Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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Lone Star said:
Remember when Gohan unlocked a bunch of power because a slug alien touched his head? Or when an old purple man waved his hands in his face?
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Gravemind said:
Remember when Piccolo just fused with some random dying Namekian? And then Kami?
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Remember when they all ate shit very shortly after all those? Gohan ate shit against Recoome and literally got eaten by Buu. Piccolo tied Frieza for one transformation, and then got his shit pushed with the next one and he also tied 17 before getting shitstomped by Cell.

Most of the free powerups in DB were just a way to catch up.
Lone Star said:
In fairness, the water wasn't special, getting the water in the first place was his training.
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And then he pulled out the real magic water during King Piccolo.
 
capitalBBustard said:
Remember when they all ate shit very shortly after all those? Gohan ate shit against Recoome and literally got eaten by Buu. Piccolo tied Frieza for one transformation, and then got his shit pushed with the next one and he also tied 17 before getting shitstomped by Cell.

Most of the free powerups in DB were just a way to catch up.
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A free powerup is still a free powerup though.
 
Gravemind said:
A free powerup is still a free powerup though.
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This exactly. And fusions, as mentioned before. Do a little dance or put on some earrings and suddenly your strength increases tenfold. I'm just glad anime transformations actually change how characters fight these days instead of just being stat boosts.

capitalBBustard said:
And then he pulled out the real magic water during King Piccolo.
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Wasn't that just anime filler?
 
Gravemind said:
A free powerup is still a free powerup though.
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Nah, there's a huge difference between a randomly handed out free I Win button VS a way to justify certain characters participating in fights without getting oneshot.

A lot of it matters on how it's used and contextualized. Take your Kami example, it is in essence the final payoff to the whole King Piccolo storyline and since bullshit fusion was already established with Nail, it's not that much of a stretch. This would still be a bit lame if Piccolo steamrolled the androids & Cell, but he didn't.

Or take Old Kai's ritual. The whole story is building up to Gohan doing some crazy training with a sword on the mystical planet of the kais, which it then subverts with Old Kai and his silly dance giving him the powerup. It is a fun twist by itself, and it actually paying off is a part of the joke. Still, Gohan beating Buu after this would be kinda lame even though his return to Earth to fight Buu is cool. What happens? Gohan ends up powering up Buu even further instead.
Lone Star said:
Wasn't that just anime filler?
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Nope. The whole nonsense about the lake monster in the magic labyrinth Goku and Yajirobe had to get to was though.

In the manga, Korin just goes to his room and brings out the powerup water for Goku. It's like half a page.
 
capitalBBustard said:
Nah, there's a huge difference between a randomly handed out free I Win button VS a way to justify certain characters participating in fights without getting oneshot.
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But a free powerup is still a free powerup. If you want to focus whether or not it was more of a win button, that's fine, but a powerup being doled out on the spot without any intensive training or passage of time showing that the increase of power was earned through hard work and effort is still, in essence, a free powerup.

Kind of like how Goten and Trunks can just go Super Saiyan from square one without any of the rigors and self-discovery Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan have had to go through by comparison.
 
Why the fuck is every fan manga for Dragonball shit in some way or another. Crimes range from grotesque art, retarded writing, and being written by a Frenchman.

Worst offender I've seen is Multiverse, where it's been stinking up the place for so long while simultaneously accomplishing nothing, it managed to get the term "Frost Demon" for Freeza's race in the english dub of one of the games. (Thankfully, Toriyama shot that name to death with the pointy ear thing)

Multiverse is particularly bad because its fans seem to think that its schoolyard level ideas could only be thought of Salagir, like "what if all the Namekians fused into a boring Mary Sue' or "what if Buu became a boring Mary Sue" or "What if I ripped off a multiverse tournament that western comics have been doing for decades?"

The very concept is ridiculous, too. The writer thought that a bunch of hyper interventionist gods that permit no danger in their own universe would all suddenly get together and host a big tournament that could put the entire multiverse in danger, and have continued that tournament despite 3 attempted takeovers by contestants.
It's a schizophrenic story.

Can anyone recommend a good fanmanga? They can't all be shit.
 
capitalBBustard said:
Or take Old Kai's ritual. The whole story is building up to Gohan doing some crazy training with a sword on the mystical planet of the kais, which it then subverts with Old Kai and his silly dance giving him the powerup. It is a fun twist by itself, and it actually paying off is a part of the joke. Still, Gohan beating Buu after this would be kinda lame even though his return to Earth to fight Buu is cool. What happens? Gohan ends up powering up Buu even further instead.
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You talk like people like this part, and I doubt that.

The whole point of the power-up was so Gohan could beat Buu and he doesn't because Toriyama decided he didn't want to do that, not because he actually thinks unearned power-ups are lame or whatever. Goku got one to fight Piccolo that nearly killed him in the process and that was just enough that if it wasn't for Tenshinhan being a hostage, he would've won [while Tenshinhan's training was useless and he didn't get much of a fight either].

Also, strictly speaking, what did Goku do to 'earn' going SSJ against Freeza? It was about as sudden as Buu absorbing Gotenks/Piccolo/Gohan, and while it doesn't come out of nowhere it also happens because Goku is losing allies left and right and gets so angry he hulks out. What part of that, specifically, was earned?

It wouldn't have been lame for Ultimate Gohan to defeat Majin Buu once and for all at that time, just comparatively so when we got scenes like Vegeta trying to stall despite being way outmatched, all of Earth giving their energy thanks to Mr. Satan, and Goku finally defeating something with his supposed ultimate move. But Toriyama still could've done something to make his victory cool if he had wanted to, he just decided not to.
 
Another Random said:
Also, strictly speaking, what did Goku do to 'earn' going SSJ against Freeza? It was about as sudden as Buu absorbing Gotenks/Piccolo/Gohan, and while it doesn't come out of nowhere it also happens because Goku is losing allies left and right and gets so angry he hulks out. What part of that, specifically, was earned?
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Extremely close fight against Vegeta
Spent a week training in multiple times Earth's gravity
Almost died fighting Ginyu (kinda)
The fight with Frieza pushed him to the absolute limit

If you don't think Goku "earned" SSJ, I'd like to know what a character has to do to "earn" a powerup in your eyes.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
Extremely close fight against Vegeta
Spent a week training in multiple times Earth's gravity
Almost died fighting Ginyu (kinda)
The fight with Frieza pushed him to the absolute limit

If you don't think Goku "earned" SSJ, I'd like to know what a character has to do to "earn" a powerup in your eyes.
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The rigorous training and various Zenkai boosts definitely helped condition his body and refine his technique to be an even more capable fighter, but we've also been shown it takes more than that to achieve Super Saiyan (at least before Buu Saga basically went "Fuck it, even the kids can have Super Saiyan just because").

Which, I guess you can argue it was "earned" by virtue of the fact that Goku got more pissed than he ever has in his life (same with Gohan and Future Trunks). Just like how Vegeta "earned" his through sheer frustration at the fact that he couldn't simply train his way into gaining the transformation, but even then, it boils down to a matter of personal perspective.

I see the Wiki also brings up some gay shit about "S-Cells" that I have literally never heard of before until now, but we all know well enough by now that Toriyama (God rest his soul) loved his retroactive continuity.
 
Last chance for SSJ4 Vegeta and a new fusion tonight. Also, I wonder what the wish Glorio made was. Break the barriers between worlds? It's definitely not making Arinsu the King of the Demons, that's for sure.
 
If Toriyama made Daima just to "canonize" SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ4 Goku...then ya know what, gg Toriyama.
...Also, exposing Vegeta's kinks.

...Holy shit Goku removes his shirt to transform into SSJ4.
 
starborn427614 said:
Last chance for SSJ4 Vegeta and a new fusion tonight. Also, I wonder what the wish Glorio made was. Break the barriers between worlds? It's definitely not making Arinsu the King of the Demons, that's for sure.
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Well, I was wrong on all counts lol. I doubt there's enough time for a fusion next time either given there's no way the finale will be double-length.
 
Gravemind said:
I see the Wiki also brings up some gay shit about "S-Cells" that I have literally never heard of before until now, but we all know well enough by now that Toriyama (God rest his soul) loved his retroactive continuity.
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Yeah that's something he pulled out of his ass in the middle of an interview iirc. Genuinely funny to me, that one.
 
It's the birthday of this VA
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Voice of Bulma in Daima also played these other roles
 
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