Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

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Which is Better

  • Chicken Little

    Votes: 433 27.4%
  • Hunchback 2

    Votes: 57 3.6%
  • A slow death

    Votes: 1,088 68.9%

  • Total voters
    1,578
I'm old enough to remember how a bunch of chuckleheads tired to make pseudo progressive critiques of Disney films during the early 2000s and 2010s.

I think they used to be good at making films that could go either way depending on what perspective you had.

Look at the old cartoon, Lambert The Sheepish Lion.

The lion is clearly other by his fellow kin because he's different from them and they constantly make fun of them, but at the end he saves them and becomes like a national hero to the sheep.

This simple story has more going for than a lot of the stuff you see today.

What Disney needs to do right now is to channel that early 2000s energy, and starts doing experimental films that are nothing like their current ones to distance themselves.

A rebranding is an order, but musicals may not be saved unless you're a fan of what's currently on Broadway right now.
1. There used to be competition between cartoon network / NICK / Disney before they all collapsed.

2. we had that twice but a corporation is a corporation
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TLDR: they mixed the streams of boomerang and the current Cartoon network ( now went from channel to streaming services)
......
Disney channel / Toon Disney/-Disney XD/

Disney XD, similarly born of a merger between Jetix and Toon Disney, was formerly available around the world. Most of the international Disney XD networks have been closed down from 2019, due to the launch of Disney+.
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Jasmine is sexualized, it's not the end of the world, it doesn't mean she isn't a cool, relatable character, and it's not a sin to sexualize cartoon characters, and it doesn't mean the character designer wanted to fuck his sister (probbaly means he didn't have a lot of female friends)

But saying it is just fact. Not a lot of disney heroines are to that extent. There's Jasmine, who plays seductress to distract Jafar, Esmeralda (apparently medieval gypsies invented poledancing) and to a lesser extend Pocahontas (there's a bunch ofcontent online, they explain that they wanted her to look adult, sexy, athletic and they modeled her after supermodels like Naomi Campbell and Christie Turlington, among others)

Compare and contrast with, idk, Belle, Rapunzel, Tiana, the Frozen broads...

And the description of the Arab World in Aladdin does feel orientalist, "exterior", like a tourist trap, like a country described by foreigners to that country. If you can't relate to that, try and think at the way americans are described in foreign medias like Anime. And if you don't watch anime, imagine if Americans were described only as burly blond dude who would wear only star-spangled clothes and eat only burgers. It's a bit like that.

The Original Aladdin story is supposed to happen in China, you have some vintage pictures books from before the 90's they take their cues from China for the designs. (They are often hilariously racists, but for other reasons )

It would be cool if someone was to post the full NYT article (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movies/disney-wish-director-veerasunthorn.html) they are asking me to support journalism and i would rather not.
 
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The Original Aladdin story is supposed to happen in China, you have a lot of vintage pictures books from before the 90's they take their cues from China for the designs. (They are often hilariously racists, but for other reasons than )

It would be cool if someone was to post the full NYT article (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movies/disney-wish-director-veerasunthorn.html) they are asking me to support journalism and i would rather not.
1001 Nights, where Aladdin comes from is hilariously racist. The king/sultan/whatever who marries Schererazade after murdering a bunch of wives after the marriage night got started because his first wife was fucking an African slave.
 
1001 Nights, where Aladdin comes from is hilariously racist. The king/sultan/whatever who marries Schererazade after murdering a bunch of wives after the marriage night got started because his first wife was fucking an African slave.
There's no Aladdin in the original 1001 nights, no Ali Baba and no Simbad either.
But there's a not insignificant amount of fucking. Lots of unfaithfull royalty
 
It would be cool if someone was to post the full NYT article (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movies/disney-wish-director-veerasunthorn.html) they are asking me to support journalism and i would rather not.
Sure. It's not much, they're making a half-assed attempt to connect Fawn's fairly conventional career to the plot of Wish, but there are a few nuggets in there.

Disney Rejected Her a Few Times. The ʻWishʼ Director Just Kept Trying.
After she was finally hired by the studio, Fawn Veerasunthorn worked her way up the ranks, and has applied that lesson of perseverance to her new film.

By Ashley Spencer Nov. 24, 2023

At the turn of the century, a young medical student in Thailand mailed a handwritten letter to a Disney animator in Florida.

The student, Fawn Veerasunthorn, had attended a guest lecture by this visual effects animator, Paitoon Ratanasirintrawoot, years earlier at her Bangkok high school (his alma mater). She’d since graduated and was miserable in her first year of med school. But, she wondered, might he have advice on how she could switch careers, move to the United States and follow in his footsteps at Disney?

He wrote back with his email address and they struck up a correspondence, as he answered her questions, which ranged from “What is a portfolio?” and “Where did you go to college?” to “Do girls really work in animation?” and “Is this safe?”

At the time, the animation industry in their home country was small. “Not many people from Thailand even have a dream of working in animation, let alone at Disney,” said Ratanasirintrawoot, who counts “The Lion King,” “Mulan” and “Lilo & Stitch” among his credits. “But she was really determined.”

Spurred by that determination, Veerasunthorn dropped out of med school, moved across the Pacific for art school and pushed past multiple Disney rejections until she eventually got her foot in the door in 2011.

She’s spent the past 12 years climbing the ranks of Walt Disney Animation Studios: serving as a story artist — visualizing and sketching out how a script will translate onscreen — on “Frozen,” “Moana” and “Zootopia,” and leading a team as the head of story on “Raya and the Last Dragon.”

Now, Veerasunthorn is making her directorial debut alongside Chris Buck on “Wish” (in theaters), a tribute to the company’s legacy on it 100th anniversary.

The musical fairy tale follows 17-year-old Asha (voiced by Ariana DeBose), who makes a wish to improve the plight of her people in Rosas, a fictional kingdom ruled by the tyrannical King Magnifico (Chris Pine).

“Everyone keeps talking about, ‘Aren’t you stressed? It’s 100! How do you uphold that legacy?’” Veerasunthorn said. “But at some point, I felt like, ‘Oh, we can turn this energy into excitement.’”

During an interview last month at the studio’s headquarters in Burbank, Calif., the 41-year-old director — wearing oversize magenta glasses and baby pink-accented sneakers — laughed frequently and verged on tears more than once. Not unlike the characters she brings to life, her energy was infectious.

That capacity for emotion, said Disney Animation’s chief creative officer, Jennifer Lee, became a hallmark of Veerasunthorn’s storytelling early on.

Lee first took note of Veerasunthorn when they worked together on “Frozen.” Both women had only recently arrived at Disney, but Veerasunthorn carried herself with confidence in chaotic production meetings, where team members jockey to have their ideas heard.

“She would always cut through with something that was so clear and to the point,” Lee said. “If I could see her nodding, I’d be like, I’m in a good place because I can see that Fawn’s on board. She’s a great barometer.”

On “Zootopia,” Veerasunthorn oversaw the poignant goodbye scene between Judy Hopps and her bunny family at the train station. For “Moana,” she worked on the opening village song, when Moana dances with her grandmother. And on “Frozen 2,” she helped actualize the climactic scene when Elsa realizes she’s been hearing her mother’s call.

“Wish” employs a different style of animation for Disney, combining the look of traditional watercolors with modern computer animation. The blend is meant to invoke the art of hand-drawn films like “Sleeping Beauty,” and there are numerous references to Disney classics throughout.

“We’re celebrating the legacy, but I think if Walt were to be alive today, he wouldn’t want to do the things that he had done,” Veerasunthorn said. “He would want to do something new. That was important to us.”

Development on “Wish” began in 2018, and Veerasunthorn joined the project as head of story two years later. But after the first internal work-in-progress screening, the film was at an impasse.

Star, a character that, as its name suggests, is a celestial body, originally could speak. But a wishing star that provided direct guidance didn’t allow Asha the space to figure out her own journey. Veerasunthorn offered solutions.

Lee recalled of that period: “She was the one who said, ‘This is never going to come together if you can’t feel that what we’re ultimately saying is that this is not just about celebrating wishes. This is about really showing the importance of you working hard to make your dreams come true.’”

It was a proactive path Veerasunthorn knew well.

She grew up in a small seaside town in Thailand’s Chonburi Province, where she said her only exposure to animation as a career came in the form of the local artists who hand-painted posters to announce new movie releases in the town square.

At home, she and her younger siblings would watch the 1941 Disney animated film “Dumbo” on repeat. The movie’s fantastical nature and its message of persevering against the odds resonated with her as a young girl.

Also, she said wryly, “Maybe that was the only VHS we had.”

Her parents ran an auto parts shop in front of the family home, and Veerasunthorn used their industrial cardboard boxes and a wall in the kitchen as her canvases. But she had no formal training, and art was just a hobby.

When she was 15, she left home for high school in Bangkok, where she chose a computer science track, hoping to learn to write emails. And after graduating in 2000 with the expectation that she would pursue a practical, lucrative career in her home country, she enrolled in medical school.

But Veerasunthorn “did not love” the idea of becoming a doctor, and during her semester break, she began taking art classes and writing to Ratanasirintrawoot, who recommended her to the president at his alma mater, Columbus College of Art & Design in Ohio.

Her parents were supportive but nervous. No one in Veerasunthorn’s family had pursued a career in the arts. “I was leaving behind something that, to a lot of people, family and friends, is a very solid career to do something that is unknown,” she said.

Before moving to the United States, she asked her parents if she could take English lessons to improve her conversational skills. That was too expensive. Instead, her father bought her a subscription to HBO, where she watched “Forrest Gump” and Todd McFarlane’s “Spawn” on repeat.

“Initially, I was like, even if I don’t communicate very well, my work speaks for itself,” she said.

But Disney wasn’t listening at first. While she was in college, the company shuttered its Florida animation studio, where Ratanasirintrawoot had worked. So Veerasunthorn pivoted, applying at Pixar instead. Rejected. She applied for other jobs at Disney in California. Multiple rejections followed.

“I’m like, that’s OK, it’s becoming a hobby,” she said with a laugh. “‘Oh, it’s a new year. Is Disney Animation hiring again?’”

Scenes from a career: Veerasunthorn worked at Illumination on “Dr. Seuss' The Lorax” and “Despicable Me 2,” top, before joining Disney and taking on scenes in “Zootopia” and “Moana.” Universal Pictures (“Dr. Seuss’ The Lorax” and “Despicable Me 2"); Disney (“Zootopia" and "Moana")

After stints in educational Flash animation and as a contributing story artist on Illumination films, including “Dr. Seuss’ The Lorax” and “Despicable Me 2,” she tried Disney again in 2011. This time, she got in.

And a decade later, after that “Wish” screening, Lee — who also served as the film’s co-writer and executive producer — offered Veerasunthorn a directing role alongside Buck in early 2022. It was similar to the transition Lee herself had made on “Frozen,” when she joined Buck as a director midway through that production.

“Talent is universal, I always say, but access hasn’t always been,” Lee said. “If you give people a chance, they’ll rise to
the occasion. That happened to me.”

Historically, Disney animated films have been the domain of male directors. Lee became the first woman at the studio to direct an animated feature with “Frozen” in 2013 and “Frozen II” in 2019. Since then, only Charise Castro Smith, a co-director on “Encanto,” and now Veerasunthorn, have joined the ranks. (At the Disney-owned Pixar, Brenda Chapman was replaced by a male director before the completion of “Brave,” in 2011. Domee Shi became that studio’s first solo female director on a feature, with “Turning Red” in 2022.)

For Buck, who made his directorial debut on the 1999 Disney film “Tarzan,” forgoing solo duties again was a welcome reprieve.

“These movies are such monsters that, hats off to someone who can do it by themselves. I can’t,” he said, adding that he needs the support. “I love the collaboration.”

Away from the studio, Veerasunthorn and her husband, Ryan Green, whom she met in college and who also works in animation at Disney, share a daughter, Kina, who is 7. She’s one of the “production babies” listed in the end credits of “Moana,” and she provided valuable input on “Wish.” When Kina first watched the film’s ending, she was left bawling. Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.

Lee remained tight-lipped when asked if Veerasunthorn would be working on Disney’s announced third and fourth “Frozen” films or “Zootopia” sequel, but the studio executive said she was eager to see her lead an original project from the start. And for now, Veerasunthorn is reveling in her work on “Wish.”

“The journey that a person takes toward a goal, that is what this movie is about,” Veerasunthorn said. “It took me a few tries to get here. If I were to be discouraged the very first time, this would never have happened.”

She added, as tears brimmed in her eyes, “This film is saying that the choice is always yours, no matter what the situation.”
 
Jasmine is sexualized, it's not the end of the world, it doesn't mean she isn't a cool, relatable character, and it's not a sin to sexualize cartoon characters, it doesnt' mean the character designer wanted to fuck his sister.
Compare and contrast with, idk, Belle, Rapunzel, Tiana, the Frozen broads...
Aladdin as a whole, is far more anachronistic than these Disney movies. All of these attempt to toe the line with their period. I think Aladdin is closer in spirit to Hercules or Emperor's New Groove; it's better to understand them as stand ins for 90s teenagers with a 90s teenager tastes that are styled with Arabian fairytale stylings. Jasmine was in the right to exploit her opponent's telegraphed weaknesses, we understand Jafar as a predator so his lusting after the teenager is viewed as distasteful. It was a more sensible tactic than trying to fist fight him.

Hunchback is interesting in that it was so not what we would have expected from Disney, even then. It handled a lot of mature issues, and yet still had to soften the tone with the goofy gargoyles. She wasn't anything worse for the flirty performance than Jessica Rabbit, and it also gave the sense that was just her work persona. It was distasteful to make Pocahontas, because she was a real person and that's not her story for the sake of being Oscar bait. That movie was boring on top of it all.

And the description of the Arab World in Aladdin feels orientalist, "exterior", like a tourist trap, like a country described by foreigners to that country. Like if you can't relate to that, try and think at the way americans are described in foreign medias like Anime. And if you don't watch anime, imagine if America was described only as burly blond dude who would wear only star-sprangled clothes and eats only burgers. It's a bit like that.
I find it immensely charming when Japan portrays Americans as running around in flag bikinis and wearing giant cowboy hats. I don't take offense to tropes on my cultures. I think people who do take themselves too seriously and need to lighten up.
 
At this point, I might just check out of the Fandom Menace channels I've been watching if nothing major happens within the next few months (I.E. Iger or Kennedy gets booted, Nelson Peltz begins his takeover, etc.) At this point watching all this stuff has just gotten sad. I've been following this whole Disney saga for almost 4 years, and it really feels like nothing's changed. It's just been sad/shocked Mickey thumbnail after sad/shocked Mickey thumbnail.

If anything, it's only proven how much of an egomaniac Bob Iger really is. He wanted to run for president, and he wanted to turn Disney into a leftist propaganda machine. And the board refuses to let him go, which in turn has made things escalate in a way that getting rid of Iger now requires a hostile takeover. To make matters worse, everything people hate about Disney today started with Iger. Especially all the buyouts. When you think of Disney, you don't think of Star Wars or Marvel. At least Disney was involved with the original Pixar films.

Has Disney become a branch of the government at this point? Because a common thread I've been seeing in Fandom Menace videos (WDWPro especially) is that Entertainment is what influences western society at large. People like Doomcock claim that these movies that get released hold far more meaning than just being art/entertainment, that they're meant to give people hope or inspire people. That's kind of discrediting the autonomy that humans have, though. That they're incapable of finding their own motivation or calling in life, or positivity, and that they need a fictional character or fictional property to do it for them. Sounds a bit "soy", don't you think?

Here's what I don't get: How have Rey, Carol Denvers, or any Mary-sues had an impact on pop culture or even western civilization if barely anyone likes the movies they're in? And why is Bob Iger/Disney upper management still insistent on pushing them? The core of """Everything that's wrong with entertainment today""" is that large corporations are willing to blow hundreds of millions of dollars on stuff no one wants. No matter how much blowback they get, or how much money they continue to lose.

Given how much of a capitalism-boogie-man circlejerk a lot of the YouTubers I used to watch became, I'm struggling what else to watch at this point. At this point, I'll take anything that doesn't try to lecture me about "company bad", or political activism, or anything on that level. It's just all so tiresome.
 
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Out of curiosity I went to check out Fawn Veerasunthorn's Instagram and oof- her watercolors are rough.

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This one was supposedly put up for sale to help the victims in Maui. A noble cause, but...come on.

Seems like the perfect person to lead a once-in-a-lifetime movie event.
 
I find it immensely charming when Japan portrays Americans as running around in flag bikinis and wearing giant cowboy hats. I don't take offense to tropes on my cultures. I think people who do take themselves too seriously and need to lighten up.
Ooof course you do. You can think whatever but you are speaking in bad faith for several reasons.
One of them is that you are judging people for their feelings as if you had the One and Definitive Good Take everybody was supposed to react exactly the same way you do, which is rather arrogant.

Second is that even if i am the one who suggested the comparison, it was just as an example and you were supposed to extrapolate on the surrounding context. It's obviously not the same. The USA are a soft-power juggernaut, not to mention the hard-power, and have been so for decades, so a little bit of ridicule from a satellite-state from time to time isn't much to endure.
For other cultures who don't have the same capacity to diffuse their versions of things, it becomes more problematic, proportionally they are exposed to infinitely MORE mirror-house version of their own stories and culture, and have a lot less quality medias of their own. The diaspora from those places may have to defend themselves from those stereotypes in real life.
Also, this misrepresentation has more consequences, since there's a argument to be made that putting those narratives out there serves to consolidate a negative portrayal of certain people, and justify real-world policy, like "we will punish such and such country with embargo and even war because they are *undesirable qualities*" The stakes are simply not the same.

And even if it's not directly related in your eyes, and may not be, it feels like it is for a lot of people.

You think i am exaggerating? Realpolitik always influence popculture, for exemple you can definitely track things such as the cold war from things like action flicks vilains, as cartoonish as they are.

And i do, agree that a lot of discourse on those issues is often whiny, overblown and dramatized, but also they also have a bunch of undeniable points. So it's a bit too easy to act like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for you because you are not routinely dehumanized by the medias and American Tourists in Japan are not profiled at the airport or gunned down in the streets... If you felt like that your portrayal in medias made it easier for people to overlook your displacement or death, you would react differently.

@Bluefeet

I can really understand why Disney sent her packing three times. It's pretty for an amateur tumblr artist, but it's not up-to-par with what people associate with Disney. And it lacks personality. Nothing stands out. That being said if her work in on the story, she doesn't need to be a great visual artist. But she is not that either
 
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Aladdin as a whole, is far more anachronistic than these Disney movies. All of these attempt to toe the line with their period. I think Aladdin is closer in spirit to Hercules or Emperor's New Groove; it's better to understand them as stand ins for 90s teenagers with a 90s teenager tastes that are styled with Arabian fairytale stylings.
Aladdin's tone is the way it is because of Robin Williams, full stop. They pretty much re-wrote the entire movie around the Genie and his improvisations. Whether you think that's a good or bad thing is a question of taste IMO.

I can really understand why Disney sent her packing three times. It's pretty for an amateur tumblr artist, but it's not up-to-par with what people associate with Disney. And it lacks personality. Nothing stands out. That being said if her work in on the story, she doesn't need to be a great visual artist. But she is not that either
To be completely fair, Bluefeet picked the absolute worst examples of her art from her Instagram. While her ability to effectively lead a production is clearly lacking, the woman is not an unskilled artist.

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Aladdin's tone is the way it is because of Robin Williams, full stop. They pretty much re-wrote the entire movie around the Genie and his improvisations. Whether you think that's a good or bad thing is a question of taste IMO.
That would explain it. I guess we can't know if it was better or the worse for it. Emperor's New Groove went through a similar development cycle in that it was originally intended to be a serious movie, but it morphed into a comedy. I sometimes wonder which would have been better, but can't ever know that.

Sarcastic sockpuppet
You assume I have so much privilege because I don't want to cry about my identity, but that's just because I find that behavior repulsive and shameful, and I don't define myself through what others think of me.

I'm actually a member of multiple "minorities" if I wanted to pick apart my background and check boxes. The US is losing power left and right and has been in decline my entire life. A lot of those countries you are white knighting had their time in the sun and ultimate power as well, and very well might again. People just get a lot of power from being oversensitive in the modern era. Being a victim and crybullying is the most convenient powerplay. It's disgraceful. I don't have any respect for those types of people, as they are busybodies who ruin art and expression by stifling every risk or joke or jab or even admiration until all that is left is a bland slurry. That's why everything is so stale, you can't take a risk, it might upset someone.

Aladdin if anything, gave me positive feelings towards Arabian stylings despite all the oil wars we kept fighting. Cutting off limbs for petty crimes was a medieval Europe thing too, so I didn't view it as a cultural failing. I didn't find out they still did it or threw gays off roofs or treated their women like property until I was an adult. If anything, Aladdin gave me an overly positive opinion of the Arab world it did not deserve.
 
I think Disney is done as a brand. I don't believe these people who say that it will be just as good if they have started making 00s movies again. Why? The current movies are not just bad, but they are hilariously hating their audience.

The people can forget bad movies, but not the endless poz and hating Whitey. Especially from the formerly family friendly brand.
 
And i do, agree that a lot of discourse on those issues is often whiny, overblown and dramatized, but also they also have a bunch of undeniable points. So it's a bit too easy to act like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for you because you are not routinely dehumanized by the medias and American Tourists in Japan are not profiled at the airport or gunned down in the streets... If you felt like that your portrayal in medias made it easier for people to overlook your displacement or death, you would react differently.
I remember all those Arabs that got shot because Jasmine showed her belly button and all those Chinese girls that got arrested for possibly possessing Eddy Murphy dragons.
 
Omg are we still talking about the Alladin shit, its been like 5 pages

Anyways I like that when you look up Disney Wish most of the top results are their cruiseship of the same name while the movie which is currently out and still 'hot' is struggling lmao. At least for me, and I often look up things about movies and never googled anyhing about cruiseships.

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My eyes burn. The goat looks extra annoying, her face looks like shes inbred, her dress' ugliness stands out extra, and her hair looks like someone took a screenshot of a black chick in a video game and photoshopped it onto a 2d drawing

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Asha looks a lot better on this one ig but her black friend looks really creepy and theres somerhing off about the other brown girl too

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I find the whole Wish debacle amusing.

They made a Disney Musical, released it on the long Thanksgiving weekend. There were no actual competitors. Not to mention they must have had all the data and lessons learned from Frozen! And nobody cared anymore. If the movie was good, this would have been a walk in the park. Could have made a fuckton at the box office, and move mountains of merch in the holiday season.

I remember when Disney killed of their 2D animation department because the "Princess and the Frog", flopped. Flopped my ass compared to this. That movie made more money than this probably ever will, and that had to go toe-to-toe with Avatar in cinemas.

I won't A-log a movie I am not planning to watch, but it kinda pains to see how bad Disney ended up. I really admired the artistry that goes into their movies and whatnot. The most magical place on Earth, ended up being the most meh and predictable place on Earth.

I have to admit Iger and friends are impressive. How the fuck you make Star Wars, Indiana Jones, The MCU, Pixar and Disney animation flop at the same time. You had a farm full of golden egg laying geese, and you just killed them all. To quote DSP: "WOW".
 
I have to admit Iger and friends are impressive. How the fuck you make Star Wars, Indiana Jones, The MCU, Pixar and Disney animation flop at the same time. You had a farm full of golden egg laying geese, and you just killed them all.
"Put a chick in it, and make her gay."
 
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