembly line.

Its kind of funny. If the south had its way blacks would continue to be shipped in and would be an even larger portion of the US population. White Supremacists despise Lincoln but he is the guy who fought for what they actually want against both the South and the North.
And they'd be FOTB Africans assuming the other powers allowed them to traffic slaves from Africa.

Lincoln's assassination allowed the Radical Republicans to gain power and implement a much harsher Reconstruction on the South than he and other moderates had wanted. A lot of moderates (including Lincoln, initially) fully supported the idea of repatriating the freed slaves to Liberia and Sierra Leone.
 
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No. After all, the only thing they were fighting for was states' rights.
"States' rights to what" - a librtard asks.
"To keep negroes as slaves, you moron" - I reply.
 
You must understand that in the mind of a liberal, the worst thing the CSA did was not utilize a slave economy, but that they used niggers as slaves.
 
As for what they did wrong, they copied slave cooking and gave the world Southern "food." That's enough to justify war against them forever.
Ok but tell my you don’t enjoy fried chicken. Or that you don’t enjoy chicken and waffles.
Can you imagine a world where you are watching a tiktok video and then you look to the side and you still see slaves working a cotton field?
 
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They didn't win the war and they still kept grudges. If only the Confederacy was still realized as the dream come true compared the monstrosity the United States is today.
 
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The South was morally correct in secession since the federal government was wrong about states rights, but morally incorrect in that the main reason for it (at least according to CSA VP Alexander Stephens) was because rich people wanted to own slaves. But in many other ways the CSA was a very shitty country that was ran by rich dudes who owned hundreds of negros and deliberate impoverished their fellow whites. They were financed 100% by rich banker Jews from Charleston and Memphis and shit, had a Jew named Judah P. Benjamin on their money and as their number three guy, and had a lot of Anglo backing since Anglos funding wars was their modus operandi (to be fair, they funded both sides).

The plantation elite were absolute faggots too, a bunch of rich queers who larped as Greeks and Romans or English noblemen or Bible Jews. It's not surprising they were BTFO in elections by actual white people decades later. Or that Buck Breaking was unironically real since some of them were gay and would have their male house slaves as lovers. Absolutely sick people. Slavery is nothing short of a degenerate social system.
They didn't win the war and they still kept grudges. If only the Confederacy was still realized as the dream come true compared the monstrosity the United States is today.
It's the origin of the problem, but the real problem was definitely the 14th Amendment which legitimized the expansion of federal power. It was the truest form of constitutional amendment since its entire purpose was to wreck the actual Constitution. It's an absolute miracle this country wasn't consumed by the federal bureaucracy until the New Deal (and even FDR wasn't so bad compared to what the federal bureaucracy evolved into as early as the late 60s thanks to LBJ).

I will admit that Lincoln's expansion of federal power wasn't all bad, since ending slavery was beneficial to whites and the Southern economy and Lincoln's proposal to send them all back to Africa (or Haiti) would've been incredibly beneficial for both the US and Africa/Haiti in the long-term.
 
They didn't fight for this country. They fought for a country that they made quite clear wasn't this country, a fake and gay non-America that hasn't existed for over 150 years. Are there Italians who still simp for the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, or is this a uniquely American thing?
There are Germans larping as Principality of Reuss-Gera, which I would argue is even more ridiculous. Theyre called Reichsburgers, if you're curious.

Reuss-Gera_in_the_German_Reich_(1871).svg.png
Historical Principality of Reuss-Gera. You might have to zoom to see it. Sorry for OT.
 
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Yes. I like 'countries' that didn't get burnt to the ground, and don't start fights they can't finish.

?? If it would have been so easy then whence the war?
Thank you for confirming you hate the USA too.
Ending slavery in an independent Confederacy doesn't mean it would have been an easy process by any means. The "right" to own slaves was enshrined in its constitution unlike the US Constitution, and I don't think there was any way to actually amend it to eliminate that provision.

The sole purpose for the Confederacy's existence was to protect slavery, it was the sole reason for secession and the sole reason for the South's desire for independence. There were certainly people who supported the Confederacy for other reasons or out of loyalty to their state vs. the federal government but slavery was the over-arching issue.

It undoubtedly would have led to another civil war or even worse socialist or Communist agitation since slavery is about the most extreme exploitation of the working class possible.
You see, Stan, regardless of whether or not something is 'easy', staring down the utter and complete end of your economic model is scary and hard to deal with. One could equate it to the necessity for journalists to learn to code.
 
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They stood against the power and glory of the United States of America, they done fucked up
 
No. After all, the only thing they were fighting for was states' rights.
"States' rights to what" - a librtard asks.
"To keep negroes as slaves, you moron" - I reply.

Things that states were forbidden to do according to the Confederate constitution:
1. States within the Confederacy were not allowed to pass laws outlawing slavery.
2. Confederate states were not allowed to secede from the Confederacy.
Really doing a great job with that whole “State’s rights” and “not based on slavery” thing, guys.
 
2. Confederate states were not allowed to secede from the Confederacy.
Really doing a great job with that whole “State’s rights” and “not based on slavery” thing, guys.
That is an interesting thing to think about.

Here is an article going over when Confederate legislators debated secession from the Confederacy as an idea, especially in regards to the CSA's constitution.

Confederate Legislators Debated Secession … from the Confederacy!​

The Confederacy is remembered for two issues: slavery and secession. Enslavement was clearly codified in the Confederate Constitution, but the question of secession was surprisingly left vague. That does not mean it was not debated, and Confederate leadership actually examined the concept of secession from their own government.

In January 1863 news reached London of a secret plot to “induce Texas to secede from the Southern Confederacy.”[1] It was quickly dismissed as hearsay, but one year later, secession became political ammunition in North Carolina’s gubernatorial race. Incumbent – and ultimate victor – Zebulon Vance seemed murky regarding the concept of North Carolina potentially leaving the Confederacy, speaking on the matter in different viewpoints depending on where he campaigned. In one speech in Wilkesboro, Vance proclaimed that if North Carolina seceded, he would “not go with his state,” while in another in Fayetteville Vance conjectured “if the fortunes of war turn against us,” North Carolina’s secession “may become necessary.”[2] In other speeches, Vance pinned such sentiments on opposition candidate William Holden as the man who might facilitate North Carolina’s secession from the Confederacy.[3]

Could Confederate states secede? Seems like a moot question. Since the Confederacy formed via states seceding from the United States, it seems such power was inherent. But if secession was an unstated right of states, was it incontestable? Article VI, clause 6 of the Confederacy’s constitution copies the U.S. Tenth Amendment, stating “The powers not delegated to the Confederate States by the Constitution, not prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people therof.”[4] Perhaps this clause provided the protection and authorization of a state wishing to secede, as is it not forbidden in that constitution and thus became a reserved power of states. But if this same reserved power claim could be implied from the U.S. Constitution, why did Abraham Lincoln oppose secession of slaveholding states?

Another part of the Confederate Constitution provides a counter. Article IV, clause 3 states the Confederacy “may acquire new territory,” outlines how territorial governments should organize, and notes that enslavement “shall be recognized” by the territory’s government.”[5] Territory was added, in the form of Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Arizona, but nothing in that clause claims the Confederacy could detach or lose territory.

One final part of the Confederate Constitution hints secession is implied: the preamble. The Confederate Constitution’s preamble denotes each state joined the new country “acting in its sovereignty and independent character.”[6] Case closed, but perhaps not quite, for the preamble also declares those sovereign states are uniting to “form a permanent federal government.”[7] Could a permanent new federal government be dissolved through secession, and would a state seceding actually dissolve said government? The preamble certainly adds weight to an implied right of secession.

An overt statement in the Confederate Constitution would certainly provide clarity. The word secede does not appear in the document, but it almost did. The Confederate Constitution’s framers debated settling the ambiguity. On March 7, 1861, Georgian Benjamin H. Hill proposed a new article to the draft Confederate Constitution. Three clauses in Section 2 of that proposed article sought to clarify secession:

1. States wishing “to withdraw from this Confederation” needed to call a convention of citizens to formally explain “the causes of such desire to withdraw.”
2. If Congress cannot address those causes and desires to secede, it “shall arrange with such State an equitable division of the public property, and a peaceable withdrawal from the Confederation.”
3. States leaving must “pay a due proportion of the public debt existing at the time of such withdrawal” as well as “expenditures made, or liabilities incurred by the Confederate States, in acquiring, securing, fortifying or defending the territory or jurisdiction of such State.”[8]

Hill’s proposal was immediately amended and reworded by James Chesnut (noted diarist Mary Chesnut’s husband): “The right of a State to secede from the Confederacy shall not be denied. And whenever any State, through a convention of its people, shall dissolve the connection between it and its confederates, it shall be the duty of the President to withdraw all forces from within the territorial limits of such State, and permit it peacefully to withdraw.”[9]

The Hill-Chesnut proposal was ordered printed but was never debated by the proto-Confederate Congress again. Four days later, the Confederate Constitution was approved without the article clarifying secession. Perhaps it was excluded, as Confederate Constitutional scholar Marshall DeRosa explains, because expressly denoting secession from the Confederacy would itself admit that the U.S. Constitution, which Confederates claim implied the right, thus forbade it.[10]

Clarifying whether Confederate states could secede reemerged in 1863 by Georgia Senator Herschel Johnson. On February 5, Johnson introduced Senate Bill 33, proposing a two-part constitutional amendment. It provided an avenue for a redress of grievances by states against perceived unconstitutional federal action by allowing states to form conventions to declare Congressional action unconstitutional. If done, Congress would then “call a Convention of the States … and if not affirmed by two-thirds of said conventions, the vote to be taken by States, it shall be void.” The second part of the proposal stated that if states worried about unconstitutional action by Congress could not be redressed satisfactorily, “and it determine to secede from the Confederacy, it shall do so in peace, but shall be entitled to its pro rata share of the public property and liable for its pro rata share of the public debt to be determined and settled by negotiation.”[11]

Word of Johnson’s proposed amendment immediately hit Richmond’s Times-Dispatch, but Johnson withdrew the bill from consideration on February 7.[12] Many reporters editorialized the proposed amendment might “prove one of the best guarantees for the permanency of the Confederate government,” so there was rampant speculation about the amendment’s withdrawal.[13] Savannah’s Republican and Charleston’s Mercury were heavily critical, claiming the amendment was “superfluous.”[14]

Another perusal of the Confederate Constitution explains the amendment’s rapid withdrawal. It clarifies the new country’s amendment process: “Upon the demand of any three States, legally assembled in their several conventions, the Congress shall summon a convention of all the States, to take into consideration such amendments … and should any of the proposed amendments to the Constitution be agreed on by the said convention, voting by States, and the same be ratified by the Legislatures of two-thirds of the several States, or by conventions in two-thirds thereof … they shall thenceforward form a part of this Constitution.”[15]

As it turns out, Johnson had no right to propose a Confederate constitutional amendment, something the senator readily admitted in his memoir and the Charleston Mercury criticized him on. “At the time I introduced the bill,” Johnson acknowledged, “not having examined especially the point, that the Congress had the right, as that of the United States has, to propose amendments to the Confederate Constitution. But Mr. Yancy [Senator William L. Yancey] of Alabama called my attention to the change and hence, I withdrew my bill.”[16] Johnson also penned a newspaper editorial admitting his ignorance of the very constitution he swore to protect, while defending his actions in pursuit of “good government, stable government, [and] enduring government.”[17]

So twice Confederate legislative bodies examined the right to secede from the Confederacy and proposed codifying it in their constitution. Both proposals were abandoned. Ultimately the question of secession from the Confederacy was moot, as the country dissolved before this principle was ever tested. Thus, the question of whether Confederate states could secede from their new country will always remain heavily implied, but not explicitly confirmed.
 
Things that states were forbidden to do according to the Confederate constitution:
1. States within the Confederacy were not allowed to pass laws outlawing slavery.
2. Confederate states were not allowed to secede from the Confederacy.
Really doing a great job with that whole “State’s rights” and “not based on slavery” thing, guys.
Did you read the blurred part of my comment?
 
Slavery in the traditional sense was on its way out by the time of the Civil War no matter what happened due to larger societal and technological shifts. Even if the CSA won it probably would have been abolished within a few generations. Can you imagine a world where you are watching a tiktok video and then you look to the side and you still see slaves working a cotton field?
This is an old myth. The slave system in the 1850s was extremely profitable (one of the best investments you could make in America), was starting to be adapted (successfully) into manufacturing and mining, and was expanding with Southern Fire Eaters radicalizing more and more and state law changing to reflect that. They were cracking down on manumission, cracking down on abolitionist speech, and had even become prouder of their system. Enshrined the right to slavery in their Constitution and made it the ideological basis of their state.

The main experts on that are supposed to be Fogel and Engermann, "Time on the Cross." Yankees (who approached the subject matter with the same incredible arrogance and unjustified sense of superiority that they did with everything) assumed that slavery was an inefficient and doomed system. Eventually Southerners integrated that into their view of it as it was helpful to recasting it as some sort of romantic agrarian revolt or some libertarian revolt (depending on the specific flavor). The idea stuck around for a long time after it had been discredited. I grew up hearing/believing the same thing.

Its kind of funny. If the south had its way blacks would continue to be shipped in and would be an even larger portion of the US population. White Supremacists despise Lincoln but he is the guy who fought for what they actually want against both the South and the North.
CSA banned the slave trade.

But I agree, Republicans of the day had essentially two wings, people who hated Blacks and didn't want to live around them and people who loved them and obsessed over them in a weird way (abolitionists were viewed with scorn similar to SJWs today). The former (which I think of as free soilers based on the old party) was much larger in numbers but the latter had more sway over politics.

In general, when you add in trade policy, general attitude towards religious minorities (Catholics and Mormons), having literally expelled the Jews from Tennessee, expansionism into the West, saber rattling towards other nations, strong central government, hostility to poor immigrants, and so on, the Republican platform, the Free Soil stuff, was much more like fascism.

The CSA was alien. There simply isn't anything you can meaningfully compare it to today because its society was so unique, even in world history, that it stands alone, an object of morose fascination.

@Save the Loli I think they did a massive amount of damage to the cause of secession. They guaranteed that secession would always be mentally tied to something indefensible in the minds of the American people. That one principle that should have been the cornerstone of American society became permanently tainted, even if it's irrational, even if the new secession proposal is completely unrelated in any way to that subject matter, is automatically going to bring up comparisons to the Confederacy, leave a foul taste in normie's mouths, and give ammo to Federal bootlickers.

They likewise ruined Southern nationalism as a concept, even though a South without slavery would have still - I believe - been radically different from the North.


I was looking the other day at census data for a corner of a Deep South state, a place where nearly half of all families owned slaves. And in this area (a few counties put together), the top five men owned, among them, more slaves than the bottom 300 of slaveowners. And those 300 slaveowners were themselves upper class, because they owned one slave each, which set them apart from the majority that owned none.

A whole nation was destroyed, in fire, for that.

The sole purpose for the Confederacy's existence was to protect slavery, it was the sole reason for secession and the sole reason for the South's desire for independence. There were certainly people who supported the Confederacy for other reasons or out of loyalty to their state vs. the federal government but slavery was the over-arching issue.
I disagree with this. It wasn't the sole reason. It was the overarching issue, but there were others.
I also believe - and this is just speculative, we'll never know - that slavery acted as a sort of "lightning rod" of public attention. The tariff issues that people like Thomas DiLorenzo claim caused the war, the internal improvements, the "federal government," would have mattered a lot more, I think, if slavery didn't exist for everyone to fixate on. If there had been no slavery to worry about, but the agrarian/industrial split remained, they would have presumably put a lot more mental energy into hating each other over that.

So to me, I see it as that slavery was the issue, and a confrontation was inevitable regardless. I think you can see that in how every Latin American state over this time had its own civil war over states rights, with the rights in question changing from country to country. Even Switzerland, in this period, had such a war. Clearly there's a more general issue with federalism that this kind of thing is inevitable.
 
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Losing a war that YOU CHOSE TO START is probably the most "wrong" thing any nation can ever do.
 
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