Dr. Who

[AnOminous]

Honestly the problem isnt that Grade tried canceling Doctor Who but JNT let the show deteriorate to the point of being canceled

He was also drinking himself to death at that point (along with being a chickenhawk at cons).

 

[Flexo]

So the MTG Dr Who spoilers have begun in earnest.

Doggo commander go!

But semi seriously, I've been talking around to people about the sets and getting the decks and all. Everyone wants the Dr 9-11 deck with quite a few also very interested in the villains. So far I seem to be the only one interested in the classic Docs deck.

Absolute crickets on doctors 12 & 13. I've heard from nobody even the slightest interest in that save maybe a tiny bit on 12. Has anyone even seen interest - even on reddit - for the 12+13 deck? Or is this about to become like MTG 30th and is going to languish in stores forever?

Seems WotC really messed up. Purely from a selling standpoint, it looks like they should have made docs 1-8, docs 9-13, and then two villain decks. (Classics and Modern? Reoccurring and One-offs? Monsters and Time Lords?)

Ok if you were doing 2 commander decks of Dr Who villains, how would you divide them up?

 

[MirrorNoir]

Yeah I mean I love John Hurt, would love to have him in Dr. Who... but dang if they couldn't work out having Eccelston in the 50th special, then they should have let McGann come in and let the special be his glorious exit and regen story.


Word is JNT really wanted to leave the show long before then but they wouldn't let him.

Story goes that even though the Big Finish folk were explicitly writing McGann as eventually becoming so fed up with the Time Lords/Time War and nuking both the Time Lords and the Daleks, Moffatt was an absurdly obstannant moral fag who never liked RTD having the Doctor genocide his own people.

It's why in the 50th Anniversary he retconned the end of the Time War so that the Doctor called on all of his known 13 (excluding Hand Doctor) incarnations to save Gallifrey instead of destroying it with help from the War Doctor, who only freaking exists to basically absolve McGann/the Eighth Doctor of genocide via the "Night of the Doctor" retcon that said that he basically bailed on the Time War early on.

Adding to that, RTD basically has stated he won't play numbers games to make blackDoctor Who the 14th version after all. In part because he knew damn well that fans would call bullshit on his craven "got to get the normies back" return of Tennant, especially once he admitted it was only for the Anniversary specials. Black Doctor who's going to be the 15th Doctor and his "what the hell is going on" scene in the trailers is going to probably be the final scene of the anniversary trilogy to set up the next season.

Finally, JNT did indeed want out of Doctor Who due to burnout but multiple sources have confirmed over the years that every time that he broached the issue with the top brass of the BBC, they told him point blank that no one wanted to run Doctor Who and that if he quit, they wouldd just cancel the show unless Cartmel had them a replacement showrunner ready to immediately take over. And that one of the very final straws for the show, was when the guy JNT was grooming (Cartmel) started getting offers to work on other shows at the BBC and JNT didn't have anyone else to replace him.

 

[Flexo]

It's why in the 50th Anniversary he retconned the end of the Time War so that the Doctor called on all of his known 13 (excluding Hand Doctor) incarnations to save Gallifrey instead of destroying it with help from the War Doctor, who only freaking exists to basically absolve McGann/the Eighth Doctor of genocide via the "Night of the Doctor" retcon that said that he basically bailed on the Time War early on.

It was my understanding that the 50th was intended to be the first doctor crossover of the "new doctors" with Christopher, David, and Matt all joining together. It was a dispute over the director of the special that caused Eccelston to leave the project. That makes it seem like Moffet was planning on 9 being the one who hit the button, leading to Moffet inventing the War Doctor when his plan A bailed. I had not heard any reasoning on why he didn't just pick up the 8th to fill in the gap. (It would have been fitting, letting #8 be the doctor who both arrived and left in "movies".) So you're saying the reasoning is that Moffet was... too big of a #8 fan?

(I'll admit, part of me loves and hates the end of the time war in that special.)

Finally, JNT did indeed want out of Doctor Who due to burnout but multiple sources have confirmed over the years that every time that he broached the issue with the top brass of the BBC, they told him point blank that no one wanted to run Doctor Who and that if he quit, they wouldd just cancel the show unless Cartmel had them a replacement showrunner ready to immediately take over. And that one of the very final straws for the show, was when the guy JNT was grooming (Cartmel) started getting offers to work on other shows at the BBC and JNT didn't have anyone else to replace him.

Yep, that's what I had heard - thanks for adding in more details. I've heard similar stories with kathleen kennedy having made Star Wars such a mess that no matter how much they want her to leave, they can't find anybody willing to step in to try and right a sinking ship.

 

[Mr. 0]

t was my understanding that the 50th was intended to be the first doctor crossover of the "new doctors" with Christopher, David, and Matt all joining together. It was a dispute over the director of the special that caused Eccelston to leave the project

Eccleston wasn't actually part of the thing (outside of the 9th Doctor being depicted in storyboards for the special), Moffat approached him about it and after a discussion decided not to participate. He had issues with BBC execs being assholes (Russel T. Davies I think actually might have been one of the bigger ones) and other personal stuff during that time that he was still associating with his run (eating disorder and other shit), which is why he steered clear of it as long as he did. That and he was blacklisted from acting in the UK (probably because he gave the execs shit for their behavior), but I don't know if that was still in effect by the time of the 50th.

One of the reasons he jumped on to Big Finish (aside from COVID clearing out his work schedule) was the fact that he wouldn't have to deal with the BBC.

 

[Flexo]

Eccleston wasn't actually part of the thing (outside of the 9th Doctor being depicted in storyboards for the special), Moffat approached him about it and after a discussion decided not to participate. He had issues with BBC execs being assholes (Russel T. Davies I think actually might have been one of the bigger ones) and other personal stuff during that time that he was still associating with his run (eating disorder and other shit), which is why he steered clear of it as long as he did. That and he was blacklisted from acting in the UK (probably because he gave the execs shit for their behavior), but I don't know if that was still in effect by the time of the 50th.

One of the reasons he jumped on to Big Finish (aside from COVID clearing out his work schedule) was the fact that he wouldn't have to deal with the BBC.

I know he wasn't a part of it, I meant they were planning on him being in it at first. I had heard Eccleston's insistence on a certain director doing the special and Moffat refusing is what led to him bowing out of the project.

Though I would not be surprised about the BBC being assholes. I'd even believe the blacklist thing though there doesn't seem to be any info on it other than a few utterings by Christopher in interviews.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Yeah I mean I love John Hurt, would love to have him in Dr. Who... but dang if they couldn't work out having Eccelston in the 50th special, then they should have let McGann come in and let the special be his glorious exit and regen story.


Word is JNT really wanted to leave the show long before then but they wouldn't let him.

i heard that mcgann wasnt accepted by the BBC. not famous enough. shit on moffat all you want but in terms of his weird decisions with the 50 th he did everything right within the restrictions he was given (heckle's tantrum, cant use classic doctors, has to wrap up revived series threads)

 

[Flexo]

i heard that mcgann wasnt accepted by the BBC. not famous enough. shit on moffat all you want but in terms of his weird decisions with the 50 th he did everything right within the restrictions he was given (heckle's tantrum, cant use classic doctors, has to wrap up revived series threads)

That's part of the question then too, what all restrictions were Moffat given for the 50th because I had not heard of a list of those either.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

That's part of the question then too, what all restrictions were Moffat given for the 50th because I had not heard of a list of those either.

it's not explicitly a list but I do remember reading the BBC thought McGann wasnt famous enough, combined with conjecture like that McGann did show up in a minisode but not in the 50th (they couldve still put him in the 50th somehow because clearly moffat wanted it but could only swing for that minisode to build hype) and that there's just an air of homogeny that isnt in the rest of the show. As bad as Doctor Who is I always felt that seasons 1-4 were RTD's vision, 5-10 moffat's, 11 onwards chinballs'. there's definitely a "play it safe" leash on moffat for that 50th. i liked it but that's because it was designed to be likeable rather than risky. like why have baker on but not explicitly as the doctor? reeks of a bbc mandate

there was even an eccleston version of the script: https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-f...on-of-the-doctor-who-50th-anniversary-script/

 

[Flexo]

like why have baker on but not explicitly as the doctor? reeks of a bbc mandate

I always figured it was because he was THE doctor for the longest time and to the most amount of people. I heard he was about as unwilling to come back to Dr Who once he left as Eccelston was, so it was a big hit in fandom for him to briefly show up again. (I mean it is the 50th.) That one I could see going either way.

there was even an eccleston version of the script: https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-f...on-of-the-doctor-who-50th-anniversary-script/

Ooo thanks for this! Really! I love to read old and abandoned scripts so this is a real delight.

So a TON of cards have now dropped. I've decided to post just my favorites and be like @UnKillShredDur and maybe give a review of them.

Spoiler: MTG nerdity

This is one example of maximizing MTG mechanics to capture a perfect feel. You can cast either side, or fuse them together for "Gallifrey Falls No More." In the 50th, I did like the thing with the painting.


Love the art on this one in general, and the flavor - "get 13 doctors and you win" is spot on.


This is to perfectly on flavor. You can literally kill someone... by doing 1 damage to them every 3 turns. Talk about chipping away at the diamond mountain!


Ok this I just find funny. MTG has this whole cycle of "talismans" which tap for a colorless, or 1 of 2 colors at the cost of 1 damage to you. They apparently reprinted them in these sets only... the talismans are doctor clothes.


Just FYI, all the of artwork for the 8th doctor? Comes from the mini-episode he did, not the TV movie.

I do adore the First's special card has black and white artwork.


Finally my boy #2 here definitely ended up with the best art. Looks downright near a photograph of him.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Adding to that, RTD basically has stated he won't play numbers games to make blackDoctor Who the 14th version after all. In part because he knew damn well that fans would call bullshit on his craven "got to get the normies back" return of Tennant, especially once he admitted it was only for the Anniversary specials. Black Doctor who's going to be the 15th Doctor and his "what the hell is going on" scene in the trailers is going to probably be the final scene of the anniversary trilogy to set up the next season.

Can you elaborate on this? What are you talking about? What number's game?

 

[AnOminous]

it's not explicitly a list but I do remember reading the BBC thought McGann wasnt famous enough, combined with conjecture like that McGann did show up in a minisode but not in the 50th (they couldve still put him in the 50th somehow because clearly moffat wanted it but could only swing for that minisode to build hype) and that there's just an air of homogeny that isnt in the rest of the show.

That has to be the dumbest thing ever, but if true, shows why Who is basically a zombie franchise for has-been celebrities to wank themselves off for having been in. If anything, unknown actors should be the Doctor. First example of the dumb celebrity shit would be Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor, because I just couldn't really watch him without thinking of Tristan Farnon.

He did a pretty adequate job, but it was still somewhat distracting.

"Not famous enough" is an absolutely retarded consideration.

It reminds me of how fellow zombie franchise Simpsons mainly exists as a vehicle for dumb celebrity cameos at this point, although I don't think anyone off the Z-list even cares now.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Can you elaborate on this? What are you talking about? What number's game?

After much rumor that RTD was going to reboot the entire franchise and start over with Tennant as a new "First Doctor" along with the rumor that RTD was going to pretend the Chinball and Moffat eras were just fevered dreams Ten/DT had due to radiation sickness (meaning everything after RTD left no longer being canon), RTD instead just had Jodie/13th Doctor regenerate into Tennant. And officially declare that Tennant's return was a brand new regeneration IE the official canon 14th Doctor even though it's a regression.

Part of this, I should note, was pre-established with the fact that Moffatt revealed that the Doctor CAN regress reboot into previous incarnations (the Curator/Tom Baker Doctor from the 50th Anniversary Special established this). As such, Black Doctor will be the 15th incarnation of the Doctor and there will not be any sort of shennanigans for why the Doctor regressed regneration-wise since the idea of Time Lords being able to casually burn through regenerations to try on new bodies (as seen with Lala Ward's introduction as Romana) has always been an elephant in the room that NO ONE wants to touch.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Can you elaborate on this? What are you talking about? What number's game?

Never listen to MirrorNoir about anything. Nothing he says is true.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Never listen to MirrorNoir about anything. Nothing he says is true.

Sir this is a Wendies. Please refrain from throwing fecal matter at the staff and hooting and hollering like a monkey; this is not a furry friendly establishment and we will have to ask you to leave if you start "yiffing".

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Sir this is a Wendies. Please refrain from throwing fecal matter at the staff and hooting and hollering like a monkey; this is not a furry friendly establishment and we will have to ask you to leave if you start "yiffing".

Shut the fuck up nigger. Mods need to ban you from the forum.

 

[UnKillFill]

I have some questions... Is this planet really all that "Impossible"? I have my doubts, but I do remember thinking that this episode was pretty decent last time I saw it... Let's see if I remembered correctly.

(Dr)UnkillShredDur proudly brings you: "The Impossible Planet!"

Spoiler: Still kind of long

I'm gonna try to go back to my roots. These were always better when they were more drunk-ish reactions to episodes rather than full on "reviews."

Anyway, here we go!

This is one of the first things that 10 and Rose see when they show up.

Well that doesn't look good... Seriously though, don't be so hard on yourself episode. This series in particular is about to get a LOT worse than this particular episode, and the show in general lately has managed to make even *those* terrible episodes look amazing by comparison. Hell this is not.

-Speaking of hell.. Bloody hell, it's the Ood. I fucking hate these guys.

-"We must feed... We must feed... We must feed..." Ok, that was a pretty good cold open.

-"We must feed... We must feed... -the ood whacks his ball- We must feed... you if you are hungry."

Spoiler: Same energy

I still thought that was chuckle worthy.

-10 just admitted he has no idea where he is, and that it's "more fun that way." This is really dumb for a lot of reasons, some of which I'm sure will come up in this episode, but it tracks with how stupidly he's acted in multiple episodes of nuwho so far- not even bothering to check basic things when he lands in a new place. He's still an idiot though. I blame Rose.

-I get that from this crew's perspective, it really wouldn't make much sense that 2 random idiots showed up and didn't know where they were... But this is literally the third time now that 10 and Rose have said "No, we actually don't know where we are" and this crew is still acting like they're totally surprised that 10 and Rose don't know where they are.

-Ok, that "planet" is pretty cool. I'm still not sure if it's "impossible" or not yet though.

-The Ood are really fucking creepy. Rose is pretending to be kind to the one who brings her a drink. I guess she senses that is has the same lack of a soul that she does. Right on.

-They're making the same joke I was about to make about how "ood" these aliens are. That isn't a joke, you named them that on purpose. And you should feel bad about it.

When Rose gets told that the Ood are slaves but they like it, she says something really weird..
ROSE: Seriously, you like being ordered about?
OOD: It is all we crave.
ROSE: Why's that, then?
OOD: We have nothing else in life.
ROSE: Yeah, well, I used to think like that, a long time ago.
I really don't understand what she means by that... I don't think that Rose Tyler has ever seriously thought about doing anything for anybody other than herself at any point in her life. Other than maybe that Moffat 2-parter where she acted completely out of character, but I don't think that's what she meant.

-10: There we go. Do you see? To generate that gravity field, and the funnel, you'd need a power source with an inverted self extrapolating reflex of six to the power of six every six seconds.
Me: Wait a minute Doctor... 6..6...6..... Are you telling me that this is some kind of... Satan Pit? Sorry I looked ahead at what the next episode is called and vaguely remembered a big giant red devil voiced by the same guy who voiced Sutekh XD

-The TARDIS got sucked out into space. Ruh roh. This is why you scan ahead Doctor. But I bet you won't learn.

-Lol... Rose just mentioned her time working as a lunch lady in School Reunion, and she's still pretending to show the member of the literal slave race something mirroring compassion. It rewards her "kindness" by saying that an army is going to rise up out of the pit and kill her. (To be fair, it *actually* says they're going to kill *God*, but Rose still probably thinks that they're talking about her.)

-Don't turn around uh oh. The Kommisar's in town oh oh.

Seriously though, Toby turned around and found out.

-I don't think this episode knows what a black hole is... But then again, I don't think we really do either, so fuck it.

-LMFAO Rose just acted like she gives a shit about Jackie. She actually tries to call her on her phone, right after she's told that the signal can't leave the black hole. (For real though, don't even get me started on that fucking phone. I've just realized how many times Rose could have called her mother to tell her she was alright if she actually did give a shit about her, and never did it. What a bitch.)

-Rose is teasing 10 by telling him that he'd have to get a mortgage to live in a house... The implication is that he doesn't have a TARDIS anymore, so he's stuck wherever they are and can't use time travel to get money... I still feel like he would have the advantage. He has intelligence and that would be easy to monetize if he really had to, even in the future.

-Ok.. this episode REALY feels like it should have aired a LOT earlier in the series than it did. (I don't offhand know if it was meant to or not.) Rose just suggested that she and 10 might live together if they had to live on a planer, and then she sheepishly backs off. Rose, you were literally acting like you were already dating in just the last episode, and for several episodes before that even. Mickey is totally out of the way now. Make up your damn mind bitch.

-10: He is awake.
All of the Ood: AND YOU WILL WORSHIP HIM.
Ok, you've won me back episode. That was fucking creepy.

-But you might have already lost me again...

Toby is standing outside of the station in outer space looking in through a window somehow. You're just being goofy now episode. Come on.
I do appreciate the "Joker Dance" music playing though. (I know it's like 13 years too early for that... that's just what it reminded me of XD)

-Was that chick who Toby pulled out into space who is now dead really named "Scooty"?

I guess I missed that. lol. That's a dumb name.

-10 just said "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry." (In regards to Scooty)
I know Magpie said it last episode, but I do believe that this is the first time 10 himself has said it. And so a catchphrase is formed.

-No these people should not be trusting 10... Sorry. Zack, you are a pretty bad captain. (I know you're only *acting* captain, but you still suck at it.)

-Rose wants that space suit back in one piece. I'm pretty sure she gets her wish, I know for a fact that we see this suit again more than once.

-LMFAO!!!!!!! Rose just tells 10 and that other chick to "remember to breathe. breathing's good" and Zack just tells her stupid ass to "stay off the comm." You may suck as a captain, but what a fucking legend.

-Wait Toby is back? I thought he killed Scooty and was outside the ship. Did nobody notice that? Ok.

-Why is 10 the one going out and doing this mission, aside from him being the main character of this show? It's really dumb... The only way it could have been dumber is if Rose was the other one they sent out to do this.

-Dumber even than that.. Why are they trusting Rose with a comm unit. They do not know her and she's already proven more than once that she's an idiot.

-Gabriel Woolf's voice is still badass. Hell yeah.

"The Pit is open. And I am free."
Now that's how you end an episode.

Oh yeah... This is a 2 parter, and I do not at all remember what happens in part 2. Guess we'll find out next time!

 

[Oilspill Battery]

I like the impossible planet because its the closest thing modern media gets to cosmic horror. You're in a cumbling asteroid station, help isn't and can't come, you have no way out, and you're surrounding a black hole suspended from it by unknown and impossible means.

Despite that however, you have food and supplies to last you a while which adds the extra element of mundanity that amplifies cosmic horror and its topped off with some sort of malevolence slowly infected the screw.

It lightning in a bottle imo.

 

[Flexo]

Since we were just talking about him yesterday...



I'll admit, that's some badass art.

 

[Kerr Avon]

Sophie Aldred ( Ace ) got interviewed by Radio Times about her time on the show and her take on Ncuti Gatwa , and dropped this degenerate tidbit.

Archive

One of her sons is a gay drag queen and finally wants to watch the show because of Doctor Niggerfaggot

The Twitter video in this Link has her doing his hair and seems to indicate it is s her youngest , who would've just turned 20 this year.