Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

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Which is Better

  • Chicken Little

    Votes: 433 27.5%
  • Hunchback 2

    Votes: 57 3.6%
  • A slow death

    Votes: 1,086 68.9%

  • Total voters
    1,576
Frozen also honestly lacked that Disney magic that it was trying too hard to return to while claiming it was bad/needed to be subverted at the same time. "Let It Go" is the only thing people remember not because it was blasted everywhere, but because that sequence was the ONLY sequence that had that Disney Magic™.

Legit, they should've just kept to Elsa being the Snow Queen villain. If they wanted a redemption arc for her or turn her into a sympathetic character, they should've planned that out better instead of getting that "Oh shit" moment halfway through production after recording her villain song and scrambling to do rewrites while on a strict time limit. Jennifer Lee never once saw her job as overseeing animation, she saw it as your typical live-action production and thought they were interchangeable, and her influence in the company is going to take years to undo.

Also the yurifags on Tumblr and Twitter turning Elsa and Anna into lesbians instead of sisters is just fucking disgusting, but the movie's take on Sisterly Love >>> True Love truly didn't help. (Sometimes I do wonder if I would've seen the movie differently if I had a sister instead of brothers, though.)
 
Frozen also honestly lacked that Disney magic that it was trying too hard to return to while claiming it was bad/needed to be subverted at the same time.
Frozen 1 was also one of the first examples of blatantly cucking the main guy of his role as a savior, by having the damsel in distress "rescue herself". Future works would be much worse, with Joker 2 being a perfect example of the "humiliation ritual" applied against the main hero.
 
I'm saying Frozen is shit because of the general shitty writing
It was the stupidest movie Disney had ever put out.

Stupid plot points:

Two modern (relative to typical disney princess time periods) royal children had zero tutors, chaperone, friends, or relatives and spent their entire childhoods alone with no preparation for their future duties despite Elsa clearly becoming queen with no issue. (This is a minor one but still stupid)

Hans desperately wanting to be king but immediately trying to kill the beautiful princess who is madly in love with him which would put him out of the ruling family AND would mean no legitimate heirs, something multiple countries have had wars over for millenia which he would know about.

The absolute worst and most obvious, thinking you could just say, "hey, we got married while no one was looking and also then she died but said I could be king so I'm king now, ok?"

Even without a knowledge of how incredibly important marriage contracts, ect have been throughout history, this wouldn't fly in even the most basic scenario. Saying "That girl I went on a date with once just died and said I can have all her stuff while she was dying with no one else around, where are her car keys?"

It's like the worst idiots on Forensic Files.
 
It was the stupidest movie Disney had ever put out.

Stupid plot points:

Two modern (relative to typical disney princess time periods) royal children had zero tutors, chaperone, friends, or relatives and spent their entire childhoods alone with no preparation for their future duties despite Elsa clearly becoming queen with no issue. (This is a minor one but still stupid)

Hans desperately wanting to be king but immediately trying to kill the beautiful princess who is madly in love with him which would put him out of the ruling family AND would mean no legitimate heirs, something multiple countries have had wars over for millenia which he would know about.

The absolute worst and most obvious, thinking you could just say, "hey, we got married while no one was looking and also then she died but said I could be king so I'm king now, ok?"

Even without a knowledge of how incredibly important marriage contracts, ect have been throughout history, this wouldn't fly in even the most basic scenario. Saying "That girl I went on a date with once just died and said I can have all her stuff while she was dying with no one else around, where are her car keys?"

It's like the worst idiots on Forensic Files.
Yeah, I think Hans is one of the first and worst cases of a Disney twist villain. Could’ve easily had the sniveling Weaselton guy pull all of his evil actions like trying to get Elsa executed. If you really want to keep the “sisterly love > romantic love” thing, just have Hans kiss her, only for it to not work because they’ve literally only known each other for a day and disappointedly realize that was just infatuation. Would it be good? Probably not, but it’d arguably be better.
 
It's really disrespectful to take Hans Christan Andersen's story and then make a character based on him and make him a villain.

This wouldn't have happened with a black writer.
 
Yeah, I think Hans is one of the first and worst cases of a Disney twist villain. Could’ve easily had the sniveling Weaselton guy pull all of his evil actions like trying to get Elsa executed. If you really want to keep the “sisterly love > romantic love” thing, just have Hans kiss her, only for it to not work because they’ve literally only known each other for a day and disappointedly realize that was just infatuation. Would it be good? Probably not, but it’d arguably be better.
Or just have Hans planning on staying married but constantly undermining or trying to usurp power from them while trapping Anna in a loveless marriage for children. I don't even mind him trying to bump off Elsa but it doesn't make any sense for him to kill Anna. Marriage is a massive deal in just about every monarchy both for the continuation of the royal family and the stability of the nation as a whole. That's why it's such a common trope in fairytales and fantasy.
 
For clarity, I'm not saying Frozen is shit specifically because of Let It Go.

I'm saying Frozen is shit because of the general shitty writing that had an idea (importance of sisterly love) it didn't know how to develop so it just didn't develop it and instead told us it was important while the movie wasted half its screentime beating up on a trope (love at first sight) that hadn't been seriously used since 1989.

And its twist that is so poorly implemented it's obvious and makes no sense at the same time.

It's so busy patting itself on the back for being soooo much better than those beloved classic films that it forgot it was supposed to use that hand to write a coherent movie.
Screw it, I’ll be the Frozen fan today.

No, the conflict of the film was very much centered around the sisters. It began with them being close and Elsa accidentally hurting Anna, which kicks off the entire plot. Do You Want to Build a Snowman builds on their distant and ‘cold’ relationship where Anna tries to have some connection with her sister only for her sister to remain behind a closed door at all times.

Hans works as a strong showcase of Anna’s lack of connection and is used as a wedge between the two sisters. Anna is so desperate for any form of affection that she jumps at the first man she sees that will give it to her. Elsa brings a level head into the situation that she shouldn’t be marrying a man she just met, but Anna takes it as Elsa continuing to disapprove and act cold towards her. This causes a lashing out where Anna pretty much shoves Hans to the side to tell off her sister for years of neglect.

The two sisters and their distant relationship makes up the entire core of the film. Anna’s mission is to get Elsa back, while Elsa is trying to isolate from causing further harm after lashing out. This then culminates in the end where Elsa and Anna realize their relationship was true love, not in the romantic sense, but in the familial sense. It makes the film come full circle.

Also, should be noted that Olaf was the creation of both sisters, so much of his actions were indirectly connecting them, including his more vague speech about what love is.

Two modern (relative to typical disney princess time periods) royal children had zero tutors, chaperone, friends, or relatives and spent their entire childhoods alone with no preparation for their future duties despite Elsa clearly becoming queen with no issue. (This is a minor one but still stupid)
The parents didn’t know how to handle Elsa. The girl nearly killed their preschooler and there is no telling how people would have reacted knowing about her powers. The dinner scene with the Duke highlights the general fear she would cause if known, so it makes sense the castle was under lockdown till they could figure out how to conceal Elsa. Not saying the parents were correct, but it was a fairly complicated situation that doesn’t have a true right answer.

Their daughter turned out to be a weapon of mass destruction in a sense, I don’t know how anyone would reasonably go about dealing with that.


Legit, they should've just kept to Elsa being the Snow Queen villain. If they wanted a redemption arc for her or turn her into a sympathetic character, they should've planned that out better instead of getting that "Oh shit" moment halfway through production after recording her villain song and scrambling to do rewrites while on a strict time limit. Jennifer Lee never once saw her job as overseeing animation, she saw it as your typical live-action production and thought they were interchangeable, and her influence in the company is going to take years to undo.
Frozen could have been great with minor changes…

Hans is the most glaring issue and even he feels like small reworks could have improved him. Firstly, remove the “if only someone loved you.” You could easily play out the scene with the kiss not working and having him go off to find Elsa to try and find any solution. You can even have him and Elsa come to the conclusion that Hans needs to kill her to save Anna, just rework the sword swinging scene to seem more regretful on Hans part, like he really did exhaust all options. It fits with his character throughout the first half and like the rest of the film, adds some layer of complication to him and the situation.
This would then need to lead to Anna needing to adult up and tell Hans he isn’t the one during the ending. If Disney had the balls to play out a break up without doing the usual contrived Hollywood, my former Ex is abusive/evil, I would have a lot of respect for them. It would be a formula change, similar to Enchanted, but it works given the context of the film. She barely knew Hans and jumped to quickly into a relationship, only to find that Christoph was a better fit.

For a second change, either remove or minimize the role of the Trolls. Jesus, their segments were the worst of Reneissance Disney leaking in. They did not need that musical segment.
 
The parents didn’t know how to handle Elsa.
They would probably do what royals do with all there other children that cause problems, pack them off to boarding school or " boarding school". They also would still have to teach them in some capacity, especially the normal Anna.

They also wouldn't lock down the castle unless they planned to do all the sweeping and cooking. They would have confined her to her apartment/rooms in the castle or sent her off.

They also were not shown to do much of anything to conceal her or remove her from succession. They aren't really shown doing much of anything, at all after the initial scene of her forgetting. Elsa's sequestration seems entirely voluntary because it's her repeatedly telling Anna to go away. If they wanted to show the parental involvement they should have actually showed it, with a parent gently pulling her away from the door after Elsa rebuffed her, or maybe stopping them having fun, or anything. I admit it's been a while since I've seen the film but the parents are pretty much non entities until they die, in which they continue to have no contributions to the story.


Their daughter turned out to be a weapon of mass destruction in a sense, I don’t know how anyone would reasonably go about dealing with that
Probably not letting her be the crowned heir for a start. Letting at least one head minister or advisor in on it for a second.


(I'm not trying to say you shouldn't like the movie, I think the relationship between the two sisters is a lot of fun and I think it is a beautiful film visually and Lord knows have a soft spot for some very stupid movies. I think the characters deserved a much better plot and its success has only encouraged more poor writing from Disney, much to its detriment. )
 
Legit, they should've just kept to Elsa being the Snow Queen villain
I really wish they had kept the mirror shard element, maybe making Elsa be afflicted by it instead. It's a poignant element that I think could have added a layer of depth with Elsa only seeing her flaws with the warmth of her sister's love melting the shards. ❤️
 
They also wouldn't lock down the castle unless they planned to do all the sweeping and cooking. They would have confined her to her apartment/rooms in the castle or sent her off.
They literally lock down the castle in the film, even say they are reducing staff as per the Troll elder's suggestion.

They also were not shown to do much of anything to conceal her or remove her from succession. They aren't really shown doing much of anything, at all after the initial scene of her forgetting. Elsa's sequestration seems entirely voluntary because it's her repeatedly telling Anna to go away. If they wanted to show the parental involvement they should have actually showed it, with a parent gently pulling her away from the door after Elsa rebuffed her, or maybe stopping them having fun, or anything. I admit it's been a while since I've seen the film but the parents are pretty much non entities until they die, in which they continue to have no contributions to the story.
Taking out that this is a Disney film, so not going to find real politics, the father makes it clear that he believes Elsa will learn to control it. He's naively optimistic as he clearly cares about his daughter. The entire segment after the Trolls save Anna makes it clear the parents are taking steps to ensure her secret is safe. No one predicted they would die as early as they did, hell the trip that did them in was them looking for answers for Elsa's condition so she could lead. Even before that, her father gave her the gloves to try and mitigate the powers. They certainly did more than what is being represented, they too were exhausting all options.

Hard to find clips, but the end of this one makes it clear the parents put everything into motion:

Also, just from Googling their death, you get this:
King Agnarr and Queen Iduna, the parents of Elsa and Anna, died in a shipwreck during a storm in the Dark Sea while attempting to travel to Ahtohallan to find the source of Elsa’s powers

Brief scene, but they definitely did everything they could to help Elsa.
 
For a second change, either remove or minimize the role of the Trolls. Jesus, their segments were the worst of Reneissance Disney leaking in. They did not need that musical segment.
Holy shit why were these useless things even in the movie to begin with. Seriously. Everyone complains about the Gargoyles, but you could at least argue they had a place at Quasimodo's side.

I don't know which characters are more useless, the parents or the Trolls. They're all fuck-ups.
 
Holy shit why were these useless things even in the movie to begin with. Seriously. Everyone complains about the Gargoyles, but you could at least argue they had a place at Quasimodo's side.

I don't know which characters are more useless, the parents or the Trolls. They're all fuck-ups.
They were there to feed magic exposition. If they didn’t vague speak about Elsa’s powers, non of the story would be set into motion. The parents were actually proactive, just unable to comprehend the situation, meanwhile the trolls blatantly sold them on imprisoning Elsa and keeping the sisters apart even after saying fear would be her greatest enemy.
 
reducing staff
Reduced staff isn't zero staff, which is what is depicted. Show, don't tell.
father makes it clear that he believes Elsa will learn to control it.
And then does absolutely nothing about it their entire childhoods and adolescence.
taking steps to ensure her secret is safe
What steps? What are we visually shown in a visual medium.
father gave her the gloves to try and mitigate the powers
This is possibly the lowest effort thing I could think of besides doing nothing. Seriously, this is an adult with the resources of a kingdom who presumably loves his child and the best he can do is some gloves, which they would wear anyway because they are in Norway.
They certainly did more than what is being represented, they too were exhausting all options.
There is no proof they did anything, because this is a visual medium and the girls made zero references to any form of help they gave them. Honestly, your points are lowering my opinion of the film further.
 
The parents were actually proactive, just unable to comprehend the situation
The parents had how many years to figure out what to do with Elsa's powers since she had them from birth? It just sounds like they tried to ignore it until Anna almost died from it and then decided they had to do something.
 
The parents had how many years to figure out what to do with Elsa's powers since she had them from birth? It just sounds like they tried to ignore it until Anna almost died from it and then decided they had to do something.
Wild guess, even after searching, Elsa wasn’t a problem till she hurt Anna.

The beginning has her act very competent with her powers and seem way more in control. In many ways, it foreshadowed that her confidence and love from her sister was the answer, but I don’t blame the parents (nor Elsa) for seeing their child get one-shotted and immediately begin fretting. Elsa’s powers are tied to her emotions, she needed positive reinforcement, but that one incident really turned the tides on her and from there it just spiraled naturally. Parents try and fix her to never have situation happen again, this reinforces Elsa’s negative thoughts, powers get worse causing even more negative actions to take place.

From there, the rest of the film and the parent’s actions make sense. Elsa needs to gain control of her powers, so we need to place her in an environment away from everyone, including Anna who is naturally the most likely to throw herself into danger again. This isolation makes her even more out-of-control, obviously, which reinforces the need for it. Emotions were the key to why she is losing control, so “Conceal don’t feel.” When that doesn’t work, try gloves so she literally cannot feel. Once all options are exhausted from a training perspective, then the parent embark to find another solution as the Trolls’ ideas were not working. Should highlight, the trolls, the parents one view into magic, basically told them to isolate her after placing fear into all of them that she would be hated if seen, so they were following direct orders.

Edit: The dad makes it sound like more was happening before after the incident when he says it is getting out of hand, then told the troll her powers are growing/getting worse. We don’t see the before, but once more, would have to guess things were decently manageable till the incident, then after they got the full taste of the danger.
 
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A friend of mine is dragging me to Disneyland again in May, this time it's for their yearly "May The Fourth" Star Wars celebrations and only so he has a higher chance of getting this popcorn bucket themed around Jabba's sail barge.
Jabbas-Sail-Barge-Popcorn-Bucket-and-More-Star-Wars-Novelties-Are-Headed-to-Disneyland-Startin...jpg
And I've become hooked on going to first Pin Tuesdays of the month, if I can't get one of the KH pins that drop I can enjoy some quality lolcow watching whist enjoying the theme parks.
 
To be honest, the trolls were just a large part of the problems in the movie. If I didn't know any better, I'd say they were just fucking with the royal family to see just how much they'd screw themselves over.
They apparently spirited away Kristoff when he was a baby, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're at least mischievous in nature.
 
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