- Joined
- Jul 30, 2017
Troughton is the bomb. I love old Who just with him being a cosmic hobo. The new who making him space Jesus is annoying.
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- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
He wasn't killed by the shootout though, he was killed on the table by a surgeon (Daphne Ashbrook) who thought he had a heart problem and tried to fix it (they gave him an x-ray and both hearts showed up, they noticed something was off about his heartbeat); she fucked it up not knowing what she was getting into and that's what killed him. And Seven was under the entire time, which prevented him from doing much about it. Also the Master started leaking out and sabotaged the TARDIS en route to Gallifrey, which is why the Doctor landed on Earth.
Valeyard works better as a Sixth Doctor era what-if scenario brought to life, and I feel that anything beyond that (I haven't listened to the Eighth Doctor Time War story where he shows up) kind of fucks with the character (anything that modern writers do that could FUBAR the character just by how they currently write notwithstanding)
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2018
Hartnell, Troughton, Colin Baker, and later McCoy are my favorite old Doctors tbh
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
Watching them again years later, I actually didn't dislike Sixth Doctor on the show even. Apart from Alexi Sale (is it him) as a DJ in that weird Dalek corpse one. Perri's death was pretty upsetting, though. I mean... wtaf! And that woman's father begging her to kill him as he is slowly transformed into a Dalek. Nightmare-fuel for young children. I'm not sure NuWho has anything comparable.
Troughton, Colin Baker, Matt Smith are my favourites. Honourable mention to Tennant as he is a fun actor and delivered exactly what was needed at the time. Can't stand McCoy's Doctor.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
I've been sperging out about Jago and Litefoot again recently, and I realized it's been ages since I last watched Talons of Weng Chiang, (and at the time I didn't even really appreciate it because this was before I got into the spinoff)
So I'm watching it all in its entirety tonight.
I might write some thoughts about it tomorrow.
So I'm watching it all in its entirety tonight.
I might write some thoughts about it tomorrow.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
Is The Mahogany Murderers (their backdoor pilot) the only Companion Chronicle you've listened to? Just curious.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
Yeah I think so. I was about to say I've also heard both parts of "The Jago and Litefoot Revival" but I just checked and they're apparently categorized as "short trips" despite having pretty much the same format as the Mahogany Murders.
Are there any you'd recommend? It isn't exactly a format I find myself easily getting into... (I actually got into the J&L series first, and then went back and listened to the backdoor pilot after hearing the first set or two which I had already grown to like)
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
The first one I listened to was The Sentinels of the New Dawn (a Third Doctor/Liz Shaw story) but that was because my intro to Big Finish was The Lost Stories range (it's a prequel to Leviathan, and the original author's son wrote the CC I just named). Stories I would recommend are:
-The Jigsaw War (Second Doctor/Jamie story that jumps around different parts of the story, which is the point because Jamie is also trying to figure out what's happening in what order)
-Ringpullworld (Fifth Doctor/Tegan/Turlough story starring Mark Strickson (Turlough) that has him talking to an alien scribe from a world of alien scribes about the current situation he, Tegan, and the Doctor are stuck in. It fucks with your head part way through if you get into it enough.)
-Bernice Summerfield and the Criminal Code (Seventh Doctor/Benny story, it's something different from the rest of the range a la the New Adventures stories and it makes 7's Scottish accent more prominent, regardless of what you think of 7)
-Solitaire (Eighth Doctor/Charley Pollard story, main villain is the Celestial Toymaker (David Baille, Cotton in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies), and she's trying to figure out the mystery while the setting literally reduces in size as time goes on (the Toymaker's "game"))
-Find and Replace (Third Doctor/Jo Grant story, with Iris Wildthyme, both her and Jo voiced by Katy Manning, was actually a lot of fun to listen to, Alex Lowe's character was in Ringpullworld if you want to check that out)
-A Town Called Fortune (Sixth Doctor/Evelyn Smythe story, features a Big Finish-only companion and is a Western-themed mystery)
-Peri and the Piscon Paradox (Fifth/Sixth Doctor/Peri story, first 2 parts are 5, second 2 parts are 6, the first 2 parts are like your garden-variety classic DW story, the second 2 turn the whole story (read: the entire first half) fucking hilarious before turning dark again.)
-The Sentinels of the New Dawn (Third Doctor/Liz Shaw story, already mentioned this, and they unintentionally predicted a certain epidemic several years ago. Also there's time travel but not with the TARDIS, and chase scenes.)
-The Time Museum (First Doctor/Ian Chesterton story, it's basically a walking recap of Ian's time with the Doctor in a giant museum in space (that he was kidnapped to be a part of) while he struggles to remember what the hell happened and figures out what is going on, it takes place while he's old and basically retired)
-The Scorchies (Third Doctor/Jo Grant story, the villains are killer TV show puppets that they have to stop, if that does anything for you (they try to kill people via a hypnotic kids show)
-Council of War (Third Doctor/Sergeant Benton story, the only CC (and only story featuring him until 2017) featuring John Levene, takes place on an alien world, and he's on his own for most of it)
-The Dying Light (Second Doctor/Jamie/Zoe story featuring Terry Molloy as Stoyn, they end up on a world with people worshipping a puzzle made by Stoyn (his trap for the Doctor)
-Luna Romana (Fourth Doctor/Romana story, originally written for Mary Tamm but not finished before she died, this featured Juliet Landau (Drusilla from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) as a new Romana (she played this role in the Gallifrey range) narrating the original Romana facing Stoyn, while Lalla Ward (second Romana) has a later encounter with Stoyn, all taking place in ancient Rome)
--I didn't include The Beginning (first part of the "Stoyn trilogy" because imo it wasn't that memorable)
The Jigsaw War, The Time Museum, and Solitaire are non-narrated (they happen in real-time like some of the other stories you might've listened to) so those might be a good place to start. I have some others I liked but I picked out the more unique ones that you might be interested in (unless I'm wrong).
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2016
Didn't they retcon Peri's death though?
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
I think in a comic or a novel. Turned out that the version the Time Lords showed the Doctor was fake and she actually was rescued by Brian Blessed and ended up marrying him. He went on to become a famous wrestler on Earth, iirc.
That was much later though and didn't do much to help small me watching her brain replaced by that of an alien slug monster.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2019
No that's not right. It was retconned in the last episode of Trial of a Timelord.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
Huh? I think I remember some character saying that the ending seen might not have been real, but I don't remember anything clearly saying she was alive. Admittedly it was very, very long ago. I'd have to rewatch it I guess.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2019
They had a stupid voice over with a still shot of perry on the matrix screen thing saying she married Brian Blessed at the end. They pussied out on killing her off just like they pussied out having the Valyard being a proper regeneration of the doctor. All JNT's doing.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
What a dick. He's lucky he died before he got MeTooed for real.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
Ah, you're right. It was a very long time ago I watched it and it's coming back now. I just re-watched his regeneration scene as well and I had forgotten how much I liked Six. It's a tiny detail but when Peri hands him her mirror so he can see what he looks like he exclaims about his noble brow, strong jaw and then - this is the bit I love - turns the mirror to Peri and says "see?"
That was pretty funny. Especially like when Bowelstreak interrupted the video.
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- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
That poor actress just imagine "I get to be a character on doctor who!" *gets turned into Cats Reject*
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2017
I finally got through all 6 episodes of Talons of Weng Chiang, and not surprisingly, I loved it. Here are some thoughts in no particular order. As always, spergery ahead. You've been warned.:
-My immediate thought is this serial, would *never* get made "in the current year". For one thing, Li H'Sen Chang, (one the villains in this story), is obviously (and hilariously) a white dude in yellow face.
This doesn't even remotely make John Bennett's performance worse by the way. If anything, it makes it better. He's one of many highlights of the episode.
At one point Leela referred to him as "The yellow one." Even better, Chang himself at one point, while on stage performing a trick with the Doctor says to the crowd: "The bird has flown, one of us is yellow." Fantastic.
-The (seemingly actually Asian) extras that they have playing his henchmen have the most uncomfortable looks on their faces for the entire time that they're on screen, and individual members of his gang are referred to as "a Chinese," so many times (and I laughed every single time.) Also, there are a ton of "problematic" stereotypes, like saying that they're "all addicted to opium." Chang himself even dies smoking opium in some random opium den. Take note BBC, more of this please. It's better than whatever the fuck it is that you're doing now.
-I was surprised by how relatively little time Jago and Litefoot actually spend together on screen. They don't even meet each other until episode 5 of 6... and it is a testament to Robert Holmes' writing, David Maloney's directing, and especially Christopher Benjamin and Trevor Baxter's acting, that by the end of it, I still totally buy that Jago and Litefoot became close friends after their shared ordeal, despite living in two entirely different social circles and monetary classes, at a time when that mattered a lot more than it does now.
-Their chemistry together is fantastic. I would have thought that Benjamin and Baxter had been life-long friends in real life before appearing in Talons, had I not heard (In the bonus features of their Big Finish spinoff) that they didn't know each other before the TV serial, and had very little contact with each other again until "Jago and Litefoot" became a thing some 33ish years later... and it makes me sad that they had to wait so long to get a proper spinoff. And even sadder still that they never got a chance to return to the show proper.
-Professor Litefoot is a straight up pimp in this. He owns multiple high calibers rifles, and isn't afraid to use them to defend his property and his bitches (well bitch, since it's just Leela) while wearing a pimp cape over his evening wear to boot. He still gets jumped by Deep Roy as Mister Sin though... RIP Trevor Baxter, you are missed.
-Henry Gordon Jago is just spectacular here. I am biased, as I've always liked him just a little bit more than Litefoot, but his mixture of confidence and cowardice is at its best here. I may have gotten some genuine feels when Jago finally admits to Litefoot that he isn't as confident as he pretends to be, and is in fact afraid near the end when it looked like the two of them were going to die. Rock of Gibralter indeed. (Though ironically, Jago actually *is* always courageous when it really counts, both in the Big Finish series and in this serial.)
-I know everybody loves Leela, but I usually don't. (Big surprise, right?) Surprisingly though, I actually don't mind her in this serial. Her interactions with Baker are genuinely sweet, and I think she gets to be humanized a lot here from how I'm used to seeing her portrayed. The initial idea of the Doctor trying to show the savage some culture from the history of her ancestors is a great one, and it was funny to me seeing her have to dress up like a lady and hating it. It was even funnier seeing her decidedly *not* acting like a lady when she eats a big chunk of meat right off the bone, and Litefoot (did I mention that he's a total pimp in this?) being the gentleman that he is, actually humors her by grabbing another chunk of meat and eating it the same way. Additionally, she actually seemed to be genuinely fearful after sneaking into, and then escaping from Weng Chiang's lair the first time. She even gets (momentarily) knocked out in a later episode when Chang's lackeys catch her off guard. It doesn't hurt that Louise Jameson was actually a fairly attractive woman back in the day. (I'll admit that I tend to forget that, as I'm much more used to listening to her in Big Finish audios. I've only seen a few of her 4th Doctor TV episodes outside of Talons tbh.) But yeah, Smash or pass on 1977 Louise Jameson? Easy smash for me.
-Speaking of the 4th Doctor, I like Tom Baker as the Doctor, I swear I do... Maybe just a tiny bit less than most everyone else seems to. Ok, so I do think he's just a *bit* overrated. He's perfectly fine, but there are multiple Doctors I like more than him... He isn't even my favorite Doctor with the surname of "Baker." But I never hid my love of Sixie. But he is on point here. He rocks a Sherlock Holmes cosplay for the entirety of the serial, for seemingly no reason at all, and he makes it work. He's actually more serious than I'm used to seeing 4 all throughout... (But he is still a bit silly a few times.)
-Probably the weakest part of this episode for me, (aside from the shitty giant rat effects, which I'll forgive because 70's and BBC,) was the main villain himself, Weng Chiang I mean, tyrant from he future, Magnus Greel. He isn't offensively bad or anything, he's perfectly passable in this story, and Big Finish sure has gotten a lot of mileage out of him over the years, but even with my limited knowledge of early Doctor Who episodes, he's a classic Who stereotype. Every time he spoke he reminded me of this:
Also, he wore a mask for most of the serial (smart) But when Leela pulled his mask off, he looked like this:
Dumb.
This doesn't even remotely make John Bennett's performance worse by the way. If anything, it makes it better. He's one of many highlights of the episode.
At one point Leela referred to him as "The yellow one." Even better, Chang himself at one point, while on stage performing a trick with the Doctor says to the crowd: "The bird has flown, one of us is yellow." Fantastic.
-The (seemingly actually Asian) extras that they have playing his henchmen have the most uncomfortable looks on their faces for the entire time that they're on screen, and individual members of his gang are referred to as "a Chinese," so many times (and I laughed every single time.) Also, there are a ton of "problematic" stereotypes, like saying that they're "all addicted to opium." Chang himself even dies smoking opium in some random opium den. Take note BBC, more of this please. It's better than whatever the fuck it is that you're doing now.
-I was surprised by how relatively little time Jago and Litefoot actually spend together on screen. They don't even meet each other until episode 5 of 6... and it is a testament to Robert Holmes' writing, David Maloney's directing, and especially Christopher Benjamin and Trevor Baxter's acting, that by the end of it, I still totally buy that Jago and Litefoot became close friends after their shared ordeal, despite living in two entirely different social circles and monetary classes, at a time when that mattered a lot more than it does now.
-Their chemistry together is fantastic. I would have thought that Benjamin and Baxter had been life-long friends in real life before appearing in Talons, had I not heard (In the bonus features of their Big Finish spinoff) that they didn't know each other before the TV serial, and had very little contact with each other again until "Jago and Litefoot" became a thing some 33ish years later... and it makes me sad that they had to wait so long to get a proper spinoff. And even sadder still that they never got a chance to return to the show proper.
-Professor Litefoot is a straight up pimp in this. He owns multiple high calibers rifles, and isn't afraid to use them to defend his property and his bitches (well bitch, since it's just Leela) while wearing a pimp cape over his evening wear to boot. He still gets jumped by Deep Roy as Mister Sin though... RIP Trevor Baxter, you are missed.
-Henry Gordon Jago is just spectacular here. I am biased, as I've always liked him just a little bit more than Litefoot, but his mixture of confidence and cowardice is at its best here. I may have gotten some genuine feels when Jago finally admits to Litefoot that he isn't as confident as he pretends to be, and is in fact afraid near the end when it looked like the two of them were going to die. Rock of Gibralter indeed. (Though ironically, Jago actually *is* always courageous when it really counts, both in the Big Finish series and in this serial.)
-I know everybody loves Leela, but I usually don't. (Big surprise, right?) Surprisingly though, I actually don't mind her in this serial. Her interactions with Baker are genuinely sweet, and I think she gets to be humanized a lot here from how I'm used to seeing her portrayed. The initial idea of the Doctor trying to show the savage some culture from the history of her ancestors is a great one, and it was funny to me seeing her have to dress up like a lady and hating it. It was even funnier seeing her decidedly *not* acting like a lady when she eats a big chunk of meat right off the bone, and Litefoot (did I mention that he's a total pimp in this?) being the gentleman that he is, actually humors her by grabbing another chunk of meat and eating it the same way. Additionally, she actually seemed to be genuinely fearful after sneaking into, and then escaping from Weng Chiang's lair the first time. She even gets (momentarily) knocked out in a later episode when Chang's lackeys catch her off guard. It doesn't hurt that Louise Jameson was actually a fairly attractive woman back in the day. (I'll admit that I tend to forget that, as I'm much more used to listening to her in Big Finish audios. I've only seen a few of her 4th Doctor TV episodes outside of Talons tbh.) But yeah, Smash or pass on 1977 Louise Jameson? Easy smash for me.
-Speaking of the 4th Doctor, I like Tom Baker as the Doctor, I swear I do... Maybe just a tiny bit less than most everyone else seems to. Ok, so I do think he's just a *bit* overrated. He's perfectly fine, but there are multiple Doctors I like more than him... He isn't even my favorite Doctor with the surname of "Baker." But I never hid my love of Sixie. But he is on point here. He rocks a Sherlock Holmes cosplay for the entirety of the serial, for seemingly no reason at all, and he makes it work. He's actually more serious than I'm used to seeing 4 all throughout... (But he is still a bit silly a few times.)
-Probably the weakest part of this episode for me, (aside from the shitty giant rat effects, which I'll forgive because 70's and BBC,) was the main villain himself, Weng Chiang I mean, tyrant from he future, Magnus Greel. He isn't offensively bad or anything, he's perfectly passable in this story, and Big Finish sure has gotten a lot of mileage out of him over the years, but even with my limited knowledge of early Doctor Who episodes, he's a classic Who stereotype. Every time he spoke he reminded me of this:
Also, he wore a mask for most of the serial (smart) But when Leela pulled his mask off, he looked like this:
Dumb.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
This is one of my favorite old Who stories, from the ludicrously over the top Fu Manchu villain to the absolutely laughable giant rat, the casual racism, and the nearly ripoff homages to cheesy old media. I miss when the British could do stuff like this and go around saying things like "yellows" and "darkies" without the slightest trace of embarrassment.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
The thing is, I don't recall it being actually insulting towards Chinese people (which is a different thing in this day and age to it being offensive). Yes, he dies of opium addiction but it's portrayed as sad the way I remember it and I think opium addiction is portrayed as something that was a scourge of Chinese communities rather than suggesting it was some inherent flaw or weakness in Chinese people. It wouldn't have escaped many viewers awareness that the British had actively promoted opium addiction to the Chinese for their own profits. I'd take Chang's death more as a condemnation of that and the dangers of drugs than a slight on the Chinese. Doesn't he die dreaming of towers and processions from more glorious days of China's past? To me it spoke of a great culture brought low, not an indolent people which would be the negative take on it. It is years since I watched it, though.
I think the big problem, and it is a show stopper, is that the actor isn't Chinese. I don't have the same cultural history that makes Blackface such a big deal in America but even I get yellowing-up as offensive. Even if the actor played it sympathetically. I've never really bought the rationalisation in some of these old shows that there simply weren't Chinese actors available to play Chinese parts. This makes Talons of Weng-Chiang pretty much unairable except as a curiosity for those who are able to make an allowance for standards of the time.
Leela in this is great. Her best show since her original appearance. Love her interactions with Litefoot.
He's definitely not my favourite Doctor but he expanded what it meant to be the Doctor and contributed more to the development of the character than anyone else. Troughton was to a large extent playing the First Doctor in his own way. There were no "Time Lords" back then and regeneration was not a feature of his species but a change of face. He was different, but not drastically so. Pertwee was again playing his predecessor in many ways and his "regeneration" was basically "the Time Lords forced a new face on him". It wasn't until Tom Baker that we really got the notion of regeneration as this death-cheating reinvention of oneself and the idea that the Doctor's personality would radically change. And that was in large part due to Tom Baker's inability or unwillingness (I can never tell) to lower himself to play anyone other than Tom Baker.
