Dr. Who

This is extremely embarrassing for the UK. RTD is a fucking hack. Its a shame most of the cast is tainted (Barrowman a molester faggot, Sara Jane is dead, Matt Smith is morphing more and more into a foot, Tennant is.....unhinged, the only normal people are Peter Capaldi, Alex Kingston, Donna, and maybe that black girl Martha. Not sure where Karen Gillan is. Probably crying into her Marvel money.)

Oh I forgot about Christopher Eccleston. Didn't he have a falling out with RTD too because if so its probably cause he knew it was gonna turn into shit even twenty years ago.
 
Yes - but that might be because they can't actually guarantee another season, and Disney is rarely transparent about what it chooses to cancel. If the two year hiatus is true, Russell will likely be gone and the Doctor could be recast. It felt in same ways like a bookended sendoff, because Rose is the very first character you see in the revival era.
It also has the mistake/error of Poppy not being his kid, so they could just have an episode or half an episode that starts with a call from UNIT to say they've found more mistakes/errors and then "no wait that's wrong, go back a bit and change something" so the new series starts with a retcon of a retcon to put the timeline back on track without Rose.
 
Jesus, what the hell is Russell doing with Doctor Who? Billie Piper as the Doctor, seriously? As if “bigeneration” wasn’t already a hard pill to swallow.

Moffat flirted with the idea of making Clara the Doctor, but ultimately, wisely only got so far as to just make it a tease.

But Russell? He not only doubled down on Chibnall’s shitty retcon, he is making everything even more ridiculous. Jumping the shark doesn’t even cut it.

I hope you guys watching this are at least pirating it, because if you are paying for this, you are getting scammed. Vote with your wallets, and don’t be swayed just because a random episode is passable. Doctor Who deserves to fail.
 
I haven't watched this show since the tail end of Capaldi's run and I abandoned thread as well as why bother discussing something that they had successfully killed my interest in so completely? But I saw the headline on the BBC, came here and read the last four pages of comments. What I gather is that the canon is a colossal mess, Omega returned, the Rani returned and then a whole lot of names and events I don't understand or know about, none of which arouses my curiosity. It's really shocking how utterly completely they managed to flat-line my interest in the show from being a person who has seen pretty much every episode both Classic and New and has quite a lot of the old Big Finish as well. Even my normally OCD personality can't be bothered to Wiki some of the names or concepts people mention here.

Like another issue is that the money that the BBC spends has to go towards some form of social good or social program, Doctor Who is kind of always existed in that margin because it was ostensibly a educational program before becoming a sci-fi series. But there was always an angle with having historical episodes or a sci-fi episode that deals with some kind of new emerging technology so that in that way it was still somewhat educational. So that's also one reason there's so much push for diversity and all of this because it falls under that umbrella of air quote social good.
I bet the BBC wonks drove the Disney execs crazy with frustration. The cultures are so completely different with the BBC lot used to their cosy insular virtue-signalling back-slapping boys-club dynamic. Whilst I imagine Disney corporate culture to be far more cut-throat.

As to historical and educational, I'm not sure it would even be possible to do a pure historical these days (unless in my absence they did one in which case I'll eat crow). The last pure historical I recall was the... The Black Orchid? I remember it for both Five getting to play cricket and the double take when the maid said the master was waiting, meaning her employer but spooking Five with it.

But as I say, entirely possible since I dropped out they have? But it's no longer what the remaining audience expect.

Whitakers first big finish series is set to come out in July. Eccleston has been doing them for a while now, I think just because big finish started doing Shakespeare as well and he loves Shakespeare so he basically agreed to do some Doctor Who in return for getting to do Shakespeare. Smith has expressed no interest in returning to the series unless he can play a villain of some kind and Capaldi was quite adamant that he wouldn't return under any circumstances so I guess we'll see.
Eccleston is the consummate professional. It really is remarkable given what little has leaked about what he put up with that he still keeps buttoned up on the subject and is still willing to do things like the Big Finish audios. First one I heard him in he wasn't actually playing the Doctor, but Richard the III. He was delightfully grim in it and it's one of my favourite Big Finish audios. At once silly and thoughtful. It's also a pure historical, more or less.
 
Billie Piper has fucked up her face so bad I thought she was that model-turned-TV-personality who got famous for being acid-attacked by her prick ex-boyfriend.
 
I can see it just for the social angle, without Disney it's not like they can afford him but he'd probably take a paycut just to spite the right wing boogiemen and continue to undermine his legacy by making the Doctor gayer and more retarded.


She's gotten a lot of awful, aggressive plastic surgery/botox/lip fillers over the years. She looks horrible. They haven't even started filming new specials or anything yet, she's not going to look the same by the time they get round to it unless she schedules all new injections right before filming.

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She's only 42 years old and looks like she's approaching sixty, all due to how much work she's gotten done, it's insane. It's not like she was a supermodel before or anything but I still thought she was beautiful in her own way, but now she doesn't even look like a person.
I watched the regeneration on youtube and I genuinely didn't recognise her, I had to read the comments to see who it was. People's faces don't actually change too much between their 20s and 40s. I'm a bit older than her, and sure I don't have my early 20s youthful face fat and I have wrinkles that increase a little bit more every year, but I still look exactly like me. When I meet people I haven't seen in 20-30 years, they know me instantly, and the majority of the time - I know them too, even if they have lost or put on a lot of weight, or gone completely grey, or grown/shaved a beard.

Acting is such a horrible industry to age in. I genuinely think she is someone who would have aged really well and could easily have been more attractive in her 40s than in her youth, because (for what it's worth from a straight woman) so much of what made her beautiful was her expressiveness.
 
i’m so glad I never watched any Dr. Who further than the 50 Anniversary Special.
 
What strikes me as well is how much damage was done to these three brands, all virtually facing identical issues of overbearing progressive hellwashing and clueless executives who seem to loathe the thing they're in charge of. Even if people didn't care for a particular Doctor at any given moment, they still had the brand to engage with, books and comics and things. But the awful shit from the TV series is even sinking into those things now.
I think the non-political link was the fashionable and narrow minded desire for subversion by the writers and creators, probably because of things like Game of Thrones and other edgy kinds of shows that became popular last decade. The problem is, these three properties are very traditional, largely upliftings male dominated stories. For all of their complexities, The Doctor is a hero, the Star Trek crew are heros, the Rebels are heros - and they have logical, well known tropes. These universes don't really work on that deconstruction unless you're willing to make characters complicated. As people upthread have said, these politcs would be much more tolerable if they were better written - but the politics of the new generation prohibits classic tropes and complexity as oppression. Women can't be weak, villains can only be misunderstood or paranaturally evil, race and history is just a colour, and all of this must be presented as subversive because it's cool. In short, the people running these very straightforward franchises cannot understand them, cannot write stories or real characters, and believe that subversiveness will make them fresh and exciting. All three of these franchises still believe that strong women are this new and exciting thing that nobody's ever seen before, because that's their least offensive innovation.

I don't think there was a conscious agenda to ruin or neglect these franchises, but since so many of these people were only interested in revisionist politics, a white and black worldview and though subversion came across as hostile, which then pushed the creators of these shows into a reactionary activism because they didn't understand that they were incapable of disguising their politics. The urge to subvert meant everything got tainted - all three of these properties new entries completely wreck, or invalidate the older stuff because the desire to subvert was that shallow. Even Pablo Haldgao's official Disney canon and the Discovery timelines contradict themselves, so why would anyone bother doing a comic or book for a universe that would make it obsolete?

This isn't neglect, or even really spite, this is mass catastrophic failure of imagination from extremely narrow minded and incurious people who don't understand what's going wrong. When they do try and course correct and can't be subversive, the only thing they can do is nostalgia baiting, because they do at least understand that the old things are popular. The canon and history is 'problematic' or whatever, so it's essentially pick and choose, which is why so much of it seems like rushed fanfiction. It's probably the only reason The Rani and Omega were brought back, because given how long they've been away, they didn't do much.

Doctor Who took longer because it's modern audience was much more diverse and progressive and it played with time and rules constantly, which sort of illustrates how incompetent you have to be if it's still a breakneck, confusing, contrived story. I never had a problem with the diversity in Doctor Who, even during the Jodie Whittaker run: it was the completely current thing political leanings in their stories was impossible not to notice. A time travelling white supremacist. The Indian Partition. AI workers replacing people, because nobody had thought of robots in science fiction before. They weren't doing subversive stories, the subversion became the story. The characters were tokenised and made passengers in a political lecture. That last moment proved that Gatwa and Whittaker could have done wonders if they were allowed to be characters.

But of course that's not subversive and current enough, so Russell comes in and makes Davros an old guy, Issac Newton black, puts some trans people in, and brings the most popular Doctor back and reduces him to a stereotype of a black metrosexual, because as he's admitted, that's literally all he can write about. Not to make his politics appealing, or even make a point, it just becomes subversion for it's own sake. Because his politics demand that's all he can do.
TL : DR I don't think they set out to ruin them, but they thought, by fashionably subverting and deconstructing everything with faddish divisive politics, it would be daring and fresh, but their political box renders them incapable understanding the originals beyond being outdated, and unable to tell stories with any care or complexity. They have grown to hate their own franchises because they believe that the backlash comes from bigotry only.

If you think about the diversity 'issue' with Doctor Who in the shallowest, most simplistic way possible, then it makes perfect sense that simply adding a black woman in front of all the white male doctors in the same way they did the War Doctor and saying she started the Time Lord race and was perfect all the time makes complete sense. "Why is it cool? It subverted your beliefs and that's a good thing, because your conception of the world was bigoted and we've fixed it for you. Who cares about canon? "Time is wibbley wobbly...bubbly wubbly stuff., remember?" It's that thinking everywhere now.

Does Billie Piper even have much of an acting career at this point?
Well, the last time I saw Billie Piper, at the end of Season 4, 20 years ago, she couldn't talk properly. It sounded like she'd had a stroke. I guess British pop wasn't really about understandable lyrics back then.
 
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Honestly at this point a hard rest back to 2005 and just outright retconning literally everything with some "heart of the tardis" bullshit is probably a smart move. They can exile Rimjob Tranny Degeneratis and his whole clique and reinstall Ecclestone too while they're at that, I'd watch it, bring back Captain Jack as well while their at it; Chud era Who would be utter kino.
the show's gotten so bad chuds are nostalgic for the pansexual self insert
 
Eccleston is the consummate professional.
Considering how much of a faggot Tennant is at this point, Eccleston's racing up in my estimates of which Doctor actor I like best out of this mess. It seems the ones I like best are the ones that have either disconnected themselves the most (Eccleston, Capaldi), or the ones who were there for the shortest possible stint (Hurt, and by that standard, I also count Rowan Atkinson). Smith seems okay, and I think he's trying very hard to make it as a genre actor (sad, because I thought he was a great Prince Philip in The Crown. I think he's got the opposite problem to Adam Driver, who has a leading man's face and a second-banana personality).

I think maybe Jodie Whitaker might have been trying at least a little, but she was probably caught up a little more about being The Doctor, and not actually embracing the role. Gatwa gives me the strong impression that he's pulling a Robert Pattinson with Twilight - is there for the paycheck and name recognition so he can move onto bigger and better things. The problem with that is, Twilight might have been a paycheck role, but it didn't have the prestige of a role like The Doctor, and Pattinson had the good sense to fuck off and build his rep on smaller projects before taking on bigger ones. Gatwa was in the Barbie movie; he probably thinks he's got an A-list career on lock immediately. I hope he falls flat on his dimwit-looking face.
 
Its kind of hilarious to me that every DEI Doctor they've tried to pull has failed so tremendously they've had to panic and do a surprise regeneration into an actor from the show's silver age.

It's almost like Doctor Who's appeal rests solely on the actors, because everything else about it is admittedly dated and shitty. Its not Star Wars where you can just put brown people in and as long as darth vader is there, people will lap it up. The revival era worked because Ecclestone and Tennant were really fucking good actors, Capaldi was a great doctor and that's the only thing that kept me watching some of his worst episodes. Nobody wants to watch a gay black Doctor run around in a skirt, it's embarrassing and strange and confusing.
 
I think maybe Jodie Whitaker might have been trying at least a little, but she was probably caught up a little more about being The Doctor, and not actually embracing the role.
I didn't want there to be a female doctor for several reasons, but when Jodie Whittaker was announced I thought 'at least they picked someone who should be good'. I knew her from Broadchurch, St. Trinians and Four Lions. She seemed to be good at comedy whilst still able to do some drama. How wrong I was. Then the interviews came out and she was saying how she'd never watched Doctor Who before and didn't until after her audition because she wanted to do it her way. The interpretation of the Doctor by her as a gormless hectoring preachy creature. Though I can't blame her for the scripts.

But this has all been re-hashed many times. I think it's best if the franchise is just left to die at this point.
 
Reminder that they explained that the Doctor took Capaldi's face from another character. So they can't play dumb about the AGP implications.

 
But this has all been re-hashed many times. I think it's best if the franchise is just left to die at this point.
I can almost see the BBC taking the loss to keep dragging it through the mud as a humiliation ritual at this point. Everything you like will become gay and co-opted, and you will be happy.
The interpretation of the Doctor by her as a gormless hectoring preachy creature. Though I can't blame her for the scripts.
Funnily enough I actually think the black fugative Doctor was a lot better than Jodie. Afaik the consensus was almost unanimous that she should have been cast as 13 instead, lmao.
 
I don't she will be the next Doctor because of the lack of Introducing.

I am curious about her wording in the announcement though; "To step back into that TARDIS." I'm hoping they are bringing back Eccleston.
 
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Funnily enough I actually think the black fugative Doctor was a lot better than Jodie. Afaik the consensus was almost unanimous that she should have been cast as 13 instead, lmao.
It should be unsurprising that her actor grew up watching Colin Baker era Who.

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I didn't want there to be a female doctor for several reasons,
On this, I agree. I'm a bit of a purist. If a character is white and male to start, I expect him to stay white and male. If you have the balls to suggest that it is somehow "important" that a character is female or black or gay, then I'm going to tell you that it is equally important for that character to have been what he originated as.

If you want to stand on the idea that identity is important, then I will tell you that you are not allowed to say that characteristics like "white" and "male" are not important, because by saying that if you can easily replace a white and male character into something else, then you are either saying that identity isn't important, or you just hate white men and you may as well own up to it.
 
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