DOOM

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Jace on ice said:
Yea but that doesn't fix the issue where parrying is way too OP
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idk how a game built arround parrying certain attacks to keep up the preassure on enemies could be "too OP", its like shooting in eternal was too op, like duh doi its kind of the point.
(actually ur completely right tho, there's som melee attacks (primarily from the mancubus and hell knight) that can be completely shut down with a real easy parry so that it basically invalidates the enemy, i hope they change that, so far they just added more enemies to every arena so parrying doesn't completely shut down the fight in your favour)


Jace on ice said:
once you get the upgrade for the mace that recharges it quicker the game becomes Skyrim, you will never fire a gun again except maybe the combat shotgun to regain armor.
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they patched that out in this update
 
hobbert said:
they patched that out in this update
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That's an exceptionally bad sign. They didn't have to out of the gate rebalancing patches for single player with either 2016 or Eternal. Both were, for better or for worse, balanced the way Id wanted them balanced from the get-go. Sounds like their QA is slipping.
 
DrearyDoomguy said:
They didn't have to out of the gate rebalancing patches for single player with either 2016 or Eternal.
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2016 doesn't have literally anything mechanically interesting enough to bother patching.
Eternal had patching literally all the time for three years.
DrearyDoomguy said:
Sounds like their QA is slipping.
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Hugo Martin's big plan for TDA, was that unlike eternal, the player sets his own challenge, tuning random shit till they get the game they want. With this thesis, many aspects of TDA balancing were really lax to say the least. This was with the assumption that if DrearyDoomguy thought the gauntlet was overpowered dogshit, he would take it upon himself to balance his single-player game to his tastes.

However, it became quickly obvious that the average player just wants the game to be the way he wants it off the rip, and TDA got titled as "Slider-slop" (grimm). So now Hugo Martin is making the game the way he wants to play it.
 
hobbert said:
However, it became quickly obvious that the average player just wants the game to be the way he wants it off the rip, and TDA got titled as "Slider-slop" (grimm). So now Hugo Martin is making the game the way he wants to play it.
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I will say I don't care for the original approach. Games should come as the developers intend for you to play, with the "set up your own approach" thing coming later after you beat the game.

I'm paying 70 dollars for a game, not a sandbox that I have to set up. Is that lazy? yeah, maybe. but I shouldn't have to go out of my way to make it fit towards my standard when I would rather have 2016 or Eternal where it plays how the dev want.
 
hobbert said:
Hugo Martin's big plan for TDA, was that unlike eternal, the player sets his own challenge, tuning random shit till they get the game they want. With this thesis, many aspects of TDA balancing were really lax to say the least. This was with the assumption that if DrearyDoomguy thought the gauntlet was overpowered dogshit, he would take it upon himself to balance his single-player game to his tastes.
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Star Classic said:
I will say I don't care for the original approach. Games should come as the developers intend for you to play, with the "set up your own approach" thing coming later after you beat the game.
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the "set your own approach" is best done by sandboxes and the likes, not shooters.
 
pain.GIF
 
Mushroom King said:
I hope this is the correct thread, I just wanted to say I was very impressed by the Doom Kiwi Farms wad and I admire the work that went into it.
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There's a separate thread for that: https://kiwifarms.st/threads/kiwi-farms-community-doom-mapping-project-no-2.201641/

I actually dropped by to say that since I saw people talking about the Moonman mod on stream, I figured I should post the links I have saved for it:

The version I played is this, it is a git repo but you can just download it as a zip and launch it in gzdoom: https://gitgud.io/middlefingerman/moonman-doom-2
They have an install guide too: https://gitgud.io/middlefingerman/moonman-doom-2/-/wikis/Installation-Guide

It's also on Archive, I think this might be the latest version, but I have not played this one myself: https://archive.org/download/moonman-doom-2-feb-10-2022_202412
 
StacticShock said:
the "set your own approach" is best done by sandboxes and the likes, not shooters.
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If the system was in-depth enough for the player to truly chose their experience, that would be one thing. Imagine if you could select a "classic mode" without any cutscenes, more labyrinth like level design and no gimmicks introduced in other games, or maybe go for the "arena" mode that would turn the game into a very straight forward 2016 esque experience where you just go from one area to the other without any special nu-Doom gimmicks and just shoot demons. The default mode could be called "The Dark Ages" and we would get the game that launched, and for the Eternal fans out there you could disable shield/parry and turn the game into that game of pinball with a gun they love so much. That would require making levels modular and basically work on several games at the same time, but it would be worth the trouble.

But no, the modifiers aren't worth wiping your ass with, you will still hate the game if you don't like the gameplay style TDA introduced. This is what I am talking, iD will have to choose a lane sooner or later, they can't just do something completely different with every new titles.
 
long waters said:
There's a separate thread for that: https://kiwifarms.st/threads/kiwi-farms-community-doom-mapping-project-no-2.201641/

I actually dropped by to say that since I saw people talking about the Moonman mod on stream, I figured I should post the links I have saved for it:

The version I played is this, it is a git repo but you can just download it as a zip and launch it in gzdoom: https://gitgud.io/middlefingerman/moonman-doom-2
They have an install guide too: https://gitgud.io/middlefingerman/moonman-doom-2/-/wikis/Installation-Guide

It's also on Archive, I think this might be the latest version, but I have not played this one myself: https://archive.org/download/moonman-doom-2-feb-10-2022_202412
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Thank you, sir.
 
Kofi Drinka said:
How is the hexen and heretic remaster?
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You can get it for free if you already own Hexen/Heretic on Steam, which is nice.

You get both the original WADs and the remastered WADs for both Hexen and Heretic.

Here's what's new:
  • You have a new soundtrack, although you can choose to use the classic one
  • Heretic levels have some cosmetic layout changes and some of the textures are replaced/new
  • Hexen levels seemed more or less the same to me, although they do have some new textures too
  • There are a bunch of balance changes.
  • The Cleric in Hexen gets a shield along with his mace and you can block to reduce damage.
  • You have a new episode for Heretic and a new hub for Hexen. The new hub for Hexen has way larger maps than the original Hexen.
It does have some issues. The first thing that bugged me is that you can choose classic or modern font for the UI. The problem is that if you choose classic font, in half of the interface elements they still use the modern font which makes it seem like the new UI is half-finished and not working properly...

Here are a bunch of issues with the multiplayer coop:
  • For one, I don't know if all of the game lobby options work properly. When I played Heretic in coop, we kept getting extra weapons in the levels and there didn't seem to be any way to disable them. I thought maybe it was just spawning in all deathmatch weapons or something?
  • It is not clear at all what the "enhancement" options for the coop lobby actually do.
  • In Heretic, the level stats when you open the map don't work half the time when you are the client. They only work properly for the host.
  • Also in Heretic, the stats at the end of the level also don't get displayed correctly, the numbers seem to overlap.
  • I was the host so I didn't have this problem, but apparently when you are a client and there are too many enemies at once, projectiles stop spawning for you. On some of the very large maps, my friend had an issue where his weapon projectiles wouldn't show up at all. This happened both in Heretic and Hexen.
  • This one time, we both got kicked from the game with some weird message about how the host had closed the game even though I was the host. But this was only a one time thing...
  • You can't save in coop, so if you want to play Hexen in coop, you'd better prepare for some long sessions.
  • It has some text-to-voice feature and voice-to-text feature too, but only the latter seemed to work for me. The voice-to-text actually worked surprisingly well.
  • Multiplayer has local, lan and online options. But the online option is only for multiplayer through steam, it doesn't have some direct ip mode sadly.
  • You can't change your name in multiplayer, it just uses your steam name.
A bunch of other things to note:
  • It doesn't have actual 3D projection like you can have in GZDoom, so when you look up/down it looks weird and stretchy. It didn't bother me that much though...
  • I don't think you can turn off the auto-aiming
  • Some of the secrets in the new Heretic levels were bugged on release. I don't know if they were fixed yet.
Since I mostly only played coop, I think my overall impression of the release is that it is rather janky. I don't care much for the new soundtrack, but some of the new textures do look nice and I liked the new levels.

I'm not sure how well the new levels work in GZDoom as I haven't tried them yet, but I think I much prefer it over this re-release from Nightdive. The engine is just much more flexible, has more options, etc. After someone figures out how to get the new levels working in it, I'll probably just play them that way instead.
 
hobbert said:
the player sets his own challenge, tuning random shit till they get the game they want
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I've seen this approach done in so many mods at this point that I know for a fact it never works, ever. Even in complete sandbox games it usually devolves into "set 90% of things to the best settings and sometimes change the remaining 10% between 2 states for fucking around or serious play". I have no idea how they thought this concept was a good idea.
 
hobbert said:
the player sets his own challenge, tuning random shit till they get the game they want
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I wanted a game where I was forced to think about what I was doing, not shield the green goop and autopilot with the combat shotgun the whole way through.

That game can not physically exist in TDA because there are no actual mechanics to the monsters like there were in Eternal.
 
hobbert said:
Eternal had patching literally all the time for three years.
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Most of those patches were for Battlemode. This is single player balancing, which was not at all prominent in Eternal aside from when the normal TAG 2 levels got nerfed then buffed again.
 
hobbert said:
2016 doesn't have literally anything mechanically interesting enough to bother patching.
Eternal had patching literally all the time for three years.

Hugo Martin's big plan for TDA, was that unlike eternal, the player sets his own challenge, tuning random shit till they get the game they want. With this thesis, many aspects of TDA balancing were really lax to say the least. This was with the assumption that if DrearyDoomguy thought the gauntlet was overpowered dogshit, he would take it upon himself to balance his single-player game to his tastes.

However, it became quickly obvious that the average player just wants the game to be the way he wants it off the rip, and TDA got titled as "Slider-slop" (grimm). So now Hugo Martin is making the game the way he wants to play it.
Click to expand...
Or to simplify, making a single player shooter where you tailor everything to your desire is pretty the game design equivalent to wallpaper. There’s no real vision and the playerbase will just find something else to fill the niche. Fuck knows you’re spoiled for choice at this point.
 
Takayuki Yagami said:
Or to simplify, making a single player shooter where your tailor everything to your desire is pretty the game design equivalent to wallpaper. There’s no real vision and the playerbase will just find something else to fill the niche. Fuck knows you’re spoiled for choice at this point.
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Gee, if only a DOOM game played like one? I wonder if we can make that happen again?
 
StacticShock said:
which doom though? the old series or... urgh, doom3?
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Read the post I am referring to. How would you even make TDA play like Doom 3?
As for the old series, yeah I made a post about that earlier
30+GameOvers said:
If the system was in-depth enough for the player to truly chose their experience, that would be one thing. Imagine if you could select a "classic mode" without any cutscenes, more labyrinth like level design and no gimmicks introduced in other games, or maybe go for the "arena" mode that would turn the game into a very straight forward 2016 esque experience where you just go from one area to the other without any special nu-Doom gimmicks and just shoot demons. The default mode could be called "The Dark Ages" and we would get the game that launched, and for the Eternal fans out there you could disable shield/parry and turn the game into that game of pinball with a gun they love so much. That would require making levels modular and basically work on several games at the same time, but it would be worth the trouble.

But no, the modifiers aren't worth wiping your ass with, you will still hate the game if you don't like the gameplay style TDA introduced. This is what I am talking, iD will have to choose a lane sooner or later, they can't just do something completely different with every new titles.
Click to expand...
 
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