DOTA 2

[Thiletonomics]

DOTA 2's The International is now live, and here are the teams playing this year:



PGL's production values for the Group Stage is very lacking right now though. Especially when stuff like this happens:



Let's hope that it improves for the actual main event, unless Valve wants to make DOTA 2 the laughing stock of E-Sport World Championships this year.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Having played both league and smite I wanted to get into dota because it seemed a lot slower and a lot more strategic with far far greater depth and both tactical and mechanical complexity than either but then I discovered it has a shitload of RNG for no real reason, there are hero abilities that ability have a random chance to stun, banning phase has RNG on whether or not the bans go through and a bunch of heroes have abilities that literally roll a dice to check if they will even work properly.

I have never noped out of a game faster in my life, how the tf have dota devs not realized "rng bad" in all their time developing it?

Is the fanbase that retarded that they have never demanded this shit be removed? I get that valve is stubborn but even the tf2 fanbase managed to get valve to get rid of random damage spread and (if I remember correctly) allow nocrit servers into matchmaking, but everywhere I look up online apparently the retards defend this shit.

Wtf is it with valve and ruining perfectly good games with shoehorned rng?

 

[Thiletonomics]

DOTA 2's TI wrapped up last weekend, and the winner of TI is Tundra E-Sports, in a dominating 3-0 win over Team Secret in the Grand Final. And Aui_2000 gets his 2nd TI win, this time as a coach.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

The Compendium goes free, as well as DotA 2 Premium for 30 days.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Having played both league and smite I wanted to get into dota because it seemed a lot slower and a lot more strategic with far far greater depth and both tactical and mechanical complexity than either but then I discovered it has a shitload of RNG for no real reason, there are hero abilities that ability have a random chance to stun, banning phase has RNG on whether or not the bans go through and a bunch of heroes have abilities that literally roll a dice to check if they will even work properly.

I have never noped out of a game faster in my life, how the tf have dota devs not realized "rng bad" in all their time developing it?

Is the fanbase that retarded that they have never demanded this shit be removed? I get that valve is stubborn but even the tf2 fanbase managed to get valve to get rid of random damage spread and (if I remember correctly) allow nocrit servers into matchmaking, but everywhere I look up online apparently the retards defend this shit.

Wtf is it with valve and ruining perfectly good games with shoehorned rng?

RNG is a crucial part of DotA2.

If you haven't noticed, most attacks deal something like 90 - 110 damage, as opposed to flat 100. One reason is so that someone with 100 damage can't completely dominate the lane against a 90 damage hero: RNG kind of evens it out.

RNG makes games feel less identical and predictable. Roshan respawns between 8 and 11 minutes, or something like that. On-hit effects aren't bad, a Faceless Void with a basher could jump a Bane and stun him with 1-2 attacks, or he could not and bane would deal enough damage to finish his target off with a brain sap. Bane attacking could have a predictable outcome, or not. There is not just one good outcome for bane; he can stop his channel and disengage, or risk it and get the kill. If he is lucky, his risk will yield reward.

RNG is not bad. You are an autistic retard who spergs when he's not presented with routine and predictable outcomes.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

RNG is a crucial part of DotA2.

If you haven't noticed, most attacks deal something like 90 - 110 damage, as opposed to flat 100. One reason is so that someone with 100 damage can't completely dominate the lane against a 90 damage hero: RNG kind of evens it out.

RNG makes games feel less identical and predictable. Roshan respawns between 8 and 11 minutes, or something like that. On-hit effects aren't bad, a Faceless Void with a basher could jump a Bane and stun him with 1-2 attacks, or he could not and bane would deal enough damage to finish his target off with a brain sap. Bane attacking could have a predictable outcome, or not. There is not just one good outcome for bane; he can stop his channel and disengage, or risk it and get the kill. If he is lucky, his risk will yield reward.

RNG is not bad. You are an autistic retard who spergs when he's not presented with routine and predictable outcomes.

Because in a game with uncountable variables and choices to make every second, hundreds of strategies, thousands of team compositions and millions of possible builds across a team its only rng that stops things from feeling identical and predictable right?

If you have all that, but somehow RNG is literally the only thing preventing your game from being boring then you have a shit game in your hands.

I may be autistic, but you're definitely a retard.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Because in a game with uncountable variables and choices to make every second, hundreds of strategies, thousands of team compositions and millions of possible builds across a team its only rng that stops things from feeling identical and predictable right?

If you have all that, but somehow RNG is literally the only thing preventing your game from being boring then you have a shit game in your hands.

I may be autistic, but you're definitely a retard.

DotA is one of the few games that properly incorporates rng into the game and uses it to create unpredictable encounters.

You obviously are too stunted to read my entire post, probably why you like LoL and why you think RnG is bad. You gave the most retarded summary. Are you 12? I think you should have your head looked up, your last concussion must have reduced your IQ by 1 digit.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Upi

DotA is one of the few games that properly incorporates rng into the game and uses it to create unpredictable encounters.

Your post is stupid and self contradictory. You say that RNG helps so that a character with 90 damage won't be destroyed by one with 110 because it "events out", if it evens out the 110 one is still going to come out ontop on average retard.

All RNG does it make it so you have to avoid close encounters and only take fights that are sure things. The point of a skill based game is that skill comes out ontop, not that you are better than your opponent but they get a better roll than you.

If he is lucky, his risk will yield reward.

how about if he is skilled, his risk should yield reward

You obviously are too stunted to read my entire post, probably why you like LoL and why you think RnG is bad. You gave the most retarded summary. Are you 12? I think you should have your head looked up, your last concussion must have reduced your IQ by 1 digit.

lmao

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Your post is stupid and self contradictory. You say that RNG helps so that a character with 90 damage won't be destroyed by one with 110 because it "events out", if it evens out the 110 one is still going to come out ontop on average retard.

Well if you have 90 - 100 damage and your opponent has 95 - 105 damage, in a hypothetical situation where you would all land your attacks one tick from each other, you would still get 25% of the LHs, even if you were 1 - 2 levels behind. But that's impossible in a realistic scenario, so RnG here makes it so that an enemy can't completely deny you if he gets a little bit of advantage.

All RNG does it make it so you have to avoid close encounters and only take fights that are sure things. The point of a skill based game is that skill comes out ontop, not that you are better than your opponent but they get a better roll than you.

Skill is not just knowing when/how to cast your skills, but also when to start an encounter.

Do you even play DotA?

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Well if you have 90 - 100 damage and your opponent has 95 - 105 damage, in a hypothetical situation where you would all land your attacks one tick from each other, you would still get 25% of the LHs, even if you were 1 - 2 levels behind. But that's impossible in a realistic scenario, so RnG here makes it so that an enemy can't completely deny you if he gets a little bit of advantage.

In a hypothetical scenario it averages out over time so the lane dominant character is still lane dominant and the lane weaker characters are still weak in lane, all the rng does it make so once in a while the weaker character in lane gets a chuckle and the lane bully eats shit.

Skill is not just knowing when/how to cast your skills, but also when to start an encounter.

Yes that's what I said, just don't pick a fight until you're absolutely sure you can win, all RNG accomplishes is make the "I can win for sure" window a bit wider since you have to account for rng going in your favour. Reckless players are still going to have "razor edge" encounters when they pick close fights and more careful ones will wait.

In theory (and probably in practice) it does accomplish making the game more slow paced since teams with a slight advantage can't instantly push it to snowball in case the RNG tips the scales against their favour and they lose the advantage, but there are better ways of accomplishing that than RNG.

Do you even play DotA?

I literally said in my original comment I wanted to play dota until I found out about the rng, what do you think?

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Yes that's what I said, just don't pick a fight until you're absolutely sure you can win, all RNG accomplishes is make the "I can win for sure" window a bit wider since you have to account for rng going in your favour. Reckless players are still going to have "razor edge" encounters when they pick close fights and more careful ones will wait.

You can never be 100% sure. It's not like in LoL where 1 lvl ahead means any encounter with that hero will be defeats. DotA leaves a bit of leeway and unpredictability. That way games are not always 100% the same and predictable.

But yea, when did DotA2 get so fucking bloated? Trying to play with the compendium and it's simply unplayable. Half an hour to load the client, another half an hour to load the actual game.

Cool you can customize each ring on your hero's finger. Can we make it so that it doesn't have 1000 particle effects and needs to load 100 hours so I can actually see it in game in this lifetime?

 

[Null]

Nature's Prophet has been utterly obliterated by the game updates. Completely and totally outclassed in every role he can do and split pushing with treants is a joke.

 

[Ogre Magi]

Nature's Prophet has been utterly obliterated by the game updates. Completely and totally outclassed in every role he can do and split pushing with treants is a joke.

I play in the lower brackets (so my opinion probably means very little), but I think you're right. It's been awhile since I've seen a NP doing rat things in any of my games the last few months. All I see are people playing lots of Mirana, Treeant Protector, and Shadow Shaman. Do you play NP as a 4 typically?

 

[Null]

I played about 600 games of Natures Prophet in 2012 and haven't touched him since. I don't fully understand the tiered roles. But with the death of jungling, he has received no substantial updates to make his kit competitive in a world where Lycan and Tinker exist.

 

[niggers]

i think you should try laning with him, jungle np has been dead awhile

the treecreeps let you block low-ms heroes, providing you with disable that essentially scales with your micro ability. and his rightclick is great in terms of attack animation and base damage. ideally you're offlane and you can use his creeps to stack/sidepull. his new shard is also interesting. 1200 radius slow that reveals units for the price of shard is pretty good.

but overall i agree, he lacks the 'punch' that most heroes have. none of his kit isn't done by somebody else, even his teleport.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Pushers aren't what they used to be.

Heroes received substantial power buffs, which made creeps like Lycan Wolves, Warlock Demons and even Visage Familiars feel underwhelming. Prophet's trees feel like shittier creeps after 15 minutes.

 

[Thornforg]

The real value of NP comes from the ability to be anywhere at any time after the landing stage. Farm one side of the map while you push another. Show in lane and convince the enemy team to start a fight or attempted gank on the other side of the map, show up after they start to move and be a +1 to every single fight.

His damage even with items isn't fantastic. This makes him less desirable for many people. But his ult cool down is short enough to match other incredibly powerful team fight ultis. Silencer, Tide, Dawn, Omni, etc. Use it right, by clicking on the map away from the fight to maximize damage and bounces, and combined with your presence and damage you are one of the strongest global presence heroes in the game.

You can use your W to get vision to scout out a fight, snipe couriers or low enemies or runes, or get yourself some uncontested farm anywhere enemies or allies are not.

He's not an easy hero to play in a core role by any means, but the more you understand and put game theory into practice the stronger he becomes, much like any global hero. As a support he's even harder to play well. At best, you do everything a core does but at lower damage and slower. At worse you're a do-nothing support where you're rivalled with a support PA by feeding your enemy both your trees and yourself in fights. Maybe even your cores if you really fuck up your abilities.

Stop buying Midas. (IIRC on heroes that aren't Ogre or Arcwarden it takes upwards of 20 minutes of perfect timing to start reaping a profit, and realistically takes 15 minutes from the start to get) Stop jungling. You're a pusher and fighter, and you don't need the safe, warded jungle to get the farm you need.

Maelstrom, Orchid into Glip Bloodthorne is pretty common. Scythe is a good late game pickup for disable if you can get good positioning on a high value target.

You don't really need to build Regen past laning because you can be in and out of the fountain in seconds, but Greaves is a great team pickup for NP in the current patch. BKB is obviously a must on a core NP.

In short, to do well as NP you need to understand and implement theory with a functional team. You won't get far if you can't do that.

 

[Ogre Magi]

Stop buying Midas. (IIRC on heroes that aren't Ogre or Arcwarden it takes upwards of 20 minutes of perfect timing to start reaping a profit, and realistically takes 15 minutes from the start to get)

I've been playing ogre as a 3 and 4 (and sometimes as a 2 if I am lucky) and I've have had many of my teammates believe I am griefing for buying Midas. Some games I can understand that mindset when we are behind and I need other items for the team first like aether, force staff, or lotus, but on ogre eventually there is a part in the game where my nextworth make it worthwhile. I wish my teammates would understand this.

 

[Thornforg]

I've been playing ogre as a 3 and 4 (and sometimes as a 2 if I am lucky) and I've have had many of my teammates believe I am griefing for buying Midas. Some games I can understand that mindset when we are behind and I need other items for the team first like aether, force staff, or lotus, but on ogre eventually there is a part in the game where my nextworth make it worthwhile. I wish my teammates would understand this.

Well, to be fair, Ogre Midas can be griefing if you're just buying it because you buy it every time you play Ogre. If your timing is good, sure. Ogre is one of the few heroes that can get a real benefit from an on-time Midas in the majority of games without it being a shitty pick. But if you're at 25 minutes just finishing your Midas, it's a grief. My advice is not to buy Midas piecemeal. Save your gold until you can afford it outright and then decide what to do. Good itemization ultimately comes down being able to read the game.

 

[ANF]