Elden Ring

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HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I’m like 70% convinced the Scadu Tree avatar was supposed to be Godwyn’s mermaid form or a base for it. The attacking the sun flower would have just been hitting the clam shell til it breaks. The revivals being that Godwyn cannot truly die as he has an immortal body. His projectiles all look like Death Blight and his area looks other death blight ridden areas.

I could 100% believe that the Sunflowers were supposed to be the new Tree Spirits in concept.

The DLC would have been much better if DLC was Miquella abandoning everything to stop Deathblight and his first attempt at killing Godwyn’s undead body caused an outer God to possess it. First Boss fight is a gimmick boss that rather than going to phase 2 ends with the Tarnished Godwyn fleeing after being freed from the Merman shit.
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I'm pretty sure Godwyn is already the avatar of an Outergod, the only non-cursed demi-gods are the minor demi-gods and the Rennala-Radagon kids. We also see other Souless Demi-gods, but their bodies don't produce Deathblight, not to mention the undead Deathbirds and Death-rite Birds which predate Godwyn inflict Deathblight as well as Frost through their ghost flame.
We also know the Deathbirds had a mother in the form of the Twinbird who was associated with the colors red and blue, but is no longer around. So I think after Godwyn died, she like the Rot God with Malenia took the opportunity and made Godwyn into an Outer God Avatar when his soul was killed.
Additionally, the DLC confirms his body is alive and has a mind of sorts as Godwyn's knights are acting on his orders to search out and protect his Corpse Surrogates. Although it seems a bit strange, the D brothers do seem to indicate you don't need a soul to have a mind as they each have their own mind but share a soul. Additionally, if you try to kill Fia in front of Godwyn he will attack you by casting Death sorcery which have a Int requirement.
Those Who Live in Death are also described as being outside of the order, like the Outer Gods and their servants are. Charo's Hidden Grave and the Cerulean Coast also seem to be colored after the blue and red Twinbird mother, and like the central gravesite plain, are full of grave birds.

And for Miquella, it's worth noting that while he claims to be all inclusive and invites all those spurned by the Erdtree, the Miquellan Knight's Sword uses Sacred Blade as it's Ash of War. An anti-undead spell also used by fundamentalists such as the D brothers who Goldmask is critical of due to their zealotry. Undead are also absent at the Haligtree despite it allowing Rot Kin, Albinurics, and Misbegotten into the ranks of the Haligtree.
Saint Trina, who Miquella locked away, is also a death god who is protected by the undead due to the peaceful rest she is able to grant them.
So I think a death god focused DLC was definitely in the cards as a possibility.
 
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I never realized this until now.
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HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I never get why people think Marika shattered the ring out of grief. I think she sanctioned Godwyn’s death due to realizing the Fingers are both cut off from the Greater Will (which may just be the Demiurge, not actual God) and deranged.

Gideon’s dialogue and sending the Tarnished out as tie breakers are what make me think that. Marika basically had no loyalty to the order, her other half did. Her Shattering the Ring meant that the Order no longer had kill switches on hero’s (literally read the Rune descriptions) and that something to potentially kill the Greater Will could arise. Basically none of the Demi-Gods have a living Fingers beyond Ranni’s giant one.

@Mega Black
I’m like 70% convinced the Scadu Tree avatar was supposed to be Godwyn’s mermaid form or a base for it. The attacking the sun flower would have just been hitting the clam shell til it breaks. The revivals being that Godwyn cannot truly die as he has an immortal body. His projectiles all look like Death Blight and his area looks other death blight ridden areas.

I could 100% believe that the Sunflowers were supposed to be the new Tree Spirits in concept.

The DLC would have been much better if DLC was Miquella abandoning everything to stop Deathblight and his first attempt at killing Godwyn’s undead body caused an outer God to possess it. First Boss fight is a gimmick boss that rather than going to phase 2 ends with the Tarnished Godwyn fleeing after being freed from the Merman shit.
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That actually makes A LOT of sense. I got the feeling when I fought the avatar that the boss felt out of place and led ultimately to nothing and seemed to have some sort of importance at some point. A couple things to remember:
1)Mohg was a last minute addition to the game and lore (if you ever wonder why your character turns around and starts walking to the Haligtree between phase 1 and 2 of Malenia it's because when the cutscene was made, the lore was that Miquella was still in his cocoon in the tree and he started talked. Those lines are in the game files)
2)Messmer was written for the base game (He was probably supposed to be working with Rykard since they were both in charge of crusading the inquastioning, hence the snakes)
3)The base game was supposed to have a huge element about Dreams with it.

After the game was released, there was a large patch that listed 3 DLCs 'Shadow of the Erdtree', 'Barbarians on the Badlands', and a 3rd unnamed one. The Badlands one listed that we'd be chasing Miquella across it. People theorized that the 3rd one would be a time travel one covering the Gloam-eyed queen and the godskin hunt (since the main theory wass that Melina was the queen reborn through Marika).

But just looking at the lore, it makes sense that it was originally supposed to be a Godwyn themed DLC. At the end of the catacombs in the base game, you had the erdtree roots tangled with corpses since everyone was supposed to be returned to the tree when they died. Meanwhile in the DLC you have Godwyn's face and his Death Knights guarding it, which would imply that the Scadutree is just an overgrown version of Godwyn since he's tangled up in the roots of the Erdtree. With St Trina in the DLC, that could influence the whole dream aspect of the Shadowlands. Plus you didn't mention the root attack. Throughout the game you're collecting those death roots to feed to maliketh and death blight curse statue effect causes roots to sprout out of your body swarming with insects. The Sunflower could've originally shot those out and build up death blight instead of bleed.
 
@Lizard Machine Bugs

I mean like actively possessing the body. It’d be neat if they had a Genichirou style boss where the boss retreats after you beat it rather than just killing it. If they did something like you cause Godwyn to revert to his pre-death blight form that would’ve been kino.
 
Just killed the second Divine Beast Dancing Lion and it was a pretty fun fight using what I learned from the first regarding the moveset, and the "fun" adds being another phase that needed to be dealt with.
 
Spud said:
Better dead than remade for "Modern Audiences" that destroys everything that is loved about the original.
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This is why I keep telling those who are still hooked onto Bloodbornium to stop wishing a Demon's Souls Remake fate on your beloved game and just emulate the damn thing on PC. Inevitably the "modern audience" who only played the remake won't give a shit about what makes the original so good in the first place and you'll end up with a divided fanbase. Remakes are genuinely a retarded idea and anyone suggesting it should be lined up to a wall. For every decent but questionable remake (Biohazard remakes et al) there's 10 shitty ones.

Regarding another Elden Ring DLC, we will be at least another 2 years away for another one if it's around the same content size as SOTE and I'm hoping for more Godwyn's lore and more deathblight spells/incant/weapons. Deathblight as a status effect in game right now have very few viable options to work with and only one weapon with infusible Deathblight on a unique ash. Deathblight should've inflicted some kind of debuff in PvE while keeping the instakill effect.
 
Do you think they'll make another dlc? I know Michael Sake said that the door wasn't closed but I'm not sure how likely it will be.
 
SlaanyChaser said:
Do you think they'll make another dlc? I know Michael Sake said that the door wasn't closed but I'm not sure how likely it will be.
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There is potential for a Godwyn DLC but it'll be a long wait if they started working on it immediately after SOTE. There are rumors about an Armored Core 6 DLC in the work from their recent hiring announcement but there's nothing else.
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I mean like actively possessing the body. It’d be neat if they had a Genichirou style boss where the boss retreats after you beat it rather than just killing it. If they did something like you cause Godwyn to revert to his pre-death blight form that would’ve been kino.
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Honestly, I don't like resurrection tropes, and as much misgivings I have for bringing Radahn back, I would have disliked Godwyn being in his prime form even more.
Godwyn becoming the Prince of Death, is too important to the narrative, since it kicked everything off.
If he did come back, I would prefer he still be deathblighted since as the Prince of Death he serves as an effect foil to Malenia.
Malenia is a dead beat mother who abandoned her peoples and kids at the first opportunity allowing them to fall under the influence of Gowry and Miquella, it's not like she has to take over the world for the sake of the Rot God, but she literally makes not attempts to be in the life of her subjects and has no presence in the life of her kids like Moore or Millicent. Which just continues the forever war in Caelid and solves nothing all while she mopes on a chair about her twin brother.
Compared to Godwyn who suffers nobly and despite having much worse circumstances is trying to do the best for his people and create the Age of the Dusk-Born so they won't be excluded from the order and despised anymore, even if it leaves him stuck in his souless state he keeps by his honor and nobility and is trying to help the people who have unfairly fallen out of the order through no fault of their own.
 
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
Honestly, I don't like resurrection tropes, and as much misgivings I have for bringing Radahn back, I would have disliked Godwyn being in his prime form even more.
Godwyn becoming the Prince of Death, is too important to the narrative, since it kicked everything off.
If he did come back, I would prefer he still be deathblighted since as the Prince of Death he serves as an effect foil to Malenia.
Malenia is a dead beat mother who abandoned her peoples and kids at the first opportunity allowing them to fall under the influence of Gowry and Miquella, it's not like she has to take over the world for the sake of the Rot God, but she literally makes not attempts to be in the life of her subjects and has no presence in the life of her kids like Moore or Millicent. Which just continues the forever war in Caelid and solves nothing all while she mopes on a chair about her twin brother.
Compared to Godwyn who suffers nobly and despite having much worse circumstances is trying to do the best for his people and create the Age of the Dusk-Born so they won't be excluded from the order and despised anymore, even if it leaves him stuck in his souless state he keeps by his honor and nobility and is trying to help the people who have unfairly fallen out of the order through no fault of their own.
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I mean the issue with Godwyn is that he’s not there anymore. It’s a mindless, soulless corpse that is spreading like cancer. Those-Who-Live-In-Death are either zombies living in rotting corpses, ghosts, or some screaming abomination. He can’t be revived, true Death is a mercy kill.
I always found Fia to basically just be a cult leader leading people who don’t understand what’s going on against people who also don’t know what’s going on.

The boss fight I’d want is just you fight the revived Merman that swimming like a dumb animal. It does the Scadu Tree revive everytime drawing on the power of an Outer God before the clam shell is smashed and Godwyn flees. Then the next boss first is the corpse being puppeted to act like Godwyn proper with the first phase being death lightening out the ass. Gross tree root fly spear or ass with the 2nd phase being the corpse finally dying and the desperation attacks opening up longer punish windows. Like throwing an axe down and missing causes the axe to get stuck.
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I mean the issue with Godwyn is that he’s not there anymore. It’s a mindless, soulless corpse that is spreading like cancer. Those-Who-Live-In-Death are either zombies living in rotting corpses, ghosts, or some screaming abomination. He can’t be revived, true Death is a mercy kill.
I always found Fia to basically just be a cult leader leading people who don’t understand what’s going on against people who also don’t know what’s going on.
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As I said earlier, I don't think Godwyn is mindless, just soulless and paralyzed.
And for Fia, well, again, Godwyn is protecting her and the armor set of his knights describe how their loyalty to Godwyn is unbroken on the helmet, how they are questing to find his Cadaver Surrogates for the Age of the Duskborn on their armor, and are protecting his Cadaver surrogates as described on their weapons. Before I thought it was ambiguous whether Godwyn was still mentally there and also aiming for the Age of the Duskborn, but now I'm certain he is.
Rogier, and even Gold Mask are also critical of the hunting of Those Who Live in Death, who by Rogier's own description, need not commit any crime to become undead. They are persecuted and hunted down for something they have no control over, all while villains chop them up and graft them together to manufacture Royal Revenants or are having their bodies hijacked by parasitic crabs in the cases of the Cemetery Shades. I guess there are also the Putrid Corpses and the screaming crucified people, as well as the noble and commoner enemies, but they aren't Those Who Live in Death and aren't weak to holy damage as they are just unable to die.
The Tibia Mariners stay to themselves and soothe the souls of the dead, Those Who Live in Death don't invade other areas like the Rot Kin do and mostly seem to want to be left alone. While the Deathbirds, Death-rite Birds, and Gravebirds seem to mainly hunt Tarnished and collect the Undead in order to give them proper burial.
 
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
If he did come back, I would prefer he still be deathblighted since as the Prince of Death he serves as an effect foil to Malenia.
Malenia is a dead beat mother who abandoned her peoples and kids at the first opportunity allowing them to fall under the influence of Gowry and Miquella, it's not like she has to take over the world for the sake of the Rot God, but she literally makes not attempts to be in the life of her subjects and has no presence in the life of her kids like Moore or Millicent. Which just continues the forever war in Caelid and solves nothing all while she mopes on a chair about her twin brother.
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Malenia wants nothing to do with the Kindred of Rot as they remind her of the Rot festering within her that she sealed away. If anything, she'd be happy if they were purged from the land.

Lizard Machine Bugs said:
Rogier, and even Gold Mask are also critical of the hunting of Those Who Live in Death, who by Rogier's own description, need not commit any crime to become undead. They are persecuted and hunted down for something they have no control over, all while villains chop them up and graft them together to manufacture Royal Revenants or are having their bodies hijacked by parasitic crabs in the cases of the Cemetery Shades. I guess there are also the Putrid Corpses and the screaming crucified people, as well as the noble and commoner enemies, but they aren't Those Who Live in Death and aren't weak to holy damage as they are just unable to die.
The Tibia Mariners stay to themselves and soothe the souls of the dead, Those Who Live in Death don't invade other areas like the Rot Kin do and mostly seem to want to be left alone. While the Deathbirds, Death-rite Birds, and Gravebirds seem to mainly hunt Tarnished and collect the Undead in order to give them proper burial.
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I don't recall Goldmask having no problem with the undead, if anything he'd see them as proof that the gods need to be removed from the equation.

You forgot basilisks. Basilisks spread deathblight.
 
Coldgrip said:
Malenia wants nothing to do with the Kindred of Rot as they remind her of the Rot festering within her that she sealed away. If anything, she'd be happy if they were purged from the land.
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Yes, but then why doesn't she purge them then, all she does is mope inside the Haligtree all day doing nothing. It's rather pathetic and I look down at her for it, she's the one responsible for the spread of the Rot in Caelid and one way or another she should take responsibility for her actions.
Coldgrip said:
I don't recall Goldmask having no problem with the undead, if anything he'd see them as proof that the gods need to be removed from the equation.

You forgot basilisks. Basilisks spread deathblight.
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The Basilisks look like Godwyn so I'm pretty sure they're byproducts of him somehow, a symbotic species maybe? But for Goldmask, it's mentioned in the description of Order healing.

One of the incantations of the Golden Order fundamentalists.
Used by hunters of Those Who Live in Death.

Alleviates death blight buildup.

The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.
How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the
ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their
foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.

Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?
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The quote from Litany of Proper Death and Order's Blade also might be him making a critical statement of them since he doesn't seem to believe Order needs an absolute evil. Given his beliefs his Perfect Order, while not for the sake of Those Who Live in Death, probably is not an order which discriminates against them or explicitly reject the notion of Life Within Death.

The role of the hunters is to stamp out defiled reason - all for the perfection of the Golden Order.
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Lizard Machine Bugs said:
Yes, but then why doesn't she purge them then, all she does is mope inside the Haligtree all day doing nothing. It's rather pathetic and I look down at her for it, she's the one responsible for the spread of the Rot in Caelid and one way or another she should take responsibility for her actions.
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I just assumed that she was broken from her fight with Radahn. Not only did her prove her equal, he made it seem like her brother's plan of world-wide brainwashing a world of love and peace wouldn't come to fruition. So she goes nuts from it. Calling on the Rot god's power probably didn't help her mind any either.

Agree otherwise though, she threw a tantrum and the rest of the land, and world, has to pay for it.
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
The Basilisks look like Godwyn so I'm pretty sure they're byproducts of him somehow, a symbotic species maybe? But for Goldmask, it's mentioned in the description of Order healing.
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Close, the basilisks sprang up from Godwyn's death.

Lizard Machine Bugs said:
The quote from Litany of Proper Death and Order's Blade also might be him making a critical statement of them since he doesn't seem to believe Order needs an absolute evil. Given his beliefs his Perfect Order, while not for the sake of Those Who Live in Death, probably is not an order which discriminates against them or explicitly reject the notion of Life Within Death.
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I think it's more a comment on how the zealots have forgotten to pursue transcendence instead of fighting some pointless crusade. I don't think he hated them, but I don't think held any real compassion for them.
 
This video covers the effects Godwyn is having upon the land well.
 
Coldgrip said:
I just assumed that she was broken from her fight with Radahn. Not only did her prove her equal, he made it seem like her brother's plan of world-wide brainwashing a world of love and peace wouldn't come to fruition. So she goes nuts from it. Calling on the Rot god's power probably didn't help her mind any either.

Agree otherwise though, she threw a tantrum and the rest of the land, and world, has to pay for it.
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I'm aware of her circumstance, but I've begun to judge her more harshly after reading the Death Knight set, Godwyn got stuck in a much worse situation with his body being turned into cancerous mass, his soul being destroyed, and being total paralyzed, but he's still doing a lot more then she is.
Even if I don't agree with the whole "Mending Rune of the Death-Prince" reincarnation plan, but then again nobody else has any options to solve the whole death blight and undead issue. Even if the plan is to just make that stuff a part of the natural cycle and not remove it entirely, unfortunately not even Maliketh with all those annoying gnome mercenaries he hires can't weed the stuff out.
 
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