Facebook post, 27 September: Megan.

[A-№1]

If animals have "personhood," and they don't, why is my pet less a person than a dog?

It's because a dog has a much larger, more complex brain and all the more complex thoughts, emotions, intelligence, and behaviors that go with that, than your snake. That's it. Dogs have evolved greater capacity for personality, therefore greater personhood.

Because some people find it icky and gross?

Nope. See above. It's definitely not for any aesthetic reason. For the record, pigs probably actually rank higher than dogs because of their even greater intelligence and problem solving skills etc. but that doesn't stop them from being anathema to a large part of the world. And delicious to most of the rest.

Some people find gay people icky and gross, are they lesser people?

Only when they're OPL. (Yeah, yeah, I know. A-Log. Whatever.) But seriously, being gay is one of the few things about OPL that doesn't make him icky and gross.

Who are like...any of us to start putting ranks on what is a more valuable life than another?

Did I say that? It's not a judgement of value, just of relative personality. I will freely admit that my dog is less intelligent than a couple of masters candidates I could name (but not much less intelligent - I managed to teach her a variant of the Prisoner's Dilemma and those two twits have never figured it out yet). But she is also the first one I would rescue from a burning building. Hell, I might even lock the door on the way out; they really are douches.

He deliberately killed a living thing; not to eat, not to use in any fashion...but because it was "only a snake," or whatever, the intent and the effect are somehow lessened?

He claimed the snake was venomous, and even though it almost definitely wasn't, and he's surely too stupid to know the difference, and he was probably lying about it anyways in a pathetic attempt to make himself appear brave etc., it does at least give him the bad excuse of eliminating what he saw as a potential threat. I'm not saying Chris wasn't being a complete asshole coward killing a defenseless snake with a van, just that he wasn't some nefarious evil mastermind doing it either.

"We've been over this." Please. Like this silly weirdness is some sort of simple, everyday fact of life where everybody is supposed to just simply know, somehow, the arbitrarily decided upon, and I'm sure inctedibly different from person to person, hierarchy of the value of life.

Again, it's not a matter of value, but just a simple matter of fairly well and universally established measures of intelligence, behavioral complexity, and so on.

 

[XYZpdq]

I mean who wouldn't want to see a scientifically accurate virtual Chris get his ass whupped by… well… virtual everything once a week?

Virtual? Pfft. Ship him off to DPRK with a note attached for lil' Kim saying we'll send him porn comics if we get a sequel to his father's animal cruelty documentary.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I'm not saying Chris wasn't being a complete asshole coward killing a defenseless snake with a van, just that he wasn't some nefarious evil mastermind doing it either.

I've been thinking about this. If I was driving in my neighborhood and saw a rattlesnake in the road, I would probably try to run it over. There are lots of families in my neighborhood with kids and animals, including a large number of outdoor cats, and while I would much rather have the animal removed humanely, without knowing where it's burrow is it would probably be for the best to kill it before someone gets hurt.

That said, it bothers me that Chris was apparently "proud" of killing the snake. The way Emily described it almost sounded like Chris was having fun. Of course I might be reading too much into that.

 

[Ron_Swanson]

I don't think Chris killed that snake out of anything but TV's teachings of 'snakes are usually poisonous and evil!"

I think we'd know if Chris was some sort of sick animal murderer. If Chris got any pleasure out of murdering animals he'd do it a lot more often, remember he's used to instant gratification, he'd want more and more and eventually someone would catch on to it. If not the authorities then at least Marvin or some other field agent.

 

[QI 541]

Maybe Chris just enjoys having power over life and death. We know how he reacted when he thought he made someone commit suicide.

 

[An Ounce of Vagina]

I don't think Chris killed that snake out of anything but TV's teachings of 'snakes are usually poisonous and evil!"

I think we'd know if Chris was some sort of sick animal murderer. If Chris got any pleasure out of murdering animals he'd do it a lot more often, remember he's used to instant gratification, he'd want more and more and eventually someone would catch on to it. If not the authorities then at least Marvin or some other field agent.

*Has mental image of Chris trying to shoot very annoyed, very large dog with his Megatron pistol. Dog then plays maul the autistic.*

 

[Zim]

Maybe Chris just enjoys having power over life and death. We know how he reacted when he thought he made someone commit suicide.

Chris just wants power over things in general. However, it's sort of a 10 year olds view of power and mostly in the vein of "this isn't fair so I hope something bad happens to X so I feel better". He probably just went after the snake because it was scary and was causing him stress.

 

[Night Terror]

Snakes are evil in the Bible (because some animal has to take the fall). Now, Chris hasn't read the Bible properly, but any kid knows that the snake tempted Eve. He might just assume, as a result, all snakes are evil and deserve to be sent back to hell.
Or maybe he's just really stupid and thinks snakes are gross.
I love snakes anyway, so Chris gains more arsehole points in my book.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

I'm not saying Chris wasn't being a complete asshole coward killing a defenseless snake with a van, just that he wasn't some nefarious evil mastermind doing it either.

The bottom line is that Chris killed an animal for his own amusement without any other good reason.

Can we get back on topic now please?

 

[CatParty]

I'm not saying Chris wasn't being a complete asshole coward killing a defenseless snake with a van, just that he wasn't some nefarious evil mastermind doing it either.

The bottom line is that Chris killed an animal for his own amusement without any other good reason.

Can we get back on topic now please?

"I ask you, who is the real monster here?"

 

[Venusaur]

Can we get back on topic now please?

So this whole Megan resurgence made me go through the CWCki again to remember all the little details of how things had gone between Chris and Megan. I then stumbled on this article:

[cwc=Gal-Pals_and_Past_Sweethearts_(CWCipedia_page)]Gal-Pals and Past Sweethearts[/cwc]

I remembered when Chris had this up in his own wiki, there's lots of girls metioned here, but let's see what he said about Megan:

Megan Schroeder
She and I were good friends for years when I was going to the Pok'emon TCG League and the Yu-Gi-Oh Tournaments. I was hoping she and I would become Sweethearts, but I got too close; freaked her out a bit and eventually lost her. I still miss her sometimes.

So this was created in early 2010, it only took him two years (with zero contact from Megan) to completely warp his view. Pretty fast.

Also, I like Anna's entry. Tactful:

Anna McLerran
I met Anna while she was working at a PacSun in Fashion Square during my young adult years and the early days of my Sweetheart Search. She was a good and honest woman. It made me sad when much later she and her family moved to Utah. I later learned she was a Lesbian, and I do not hold that against her at all.

 

[Very Honest Content]

I remembered when Chris had this up in his own wiki, there's lots of girls metioned here, but let's see what he said about Megan:

Megan Schroeder
She and I were good friends for years when I was going to the Pok'emon TCG League and the Yu-Gi-Oh Tournaments. I was hoping she and I would become Sweethearts, but I got too close; freaked her out a bit and eventually lost her. I still miss her sometimes.

So this was created in early 2010, it only took him two years (with zero contact from Megan) to completely warp his view. Pretty fast.

If you take his timeline narrative at face value (an iffy proposition with Chris, I know), it would have to be right around the time he wrote this take on the friendship with Megan that Barb/Bob started to whisper poison into his ear about her conspiring with Snyder to get bann proclaimed on him. So either that was what started changing his mind, possibly even in response to them finding out about this on his own wiki, or they had already began to tell their son she was no good and that's why you get the, "still miss her sometimes," tag on the refreshing moment of self-realization on display there.

 

[Cwckifan]

If animals have "personhood," and they don't, why is my pet less a person than a dog?

It's because a dog has a much larger, more complex brain and all the more complex thoughts, emotions, intelligence, and behaviors that go with that, than your snake. That's it. Dogs have evolved greater capacity for personality, therefore greater personhood.

Because some people find it icky and gross?

Nope. See above. It's definitely not for any aesthetic reason. For the record, pigs probably actually rank higher than dogs because of their even greater intelligence and problem solving skills etc. but that doesn't stop them from being anathema to a large part of the world. And delicious to most of the rest.

Some people find gay people icky and gross, are they lesser people?

Only when they're OPL. (Yeah, yeah, I know. A-Log. Whatever.) But seriously, being gay is one of the few things about OPL that doesn't make him icky and gross.

Who are like...any of us to start putting ranks on what is a more valuable life than another?

Did I say that? It's not a judgement of value, just of relative personality. I will freely admit that my dog is less intelligent than a couple of masters candidates I could name (but not much less intelligent - I managed to teach her a variant of the Prisoner's Dilemma and those two twits have never figured it out yet). But she is also the first one I would rescue from a burning building. Hell, I might even lock the door on the way out; they really are douches.

He deliberately killed a living thing; not to eat, not to use in any fashion...but because it was "only a snake," or whatever, the intent and the effect are somehow lessened?

He claimed the snake was venomous, and even though it almost definitely wasn't, and he's surely too stupid to know the difference, and he was probably lying about it anyways in a pathetic attempt to make himself appear brave etc., it does at least give him the bad excuse of eliminating what he saw as a potential threat. I'm not saying Chris wasn't being a complete asshole coward killing a defenseless snake with a van, just that he wasn't some nefarious evil mastermind doing it either.

"We've been over this." Please. Like this silly weirdness is some sort of simple, everyday fact of life where everybody is supposed to just simply know, somehow, the arbitrarily decided upon, and I'm sure inctedibly different from person to person, hierarchy of the value of life.

Again, it's not a matter of value, but just a simple matter of fairly well and universally established measures of intelligence, behavioral complexity, and so on.

I'll have to disagree with you, here. Really, just because we can't yet accurately measure what we consider to be the intelligence, 'complexity', etc. of snakes (or any living thing, really) doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Moreover, even if it really is true that snakes are dumb as rocks and have no concept of things we consider important, so what? Really, what is personality but a collection of thoughts and feelings, and a will to act in accordance with the said factors? Anything on this planet more complex than a rock thinks, feels, and has a will, and thus, a personality. As such considering one thinking, feeling being with a will to be 'more of a person' than another being that thinks, feels, and has a will, seems more than a little biased

 

[LM 697]

Can we get back on topic now please?

 

[A-№1]

The bottom line is that Chris killed an animal for his own amusement without any other good reason.

But he may have had a bad reason, which is really all I'm saying. We have to consider things like that to be able to credibly assess how horrible Chris is.

I'll have to disagree with you, here. Really, just because we can't yet accurately measure what we consider to be the intelligence, 'complexity', etc. of snakes (or any living thing, really) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Did you really read what I wrote, because that's not it at all. We can objectively measure things like brain and behavioral complexity. And I never said snakes don't exhibit some complex behaviors, just less complex behavior than dogs and more complex behaviors than rocks.

Moreover, even if it really is true that snakes are dumb as rocks and have no concept of things we consider important, so what?

I specifically said that snakes are more intelligent than rocks.

I think you are making the mistake of associating value (which is entirely subjective) with relative intelligence (which really is objective and measurable). When I say that a dog is more intelligent than a snake I am saying just that, not that the dog has any greater value. Intrinsic value is a philosophical concept (or a religious one), not a scientific concept, and I ain't touching it with a 39½ foot pole.

Except to say that while Chris exhibits more complex behaviors than most snakes, the world could probably do better with more snakes and less Chris. That's an entirely subjective value judgment of mine, but I doubt anyone would disagree with it.

/offtopic

 

[CatParty]

Can we get back on topic now please?

 

[MysticMisty]

Do you suppose Chris still has anything given to him by Megan, or did he sell/throw out/burn everything at some point?

 

[Cwckifan]

I'll have to disagree with you, here. Really, just because we can't yet accurately measure what we consider to be the intelligence, 'complexity', etc. of snakes (or any living thing, really) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Did you really read what I wrote, because that's not it at all. We can objectively measure things like brain and behavioral complexity. And I never said snakes don't exhibit some complex behaviors, just less complex behavior than dogs and more complex behaviors than rocks.

I'm not going to gum up this thread with yet another drawn out clusterfuck of arguments, so I'll just leave this here: 'complex', according to who? And, 'intelligent', based on whose ideas?

Do you suppose Chris still has anything given to him by Megan, or did he sell/throw out/burn everything at some point?

Knowing Chris, he's the kind of guy who'll happily curse you, while still accepting the gifts he (of course) rightfully deserves

 

[Some JERK]

Do you suppose Chris still has anything given to him by Megan, or did he sell/throw out/burn everything at some point?

Does that house look like a place where anything gets thrown away by anyone ...ever?

 

[Mr. 0]

I remembered when Chris had this up in his own wiki, there's lots of girls metioned here, but let's see what he said about Megan:

Megan Schroeder
She and I were good friends for years when I was going to the Pok'emon TCG League and the Yu-Gi-Oh Tournaments. I was hoping she and I would become Sweethearts, but I got too close; freaked her out a bit and eventually lost her. I still miss her sometimes.

So this was created in early 2010, it only took him two years (with zero contact from Megan) to completely warp his view. Pretty fast.

If you take his timeline narrative at face value (an iffy proposition with Chris, I know), it would have to be right around the time he wrote this take on the friendship with Megan that Barb/Bob started to whisper poison into his ear about her conspiring with Snyder to get bann proclaimed on him. So either that was what started changing his mind, possibly even in response to them finding out about this on his own wiki, or they had already began to tell their son she was no good and that's why you get the, "still miss her sometimes," tag on the refreshing moment of self-realization on display there.

DId someone ask for an Alec call?
[cwc]Matthew Noble call[/cwc]