Disney General - The saddest fandom on Earth

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

I can think of two reasons why Alice in Wonderland remake made 1B at the box office in 2010:

1. It came out in March 2010, right as Avatar began a 3D resurgence. This time, 2D movies would be converted to 3D in post production (which Alice did).
2. It was banking off of Johnny Depp's star power in paying eccentric characters and Tim Burton's style.

As you can see with the 2016 sequel, no one actually gave a shit about the Alice movie. It was a lightning-in-a-bottle conditions that couldn't be replicated. This is why I doubt the Mufasa Lion King movie will see a fraction of the success TLK remake made.

This issue also goes with Captain Marvel. Its sequel is struggling breaking even right now.

Some movies just don't need sequels and prequels.

 

[Betonhaus]

I just wonder how far will Disney will fall, and what it will look like when it falls to far? Will investors force a board change and a new CEO that purges Woke ideology? Will Disney start chopping off bits of itself as it shrinks and become a fading brand? Will it just declare bankruptcy and shut down, with Disney World closing up shop or becoming some sort of tax-free micronation?

 

[Lucille Bluth]

This issue also goes with Captain Marvel. Its sequel is struggling breaking even right now.

Some movies just don't need sequels and prequels.

Yup. There's no doubt that the sole reason why Captain Marvel made 1.1B office is because of her timing before Endgame and being teased in Infinity War.

I also agree. Look at Frozen 2. That was a cluseterfuck because it's clear they never intended for the movie to get a sequel. It's why I'm sure Frozen 3 and 4 will likely fail. Trust in the Disney brand is low, and I don't see where they can go from the second film.

 

[Lucille Bluth]

Did anyone see the videos that were pre-made assuming Wish would be a success? Aged like milk lol.

I don't understand why Disney would trust the music of their 100th anniversary celebration princess flick in the hands of a popstar ghostwriter and some sound engineer who worked with Lady Gaga. Criticize Lin-Manuel Miranda all you want, but there's no denying that he knows how musicals work. All the faults of Julia Michaels songwriting are seen in the Selena Gomez song "Bad Liar", which she co-wrote. Like the forced/arrhythmic verses and repetition.

One of my many problems with Wish is that Rosas lacks cultural character. They should've just set the story in New York City instead of making it some island in the Mediterranean sea that the king (and villain) made to be a safespace for people from all over the world live in.

Every other Disney princess flick attempts to honour some real world culture(s), even if they're mostly set in fictional lands. Belle is French, Merida is Scottish, Jasmine is Arab, Mulan is Chinese, Moana is Polynesian, Tiana is from the Southern U.S, Frozen is Scandinavian-inspired, etc. Even other princesses like Snow White, Aurora and Rapunzel, while not having a clear setting (AFAIK), are obviously Europeans and were inspired by European fairy tales. And this is why some people can feel "representation" with the princesses.

But WTF is Asha supposed to be? She isn't Southern European or any Mediterranean ethnicity. Her fictional island is basically New York City and her friends are all colours of the rainbow (one's Yellow, another is Brown, another is black, etc). If she's supposed to be "Brown" or broadly "POC", then there's a ton of princesses that actually focus on real world Brown cultures/people (i.e - Moana, Raya, Jasmine, etc).

I feel like Wish is the zenith of Disney's attempts to be inclusive and inoffensive, while ultimately appealing to no one. In the past, they got some shit for Jasmine supposedly being Arab, but her palace (inspired by India's Taj Mahal) tells a different story. The film was supposed to be set in Baghdad, but the Gulf War made the creators change the name to Agrabah. IIRC, Mulan also got criticism by actual Chinese audiences for looking pan-East Asian or Japanesey. Princess and the Frog, despite all the media hype for being the first "African American princess", didn't have an African prince. Naveen has an Indian name and comes from a fictional kingdom, Maledonia; that name possibly combines two real life countries (Maldives and North Macedonia).

Frozen tried to cram every Scandinavian culture and then the sequel introduced a Sami-inspired people because audiences didn't know that Anna's boyfriend was Sami. Moana saw some criticism for trying to be pan-Polynesian, instead of picking one of the many diverse Polynesian/Pacific Islander cultures. Even Raya and the Last Dragon was being hyped up for it's "representation" of pan-Southeast Asian cultures, yet ironically, many of the film's talent were East Asian descent. The film failed to reach audiences in China and Japan btw, because (shocker), East Asians don't look at a Vietcong or other dark-skins and see "representation".

 

[ShitLurker]

Men are 50% of the population. Women are 50% of the population. The “pandering” occurs in equal measure. You just notice it more when you *aren’t* the person being pandered to.

Yes and no, like I stated, ignoring retards that force square pegs in round holes, there are demographics where one will be a lot more weighted than the other. You wish to pander to as much as possible, but hard pandering to women for vehicles or beer and hard pandering to men for cosmetics or household consumer goods are losing strategies since what you usually lose from alienating your standard demographic o tap to the other almost never brings in the numbers you need to make it work. Doesn't mean you can't sometimes get a homerun here and there where you can effectively pander both on what traditionally only appealed to one, but you can probably count those in one hand.

Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour and Beyoncé’s Renaissance Tour both were released theatrically and have been massive events. Audiences are almost exclusively female.

On my defense, I was focusing purely on big buck cinema and a bit more on Disney's ventures, where the pandering doesn't seem to bring the numbers they need or there isn't that much stuff that you can point at and say "chick flick" that was created as that on the outset without trying to ruin something else that used to be male oriented or neutral.

I have 0 idea how theaters, concerts and musicals perform by gender but I can definitely see how those 2 you mentioned would be pure women in the same way a hard metal concert would be pretty much all dudes.

The story is less Warner interference and more WB's poor handling of animation. WB gave Brad close to full control of the project as they were fairly open to trying out a new film to get their struggling animation brand to succeed. The issue with Warner was marketing. Posters and such were supposed to go out a year or so before premier, yet they failed to meet that. The ADs and other materials were not coming out on time and thus the movie launched with no one knowing of its existence.

This issue was not exclusive to Iron Giant. Batman: Mask of The Phantasm was quickly rushed out from direct to DVD to theatre with little time for marketing, creating a bomb out of what should have been an easy success. Quest for Camelot was also screwed in marketing as materials were not out, amongst the film's quality. Later Osmosis Jones and Looney Tunes Back in Action would also suffer from delayed/poor marketing. The only success was Space Jam, and that was likely due to there already being commercials prior to the film's inception along with Michael Jordan.

Here is a good video on the subject:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BTHVlzwpxiU

Was there any strange beef behind the scenes or was marketing just that inept? And you've also mentioned how boys don't come in with as big numbers as girls for stuff targeted at them, I just remember when I was a kid I wanted to see cool shit and bugged my parents about it. Though I will admit I never saw Treasure Planet... so there is probably something to it. There must be a reason outside of "woke" of why specially child oriented products now a days go into neutral or girl side. I may be out of touch, but do boys now have their Ben 10s, Gargoyles, Avatar, TMNT or Transformers? Because this could just be culture war shit where I'm made aware of Owl House and She-ra's scissoring adventures but am not aware of more normal stuff that is oriented at boys (and while I'm at it, at girls, since my two prior examples seem more targeted to redditor manchildren and tumblerinas).

During the "Fall of X" event, the anti-mutant organization Orchis bombed the Hellfire Gala, leaving most mutants missing or dead. Anti-mutant hysteria has picked up again, and Nightcrawler relocated to New York and disguises himself. People notice his feet and hands, but since he's wearing a mask he's just another freak with a mask. He also openly uses his teleportation and the Soulsword from Limbo. X-Men has been fucking shit since Hickman left, and an argument can be made his Krakoa storyline (once he left and Marvel's editors took control) ruined the entire X-franchise for a generation or two. This is the era where Cyclops and Marvel Girl (yeah Jean's back to that codename) are in an open relationship with Wolverine, and he has his own adjoining bedroom with theirs. This is why the comic book industry is collapsing.

... so they killed off a lot of mutants since they knew fuck all what to do about them, Kurt decided to go to the 3rd biggest cesspool in the world and going under cover as niggerman but not really since he uses his full arsenal and the whole polyamory thing with Jean Grey is still going even though I thought it was a meme for a couple of issues... "WHY ARE COMIC BOOKS IN DECLINE?!" truly a question that will stump future generations for decades.

Is Kurt also gay? Or does Kitty Pride fuck him now since he now counts as black?

It came out in 2010, around the big period for Hot Topic. Included in that is the love for Tim Burton (Nightmare Before Christmas was the hottest thing around then) which was a driving force towards the movie's success.

Bingo, Alice in Wonderland's success was a lot less Disney/ real life Alice and a lot more "oh, Tim Burton movie with fuck you money" and everyone loved Jhonny Depp in that point in time. Also, it was a point in time where a director and actor could still sell tickets, that's going a lot worse today.

This issue also goes with Captain Marvel. Its sequel is struggling breaking even right now.

Some movies just don't need sequels and prequels.

That aside, only reason Captain Marvel made good numbers in her first outing was the bullshit advertising that you needed to watch it for proper context to Endgame. I passed on watching it and Ant Man 2, not watching Ant Man 2 made me do a few more synapses to understand what was happening that Captain Marvel ever did.

 

[Betonhaus]

I don't even get the pandering. I'm not a serf in the 1800's, I'm not a mermaid or Scandinavian or a native or French or even a New Orleans citizen. Nevertheless I liked those shows and could relate to some of their themes. Each of those stories was a fantasy setting with it's own theme and culture, not just "New York with a fantasy paint job"

What made these stories interesting WAS their unique and different setting. It allowed the viewer to experience cultural concepts they never had before, and served to abstract away details that merely distract from the core themes. Take that away and you might as well watch something set in New York actual like Sex in the City.

 

[Solomon Bundy]

... so they killed off a lot of mutants since they knew fuck all what to do about them, Kurt decided to go to the 3rd biggest cesspool in the world and going under cover as niggerman but not really since he uses his full arsenal and the whole polyamory thing with Jean Grey is still going even though I thought it was a meme for a couple of issues... "WHY ARE COMIC BOOKS IN DECLINE?!" truly a question that will stump future generations for decades.

Is Kurt also gay? Or does Kitty Pride fuck him now since he now counts as black?

I don't know what Kitty's doing, the X-titles operate under a "we need X amount of mutant books on the market whether they can support them or not." The new batch of writers are all shuffled between the same titles that are cancelled and relaunched in less than 2 years (at this point, most less than 1 year, a few like Avengers Inc. less than 6 months). Last I saw they made her the new Star-Lord a few years back, which was soundly ignored.

The polyamory thing wasn't a "meme," it's cowardice on the part of Marvel. People called them out online about it, and since the mythical "modern audience" doesn't buy comics, all they had was tweets. Just like The Marvels, they cut out the "offending material" and pretend they never put it out there, yet still want credit as being "progressive." If you're going to put shit out there, stand by it. It's yours.

Reminder both Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men were relaunched twice in the last five years, with a third for X-Men coming up once Krakoa is done. They do this as much as possible because #1 issues sell the most no matter what, and all they have left are artificial sales bumps (first issues, variant covers, and crossover events).

 

[SpiderBitch]

I still cant get over the fact that not only did they hire a pop writer to do their musical, they hired one who makes selena gomez music, some of the blandest bored sounding pop music out there imo.
Like damn even with shit like katy perry its at least vaguely ~*inspirational*~, but ive never had a gomez song convey any feeling to me ever. Lets get this for our musical theatre movie???

 

[Solomon Bundy]

Accomplished talent costs more, and will sometimes be insubordinate.

They can control the amateurs and charlatans, and pay them less. The producers of the Bond franchise have turned down Spielberg and Tarantino to direct Bond films for this exact reason.

 

[X-avier cuck]

Disney has always been guilty of beating things into the ground, but this millennium has only made things worse in that regard.

I firmly believe the reason we haven't had a true Disney villain is because they're afraid to offend anybody.

However, rule of storytelling number one is that you have no control over how terminally online weirdos will perceive your media, even if it's spelled out to them.

Retroactively, people will eventually come over once they realize the thing that they had was good, but usually after it's already gone.

They really should just hone in on making good stories and not listen to need your reactions from places like Twitter, Tumblr, or whatever.

Some of those same people who complain will still be lining up to see the movie anyways so what's really lost?

 

[Kari Kamiya]

I'm trying to figure out where the twist villain trope exactly came from that Disney ran into the ground. Like the last classic Disney villain had to have been Mother Gothel, and King Candy was perhaps the best way to write a selfish, false ruler even though he was a twist villain (kinda, in hindsight, there was enough foreshadowing). Hans being the twist villain to start all twist villainy rubs me the wrong way only because his character was unrealized due to his motivations not being made super clear in the final product, and because Lee needed a new villain after deciding to scrap making Elsa the villain.

Honestly, thinking about it, maybe this came from Pixar. Lotso kinda counts as a twist villain, but Wreck-It Ralph was in development when Toy Story 3 was. Ratatouille had Anton Ego, though he was hinted at early on. WALL-E had AUTO, but that was a robot following protocol. Up had Charles Muntz, though it may be more of a classic case of "Never meet your heroes". And of course Mr. Waternoose, though like how obvious was it, really? It's probably why the world is lived in by monsters, it allowed for "camouflage".

Maybe the Prospector from Toy Story 2 could be patient zero, because while you get where he was coming from, him becoming more villainous than Al felt out-of-place. It might've been out of jealousy, but I kinda doubt it, he just had it out for kids in general.

Though I would not be surprised if Disney has been trying to implement DreamWorks logic when it comes to villains. Like legit, who else could've come up with the idea that the Fairy Godmother would be a bad guy? She's like a twist villain, but not in narrative practice, just narrative fun.

 

[brocktherock]

sassy horse

I was having a stroke moment and thought I was looking at Donkey's horse form from Shrek 2 for like five whole minutes. I mean it's the exact same shit and unironic.

 

[Gar For Archer]

I'm trying to figure out where the twist villain trope exactly came from that Disney ran into the ground. Like the last classic Disney villain had to have been Mother Gothel, and King Candy was perhaps the best way to write a selfish, false ruler even though he was a twist villain (kinda, in hindsight, there was enough foreshadowing). Hans being the twist villain to start all twist villainy rubs me the wrong way only because his character was unrealized due to his motivations not being made super clear in the final product, and because Lee needed a new villain after deciding to scrap making Elsa the villain.

Honestly, thinking about it, maybe this came from Pixar. Lotso kinda counts as a twist villain, but Wreck-It Ralph was in development when Toy Story 3 was. Ratatouille had Anton Ego, though he was hinted at early on. WALL-E had AUTO, but that was a robot following protocol. Up had Charles Muntz, though it may be more of a classic case of "Never meet your heroes". And of course Mr. Waternoose, though like how obvious was it, really? It's probably why the world is lived in by monsters, it allowed for "camouflage".

Maybe the Prospector from Toy Story 2 could be patient zero, because while you get where he was coming from, him becoming more villainous than Al felt out-of-place. It might've been out of jealousy, but I kinda doubt it, he just had it out for kids in general.

Though I would not be surprised if Disney has been trying to implement DreamWorks logic when it comes to villains. Like legit, who else could've come up with the idea that the Fairy Godmother would be a bad guy? She's like a twist villain, but not in narrative practice, just narrative fun.

The way Hans is written is just so fucking baffling, and is the epitome of a twist villain done WRONG. Which is surprising, because he’s literally set up to be an amazing twist antagonist in a way that perfectly fits the movie’s theme of “true love”.

Like, his background is that he’s the youngest son in a large royal family, so if he wants wealth and status he’ll have to marry for it. However when he initially bumps into Anna it’s entirely by happenstance, and he’s attracted to her despite not knowing that she’s the princess. It’s only at the coronation that he learns of her status, and it’s here where his motivation would have turned from “true love” to something less pure. A much better twist would have been if he actually tries to break the curse, but nothing happens when he kisses her because his love is no longer “true” but instead motivated by a desire for wealth and status (something even he may not be consciously aware of). After that, perhaps in grief or denial he may rationalize that the only way he can break the curse is to kill the caster, going off of hunt Elsa against Anna’s protestations, which directly leads into an almost identical ending. Only difference I’d make is instead of getting arrested, he escapes and vows to spend the rest of his life hunting down dangerous magical entities like Elsa, potentially setting up for him to return in future movies as an actual, non-twist villain.

Like fundamentally I think it’s a lot more interesting for Hans to be a generally “nice/good” person who til the very end genuinely believes that he’s doing the right thing, than to be a stock evil schemer who was only pretending to be a nice guy (a characterization which is directly contradicted by his actions earlier in the movie).

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I'm trying to figure out where the twist villain trope exactly came from that Disney ran into the ground

It's just general hack writing since it's an easy way to get idiots to think it's clever and you need way less screentime to set the villain up. A good twist villain is like Unbreakable, that makes the entire film plot turn upside down. But instead it's a surprise villain grinning to the camera few times, say a few ambiguous phrases and people act like it is a masterstroke in writing.

 

[$5.3 Million Dollars]

But WTF is Asha supposed to be?

Article

The story of "Wish", which premieres in Portugal next Thursday, takes place during the 13th century in a fantastic kingdom founded by the Magnificent King, based on his rules and philosophy and where he discovered how to fulfill the population's wishes.

“One of the things that really pleased us about the Iberian Peninsula is that it was a time when people came from all over the world and this connected in an inspiring way to the story we wanted to tell”, said the creative director of the studios at Walt Disney animation.

In a phrase she's an Iberian, Moorish mutt. Though its not like they do much to actually impart any of this information in a way that has meaning.

I think this has been discussed here before that the fashion choices for this region and era are all just a little bit off and seem like the pop version of what you'd expect from when it is set, which would've been in the time of the Reconquista. Same with the buildings. That "came from all over the world" thing was directly related to conquest and religion. So while this was a smart move on Disney's part to get a time and place where it wouldn't be odd to see a black, brown, and white man living in the same region, they would also likely be ideologically opposed based on religion and culture.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

And you've also mentioned how boys don't come in with as big numbers as girls for stuff targeted at them, I just remember when I was a kid I wanted to see cool shit and bugged my parents about it. Though I will admit I never saw Treasure Planet... so there is probably something to it.

Easy, Treasure Planet wasn’t a boys thing. I said it in the initial post, but Disney needed a Star Wars. They instead created Aladdin again, but had less songs and romance I guess? Treasure Planet is too Disney. The designs are similar to films like Aladdin. Jim has an I Want/ World doesn’t understand me song like every Disney Princess of the 90s. The film still has those cute and comedy characters that are staples of Disney between the robot and marketable plush pink bubble thing.

Alantis also suffered from the Disney-isms. Doug Walker and his Disneycember on these films are probably a good place to understand why they were not hits. Atlantis had dialogue that felt too childish and ”Disney” to him, clashing with with desire to have an action movie. The setting for Treasure Planet also didn’t sit well with him as the Steam punk took away from the benefits of the space and pirate genres and created a lot of conflicting designs.

As a contrast to prove that boys will come out if pandered to, Pirates of The Caribbean was one of Disney’s biggest hits. It was a pirate movie like Treasure Planet, but was much darker and cruder, had better designs, action and dropped the musical aspect entirely. Jack Sparrow was the Indiana Jones of the 2000s as men and women loved his drunken stumbling, backstabbing personality and antics. Davey Jones was kind of the Vader of the era, a menacing squid and that was brutal in his killing yet also held some tragedy that made him sympathetic.

There must be a reason outside of "woke" of why specially child oriented products now a days go into neutral or girl side.

My bets are on feminism and migration.

Outside of Disney, women lacked marketable IP. Most IP was either poor like early MLP or would become poor over time via feminists. Look how Barbie turned out. A once huge female IP slowly brown beaten into needing to be progressive till the girl’s adventures and glamour was removed as to not promote whores or shame death fats. Every girl IP seems to hit the rock in which feminists and parent groups go hard stripping all character out. Disney was always shamed for promoting whores, damsels and racism. Monster High was another big one that got brown beaten for being too sexualized.

Given this set up, the 2000s had a mass migration affect where female audiences were rising in boy spaces.

• Batman, Spider-Man and Teen Titans became huge tent poles of female intrusion into cape-shit. So many women got into characters like Raven, Starfire, Harley Quinn or Spider-Man around the 2000s. One can also add Powerpuff Girls and Danny Phantom to that list.
• Anime was mostly big with boys, but Sailor Moon created a back door that lead to women getting more involved. From there Naruto, Evangelion, One Piece, Pokémon and later My Hero all started getting female followings.
• Western animation got huge followings thanks to how unique the comedies were becoming. Characters like Johnny Bravo and Zim were favorited for being unique male icons while a character like Mandy was a unique female icon.
• The PS2, Wii and DS broadened the gaming space significantly. I believe Nintendo has remarked about how the 6th and 7th gen brought in a mass flux of women into Mario and how they started designing games with that in mind. Take a look at the Mario Kart and Smash rosters between GC to Wii U and see how there are sudden booms in female cast members. Smash Wii U practically doubles the fem cast from Brawl. Mario Kart goes from having 3 females in the medium weight class to at least one in every class come Wii. Even the newest Wonder title added Daisy and Toadette as staff members had daughters now into Mario unlike previous eras.

Women got into nerd stuff to escape their content. With that, companies and creatives took notes to try and appeal to these new followings. Only issue is that the concerned groups followed and now boy’s media is tasked with the adhering to the same BS standards held against Barbie.

Was there any strange beef behind the scenes or was marketing just that inept?

Given that it happened for every animated film, I think marketing was incompetent rather than being malicious towards Bradd. WB is pretty notoriously run by crayon eaters when it comes to marketing things, especially in animation.

 

[Mac Monster]

Disney struggles to make shit for boys. It's one of the main reason why they bought Marvel and Star Wars. Of course they fucked that up as well by bringing in retards who turned those franchises into the same trite girlboss shit, but there inital plan was to have those two focus on the boys market while the main Disney branch would continue with the girls.

 

[Crybaby Xianghua]

Is it me, or is Disney out of touch with their intended audience (little girls)?

It seems like most of the criticism for the girl boss "kill all men" bull shit products, are actually female nerds. I guess it goes to show that "No matter how much these femme nerds need feminism (misandry?), they still have the fantasies of romantic love and lust. Especially heteronormative love and lust."

Also, a hilarious irony here: Most of this unironic girl boss fantards, are male fans, primarily soy boy simps and cucks. It's almost like men like "men with tits" female characters more than actual women do.

The irony is strong with Disney and Girl's Media today.

 

[SpiderBitch]

The irony is strong with Disney and Girl's Media today.

The female disney adults are often obsessed with the disney from their childhood, the one they loved as little kids, so pretty princesses with pretty princes and nice songs. A lot of these recent movies are not actually matching up to the things they're nostalgic about while also not substituting it with anything good, so ive seen a lot of them become less and less interested in modern disney.
Most ive seen dont really care about anything after frozen or maybe moana. I dont think ive ever seen someone get excited about raya since a week after it came out.

Also, not really related to critical nerds, but most disney adults are hwite, most ive seen good christian taylor swift listening autumn girls (im sure there's also plenty of dangerhairs but i feel like the older movies didn't have enough gay shipping opportunities to lure them in) , so even if theyd never say it out loud or even consciously think it, disney constantly virtually signalling against them and promoting degeneracy is prob not doing wonders for the subconscious. Even if theyre woke, the constant culture war shit is probably souring what is supposed to be their innocent inner child escapist hobby.

Im happy that marvel abandoning their core audience of action loving boys (mostly white) and disney abandoning their core audience of wholesome romance loving girls (mostly white) is beginning to backfire on them with even the stunted grown up versions of those kids losing interest

 

[X-avier cuck]

I'm trying to figure out where the twist villain trope exactly came from that Disney ran into the ground. Like the last classic Disney villain had to have been Mother Gothel, and King Candy was perhaps the best way to write a selfish, false ruler even though he was a twist villain (kinda, in hindsight, there was enough foreshadowing). Hans being the twist villain to start all twist villainy rubs me the wrong way only because his character was unrealized due to his motivations not being made super clear in the final product, and because Lee needed a new villain after deciding to scrap making Elsa the villain.

Honestly, thinking about it, maybe this came from Pixar. Lotso kinda counts as a twist villain, but Wreck-It Ralph was in development when Toy Story 3 was. Ratatouille had Anton Ego, though he was hinted at early on. WALL-E had AUTO, but that was a robot following protocol. Up had Charles Muntz, though it may be more of a classic case of "Never meet your heroes". And of course Mr. Waternoose, though like how obvious was it, really? It's probably why the world is lived in by monsters, it allowed for "camouflage".

Maybe the Prospector from Toy Story 2 could be patient zero, because while you get where he was coming from, him becoming more villainous than Al felt out-of-place. It might've been out of jealousy, but I kinda doubt it, he just had it out for kids in general.

Though I would not be surprised if Disney has been trying to implement DreamWorks logic when it comes to villains. Like legit, who else could've come up with the idea that the Fairy Godmother would be a bad guy? She's like a twist villain, but not in narrative practice, just narrative fun.

Frozen was the start of a lot of the common things we see today.

Let it Go is incredibly pop centric, sisters are all about that girl power spiel, the movie constantly means on the movie constantly memeing on their brand, the dreaded twist villain got to start here with Hans.

All of the above are things that have been plaguing Disney movies ever since.

Many of their princesses tend to be incredibly quirky and don't have a need for a man, and when they do the men are usually portrayed as being incredibly Goofy and directionless.

It was subtle, but with the animated and live action films doing them in tandem it became unseeable.