Epic Games General Thread - Its time to talk about what the AAA gaming industry does not understand about the PC console.

Remove Goat said:
Holy shit, that's ass. Two fucking launchers just to play one game.
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That's happening because they have built-in dependencies to the Origin platform itself. I mean, if you use Steamworks for instance, you have a dependency to that, and it's quite a bit of work to replace it. It's really to be expected that EA's engine has some hardcoded dependencies on Origin, though i'm not sure if that's the case or whether it's just common policy given that it has been their exclusive marketplace for so long. Whether or not the practice persists now that they've joined back with Steam remains to be seen.
 
So, this is quite a bit late, but it seems to not have hit many major news outlets. https://www.ccn.com/the-epic-games-store-has-a-massive-security-fault/

The long and short of it is that among other things, you can play games that you don't own. That's because they're highly competent professionals who can't make a reliable, sensible store backend that would allow them to have a shopping cart, among other features.
 
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KanaPostsonKiwi said:
So, this is quite a bit late, but it seems to not have hit many major news outlets. https://www.ccn.com/the-epic-games-store-has-a-massive-security-fault/

The long and short of it is that among other things, you can play games that you don't own. That's because they're highly competent professionals who can't make a reliable, sensible store backend that would allow them to have a shopping cart, among other features.
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HAHAHA OH WOW

BUT IT'S BETTER FOR GAME DEVS THEY SAID
 
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You know, i wonder what the minimum requirement for EGS understanding it as a game is. Is a correctly named folder or directory tree enough? What about a single file placed in the correct folder? If i wanted spyware on my machine i'd already be testing it... though maybe i'll put up a virtual machine and go spelunking later.

In before some warez group starts spreading ~200kb downloads for full games on the EGS that the well-made launcher understands as fully legitimate purchases and there's no way to reverse it from their end.
 
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KanaPostsonKiwi said:
So, this is quite a bit late, but it seems to not have hit many major news outlets. https://www.ccn.com/the-epic-games-store-has-a-massive-security-fault/

The long and short of it is that among other things, you can play games that you don't own. That's because they're highly competent professionals who can't make a reliable, sensible store backend that would allow them to have a shopping cart, among other features.
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Theoretically Epic just made piracy easy as fuck, exclusively through Epic tho. At least with Steam you actually have to crack the Steam_API.dll file to fool the game into believing it's a legit install with Steam running but with the way Epic seems to be set up you could potentially just drop the game install folder into your Epic Games folder and play away, no cracks required.
I'd love it if someone could test this. Install game using legit account, transfer the game files onto a disc or memory stick, jack that shit into another PC and install it for a completely different Epic account than the one it was originally installed on. If it runs then yeah, Epic is an even bigger contributor for piracy than previously imagined because now pirates don't even need to have any of the current skillset, just upload the zipped files and away you go.
 
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xr95 said:
That's been the standard since ubishit also
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you mean since GTA4?

KanaPostsonKiwi said:
That's happening because they have built-in dependencies to the Origin platform itself. I mean, if you use Steamworks for instance, you have a dependency to that, and it's quite a bit of work to replace it. It's really to be expected that EA's engine has some hardcoded dependencies on Origin, though i'm not sure if that's the case or whether it's just common policy given that it has been their exclusive marketplace for so long. Whether or not the practice persists now that they've joined back with Steam remains to be seen.
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it's about control, having your business depend on another company, even with contracts, is always a liability. not to mention contracts mean fuck all when said company folds (unlikely with steam, but see gamespy). not that EA cares about their old games tho. what they care about is locking down the product, so no public server files and mod tools to artificially increase the lifespan of the product and less competition with autistic modders (unless you can monetize it like bethesda or valve). requiring their own service is just an extension of that.
they're probably testing the waters with a singleplayer game, more interesting will be the handling of DLC - valve forbids having a store in the launcher and requires dlc or even currency for a game purchased on steam to be bought there as well, that's why uplay and certain mmo launchers are castrated and redirect to steam.

ExceptionallyExceptional said:
Theoretically Epic just made piracy easy as fuck, exclusively through Epic tho.
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they do it with their exclusivity shit alone. trying to establish a walled garden on an open platform is retarded to begin with, even more when you take zero precautions and make the actual purchase a fucking pain in the ass. how long ago did gabe say piracy is a service problem and timmy rant against microsoft trying to lock down windows?
 
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Secret Asshole said:
Well when you buy Red Dead Redemption 2 for 60 million for one whole month, AAA studios are going to expect the same.
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Just to throw in free games and perks if you wait a month and buy it on Rockstar's own launcher, which they might require in an update eventually anyway. That's some gangster shit.

The only games I think would really make their exclusivity worth the money are mid-tier games with dedicated fanbases, like Shenmue III, though it really put a bad taste in my mouth how they tried to force their Kickstarter backers to choke down Epic keys. As for indie games, does anyone actually give a shit about Ooblets? Or even remember that? It was their chance to make a first impression, and they came off as massive assholes. They're blacklisted in my mind.

Man, who knew the entire company behind the Unreal Engine would turn into one huge lolcow?
 
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ScatmansWorld said:
How much do you want to bet that within a few years, Epic Games will make it so that if you use Unreal Engine, you can only sell your game on the Epic Store for PC platforms?
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I'm genuinely surprised they haven't done that yet. They certainly have the leverage to. The list of games that uses it is fucking enormous and includes shit I'd never expect, like Octopath Traveler and Mighty No. 9. You just can't avoid it. I guess there are tons of other games engines out there that are more accessible, but it's still the most stable thing they sell.

I just checked, and their About page does say that they'll waive the 5% licensing fee if you make a UE4 game and sell it on Epic. Also they have a graph that shows how Unity + Steam is a better deal than UE4 + Steam, hahahahaha.
 
Pissmaster General said:
I'm genuinely surprised they haven't done that yet. They certainly have the leverage to. The list of games that uses it is fucking enormous and includes shit I'd never expect, like Octopath Traveler and Mighty No. 9. You just can't avoid it. I guess there are tons of other games engines out there that are more accessible, but it's still the most stable thing they sell.
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Wow, I knew the unreal engine was big, but I didn’t know it was used for every game ever fucking made.
 
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Pissmaster General said:
As for indie games, does anyone actually give a shit about Ooblets? Or even remember that? It was their chance to make a first impression, and they came off as massive assholes. They're blacklisted in my mind.
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Coming from someone who followed their monthly dev blogs since 2018, I was already on the fence with that game even before the exclusivity drama because of how awful the development progress has been. The game was announced back in 2016 explicitly citing Stardew Valley as a major inspiration, which isn't unusual on it's own. Stardew singlehandedly revived the whole genre of RPG/life sim hybrids in the indie scene with many other games citing it as an inspiration including Graveyard Keeper, My Time at Portia, Forager, Kynseed, and many more.

The problem in Ooblets's case is that the game was originally planned to release in 2018; yeah, needless to say they didn't come close to meeting that deadline. Oh but don't worry, "we’re definitely feeling like things are coming together." and "stay tuned because we’re in the final stretches of development!" (source: http://archive.li/SPFkF) all while changing the Steam release date to 2019. Fast-forward to today, and there's still no sign of the game being anywhere close to done. Hell their most recent blog post mentioned that they're now reworking the combat, one of the game's primary mechanics, and that, "we’ve still got a ways to go on it," (source: http://archive.li/ZX28N) again at a time where the game was planned to be ready for full release after already delaying release once.

All of these problems on top of them immediately saying yes to Epic's money plainly shows to me that they really have no faith in this game succeeding at all. And they're right to worry, because just like how "no one's entitled to a game," game devs aren't entitled to successful sales. Especially when the game's a mediocre mess that just barely managed to claw its way out of development hell. Toxic PR aside, there are already so many good RPG/life sims on Steam alone that most people could easily ignore Ooblets for other games without batting an eye.
 
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Floop said:
Wow, I knew the unreal engine was big, but I didn’t know it was used for every game ever fucking made.
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Yeah, which makes Sweeny's autism even more questionable. I really don't know of a single problem with Unreal Engine, it just seems to work well on every platform for any genre. Hell, it says something that Squeenix developed their own game engine, and then chucked it straight out of the window after Final Fantasy XIII-3, only to make another engine and chuck that out of the window after FFXV in favor of Unreal Engine.

Valve and Epic both have stores, and proprietary engines. Valve's store is great, but Source is very limited. Epic's store is bullshit, but Unreal Engine is amazing. Christ Almighty, Sweeny, you have all this leverage and you're just throwing out money to random studios in the most impotent way to show Steam who's boss. If you really wanna stick it to Steam, why not write a clause in the UE contracts that your game can not legally be sold on Steam? It'd be horrible for us, but a fuck of a lot cheaper and a way to flex your leverage. Read The Art of the Deal sometime.
 
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Pissmaster General said:
I really don't know of a single problem with Unreal Engine, it just seems to work well on every platform for any genre.
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no p2p by default and no interpolation on listen servers, meaning if you don't run server somewhere (= more expensive/more overhead) you have to do it yourself. and apparently comes with every ps4 devkit.
compared to 6th gen plenty of devs went back to their own engines, probably to save money and not have to deal with epic (or any 3rd party). timmy's antics probably didn't help, but epic still directly competes with other companies by making games - ask the pubg devs how they felt working with epic for improvements for their game only for epic to turn around and do their own battle royale.

Pissmaster General said:
If you really wanna stick it to Steam, why not write a clause in the UE contracts that your game can not legally be sold on Steam? It'd be horrible for us, but a fuck of a lot cheaper and a way to flex your leverage. Read The Art of the Deal sometime.
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and watch adoption plummet, unity works just as well depending on your game (and has no royalties). or keep using UE and miss out on a chunk of easy sales (and possibly lower sales due to bad PR).

Pissmaster General said:
the only games I think would really make their exclusivity worth the money are mid-tier games with dedicated fanbases, like Shenmue III, though it really put a bad taste in my mouth how they tried to force their Kickstarter backers to choke down Epic keys.
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refund the kickstarter and grab it from the bargain bin 3 months down the road. they only one got themselves to blame.
the kicker is apparently it still ends with a cliffhanger and yu suzuki wants to make at least one other game (but hey, down from 9). good luck with that.
 
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Pissmaster General said:
As for indie games, does anyone actually give a shit about Ooblets? Or even remember that?
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No one even bothered to remember their Discord handle or their Game Studio name. I've only ever seen them referred to as something like "Ooblets Dev" or "Ooblets Guy" in passing discussion, it's like no one even cares enough to google it. That's the absolute pinnacle of irrelevance: Reduction to "That guy who did that thing."
 
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